Retired NYPD detective shares insight on Bronx fatal shooting

I want to focus on this investigation because some people are saying, why haven't there been arrests? We've become so accustomed to NYPD making very fast arrests, but sometimes cases take longer. And what we think one week may seem like a long time, if you're watching this as news headlines, it's a very different thing when the investigation is actually going on. So we're trying to get some insight on that from retired NYPD detective David Sarney. And David, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it. Thank you for having me. And now you've actually trained other detectives during your career and how to do these investigations, both regular, you know, just straight crime investigations as well as homicide investigations. What are some of the questions when you heard about this and where it's at that you're asking yourself? Well, you know, and again, thanks for having me. The reality is when you talk about an investigation, especially this type of investigation, it's expansive because you're dealing with a street shooting. Because of the street shooting, you have to do sort of an extended video canvas, extended witness canvas. The unusual factor is that they came back and collected the shell casings, which is very unusual. I guarantee you they're looking into prior cases where this might have happened, or the lack of evidence recovery may be a reason why, and this may Maybe they may be a pack. patternable thing going on here with this shooting, at least as far as the shooters are concerned. The reality is we're not concerned about the motive. We're concerned about finding the shooters. And that's why we need the public's help with this. It's never just the police doing the work. It's also the public's need to help us help you find these shooters. But David, how much can the public or anybody actually even help when, you know, if they have a hood pulled up over their head, they have a face mask on, they're covering their face, you can barely see their eyes. How much help can the public be like? What kinds of things could people call the 1-800-577-TIPS line and give what kind of information might actually help investigators? Well, what we look at is a pre and post shooting. We have the incident itself. There will be a post shooting and a pre shooting. It looks like they might have waited for this individual that he was targeted. So if anyone saw these people, these individuals before the shooting, or any stores, bodegas, anyone is in the area that might have seen them prior because they may have gone there prior to bagging themselves up and covering their identities. That might be something to look at. The post event is if they go anywhere that anyone saw kids running down the street, anything that we can get and that's what it comes down to. Police always need the public's assistance when it comes to these type of cases. The evidence will come, we'll find the evidence available. We will find the shooters but it also is the assistance of the public is mandatory when you do these type of things. This is a horrific incident, this kid seems to be targeted. We don't know what the motive is and that motive may come out. Later on in the investigation, but we're just looking to get the shooters now, and that other information may be determined based on the facts that come up in this case. And then how big a canvas do detectives do in terms of a video canvas, looking for video on a building or surveillance from a store, stores outside cameras? We're talking about blocks. We have units that actually do that. You will have probably a task force that's doing this. They're doing everything again, and they go back and redo it to make sure nothing was missed. That's the one thing about these cases, especially high-profile cases. We cannot have juveniles committing crimes, shooting at 9 o'clock, 9.30 in the morning. This is a shooting in the morning, in broad daylight. And they felt they had the opportunity and could get away with it. And we have to realize. We cannot accept this. It is unacceptable in this city. It's unacceptable nationally. We cannot have it. That's why the more we expand, we will find that the shooters will be found. And hopefully we'll have the prosecution to the fullest extent when they are arrested. Now, one of the issues, and Chief Kenney had addressed it, too, he said they're looking into, was this issue that he had been bullied in the school, that there were two boys that had been suspended. Are punished in some way or face some kind of discipline action for, you know, possibly actually bullying him. And then when the NYPD asked for the records of that, the school's chancellor initially said, we're not turning those over to the NYPD. What do you think of that? Well, here's the issue we have. And we've dealt with this and I've dealt with DOE when it comes to video retrieval, video surveillance. School records, it's a litigious society, they're protecting themselves and protecting identity because everyone is innocent until proven guilty and that's the one thing they don't like to release anything without the proper paperwork such as subpoenas, even search warrants or even a warrant itself. So I understand it, we would like it to be expedited as fast as possible. If there's any schools that have video, it does take time for us to get it because we have to go through the subpoena process. It is a legal process that has been created and generated because People have sued and have been successful