Fireside Chat Ep. 156 — When Childish Worldviews Take Over | Fireside Chat

Hi everybody, welcome. I'm Dennis Prager. This is the fireside chat. That's the fireside I will chat but not alone as you does does everybody see my guest already or is it only on me? Good. And of course otto is here And it is a very rare fireside chat that I have a guest so it's an an immediate statement of my belief in the importance of what they have to say And nobody has more important things to say than douglas murray who is british and who is An independent and courageous voice in britain writes for the spectator has written major books I've had him on my radio show I quote your books I learned now you started writing at 18. Yeah Well, you probably started earlier than that. You were published at 18. Yes. Yeah. My first book was Outrageously precociously early, you know, yes it was, you know, I just want to say for the record my first book I was 24 And I thought that was impressive so That shatters that well This is the purpose of life. I am convinced is to be humbled on a regular basis It's very easy when you think I mean by the age of both of us were doing that, you know keeps had written everything Oh, yeah. Oh, no, all right, or you know, mozart had written 12 symphonies It's endless that's what I mean life is permanently humbling Anyway, douglas murray is the author of the madness of crowds. That's the latest of your books and the strange death of europe uh, which uh is Just they're they're both extremely significant so let me begin with uh With a question that I ask all these independent voices That I have the honor of of talking to I have a theory but i'm not going to tell you my theory till I I get an answer from you How does somebody like you? develop and I very specifically I've always said there are many fine traits kindness honesty decency loyalty But the rarest of all the good traits and the most important is courage And it's the rarest you have that And i'm not complimenting you it's just a fact even if one doesn't like you and I do like you obviously but if You have courage Do you know where that comes from? Uh, it's very hard to say if yourself. Um, it's easier to say about other people. Uh Uh to my mind it doesn't nothing I do feels particularly like courage Uh, I know lots of things that are courageous to do. I know lots of jobs that are courageous to do I don't think that being a writer should be a courageous thing to do. It can be at certain times. It's true um My own belief that is is that it's something more like not being willing to put up with lies And that if you have that instinct and quite a lot of writers do um I mean, it's sort of the best reason to be a writer in a way Uh, if you don't like lies and you just can't Allow them to just flood by And you have a voice then it's likely that you will use it To try to stop that flood of lies and for a lot of people that's Um, and for a lot of writers throughout their lives, that's quite an easy thing to do. I mean they can Pick, you know sort of fire shots at politicians when they tell fibs for instance and politicians do tell fibs It's a long career just in doing that But I think the more interesting thing to do the harder thing to do is to identify the things the level beneath that You know what the big lies of the time Might be right. So you are confirming my theory, which is not a happy one It is built into you to hate lies Uh, or it could be taught it could be acquired through Parenting or do you think it was? Yes to a considerable extent I think you have siblings I do do they hate lies Yes, I think so. Do they share your views on life? Um a lot of things. Yes uh, I I think it also I have a personal view on this is that um your formative years uh are Important for so many reasons, but one of them is giving you an idea of what you are defending Now when I was growing up I was immersed in music uh I was immersed in literature in the arts and in other things as well, but I and religion, uh I knew what was good, you know, I knew what was worth defending And I can think of a lot of people who I think don't particularly care about lies and don't particularly care about fighting some of the battles that some of us fight because They don't really know what is worth defending. Um They're quite happy to give things up Concede let things flow away. And I think that if you know uh The wonders and the greatness of what our civilization has produced And you cherish them Then you're willing to fight for them, right? But that is a big if to my amazement A vast number of people in the west do not appreciate the west. Yes That is astonishing to live In a place that has produced the only places That have given vast numbers of people equality opportunity prosperity The most sublime art philosophy It is the place the western world is where the rest of the world wants to move to in vast numbers And yet at stanford in the 1990s or 80s Jesse jackson led a march. Hey, hey, ho ho Western civ has got to go. Yes These people fall into several categories and one of them Is obviously as you know is people who genuinely think they have a better alternative Yeah, I think erroneously mad madly Insanely, but they think they've got a better alternative some of them Think that maoism might be the way forward for instance hasn't been tried hard enough in the past or uh, any number of other ideas uh, they think that now a another group That I think particularly exists in america is people who Believe that western civilization is something like the color that paint is until you add color That is it's a totally non-descript natural state to which everything else gets added in These are people who've grown up in america in the late 20th early 21st century And they think that america in the late 20th and early 21st century is the natural order of things Into which you can add all these wonderful colors And they have no idea because they've never been anywhere else. They've never studied any history. They're wildly ignorant They've no idea that what america is in the late 20th and early 21st century is Unimaginably rare in human history and in the world today But they think they think it's just oh everything