Voice of the Quakes Ted Ramey on 1996 MLS Origins, Match Prep, Youth Soccer & American Fandom

Welcome to Offside in the Bay. I'm Claudine Wong, journalist and news anchor. And I'm Alex Lobham, former professional player, coach, and lifelong fan. And this is a podcast about soccer. Everything from the World Cup to youth soccer and recruiting. We're also going to have one-on-ones with players and coaches and the movers and shakers in the soccer world. This is Offside in the Bay, to the pitch and beyond. And here we are. We're back. We have a new guest today. Our guest today is literally grown up with San Jose soccer. Ted Ramey is a longtime sports broadcaster and the voice of the San Jose Earthquakes. His father, Hal Ramey, was also the voice of the Quakes dating back to when the NASL days. Ted was just 13 when he attended the very first MLS game in 1996 at Spartan Stadium, watching none other than Eric Wijnaldum score that historic first goal. From growing up around the game to calling it professionally, Ted has had a front row seat to the evolution of American soccer. Welcome to Offside in the Bay, Mr. Ted Ramey. Thank you for having me. Excited to talk to you. Hello, sir. Hello. All right. Well, there's so much to talk about, I think. And as a front row seat person. You know, let's get into all that, but let's kind of start first with growing up with soccer, growing up with the Quakes, really, in a world where soccer wasn't. Right. I mean, I think that's fair to say, right. You were, you were like, people were like, what sport is this? And yeah, I mean, I always talk to my kids. Now I've got a 13 year old and almost 11 year old and they watch EPL La Liga champions league, everything. And I'm like, guys, you understand. I was lucky if we got the national team games and so they see it all. And I always use that as the point of reference, but I go back to growing up, my story can never be told without my dad, who's like you alluded to, is the voice of the Quakes back in the NASL days. And then again, when MLS started up with the San Jose Clash, who turned in the Earthquakes, obviously, but he didn't have to do that first game because it was nationally televised. And so he said, I'm going to take my two boys. We're going to go sit in the games. And that's how my dad got both me and my brother into broadcasting, taking us to all of his games. But yeah, I mean, he would tell us all these stories about the NASL days and he'd be out on the road and he got to see Pele and, you know, Bestie and all these incredible names that were part of the NASL back in the day. And he, even though he was a more traditional like baseball fan, because he was born in 46 and he was baseball, football, basketball were his primary sports as well as golf. He jumped at the opportunity to do the earthquakes and loved it. fondest memories, I think, because he had the most access with the athletes were always about soccer and the earthquakes. But then the world cup comes in 1994. That's one of the biggest events ever. And the way it took over the Bay area, especially with the Brazilians being here, um, that really had an impact, but most importantly, it led to the creation of major league soccer. And so my dad got back into it and then we're at that first game. And then he switches off taking me and my brother to games, to broadcast and such. And that was the norm. I had been filled with all these stories of a time I never knew in the NASL before I was born or, you know, it ended when I was two years old in 1984 when the league folded. But now there was this new thing. And for me, because I had always been around my dad's sports and such, the Quakes became just as valid, or excuse me, the Clash became just as valid as the 49ers or the A's or the Warriors and everything else that he took us to. Because it was like, hey, this is a professional sport, my dad's calling it, this is a big deal. And I could tell that my friends in Walnut Creek didn't quite have the same view of it, but it was like at school after the first game, they gave out these shirts, and I saw a couple other people, I was like, hey, you were there. So you identified the soccer fans very quickly. What were the attendances like back then? I mean, pretty early on, they were at capacity for Spartan, because the reason they chose Spartan Stadium and San Jose for the first... game was because they had the best attendance and they viewed San Jose and Silicon Valley as the number one market. Um, and so they were close to being sellouts at most of those early games. So that was a big part of it. Um, I don't remember off the top of my head, the capacity crowd for Spartan stadium. I'm only thinking of the new number, which is now half as many cause they don't have the far side stands the same way. Um, but they, they drew well, um, as it got later into the league, they started to see the The crowds dwindle a little bit in like probably like 98, 99. But early on when I went to those games, I remember really good crowds and really good attendance. And I also, this is the thing, a 13-year-old me at the time was keenly aware of this. It was like... Wow. This is really diverse. Like everybody. And I know that's San Jose in the Bay area, but you looked around and you saw like, this is the melting pot. And that was immediately evident to me as a 13 year old, which is not something you're usually thinking about, but it was cool. Cause it was like, Oh, this, cause you hear it as the world's game. Sure. And then you see it in that capacity, but did you play? I, okay. So here's my funny story. I played when I was really young. But when I was really young, I wasn't fast. I wasn't a good runner. And I will juxtapose with that with the statement of my best sport ended up being track and field. I was a sprinter. So I was not fast when I was young. It just kind of, it never appealed to me. I was like, I wasn't a good runner. And so I was got more into like basketball and baseball and football. And eventually it was just kind of football and track and field because I hit fifth grade. I started to get taller. Hormones started to kick in and I went from being not the slowest, but the fastest kid. So in retrospect, it's like if I had, had that speed younger, I'm sure they would have been like, yeah, you'll play fullback or you'll be a winger. So, but I was always around it, but I didn't have the same playing love for it. Although as I got later in high school, I was like, I probably should have done that. Like I should have played soccer as well. What's interesting is it sounds like, I mean, your dad was a lover of sports, a fan of sports, all sports and soccer just kind of, kind of. added to that collection of of sports and it sounds like it was the same for you you you played other sports you liked other sports soccer is just part of the story I mean for people who watch the Sharks they know they know you like hockey you know too and and so what is it about soccer I think though that that drew and and the calling of a soccer game that is different than these other sports. Soccer is unique in that it is a sport of failure. I always tell people who like baseball, you might like it because it's not often about what does happen. It's about what doesn't happen. Like football and basketball are sports of success. You see Steph Curry make 10 three-pointers. You'll see, you know, who has Brock Purdy. He'll get, you know, however many completions, four touchdown passes, and it kind of builds up to it. Whereas soccer is so much. of this back and forth and this slow build and slow burn and you can see The goal is coming because you'll see the big momentum shifts and you'll see it go from one direction to the other. And as that intensity builds for me as a broadcaster, it's like I'm trying to match that. And I always tell people, and I know this sounds really cheesy, but it's game day for me as well. Like I prepare, I study, I learn about these players. I watch film. I watch