in their lawsuits. So the DOE is kind of protecting themselves by doing the job they're supposed to do. But they will turn it over once the subpoenas are done and we obtain the information. We work well as well as we can with the schools. It's just a matter of... Getting the information fast. That's what we want to do. So that's not, I mean, there were implications that, okay, the DOE is anti-NYPD. They're not supporting the investigation. They're not doing what's best to find the killers of this boy. But you're saying that this is kind of a routine policy where the NYPD has to, as Chief Kennedy said, will subpoena those records. That's a fairly routine legal process in an investigation like this? Yes, I know when we deal with the public or private sector, a lot of times we may just get the video just because they just give it to us because again, it's to help an investigation. When it comes to DOE, everything, they want documentation. And whether I like it personally or not, it doesn't matter. It's what we need to get done. That's just how it is now in the way the city and the state works. You have to have paperwork to cover everything. What about the possibility of gang involvement? Because that area in the Bronx has had those issues in the past. That was one of the theories that had been advanced early on, mentioned. Of course, there's no proof at this particular point. But what is your take on that? Because the Bronx has had a lot of problems with that recently. Well, that's a fact, and I think that's part of what we look at as motive. We'll figure that out. That's why it's so important to know that unusual thing of picking up shell casings. They've probably compared shootings in the past with this shooting. Is it similar to anything else? We don't know the gang affiliation. We don't know anything about gangs. That'll come out when the investigation comes through. And I think that's what's important. We don't wanna pigeonhole it or create a bias. I am saying this is gang related or this is this is really let's find the shooters and that'll come out in the facts and totality circumstances when it comes to this, this, this investigation. But then when you talk about it, as Chief Kenny did in a press briefing a couple of days ago, he said that the shooters actually cleaned up the scene, but they left his backpack, which was stolen by somebody else, apparently, according to the NYPD. But does that show, what does that tell you that? That maybe this isn't the first time they've done it or they saw a movie or what kind of possibilities in your mind as an investigator arise when you hear that? Well, think about this. At 9:30 in the morning, this kid was targeted. That's what it seems to be. So they have maybe done this in the past. It is an unusual factor. I mean, I have not ever gone back to a case and we've seen them go back and pick up shell casings, especially in a daylight type shooting. So they feel they can get away with it and do that. We'll figure that out. I don't want to, again, you don't speculate what's going on, but that's something that's come into the case as to why do we have, is there any other shootings similar to this? Because that's not what normal, that's what a first time shooter would do, is go back and pick up the shell casings. It's something I haven't seen when it comes to juveniles. They're not that privy to doing that. So does that say something? It does. And that's why Everything is looked at. We don't want to, again, speculate, but we see that there's, is this something that's happened in the past where we've had, we've had a shooting and shell casings were not recovered. And does a botched robbery, you know, a robbery gone bad, does that seem to be, is that a plausible theory of a 15-year-old? Well, anything's plausible, anything's possible. But given the fact of the way that shooting took place, it looks like they did not get close to him enough to do a robbery. That backpack was left on scene and then stolen by a passerby, which is even more shocking. So I don't know in that case, you rule it out based on the evidence you have. Did the victim have any property that was removed from him? It doesn't seem to appear to be that way from what I'm understanding. The backpack was on scene until it was stolen. It looks like he's shooting where they look to find this kid and shoot him and do it in a caliber. I mean, this seems very targeted because, you know, you don't get three kids going out and shooting somebody at 9:30 in the morning unless they know or have an idea of where they're going to go shoot. So we think, you know, that's why the pre-shoot is very important to investigate. Was there anyone around that area around the time prior to the shooting? Oh, exactly. And then and then did they see them? Did they come out of a subway maybe nearby? That type of thing. But but what about the gang initiation theory as well? This is something else that people that the streets have been talking about. What's your take on that? Again, you speculate because once you pigeonhole it, you start looking that way. You look at the gang relation. We don't know. That's why I feel for the father. I empathize. It's horrible to have. But I'm not concerned about if there's an affiliation or anything or a gang initiation. It'll come out in the investigation. That's why sometimes we never get to know the motive or the why. It should come out when this investigation is finalized, when the arrests are made, and they'll determine it from that. Because there are times we