always falls out like california in 2020 You know, they think if you just drop people on on the planet, it always comes out looking kind of like manhattan They've got no idea But they think that that's that's the basic starting point. You know, they are the people I think of as the Incredibly parochial and untraveled alleged internationalists Right who believe that civilization in america ends at the hudson river Yes I grew up in new york. I i'm very familiar with that attitude You we are in such agreement I from the from the earliest age Knew how rare america was And I I don't know why I did and vast numbers of my peers didn't spelled america with a k As if we're a fascist country Do you not know what fascism is and I and I realized something they really don't know what evil is Ah, yes Yes, uh, I Put it in other words. Well, they've they've forgotten what uh, miguel, you know Describes as a tragic sense of life exactly by the way I mean Isn't there a problem in the american experience on this which is that? One of the one of the things that's made america possible in a way is a certain forgetfulness of that sense I write about that in strange death of europe europe is to a great extent infused With that sense it may never be able to shed it And there is a lot of weight And tiredness as I describe that can come from such knowledge including growing up and being surrounded by such knowledge in a way, I think a great problem for thinking of Of and for america is that the absence of that tragic sense of life is one of the things that's got this country going. I mean The built-in built-in optimism the the forward sense that the urge forward and yet Having none of that sense of the tragic sense of life means that you have these people growing up who who think this is, you know that america is the worst state imaginable and And how do you how do you educate those people other than them by seeing firsthand? what the rest of Humanity learned before but if they learn it the lesson is to everyone's expense It's a very hard conundrum that one Well, the education system isn't helping Uh, what did what did I just read? I've i've already made the case They know nothing about communism. Yes, which is the greatest killer of humans in the history of the world and in one century But they are increasingly not even aware Of what the nazis did Yeah, I think 40 percent. Is that right 40 percent of american youth? Not even I don't mean kids this recent poll. Yes, but never heard of the holocaust And and a tiny percent could identify auschwitz. Yes Yes, well, well in both our countries. We have this phenomenon now of people. Um, Viewing history as this vast savannah of grievance, you know which we can roam through and find things to feel grievance about and quite often today you hear from the universities and elsewhere you hear people saying things like I was never told about this oppression that occurred to my people in year, whatever And I always have the same Response, which is I mean most people don't know anything very much And what the example you just gave of the recent poll that came out about ignorance about the holocaust in america is an example of that It's no good saying, you know, I I was brought up without knowing about this particular Issue of oppression for my group if you've never heard about the greatest oppressions in human history I mean, um It's hard to know what to do with ignorance like this particularly when it's taught it's like I I I note that virtually every major instance of that that popular widely publicized instance of noose swastika um N-word painted on on a dorm door Turned out to be a hoax. Yes. Yes, and I I I made the point then it's called the smalletism now, I think Oh, is that right? Oh good. Good. He deserves to be made into a noun but the uh, I I note in the 1930s No, jew in germany made up an anti-semitic hoax. No, it wasn't needed Yeah, yeah, no, there's um, I I think of this as explained in the past as a supply and demand problem America has a great demand for fascists with a very small supply. That is a great line. You gotta get that that that That is terrific. I mean, I mean the the demand is so great that you have to find them where they aren't You have to identify people who are fascists who aren't And if you were living in a fascist state, there would be no supply and demand problem Uh, you'd find them on every corner, you know um But you know i've lived a long life and I tell people I never met a white supremacist. I I feel like What's wrong with me? I've been to all 50 states Somehow or other it just I never met one. Yes The the few that do exist and there are some I think of course the few that do exist Uh, I mean, uh, they become world famous overnight the moment they identify themselves. I mean richard spencer ran All of the news, you know people think he's some huge figure now rather than just some weird wacko loner guy Same thing with david duke. I mean you hear about him every four years as some titanic force in american politics, right? Uh, so if you are identified as that once you can run and run on it for the rest of your life It seems but this is comes back to the supply and demand problem There are two people whose names I just rattled off. We wouldn't be able to rattle off If america was what america's enemies claim it is so the people doing this This is the 64 000 pound euro dollar question. I prefer sterling. Yeah Yes, I I didn't exactly I included it there by the way before I continue on on the great question so I This piece of trivia and it's before you were born obviously, but I spent my third year at university in england at the university of leeds. Oh so I want to know if you will understand the answer I got when my first day in leeds I bought food for my flat And I said how much is it? And of course this is before Decimalization. Yeah. Yeah. So he said Do you know what that means? Um, the top is the hapenny I know yeah Oh, you do. Yes, two pence and a half penny. How do you know that? um From reading I suppose books and seeing films in that era where that crops up I still if you tested me on pre-decimalization currency, I wouldn't be able to go very far So I think my grandparents