what the tactics of the opposition are. And this is my chance to perform. And even though I'm not an athlete anymore, like we were talking, I said, I lift weights, you know, that's I'm the gym bro I have that opportunity to perform in a sports capacity and for play-by-play that's as close as you can get to being a part of it. And then also, and like I say, I get into cheesy stuff. Like I distinctly feel like soccer chose me. Like when the earthquakes came to me and had me try out and then offered it to me, I took that very seriously. It was like, all right, like this is a huge opportunity. I've been brought into this world and now I have to give it my all because I understand it's part of building the sport. It's not just. It's not the NFL. I'm not just calling a game. It's like you're part of the culture now. You're part of that greater soccer family. So when you're called upon to do that, you've got to do it as well as anybody in any sport. What does that preparation look like? You talked about doing preparation for the players. What level of research do you do? How do you break that down? Do you not write it down? So do you remember doing the table of elements? So flashcards. I make my game boards on mailing labels, little two-by-four like you would put on a thing, and I do that. I type it all up. I've had people look at it. They're like, where do you get these? I get it. Yeah, this is it. I do this. I type these out. So I go to the websites. It's an app for that. Yeah, I was like, yeah, that's what there should be. But I go in and I look at everything and I break down. I mean, there's always the basic stuff, the player's number, their name, pronunciation, height, age, wage, where they come from, how they came to the team, what they've done previously in their career. But then I'm also going back and looking at other things on Wikipedia. I'm looking at what they've done in the recent years. Then I'll build it out and I'll be like, okay, Wondolowski, number eight. Memorize that then put the next bit of information back and forth and I don't assume that it'll all stay with me like a test Sure, but I put it on the important things on notes and stuff in front of me And usually it's like I'll glance at it and it'll jog van back Oh, and I have this frame of reference, but that's in conjunction with film for every team that we play I try to watch their last three games and And... Go over everything know the big plays. That's a lot of players, right? You must be what 36 40 players a game it's you I mean you can They have 20 on the game day rosters and you look and see who's loaned out and who's been used. So you can try and whittle it down a little bit. And I'll usually talk to other guys and figure out like, okay, who's likely not to be on the game day roster. So I've learned in efficiency of it over the years, but there is a lot of prep, but I enjoy it. You know, it's like I said, I have a fan bike at home and I put my iPad there and I do this and I watch it and I started to take note. I see whether they're building out of the back or playing long. It's, it's a sickness. Yes. It's a good one that we all benefit from. I'm curious because, you know, Alex obviously grew up playing, was around everyone playing, had so many different levels of soccer IQ it builds when you become a pro, right? And that you get to that space, you know, and we talked about like parents who are watching youth soccer who... I kind of understand the basics of the game. There's also like a TikTok trend of wives who are calling a game for their spouses with their backs to the TV and seeing if they're like, what is happening? Is that happening? And it is because the nuances of the game. Your kids, you said, watch now. Who are their teams? I mean, the Quakes, first and foremost, but they, FC Barcelona, PSG, they follow those. They also like the national teams. My son just turned 13. My elder son, Eli, just turned 13 on the 28th. He wanted the Luka Modric Croatia kit. And so, which, by the way, soccer kits, of which my kids want every single one, not the most inexpensive purchase you can make. They are not. Especially if you want the name. Yes, that's very difficult. But I wonder because... They're going to watch, and every coach I've ever heard, they're like, if you want to get better at soccer, you watch the game, right? But playing the game helps. How hard was it to nuance a game in terms of where Bruce Arena's head is when he's playing his players, and when you're calling the game and you're saying what... Maybe they are doing what they should be doing, what they're expected to do. It's a lot of different levels of soccer IQ. Yeah, I mean, I had to learn a lot because I always watched the game, but there's a difference when you don't play it. And, you know, I played basketball, you know, up until almost high school. I played football in high school briefly before I decided I didn't want to get hurt for track. And like, you get an understanding of things. So I had to listen intently to everything Joe Cannon, my color commentator, for all 13 years I've been doing it, was saying. But I would literally, I would go and look at our formation. I would go home and I would Google and I would look at things. I'd be like, okay, what am I watching in a 4-4-2? Tell me about the responsibilities. And I would go and I would find there was lectures online. There were things that I would read about. Say if they were setting up your midfielders in a double pivot and I would learn about what the cues were. So it was a lot of research. I had to learn things more. And when they asked me, they said, how deep is your knowledge? I was like, I understand the game. I was like, but not to the depth of which I would like. But I said I was going to learn about it. I was going to do everything I could. And I took that very seriously. So I started to listen to Joe. He was my guy right there next to me in the booth. So it wasn't just tune out until he finished talking. It was like, listen, Ted. Listen to everything that he just said. Go back and watch broadcasts. Really get deep on what the color commentator was saying. But I also juxtaposed that with my learning of hockey because I grew up in Walnut Creek. There weren't rinks around. I was nine when the Sharks started. So I had to. learn the game. I would listen to what Drew Emenda would say. I would listen to what Pete Stemkowski would say on the radio broadcast, and I would learn about the various responsibilities. And so I think I had that mindset a little bit. Plus, I grew up with a sports broadcaster. That's a little bit of a cheat code to where I think I was raised with a different viewpoint of how to watch sports and how to look at things. And so when you're around sports and you learn about learning, I would see my dad prep for things. I would see how he would work for broadcasts. I had that. inside track of understanding. You had a coach. Yeah, exactly. And there was also the osmosis. I would go to him with broadcasts for all sports and I'd be right next to him. And even if I wasn't trying to learn, it was happening in real time because my brother will say verbatim almost the exact same thing. Yeah. Well, and every game and every match you watch, the knowledge grows, right? The database is building in real time. Yeah. You know, which is great. So as you've watched the evolution of people and the fan base growing, it's grown. We can say that. Compare the San Jose when it was just starting, when you were just getting introduced to it, to what it is now and what it can be. So I always look at this as in the sense of. I did not have a soccer team when I was 10 years old. My kids grew up with that being the norm, as well as watching the EPL, La Liga, Champions League, everything on streaming. Access is great. And just as the same way as, you know, the Sharks didn't exist until I was nine years old. Whereas for my kids, that's just the norm. Previous generations, there's a reason