don't have, we have no known motive. And that's the thing. We're not concerned about the motive right now. I was never concerned about motive until I determined until I made the arrest. And then maybe I got to the idea of what the motive was. And what do you think about the age? You know, the eight we saw recently, the 12 year old girl was shot. There was an arrest with that. That was made of that particular shooter in the Bronx. But the age of the victims and the age of the actual, what the NYPD calls the trigger pullers, they say has been going down dramatically over the last five or so years. What do you make of that, the youth of some of the people that are both the victims and the perpetrators? Yeah, we've seen this and this is an indicator. You know, you talk about crime being down in numbers. It's always about the stats and all this. I'm not concerned about the stats because a victim doesn't concern themselves with the stats. What we see, though, is a rise in youth violence. There is an issue. There is a nexus to whatever is going on with juveniles and thinking that it's okay to go out in the street at 9:30 in the morning and shoot a kid. And actually, it's like an assassination. So what are we doing? And this is why when When I talk about DOE. There's gotta be something dealing with these kids anymore. You don't want them involved in the criminal justice system and taking the family court, but what are they getting out of that? Family courts be a diversion. I don't know if these kids have been arrested before, but if they have been, what was the diversion to stop them from doing this again? What is family court doing when they get into the system? What is DOE doing to avoid the situations? Is there resiliency training teaching these kids how to deal with resolutions or anger issues when we're losing that? I taught school as a high school teacher for years, Prior to becoming a detective, and I taught, while I was a detective, I teach at John Jay now. There's got to be something. Students in the college even say they don't get enough in school to be better at what, to deal with stress, to deal with all the situations. That has to be addressed. And that's paramount to anything else. But that might alleviate or eliminate the type of violence we're seeing with kids now. No, absolutely. And it's so sad that kids are afraid to go to school. I mean, what are we doing? You have to take your life into your hands just to go to class and get an education and graduate. But what about, let me come back to something that was very basic that we didn't really dive into. He shot in the back and he shot twice in the back from, I don't know what kind of distance, but does that tell you anything or does that raise certain questions that you would like to have answered. The victim might have seen the shooters as they were coming up to and approaching him. They might have recognized each other, whatever. Who knows what was said, cuz the video doesn't have any audio. Right. But that's something that's hopefully come out of the investigation. People haven't heard or saw anything prior to. That's the thing, being shot in the back, he was fleeing from there. So obviously, there's some sort of connection to the victim knowing of the shooters coming at them or the shooters saying something to the victim where he ran away from those people. And then in terms of the length of time that people are, oh, it's already been a week. But in reality, there have been a lot of investigations that have taken much longer than that before they can get resolved, especially when you have that kind of barrier of under maybe underage kids being involved. And they're the ones that you have to talk to as witnesses and to try to get information from and navigating the legalities of all of that. But what do you think about the time frame on this? And we've seen issues about Seattle, the bite of Seattle shooting that still has not, they've had one shooter arrested, not the second shooter. It takes time, and especially to do with juveniles, because family court is way different than dealing, juvenile laws are way different than dealing with adults. And that's the thing we have to be concerned about, because we want to make sure that this case can be prosecuted by the evidence that we have, and we have to kind of tread lightly. Whether we like to or not, because if juveniles are involved, we've got to prepare for that when we go into that arrest and that trial process to make sure that everything is done properly because when it comes to juveniles. They are treated way differently than they are when it comes to the family adults. And that's the thing about the age is another issue, which we'll leave off to the side on that. Yeah, we'll do it. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about that with you at an at an at another time. The impact that that has had on the criminal justice system and especially the. These younger and younger kids getting involved in criminal activity, kind of the reversal of what the original intention was, it seems. But I want to thank you very much for being with us. David Sarney is a retired NYPD detective, a professor at John Jay College, very seasoned and experienced investigator, had taught other detectives. In the NYPD and homicide and crime fighting, many other areas as well. Thank you so much for giving us your time and your insight into this so we can understand it a little bit better because it's just so disturbing and so very, very sad. Thank you, David. We appreciate it.