probably explained. So it was four pounds two pence And a half penny. So anyway, the guy says to me and i'm from brooklyn, new york and my first time in england And he goes font up and save me So I said i'm sorry. What was that? And he goes font up and zip me And so I just gave him a wad of cash and said I trust you sir. Take out whatever it was Is it this it was It could have been in croatian it was I had a lot of I had a great year in england, by the way. All right. Anyway, so here's the 64th pound question There are so many people at the universities. I mean the intellectual elite of the west Is morally defective And they love lies to use your your phrase. They are the opposite of you How did they come about uh It's as you say, it's a very important question. Uh, I think there's several things One is a certain, you know, or certain strands of thought Becoming very important and indeed in the end dominant in the late 20th century deconstructionism uh french theory then critical theory um These are people as I say in the matters of crowd somewhere who never found anyone that they Anything that they didn't want to deconstruct apart from their own departments um They they rampaged through all of the disciplines And I think frankly they intimidated other people And there's several forms of that intimidation. One is a perfectly organized one I think most of the marxists and neo-marxists did this in an organized manner, you know, they actually Organized to take over departments and indeed in the end whole universities but others worked by a kind of intellectual intimidation, which i've noticed as you have throughout my life, which is that they they advance on the idea that other people Will be baffled and in the end embarrassed and then submit To the claims and the assertions that they make Uh that it will sound so intimidatingly obscure to them That they have to agree with it and go along with it for fear that they will look stupid And that's how we've ended up with this emperor's new clothes situation of what's now become critical theory developed from theory which is that People fear that if they didn't Get on board with it They would look like um Unintellectual unintellectual dinosaurs at best unintellectual or anti-intellectual at worst um And not enough people stood up to it. I mean one of my great mentors and heroes Great friend the late roger scruton was one of very few people in the uk and I think in the world really who consistently for decades stood up against this and he did it because He was curious and he read their texts as I do and as you do I mean, you know, we read what what these people we disagree with right a favor by the way that they do not return Um, I forever peer on things with people who say that they haven't read my books. They don't need to because they know what I think um Uh, but but we read their books. I wish they knew what you thought by the way Yeah, they don't know that I mean it is it is a grievance as it were of my own this fact because I think that it's It's unfair to their own arguments in a way and it doesn't help their own case That's why they don't debate. Yeah, absolutely I have found this and less and less as you sort of think that they'll want to take you on more and more But the more I have offered on the radio 10 20 000 to any new york times columnist who wants to debate me Yeah, yeah, and the money's on the table. Not just me. It doesn't have to be me. I'll give a list I'll give a whole list they could choose It's it's a very striking thing, but it is in the end I hope I I'm a sort of optimist on this. I think it will be to their own detriment. But yes, they uh, We look at what they say and and roger scruton did this Analyze the texts and found that they were wanting that that the views that they put out were wrong Um that they were narrow that they were doctrinaire um and once more and this is one of the most interesting giveaways because As you know as a writer your job is among other things to make ideas as As easy to understand as they can be, you know A great writer would distill can't into an understandable volume That's that's not a small thing to do. That would have to be a great writer Yeah, it would have to be a great writer It would have to be a great writer and a great thinker at the absolute top of their game Same thing with any of the great philosophers to try to sum up what a great philosopher is saying you need a serious degree of intelligence, but also clarity and what's so striking about The anti-intellectual left that has emerged and become dominant in the west and particularly in america is that they Take really quite straightforward assertions And they make them impossible to comprehend And they write volumes and volumes and by now i've created whole libraries Based on this they they take I mean it happens to me repeatedly. I I look at the things that are written by the radical left And particular volumes that are produced by people in universities and I find that the game that they have engaged in is to take either a non-idea or an assertion And make it impossible to understand and by this by this technique They have advanced incredibly far because most people are like Hans Christian Andersen shows in the tale with the emperor new clothes Most people are too scared to say there are no clothes on this emperor They are intimidated and I think that any reasonably intelligent person should say I call bs on this Well, you mentioned you you had a musical background You play an instrument or only the piano for my own pleasure now, but I I play several. Yeah, right So, oh, so we both have a love of music here. Yeah, okay So what is it four minutes 26 seconds? What? 433 are you familiar with that? Of course? Yeah, okay this Most of you watching do not know this a prominent american composers john cage Wrote a piece quote unquote called four minutes 33 seconds What happens the pianist? Sits at a piano in front of an audience for four minutes and 33 seconds And plays nothing And then the audience applauds Now you would think this is a gimmick It's this is the emperor's new clothes in in the music world as I think much of the atonal atonality is but I i'm only