the 49ers, the Giants and the Warriors are the dominant teams because they've been here the longest. And so we're getting on second and third generation Sharks and Earthquakes fans now to where It takes time, but you need that multi-generational fandom. For a lot of people, they grew up going to 49ers or Giants, previously the A's, and it took time. Warriors as well. And now you're starting to see that happen with the fan base as it exists for the San Jose Earthquakes, but it takes time. I mean, no one wants to hear that, but that's literally what it happens because it becomes the family norm to watch the games together, to go to the games together. To maybe take a road trip occasionally together. And Major League Soccer is younger than me. I was 13 when it started, and I'm 44 now. I don't think I'm quote-unquote old. But compared to the NFL and the NBA and Major League Baseball, this is an extremely young league. I tell the same thing to people who are looking at NWSL or the WNBA and the success that they've had. I'm like... Yeah, it takes time. Yeah, it does get passed through the generations. You look in England, the teams have been going since the early 1900s, late 1800s. That's a long, long time. And these teams and who you follow get passed down. It tends to be the team your father followed or the team that's most local to you. So now you've got in the Bay Area, having a local team that's here in a great stadium. Start to follow them more. I always compare it to SEC football. Like it's that geographic, like if you grew up an Alabama fan, that's who you're a fan. If you grew up Auburn, you grew up Georgia. And we're talking, like you said, like going back over a century. And that hasn't existed for the United States and soccer fandom. And it's great that Major League Soccer has stuck around, but it is going to be a slow build. And it's also the reality. There's a lot of people who are fans of EPL or La Liga and these stars because the best talents Aren't yet in major league soccer. We're in there. At the prime of their career. Now, Messi is still one of the best players in the world. He proved that at the World Cup. Yes. And I remember when people would say, oh, he's making these MLS defenders look bad. I'd be like, well, who doesn't he make look bad? Like, I saw the exact same plays, you know, happen, whether he was, you know, playing in Spain, whether he was at PSG, whether he was at the Argentinian national team. Like, he tends to do that to everyone. It doesn't matter who he plays against. It really doesn't matter, yes. And I think, but that is the difference, right? Though that his name is even attached to... MLS and the other players who are now coming over and considering it. I think that's another level. We kind of talk about here, like, where does the MLS sit in the soccer ecosystem? It's not the big five in Europe. Yeah. But should it be? Like, or will it be? Like, is that the goal? That is the goal, I think. And that's why they're switching the calendar to match the Euro calendar. I mean, some people say, oh, maybe it should just be, I don't want to say. I'm picking my words. You know, there are different places of where your path is and where you end up, where you want to be, or where you come back. Like right now, great players like Messi are coming here after. Yeah, the Retirement League is the tournament. That'll be the next step. It's trying to get those top players in their prime. To come here, like whether it's a starting point. So that's the other question. It could be a starting point that they come here and as they excel over, they go over there. Or I think the goal is for... Really, MLS fans, it's the same. You can pick. It's the big six, right? Like, you pick, but that seems a ways off. Well, to an extent, with some of the young South American players, they have done that. Like, Miguel Almiron came up through the Atlanta team, and he's Uruguayan, I believe, came up, played for Atlanta, then went over to Newcastle United for a few years. He was good, then came back to Major League Soccer. So you've seen that pathway a little bit, but eventually it comes down to money. And that is the, that's the American. A sentiment that we worship above all else. We worship the dollar. Well, the best players will follow the dollar. You look at the league in Saudi Arabia, that's attracting some of the top players in their prime. So there's no reason why the MLS can't do it. It's just how are they going to fund that? But the live audiences are doing really, really well. The television is growing. So there's no reason why they couldn't. I think the World Cup also proved to the holders of the money that there is money to be made. Oh, yeah. You know, and I don't know if anyone could have predicted how well it did here in terms of like it didn't matter if it was a city in the middle of the country or a highly populated tourist city. I mean if you take the Bay Area it was San Jose which I think you could you would successfully argue that when people tourists from out of the area come they're coming to see San Francisco sites and they everyone was down in San Jose that entire time because that's where the best watch party was right. You can argue for those businesses who didn't expect it to be so bountiful on non... Match days where Levi's was holding it, that everyone kind of was like, huh. Maybe we're onto something here. It was eye-opening. I think the women's game has done a lot of that as well because they've been so successful as opposed to the men's team. And there was difference. Title IX and the way that we funded women's sports in the United States had a huge impact on that. But now the rest of the world is catching up. Spain, obviously, the way they've been an incredible team and just really shown on both the men's and women's sides that they've unlocked soccer at a level that I don't think we really thought was possible. But to see... The way that the World Cup was also presented, and I'm not here to just hoover Fox and such, but they did a really good job presenting it because at a time of heightened political sensibilities, it was kind of an antidote to all the seriousness that was the day-to-day. So it was like, boy, this is nice to just look at everybody getting along and represent, yeah, representing countries, diversity. It was all coming together. I got to do one of the watch parties at San Pedro. For the United States and Bosnia-Herzegovina game. And I was looking out at the end. I was like, you had people of every creed, every nation, all partying, waving the U.S. flag. I was like, this is it. I was like, this is what the United States is supposed to represent. And I think that you can tap more into that because there's a reason why baseball is doing the World Baseball Classic, why hockey is bringing back the World Cup of Hockey. They did the Four Nations because soccer has shown everybody they want to have low-stakes international competition. And that's how you get hooked. They hook you on the good stuff. And then you get the sickness and then you're watching every day as the giants fans, when they had their run, a lot of people got brought in by those runs and then they became every game watchers. And so you watch the world cup and then you're like, okay, what's my local team that I can root for that might produce players like Nico Chikuris right now, who's going to be a part of the United States men's national team of the future, or whether it's a player like Yosemite Buddha, who represents Burkina Faso. I mean, those are, you start making these connections. Have you seen the crowds go up since post-World Cup at the Earthquakes? Have you seen numbers climb as it resulted in an increase? For some games, but I actually think MLS across the board saw a little bit of a letdown attendance-wise because I think people spent their entertainment budget. I mean, I looked at some of the prices for World Cup games. I was like, that's... A lot of, I