raising this this just I discovered yesterday Because I conduct orchestras as an avocation i'm very into music and I uh, katya bunashvili, I think a very well-known a pianist from georgia the country of georgia and uh, she just made a released cd One of the pieces is four minutes 33 seconds So I went to it And sure enough, there's silence So you have bought a cd One of whose tracks is nothing For four minutes and 33 seconds. I am I have I agree that the absurdity of what cage was doing There is one other way to view it, of course, which is in a way he put he put a stop to something unknowingly, I think but I think by the time that cage did that music had come to a point where it had almost completely broken down And in a way after cage does that there is nothing more to do Other than to start again uh It's the it's part of the argument that alex alex ross makes in the rest is noise his history of music in the 20th century Which is it requires everything to fall apart for people to start again with tonality among other things I think you could say something similar happens in literature except that literature when it's totally I mean People can listen to cacophony if they want um, you can't read complete mumbo-jumbo for very long So it was harder for literature to break down in the same way, but when it does as with ideas people start again It's one of the things that I find rather moving about it. I think by the way That's something that's happening at the moment. I think we are actually in the end of post-modernism at the moment and that from that People are starting afresh. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I feel it. Well Look, it's a joy to hear something optimistic uh In britain, do they have mandatory? Uh race consciousness sessions at places of work Uh, it's it's come in in the last few years. It's had a huge boost in the last few months. It's one of the um, Bits of american export which I don't thank americans for Um, yes, we have got all of this flooding through us now when I was researching the matters of crowds I I was this was actually the one thing that shocked me the most I I knew what was happening in the universities None of that surprised me. I knew what was happening the wider culture. None of that surprised me I was genuinely surprised to discover the extent to which you know Implicit bias training and all the gunk that comes along with it had gone rushing through major corporations Fortune 500 companies and that they were willingly taking this on. Yeah, it's everywhere now. Well companies The the association of companies with conservatism is an absurdity. Yes, isn't it? It's but it's very hard for a lot of people to understand that isn't it from the outside apparently? Yeah They they really do think oh, you know energy companies won't go in for this. You know, yeah You weighed all of the banks Suck it all up. They all do So is it cowardice or what? Oh, no My theory of that is um, it's the cheapest thing they can do because all the real prices they would pay would cost them um for instance my bank uh in the uk Goes huge on gay pride now much huger than I am at all willing For them to go they put they put last and it was pride Has become now pride month Uh pushed by the corporates and my bank had a big signs all over it throughout this month saying love happens here and As I repeatedly said I don't want love to happen at my bank I just want you not to charge me five pounds when i've lost my back statements and need them, you know Very basic things are required from my bank Nothing in the in the realm of love is needed over the till or elsewhere It's a very strange thing and it's happened everywhere the banks the big corporations. They've all thrown themselves into this now Here's my theory After the crash of 2008 there were a lot of ways the banks could be made to pay This is the cheapest thing they could get away with to cover themselves in pretend glory Everything else required them to really pay So I think that so it's protection money Yeah corporate wokeness is the cheapest things corporations can do to dodge the things that would otherwise come at them Or the energy companies for instance who pretend that you know, what they really want to do is is diversity They're doing it because they know it's the best way to dodge what might be coming at them and it goes on in case of This happened in the uk recently we had a case with a a supermarket in the uk that actually for 24 hours boycotted the spectator because a Single individual said that we ran anti-trans articles, which we don't but they were complaining about some articles We've run by left-wing feminists complaining against some of trans extremism This particular supermarket immediately apologized and then we had a we pushed back against them And this supermarket apologized for boycott We actually said we don't want your adverts because you cannot dictate our editorial policy and you will not um This has happened. However repeatedly with supermarket change in the uk as it has done with with with Similar groups here and you look at these things and you say what are they doing? And here's here's an example. It happened with another one the other day called sainsbury's in the uk We started pumping out things on social media saying we don't want racists to shop in our shops as if the uk is covered in racist shoppers, you know kkk outfits in the cereal aisle, you know and they send out these ridiculous over-the-top messages saying We are for diversity and any racist should shop elsewhere again. What are you doing? You know you sell not very good products, you know You should and you never got people in the aisles at the right time and your checkouts are never manned And by a comparison with your your um, your uh, the competitors you overpriced things Anyhow, all of these things could be said. However, I did the other thing. I looked at their board Their board is entirely comprised I think with no with one exception of elderly white men Their corporate board is entirely filled with elderly white men The board of their bank is entirely filled with elderly white men. So what are they doing? They're deflecting. They are deflecting They are hoping that nobody will notice this If they do this, hey racists don't buy your chocolate from us nonsense So they're doing it they're doing it too much And I think these I think that these people are already making themselves absurd So your bank had a gay pride month. Yes. Did it have the flag? Oh, oh, you couldn't move for the flag Yeah, the windows were the flag. Does it ever have the british flag? Oh, no I don't know that It would be hated for that. I presume it would be thought to be racist. Yes. Yes, exactly And then it would have to be banned from certain supermarkets. So let me ask you a question Conservatives are accused routinely among the usual Uh as I point out six herbs sexist intolerance unifobic homophobic islamophobic racist bigoted I I came up with that acronym like 20 years ago and uh, so On the homophobia issue, do you what what would you respond to conservatives are homophobic? I'd want more information. I want to know what they're talking about um As with all these assertions what's so strange is the assertion is just thrown out there with nothing else needing to come in So people with if somebody said that I say what are you talking about? and uh, I suppose the normal thing that happens is they say something like oh, um Conservatives weren't on board with gay marriage until quite recently Well, I would say well, I mean nobody was on board with gay marriage till quite recently I mean the left wasn't obama wasn't I mean most people weren't um I think actually what what all these things have become homophobia is a good example Are just ways that people try to unperson you, you know um, I know Plenty of people like myself who are gay who happen to be right wing Who get told for instance that they must be um oh I got I got a great one a little while ago from a friend in the uk who said he was accused of being a fake gay uh Because he was conservative. He was conservative. Uh, well, you're a fake woman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah If you're not Exactly. Yeah, uh the examples I give in the mads of crowd, you know In the mads of crowds, uh, peter teal is is is denounced as not being gay by the main gay magazine in america When he comes out for donald trump, uh, kanye west is said by tana He's he coats not to be black in the american Atlantic magazine when tan when uh, when kanye west comes out for trump Jermaine, greer is apparently no longer a feminist and you go through this list And as I say in the madness of crowds, you realize quite fast. We're not talking about identity. We're just talking about brute politics We're just talking about insane demagogic left-wing activists using Anything to win a political argument and i'm not interested in that and other people shouldn't be either and here's the thing People have been too intimidated by this for too long It's just too late to be willing to be shut up by these people And there are so many people who have been shut up good honest people who are not homophobic or racist or any of these other things who have been intimidated by being called these names and My my request to people on this is is what has become We've heard enough about the silent majority The silent majority has to stop being silent. It has to speak up. It has to say we will not allow your spell words to work anymore Yes, that's the thing Uh, this is the this is the issue. This would be the the turning point If people spoke up However, I I want to say on their behalf because I hear from them on my radio show and in my email all the time They genuinely believe That they would be fired from their job. Yes, or they would be kicked out of of of uh, what was it recently the um my god, uh some university The president of the student union the president re-elected and re-elected was kicked out for For not having a left-wing position on some matter People write to me. What do I tell my my daughter if she writes what she believes the uh, It's okay. It's okay He's very relaxed. He's sleeping. You know, I feel a little better because I I intuit that he's bored by me at every fireside chat, but with you i'm a little surprised I'm sorry, I couldn't keep it So, what do I what this is so let me tell you I want to know your answer to the to the woman who called me dennis If my my daughter wants my advice my not me dennis, but her the mother's advice the mother wants my advice My my daughter if she writes what she believes on an exam or in a paper knows she will get a bad grade What do I tell her? So this is what I answer And i'm curious what yours would be I say look I can't tell you what to tell your daughter. I could tell you what I would say to your daughter I would say if if you start compromising On what you believe for a grade When will you stop yeah What would you say? um I would agree with that. I would say be smart and brave um For instance, yes There are I hear similarly from people saying, you know, i'm in this firm and we've been made to do this you know, um But here's the thing if if everyone was a little bit brave It doesn't it doesn't require everyone to do sort of kamikaze levels of you know of bravery. We don't we don't need that I mean wouldn't hurt to have a bit more of that but What we need is for everyone just to step up one step forward. That's good. So for instance Don't if you're the only if you think you're the only conservative in your class at university, you're the only conservative in your office Don't don't do something wildly over the top brave don't don't bring all of the attention to yourself and You know and and get yourself in trouble that could be career ending But but step forward a little bit know when you can and should say no Uh, for instance, this is one i've got quite a lot recently um Bosses in america as in britain have started in the last few months to be saying things like You the employees should read the following texts I say to people Uh, I mean i'm thinking of you know The sort of the obvious text the unreadable guff by robin d'angelo, for instance a totally fraudulent pseudo academic of very limited intelligence, but serious, uh, um entrepreneurial Ability. Yeah. Um, uh robin d'angelo of white fragility fret fame Kendi a few others