mean, that's like a lot of money. That's a lot of, that's a lot of cash. And for a lot of people, that's going to be their summer expenditure. And I, I respect them for spending that money and going to the games. But I think there was a little bit of a dip because people were like, sorry, kids, we, we spent. And I wonder if there's something more that can be done. I mean, if you take a look at the Valkyries, right? Second season, they sell it every single game. They are doing something correct. They're winning, which always helps. Yeah. That always helps. But certainly the environment and, you know, someone was like, oh, are you a Valkyries bandwagon fan? I'm like, I think everybody is because they haven't been here. I'm like, just because you bought a sweatshirt in the first game, you know, like this is second season. Thank Could the MLS be doing more given this energy to say maybe it's cheaper to get in? you Maybe it's for the greater good of all of it. I mean, each individual team is obviously trying to do some stuff. for I just would put that with the sense that basketball is more the cultural norm than soccer. listening. Yes, it is. And I think that's why it has, like, Caitlin Clark was such a phenomenon because everyone saw that and it was like, oh, okay. But women's basketball has struggled to get the fan base. And the finals this time around with the whole... You know, arenas and where they're going to play. Is an example of it's still bumpy. No, I can't. The whole situation with Atlanta and the arena. I'm like, really? We didn't plan for this, guys. We didn't figure this out. But in this market, I do think there was such an appetite for women's sports in particular, which is one of the reasons why it's been so successful. And it's funny for me who grew up as a fan of the 99 team watching Mia Hamm and Brandi Chastain. My dad did play by play for those early women's soccer league games. I would go to those and I was stunned that they weren't sold out. I was like, what's going on here? Well, that league started, I was just turning 17, 18 years old. So I would go and I'd be like, why are these not sold out? And like, it takes time in some senses. But like right now with the way that social media works, if that existed back then, I think WUSA would have taken off a little bit better. And I think for the Valkyries being in San Francisco, having the fan base that was ready to have more basketball love, because the Warriors probably brought a lot of new basketball fans in. And so I think that you have a more culturally normalized sport. Which helps as well. People understand basketball more than they understand soccer. And also, ESPN in particular has done a really good job of making the collegiate game a lot more popular. So you have a little bit more familiarity with those fans coming in, or with the players and the fans coming into the WNBA. There's a little bit more name recognition. Whereas with soccer, there's so many leagues, so many teams, so many players coming from everywhere. It's a little bit daunting. There's a lot more to learn. If you're trying to start learning, it's... It's overwhelming, and I saw, like, one of my favorite TikToks, actually, was a guy who put all the teams. He's like, if you're trying to pick a team now, he put them in, like, these are the men. These are how you describe them as men that you were trying to date, and you've got to figure out who you're going to date. You're the one that disappoints you, the one that's always positive. It was. Hilarious and probably pretty spot on from the reputations of each one of these teams. It was great, but it really went down to that basic of you're not going to know everyone on these teams and you're not going to, but you want to cheer. You want to have a team that you can start that process with so that you eventually become the person who does know all the players and the history and the, you know, whatever to really. Attach you deeply to it. I think to your point, though, and your kids, it does start young, which do you see my transition to youth soccer now? Yes, there you go. I'm going. What do you think of youth soccer? You didn't embrace it. necessarily but your kids they love it they do ayso they absolutely love it they have this is what's terrible is so many of their games i have to miss because i have earthquakes broadcast the same day like they both have two games on saturday and because the earthquakes are a 2 p.m start i'm not going to go to either one but i love it i think it's great in that sense i think that a lot of the competitive and club aspects of it are insanity um i think i i don't i say that Being very, very careful in the sense that I'm not criticizing it, but I think it's a lot to throw at a lot of kids because you're essentially. Looking at the end game of like, oh, my child could be a professional athlete. My child needs these steps in the right direction. And far too often, it's being turned into a job at way too young an age. And And I've talked to athletes in multiple sports. It's not just soccer. It's not just hockey. It's also baseball. It's basketball. And I've said to athletes, like, my parents used to take me to practice and drop me off and pick me up. And these are people who are now coaching. They say, I get texts during practice of why we're doing things a certain way. He's like, and I can see the burnout happening in 10, 11, and 12-year-olds. Yeah, I've seen it now transitioning from being a coach, as a professional coach, and now I'm a parent who's now coaching a kid. I can't believe how many games, my kids played like eight games in the last... Two weekends, eight games, and there's four every weekend, back-to-back weekends, and they're like, it's on an under-eight team. You're thinking, it's a lot of games. You start to see, I wonder, it all seemed very compact, I think. I think there is a little bit of a chance of burnout if they don't stretch out the schedule and maybe less games, or it seems too many. And I also think they decide so early if kids are good. To your point, you became fast. Yeah. But you weren't necessarily fast at that moment. It is normal. to maybe not hit your stride in literally in in anything at that age like you may have these awkward years we all have them they usually happen in middle school or that area you know but like People grow differently, but it's so intense. And they're so like, is this person the prodigy? Is this person the prodigy? Is this person the... It's very strange. And I understand that people always want to get down to the pay-to-play model. But I think a lot of that is parents as well. And there's a competition of like, well, if your kid's doing it and you believe that's the best opportunity for your kid, then I need to be doing that for my kid as well. And it's like, does your kid specifically want to be doing that? Like, I always find that when you talk to professional athletes... It's like you can't tear him away from the pitch. You can't get him off the rank or the court or the field. I remember they told this story about Logan Gauture when he had his premature retirement because he had an injury and he had to retire early from the Sharks. But the story was, Mom, did you know Logan's not going to prom or homecoming or something in Canada? And the mom said, well, yeah, of course, Logan can't take his stick. And it's like that you can't like he couldn't separate himself. Like, of course, he's got to be a rink rat, as they call him. But just with kids and with sports like you won't. Soccer is really weird in the sense that there's almost a mysticism and a telepathy that you need to develop it. And I've even heard Steve Kerr talk about why he loves working with European players. He says because they play soccer oftentimes and they understand the passing game because they have the vision of being able to look everywhere all at once. And that's hard not to be a world-class athlete if you're not doing it consistently