like this Uh, um these people's books have been sort of forced on on workforces indeed even in the public sector and uh, I say to people First of all, don't do it say no but also, um say to your say to your bosses you'd be Very interested to read these books and would your bosses be interested in reading the following books? You know, you could do a book swap effectively. That's a great one Because it keeps things open-minded it keeps read larry elder or candace owens if they really want to Exactly that if they really want a dialogue. Let's have a dialogue You don't want a dialogue. Do you know that part of the rule is now? I just read it just today. So here's a rule now When they come to your company By the way, these people are making fortunes of money these people who are running these companies that send uh, People to tell you how racist you are, but when they come to your company They will call on black employees of the company to get up and say Uh how awful uh life here in america is for them give examples and you may not speak The white has no right to respond Yeah now my my what the left is doing among many other horrible things Is creating racial tension. Oh, yeah, that doesn't exist Yeah, if they said i'm a jew if they said and you're a gay it'll be the exact same thing Imagine we will bring all gay workers now speak about how homophobic america is and you heterosexuals You cannot speak. Yeah, or All jews who work at a place get up and speak about your anti-semitic experiences and you non-jews shut up All that would do is create Anger at the group and that's what they want to do because happy people don't vote left Yes, uh, well They rely on resentment And uh that thus they need to foster resentment in order to keep getting a following By the way, i've always found this a very interesting thing because the right Very often sees the resentment that the left is playing with and thinks it can win it by playing at a different level Uh, it thinks for instance when the left does inequality that the right can respond by talking about zoning building regulations or something or specific tax issue And that doesn't do it resentment needs when it's used as a political weapon. It needs something of similar. Um cloud The right should respond to resentment but with aspiration among other things, um Doing better for yourself and your loved ones your family um and and there's not enough of this and there's all sorts of bleak things one might say about the way in which um things are starting to break down in our societies because of this because the left is running rampant with resentment and the right is Not playing something back of of equal depth um, but the resentment can be can be countered and I would suggest it should be done this way, which is to say The problem with the resentment that the left is encouraging you to engage in is that it is never ending Because we could all do it I mean, this is why I mind the privilege game and and hate it with every fiber of my being the privilege game is never ending And nobody can work out how you do it. Nobody can work out how you win it You might see somebody who's inherited millions of pounds and has exactly the the racial and sexual profile of somebody you think of as being A privileged person and their life may well be hell That's right You have no damn way of telling it even you don't have any way of telling from one hour to the next with the same person So I suggest that that all of these games that the left are playing we've got to say we've got to show They are unwinnable on their own terms And to show that this is not the way in which a happy and fulfilling life is lived You can live a life of resentment We all know people a political people as much as political people who do live lives of resentment people who? Resent a sibling or a parent or a friend or the success of a friend for instance We all know people have met people who live lives of resentment and these are thwarted lives They are unhappy lives which spread unhappiness around themselves And by contrast we should say if that is what the left is encouraging you to do We we would like to encourage you to live a better life as we see it We would like you to live a life of what I describe as the most important counter to it, which is gratitude The counter to resentment is gratitude. It is just it isn't to say look how much The world has not given me Look how much oppression i've had to force my way through in California or london or anywhere else in in the developed west. It's to say how about Realizing how lucky you are And in order to do that, of course, you need not just to know how lucky you are. You need to be shown the unbelievable Good luck of being born in a country like america at this point in history And people need to encourage you to realize it isn't just you need to recognize that you will live a better life If you recognize that you will achieve more Nobody who we know in our private lives who is a genuinely Genuinely resentful person is ever going to live a happy life and it's the same in politics she's laughing at my producer here because Virtually word for word that is what she has heard me say which is so important that It it's makes perfect sense that we would have come from totally different backgrounds in different countries to the Different generations the same conclusion if you think clearly gratitude is the mother of goodness and happiness The left doesn't want you to be either And you know, I have a great riddle. I I actually came up with a riddle. What do you call a a happy black american? a republican And that it is so it is as true as as the sun shines that that is the case so it I I look to you, especially those of you many many young viewers The left wants you to be ungrateful And it the left is giving you a recipe for lifelong misery Because if you are happy you are not a revolutionary Yes Yes, you're you're not Cannon fodder for the left's latest ideological war um It's it's just it's the single most important thing. I think we need to shift around this maybe one of the reasons we do both show this is because among other things we have a love of Music and art and religion and culture