at such a young age. But I think a lot of kids are doing so much to where they do get burned out, where they don't have the love. And that's what I'm talking about. The insanity is like everyone thinks that they're going to be that next prodigy, that they just need a little bit more time on the pitch or the ice or the diamond or the rink or whatever it is. And we can talk about all sports about this. And this is what I get into with an American identity is we think that we can conquer everything like East Europe used to dominate gymnastics and ice skating. And then we became dominant in that field, but also what costs, like if you look at the stories with the United States gymnastics teams on the women's side, there was a book that came out in the nineties, something little girls in pretty boxes that talked about all the just craziness that went on behind the scenes and, you know, not eating and all that stuff is like, as Americans, we think we can conquer everything with hard work. and discipline and repetition and turn it into like a factory you know but like soccer in and of itself is very very unique because when I watch Messi when I watch Ronaldo it's like that's not just a person who decided they were going to practice more it's like they have This doesn't make any sense, but it's like, there's a cultural and DNA architect that existed there that doesn't exist the same way elsewhere. Like, it's not like Steph Curry is being produced everywhere. Like, that's in a distinctly American athlete. Like, that happens because he grew up in a culture where it was normalized. You see kids walk around with basketballs. That's the norm. If you went to Brazil, you would see kids walk around with footballs. They'd be dribbling. They'd be juggling. They go to school with a ball tucked under their arm. Here, they dribble the basketball to school. That's the norm. Like that, you can't beat that yet. This is what I come back to the time argument. Like it takes time. And so you get into this mindset that everything can be overcome, but it's like, even though we're producing some great footballers right now, Christian Pulisic, despite his injury history, is a great player. Freeman is now turning a great player. Flo Balogun, like we can go down the list. These are great players, but they're not superstars yet. And it has to be more normalized in the American culture Because you need that. Training from the young age to where it is normalized, to where it is more that cultural norm. And it's just, it all kind of piles upon itself. I like to say that the U.S. likes to be the underdog and dominant. Yes. At the same time, they're like, we, they love, Americans love underdog status and we love also just taking everything, you know, taking everything home. I think given that though, I don't know, I mean, because I would say when we have international guests here who played abroad or wherever they played there's less of a there's less of a sympathy for the overworking would you agree what you mean like in terms of like this idea that there's a burnout like we've had a couple guests they're like what burnout yeah what is but what is burnout like quit whining like if you love the game you're gonna be good at games up stop there's no burnout if you love the game right there is like a which I find interesting because My inclination is I'm like, oh, that's too much. You know, give them a second to breathe. But in Europe, if you're good, they take you and you go to an academy. Sometimes you live there, right? Or Brazil. You just go and you go do more and they're excellent. I would say, I think in America though, I think kids do absorb the arguments of knowing how much it's costing their parents and knowing these weekend trips and all these things. I think that is a little bit absorbed by the kids and they start to feel pressure in a, in a different way. Maybe that exists that is part of that uniquely American pressure. I like, I say this with a grain of salt, but like, I think that eventually American will be a dominant power. But I just wonder at what cost along the way, like how many... Well, I think the difference with the burnout is more who's doing the pushing. Is it internally the player, the athlete wants to go keep doing it, wants to practice when they're not practicing? Or is it, I think what you're talking about is like, the parents pushing you to sign up for these programs, kicking you out the door to go into practice when the child doesn't necessarily keep enjoying it. You've got to keep checking in with those kids to see if they really truly love it. Then there's no burnout if you love it. I don't think you really enjoy it. Sometimes you need a break as well. You need a break. That's why it's good to do other sports as well. Take a break from soccer, do a basketball for a little while or mix it up. Because then when you come back to it, you're a bit more hungry. It's probably injury prevention too. But I always think about high school soccer is that it's so much less intense usually for those kids because the… abilities are so varied that coaches can't really they can't really like okay let's try to play as best as we can together because we just came together a week ago and now we have a game every other day and so it takes out some of that pressure to be that Yeah, but that's that's the part with all the academy systems taking over from the pathway of going to high school to college. Like Chris Wondolowski is the ultimate example of a late bloomer. He had his breakout with the Quakes, you know, by 2009, 2010. He's 26, 27 years old at that point. That's not usually how it works. And then suddenly he's on the national team and, you know, playing in World Cups and such. A lot of kids now, it's almost like if you're not on the national team or on an MLS team by the time you're 16, 17, you may have missed your opportunity, even though players are still coming out of the collegiate system. But this is where it gets a little bit different because football, you can join it, you can start playing at like 19, 20 and you can be a professional. Like there are stories of guys like, oh, I played basketball and then I started playing football in junior college and then I made it in there. Like that doesn't happen with soccer. That's the difference is because there is. a mysticism and a cerebral awareness and a skill level and an understanding of everything that happens out there that you it's soccer is not the one that although they are incredible athletes and I hate the argument when people say, oh, if America's best athletes, I'm like, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I was like, these are the best soccer players like bar none. I was like, but. Because so much of that learning happens at a young age, you can't just adopt it late like you could with a football, like you could with some other sports. You need to be raised in that environment. And I would just touch on the athlete argument because people said it so much during the summer and I was getting into Twitter wars. I'm very good friends with Marvell Wynn II, who played for the Earthquakes and played for the national team and played for us as Olympians and had to retire early due to a heart condition. Um, but he, in high school, before he went to UCLA and was eventually drafted, uh, first overall in MLS, when he was 17, he ran a 10, three, 100 meters. He was a, could have been a world class sprinter. His dad was Marvell when the first played for the Padres played for the Cardinals and incredible athlete. And he has a lineage and it's like, you're going to tell him he's not a world-class athlete. Like I'm pretty sure he could played anything or like, you're going to tell Freeman, whose dad was an NFL player and chose soccer. You're going to tell him he couldn't have been a world-class athlete and something else he chose? I think it's an absurd argument because people, athletes tend to play the sport they're best at. Well, yeah, they put it up. People talk about LeBron or whatever. He's 6'8", 6'9". There's not many 6'9 soccer players I can think of. It'd be a tough transition for him. Yeah. Yeah, Ibrahimovic, 6'5". These are big guys. But soccer is, they're incredible athletes. But so much of it is mental and so much of it is that awareness at a young age and understanding how to make those line-breaking passes, how to understand what you're supposed to do, your cues. It's such a complex sport to a level of... You know, you have to be that insane person who loves it. And again, when I talk about athletes who love it, like soccer players love it, you know. I mean, it's next level because you have to live, sleep, breathe. It's a cultural thing, isn't it? I think all of a sudden if you wiped out all the other sports in the U.S. history and you just had soccer over the same period of time, I'm sure there'd be a lot further along. You've got that many kids here and that many kids would be playing it compared to what it is now. It would be a different... And I would say as expensive as club and... MLS Next and ECNL and all the ones we don't even get at the basic level of going out and playing soccer. If you want to play at a rec level, you don't have to buy a ton of equipment. You don't have to, it still is affordable. If you compare it to hockey and growing up in hockey, you're constantly buying really expensive gear over and over and over again, but soccer, you get the ball. And you have to buy cleats. Yeah. Well, that's, this is the thing that's happened in the United States. We've somehow made soccer and basketball and baseball kind of expensive. Yes. Expensive when it's the most simple equipment. It's a simple thing. But you're right though. I mean, there's still, it's got a very low bar of entry and that's how it should be. It's just uniquely different in terms of a pathway. And hockey is a little bit more like soccer in that sense. And to where a lot of the guys are getting into at a younger age and they're. pathway to development is a little bit different, but they're both motion sports. Like I always say football, basketball, soccer, and hockey are all variations of the same sport. It's all pretty darn similar. Baseball, the one that is wildly different. It's a board game and you have your low probability roll of the dice and you move around. But you know, they're all motion sports require different levels of engagement at young ages. And I think that That's why soccer and hockey kind of mirror each other in that way to where it's like you've got to start understanding these things. Even basketball has done it more now. It used to be more of just the high school, college, but now with all the programs, the AAU and such, it's more and more. I would think you have to be a good skater. I was just going back to the youth soccer and thinking of the Quakes. How are they doing with getting young players into the first team? Obviously, you talked about Nico Tazaka, who's been on the show, of course. Are we starting to see more young players come into both the Quakes and the MLS overall? For all you seeing that. Yeah, I mean, we've seen Bo LaRue this year. He's been a product of the Academy system. You talk about the Spivey brothers. They're all a part of the system, and they're about to make their way in. Previously, Cade Cowell was the big one that broke through. You go back to Tommy Thompson before that, our first homegrown signing back in 2014. Now there is much more of an emphasis on that Academy pathway for the San Jose Earthquakes. And I'm sure everybody at the Earthquakes will want me to point out that they are not a pay-to-play model. That's where they try to separate themselves. And they, you know, if you're part of that system and they've got scouts out to look for people, you're in the system. It's not asking mom and dad to write the, you know, the big checks and such. And that's, you know, but that's again, scouting and finding these players, which again, we can talk about how much of that might be deterred in the United States by a lot of these other kids being in pay to play models who maybe don't get that opportunity. And so they have to be in different areas where they don't have those opportunities to be even scouted. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the question, too. I mean, most of the, I think, conclusions people come to is the biggest challenge for the U.S. is that it's so big and that the talent is spread across such a wide area that to really find the people who would benefit from an academy program with the Quakes, like, maybe they live in Lubbock, you know, and they're just the best player on their team, but they don't have access to all the same things. I don't know what the answer is. Yeah, it's, it's hard. And I think that the, uh, the direct comparison would probably be finding out more of what Hockey in Canada did because you have kids out in everywhere in low populated communities and you know they would be you know they call them barns for a reason because these old rinks were literally in barns that they would make them way back in the day but they they networked before social media they had you know these abilities of filtering talent and having people talk and that's probably got to be more about it but because now the financial incentive is so huge I think that there's probably a lot of posturing that teams have to deal with because then every team in a way we've got the next wonder kid. And you don't want to lose that wonder kid. Like, I guess that in a club, right? If some club has the most amazing, you know, like, kid, you don't want to lose them because they're going to get pulled to, like, you know, so if you take, like, an Alex Buck, who's obviously an amazing player at Washington, when she goes and plays for the national team, they're without her, you know? And then they're still having to play their games, and that program still wants success, right? So, obviously, the analogy's not great Celebrating her success, but it does impact their program, which I would say like youth programs who are trying to survive in this world of very competitive clubs that are all. You want to keep your people, your kids. Of course. And I don't know how you incentivize them to send those kids, if we're talking pipeline, if we're talking about finding the best talent. We're just talking about playing. That is the challenge. The geography is that you go and look at Spain, the world champions, all the professional clubs are so close together in that country that you're probably no more than an hour away from a professional club that can be free to play because all the pro clubs have free academies. For the Quakes, the challenge is, like you said, I played my son's team against a team from Vaisalia the other day. Some amazing kids. How is the best 10-year-old from Vaisalia going to get to San Jose to go and be traveling? It's near on impossible until they get older. Maybe they're going to move near there. So that is certainly a challenge. Also, why are you playing a team from Vaisalia when you're in the Bay Area and we have 1,000 teams here? Well, it was like State Cup. They go to Ripon. You remember Ripon? You remember those good old days driving to Ripon and Manteca for the weekend? But I think that also still feels like. I don't know if it's just too spread out. Like State Cup is for the whole state, but California is an enormous state. And I know they break it up north and south, but people are driving, parents are driving. And so that kid, to your point, can't get up there. But some of those kids can't do this club thing even if they get a scholarship to it because the logistics of it are just crazy. Yeah, and it's also like we're talking about these things that dominate weekends. And it's like, this is where I always get into the balance. argument of, like, they need to be kids as well. They need to continue to fall in love with other aspects of