love of life. Yes And then you see and if you have these things you realize I mean that's exactly right If you have all those things what's there to complain about one of the things? One of the things that amazes me is this look what's happened in our own lifetime in the last few decades I think when both of us were growing up If you didn't have the money to buy a cd or an lp before that you didn't know how the piece of music went My or if you had a radio you could but if you wanted to search something out you right unless you had the money and I remember saving up for cassettes and then cds to find out pieces of music and um But unless you had the money to get it. It wasn't all there for you today A young person with an iphone has access to all of the music in the world Basically for free right and we just accepted that and moved on without even noticing it, right? The same thing with the world's great literature, by the way All of the great novels which again we had to either find in a lending library or buy are free to download And every young person if you if you want to hear it And so every young person has access to this and we passed by as if it didn't even register Well, you said something else earlier in my book on happiness, which I wrote in 1997 or 8 I wrote One of my chapters is you can't be happy if you don't have a tragic view of life Because I so understand How rampant tragedy is and has been? I am unbelievably grateful for What I call my answer to white privilege is you want to know privilege here are two privileges uh two parent privilege And american privilege. Yeah, those are the two biggest privileges I had. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely and If people if people could be made to understand this or encourage I wouldn't say made encouraged to understand this We would be able to do so much, you know, one of the great As it were a grievance of my own that I that I do have is I regret that we are spending these years talking about these things. Yeah, you know, it's so true I regret that we have to read the books we have to read I regret we have to have the arguments we have to have Because at this point in history with access to all of the world's ideas I know the world's music there is so wouldn't it be better to discuss what what did king leer do wrong? Right, that's that's interesting That's important. Yes I have one more item uh can we You want to do the want to do the video one? so here's a question from Uh, one of of my young viewers and uh, if you can't hear it, i'll repeat i'll read it to you Hi, my name is grace. I'm 20 years old and i'm from la And i've seen elements of critical race theory seep into all areas of my university life. So from Classes to extracurricular activities and even student leadership positions. So with how prevalent this is in our student life and our student culture um Do you see a way of our culture kind of surviving this manipulation of thought? Thank you. Did you catch that? I did It's a very good question and um The questioner is is uh at a crucial juncture in this because this is the moment when you can decide to either Go along with the flow or or not um My own view is that there are we've got to find the shortcuts for getting over this Uh, we've got the way to find the ways to sort of get through this faster And I would say that There are several examples There are several examples I give in the man's crowds, which i've been thinking of for a long time Of how to do that There are doubtless many more that we could come up with between ourselves and and viewers will be able to of their own But we've got to find find the shortcuts around this stuff one of them is um Is is to call people out on their ignorance? Um, there is a lot of stuff in the critical race theory and more where people make assertions They haven't really thought about they've just been told to repeat them Um, so ask very basic questions And you can expose uh, um The other party there's a very very fine example of this many years ago. I heard from mark stein Who uh were once on a panel and he said that shortly after 9 11 he went to look up something in the library at dartmouth and uh uh, there was a protest by some students, you know, it was sort of uh, no war and and he said that they sort of He went over to speak to them. They they were sort of saying, uh, no war. He said what's all this about? Well, no walkers, uh war leads to poverty leads to uh, uh, oppression So they'd had the whole damn thing worked out, you know, and he said to them. Oh, yeah, uh, what's the capital of saudi arabia? um none of them knew right now now I Suggest that people do this to the people who have these totalistic, you know The thing about the world is the following Tell you they're totalistic if you're like just ask very basic questions um And you'll find out how thin this veneer of knowledge is but I think young people in particular have to realize that When you hear people talking with the certainty that you hear the critical race theorists talk about they must be blagging As we say in britain, they must be making it up They don't really know and if you see it's like that thing of seeing your enemy naked You know imagining them naked in order to win Imagine just realize conceive in your mind how ignorant these people actually are That when they talk with these grand sweeps, they don't really know what they're talking about and it's quite easy You just pick out those. I had an editor Of the atlantic on my show many years ago said that america's wars were all imperialistic or since world war ii So I said What about the korean war? Which was as unimperialistic as any war ever fought in history It was purely to protect koreans from communism Half of which we did protect from communism South korea is one of the most advanced countries on earth north korea is the most backward on yeah And you know what his response was I don't know that much about the korean war right an editor at the atlantic. Yeah 37 000 americans died. Yeah Yeah, I this this story should to the young woman who asked the question that should be enormously encouraging because you you should assume That the people making these assertions