life. We need well-rounded individuals. Because I've had people ask me, like, oh, how come you're not having your kids do the, you know, the competitive or doing the club? It's like, because I want, like, if that's... For them, it will become apparent as they get older and you can still plug them in. But it's like, you want them to be focused on school. You want them to be playing other sports. You want them to be having friendships and having- Happy, healthy humans. Exactly. But here's the deal is we're getting more and more into a polarized society where it's like, what's the pathway for my kid to make the most money? And that's happening to the younger and younger age. And it's like, well, is this their avenue to maybe have some help getting into college? Is this their avenue to have some help at this next stage of their life? When you bring in more and more of that financial incentive, however it may be used, I think you see parents putting more and more emphasis. And this is nothing new. It's been going on for a while, but it's just, it becomes more and more prominent because now you also see like parents are doing reels for their kids when they're like 12 years old and they're trying to be their own mini agents and stuff. And it's to the extent that it's like, is this really, who is this helping? It's a lot, but I was, and we. We give parents a lot of grief on this podcast, I feel like, don't we? A little bit. Hopefully not too much. No, but I mean, because I think that's where the pressure comes. If you're talking about kids, there's only so much that goes on their shoulders. Thank But to be fair, I think parents... are unsure of what they need to do and in a system where everyone is doing this thing you don't want to be the parent unless you have like you a better perspective that didn't support your kid in doing something they so want like you know like i remember when watching this so you think you can dance much. show right and these dancers who were like my mom moved to new york so i could pursue my dance career when i was 12. i'm like really yeah Like, wow, like, that's me. And obviously, you're an incredible dancer. But I'm like, they just picked up their life because at 12, you were a pretty good dancer. And now you're in New York, like, amazing. But it's that it's that same desire that that drives them to do that, that that drives someone, you know, on a different level to make their kid go to 100 practices to find that extra goalkeeper coach or that extra striker coach because they want to. And I don't know how you get out of it feels like a Like you're in a washing machine, you know, and you can't get out. You're trying to climb out and you're trying to be reasonable about it, but you're also trying to do right by, if you see it, your kid has a talent at something. But I think it's like that with a lot of things. If you look at the hyper successful individuals and use that as a frame of reference, it never works. I mean, they, they always, they essentially hit a lottery. Like if you were to go talk to Mark Zuckerberg and say, give me the exact steps for this. I don't think you could replicate that. I don't think you could do that with messy. I don't think you could do that with Curry. I don't think you could do that with. And any great individual, I think they're also idiosyncratic. And we use those. We have this little breadcrumb trail to where we look at it and say, that's what they did. So that's what I want to do for my child, because that's a pathway. And there's nothing wrong with that. We all want what's best for our kids. We all want, we would love to have them have that help, a pathway to be like, hey, if my kid's good at soccer, maybe that will help them get into Stanford where they can get a great education. I think that, you know, you have to. Be honest about whether or not they're going to be on the national team or playing for PSG at some point. Or they even want to. Yeah, but it's also hard to look at it and say like, well, what if they do enjoy this? And what if I can keep on pushing them and having them go down this pathway to where it does help them get into a school? But it's like, how hard do you push? How do you, you know, like that's a very, it's a very fine line. And that's... That's part of the American culture that exists. It's good for these young people to have a goal, though, and have a dream to reach, right? If they think, like, I wonder, I want to play at college or play pro, at least it's that thing, you know, what's the aim for the moon, you land amongst the stars, or which way around does that saying go? It's good for them to have the, if they really want to do that, have the desire to go and achieve and be something and keep going to practice. And if they really like it, it's a good thing for their development, right? And I think you could support that without becoming... And I'm not calling anyone, but saying that parent that people are like, don't become that parent. Like we all say, I don't want to become that. I don't want to be that parent. But there's obviously a middle ground there. But if you talked about Inigo Chiqueras, he says he wasn't pressured. And, and his dad would know what it takes to get to the top. And I mean, I could make a dumb comparison and say that both me and my brother are professional broadcasters. Just like Nico is a professional soccer player. Like his dad was like, he, we never felt any pressure either. We were, I mean, my dad was like, this is a crazy industry. You might not want to do it. That's what everyone brought. But it's like, it's, it's one of those things to where, and I'm sure it was this way for Steph Curry. If your dad is in a field and it becomes normalized, then there really isn't the same type of. pressure because that is the norm. And you can see it. You can see it. You know exactly how it works. And I've always said this for myself. When I got into it as an intern, I would see these kids go up to athletes and they'd be so nervous. And I was like, my dad, when I was 13 years old, he'd be like, Ted, over there where that scrim is, just hold the microphone up and press record. I was like, oh, okay. So I would go over there and do that. Whereas Macklin Celebrini, whose dad is the head trainer for the Warriors, he was hanging around Steph Curry and Draymond Green at a young So not only was he on his own pathway. He was around that professional athlete lifestyle, so it's not a big deal. I mean, those are... So that's why I wasn't very good. I didn't know how to step curry when I was... Now I've solved it. I've solved my mediocre athletic career. Thank you. We appreciate it. Lack of exposure. Thank you. Got it. You weren't doing CrossFit back then. That was great. Great. No, I was not. If you'd had that... Thank you. If I had, yeah. Have a great rest of your career. Oh, gosh, I have so many delusions of grandeur. . But yeah, no, I think that's fair to that point. I think, you know, when you're trying to push your child into anything, And push, probably it's the wrong word, but encourage or support your child in that journey. If you don't have as much exposure and you don't have as much knowledge and you don't, you may overdo it. Yeah. With good intentions. With good intentions. Which is parenting, I think. Yeah, that's, I. And we all do that. We're all guilty of that. I mean, because with my kids, because I have, you know, whatever they want to look at, and I'm guilty of this because as you may have heard from my preparation, I can be a little Uh, over the top in that regard. Yes. So if they show an interest in something, I'm like, oh, well here, let me throw everything at you. You can do to maximize that. And I'd be like, hold up, hold up. So, you know, it's like when my kid says they want to get better at soccer, even though every professional athlete I've talked to has been like, yeah, just juggle, just go to a wall and do that. I, there's a part of me that's fighting. It's