don't really know that much that's so it's a very good place by the way, the other one the quick quick example the other one I give is Um always say compared to what? You just always say compared to what exactly who are you comparing us with? Because because they always then if they do have an answer and sometimes they do they'll say something absolutely more perfect union Yeah, as barack obama would constantly say that's what he compared it to they something more perfect. Yes Not to the rest of the world. No the the um Often they give away their ideological bent in this moment as well They'll say things like uh, you know We're an incredibly unequal society or something you say compared to what and they'll say well, I mean look at health care in cuba right or um, well look at the Rates of literacy in venezuela or something like this. They almost always they used to do the soviet union as you know I mean they sort of gave up on that There was no unemployment in the soviet union, yeah to which I always responded there was no unemployment on slave plantations, right, right it's these people always reveal the Ideological underpinnings, but even if they don't Do that by saying compared to what you will highlight the fact that these people believe they're driving a bus In a destination. They really haven't thought out Correct my final question Obviously we could do this For a very long time, but I want you to hear my uh audio system before you leave I trap all music lovers into this uh He's panting in anticipation. Totally totally Actually, it is a little ironic when I go up to the the room where I listen to my music. He comes with me. Oh It's the only time he does come with me because it is interesting Anyway, so I want to get to one other thing and you you hint at it and I talk about it a lot I see leftism as the uh, the culmination of the post-judeo-christian or post-christian era That at a it's a it's two things. It's a secular religion or cult more like more more correctly, I think and that without the order Of the the biblical worldview you get chaos And they I see first and foremost as a force of chaos now What's your take on that because you obviously had religion in your background. I don't know where you stand on it today What i'm curious though to get your I think there is a very deep Post-religion Factor in the chaos. We're seeing yes I I agree. I mean it's um It's because I've written before it's because our society has so many god-shaped holes um Places where god was which need filling and people fill them with bad Versions of what they think might fill the gap the void I'd say Um I agree. I think it's it's it's quite often been remarked that you know in this worldview Karl Marx is sort of the last and final prophet Uh, of course that was a view that a lot of leftists were sort of perfectly fine with for a time um The the problem is of course is the nirvana never worked out and a lot of people have never accepted that fact um I do think a great problem in our in our era. I find this particular i'm very Blessed with the fact that a lot of my audiences are very young. Um College age a lot of my readership is young. I one of the things that gives me enormous hope um and I I learned from them the extent to which We who are not of the left need to answer on equal terms The challenges that the left are making I I gave the example earlier of uh, you know things like inequality or resentment, but It also seems to me that The left has done a good job of giving meaning In a meaningless age Or at least in an age lacking in meaning uh What I write about the madness of crowds of the council culture much more comes about because of god-shaped holes You know, it's something to do It gives the day a purpose It gives the life a drive now it happens as Say to be a an ugly retributive unforgiving ugly ugly drive But it is a purpose and I do think that that conservatives Not not you and I hope not me but many conservatives have in the last few generations Forgotten about this gap and this this void and they've they've handed it over because we've You know, we have large institutions and think tanks that are dedicated to economic thinking and economic thinking is very important But it doesn't fill the void um p we have institutions we have publications and others that address specific things of republican versus democratic politics But it cannot fill the void Now the left says yes, it can this war this jihad this crusade against the right will give your life meaning And of course some people on the right might be tempted to say well, we will play that back and say that's meaning But I think we have to do better than that. We have to say no That is something politics is important. Just like economics is important, but it isn't purpose It cannot be the meaning of life because apart from anything else politicians like Like economics will let you down Um, it is an unhappy life Dedicated to using politics as a religion so we have to say what To use a rather old-fashioned phrase, but one i'm still fond of what a life well lived looks like And I have to say i'm positive and optimistic on this because I think I think you'd agree with this That the things that we have to offer and suggest never tell But suggest invite you might say people to see as being The elements of a life well lived Are a heck of a lot better And will sustain people far more And that's why people gravitate to prager you Because we do have answers to a life well lived Well, this has been uh, it's been a nourishing dessert That's that's that's my ridiculous, uh Gastronomic metaphor for the the joy i've had with you You must all read the douglas murray's works. They're truly significant They are in the best sense simple Because they are understandable My motto when I write and when I speak is I work hard so that the reader doesn't I have a feeling you do the same Well, this was a joy. I met you only through a telephone prior to this So folks a very special. Uh episode Is that the word? of the fireside chat Douglas murray dennis prager. See you next week Thank you for watching this video to help keep prager you videos free, please consider making a tax-deductible donation