like, all right, Desmond, who's my young one. Like here's every YouTube of every drill I can show you of how you can maximize and have to be like. Don't like, don't do that because he's not asking for that. He's asking how he can get better. Instead of giving him the simple answer, my brain is screaming, here's everything that you could possibly do as opposed to just. Giving him the simple answer, which to get where I got to today of being that type A of look at everything, absorb everything possible. I had to go on that journey. And I have to remember like, okay, don't, don't take that journey away from them. Sure. You can't, you can't replace that and you can't speed it up. It just is. No, there's got to be an internal desire there to do it as well. And then you can go show them all that stuff, but then you've, the person who's got to go do it. I don't remember anybody telling me you've got to go practice. You just want to go and do it because you wanted to get better, be better than your friends and be the best. You could be, I think that's the, that internal driver can't be overlooked. Always. No fun. It has to be fun. It should be fun. That's, that's another thing is, and I've talked to coaches who work in all sports and they say that you can start to see when there's so much practice and so many games, it's like these kids aren't having fun the same way. And we put so much emphasis and development. It's like. Don't take away the fun. This is supposed to be a game. You heard this in any, like with the Sharks and with the Quakes, you have the unique sports in which young players are a part of it, 18 year olds getting up and you hear them talking about having fun. And then the older athletes are like, yeah, it should be fun. Like, that's why I'm still doing this at age 30, whatever, they're still playing as a 14, 15 year veteran because it's so much fun. And it's like, let's not forget that. It's the fun, it's a game. Like, yes, huge financial stakes, huge career stakes, everything. That's a life skill, right? You have to enjoy the majority of what you do in your day. Hopefully you do. Oh, yeah. Hopefully you do. I wouldn't say a lot of people sometimes do, but hopefully that's the goal. So then if we're doing some things right here and we're patient, what does four years from now look like? I mean, we've got Women's World Cup next year, but what does four years for the men look like? I think the goal is still the same, to get out of the knockout rounds. Okay. When does that goal change? This is what we talked a lot about before this one. Don't start talking about winning it. I know. Don't start winning the whole thing. I like that. Why not us? See, but I don't mind that argument because I think that's part of what we define as American exceptionalism, is we think we can conquer anything. Yes. We do not look at anything and say, oh, we can't achieve that. Now, we do that- But you just said only the knockout rounds, so that is- But- But that's that's the goal. But I don't think it's wrong. Like when I was doing sports talk shows, I was having very knowledgeable soccer fans saying who are professional media members saying there's no reason why the United States can't go to the final. And I was like, I agree with you. There is no reason why. Now, that doesn't mean that's the goal. Well, there's a few Spain, Argentina, England, France. But craziness happens. I mean, if you look at all sports and wild things that have happened over the time, like... The United States beating Russia in the hockey in 1980, the Olympics. The way that Croatia, with their relatively small population, has become a soccer power. That doesn't, like, this is the type of things where sports, if you can start to do things the right way, things change, and they change in a hurry. Like I said, you know, women's gymnastics in this country, we turned that into something we dominated. I said, there's a cost along the way. Like, I think we can look back and be like, okay, let's not. Do that again. Yeah. But also like you see that we can, we can throw enough money and enough time at things to where we can turn that into our top sport. It's just. It's got to be more of the cultural norm. And I think that's why in four years, if you have success again, and it's going to be harder because in Portugal, Spain, and Morocco, the time zone doesn't line up quite the same way. So it's going to be a little bit harder. But actually, I go back to 2020, like every day before school, before I was getting my kids to school, they were watching the games at 6 a.m. They wanted to get up and watch them. And this, not to make us all sound old, but like when our kids' kids have kids, that's probably going to be when we are more in that. Reasonable expectations to be in the semifinal or final. You think four years, if you could reach a quarterfinal or something like that, that would be a huge success for the current group, I would think. They've got some good young players and managers, a good coach. My brother's wife is English, and she talks about how the country comes to a grinding halt for the national team. Then you're all going to your pubs. It's not work stops. And they get frustrated with getting to the semifinals. But at the same time, I've asked her, like, but that's pretty cool, right? She's like, oh, of course. Like, you can't be too upset with getting to the semifinals and then watching Jude Bellingham tick off Lionel Messi and then having Messi do his thing. Alex wasn't stressed at all during this World Cup. Not at all. There's a lot going on there towards the end. It was a great, great ride. It was a great sort of journey that didn't end quite as it should have. But even England, one of the traditional powers, made it to the semifinal. Of the four nations that made it like that's not that is the expectation. That is the bar, I would say, for England, whether we're talking about the World Cup or Euros. And I don't view that as you might view it as a failure. And. Other Englishmen might view it as a failure, but I'm not viewing it as a failure. I think the players view it as a failure because I think they felt like they've got the capabilities to win it. That's the difference. I think Eddie's reaching a semi-final is great, but I think England's expectation is to win it. Obviously, they've only won it once, so there's not really any realistic reason why we should think that, but they have a good team. They've just got the best player in the world now, recently crowned. And I do think, though, that that is the difference. You're talking about players who say, We're good enough. We should win this whole thing. And on the American side, it's why not us? It's going to be referencing miracle, referencing these come from behind. You counted us out, but this crazy thing happened. It will be nice when it comes to that point where we're like, we have all the talent in the world. We are well prepared to just take this thing. And that's when I think you'll know that something has definitely shifted. That's the cultural time. Time, it's all that argument over and over. And I know that everybody wants the easy answer. And if I had the easy answer, I would give it to the United States. That's why we brought you in here. I told you to solve all the world's problems. If you give me some more time, we can go into the geopolitical sphere next. We're going to give you your flashcards for the next Solving All the World's Problems, World Peace, and all of the above. Which soccer can cure a lot of those. Like I said, the World Cup was the great antidote to all of the tensions in the world. Everybody just said, nuts to that. Let's watch some football. Yes. Let's row. Let's drink all the beer that Boston has. Let's pack St. Pedro's Square. Loved it. Loved it. Ted Ramey, we loved the conversation. Thank you. Anytime. Thanks so much for coming in. Thank you for coming in. Great to see you. All right. Bye-bye. Thanks. I think it's important.