To the Mothers Carrying Love & Loss | A Conversation on Grief, Motherhood & Healing

And I know, Celestine, it happens every single year. This year, I was like, why are you asking us to stand up? And when he said, mothers, stand, I remember the distance from the chair to standing. Oh, my God. I was like, Lord, I have two children. If somebody asks me how many children I have, do I say one or do I say two? And then I stood. And you know, when you're standing, others are sitting. And I'm thinking, now they're looking and they're saying, yeah, but one died. That day, I was so, I felt conflicted. I felt like I must celebrate. I have a child here on earth. And then I felt guilty because Boro isn't here to tell me about Mother's Day. I was just so lost that day. And I remember thinking, God helped me to celebrate. But this pain, you said I was going to be a mother of two. Now what are you saying? Karibu sana for Celeste's Reflection. I am your host, Celeste Ndinda. It is always a pleasure to be here. I am always eager to learn and learn and yeah, get to hear from some of you, especially when I have a guest. Like today, I have a guest with me on set. So happy Mother's Day to you all. And I know Mother's Day is a beautiful day for most. For all of us, of course, we came from mother's womb. Mother's Day is a beautiful day for all of us. But then I've seen something. Let me talk about myself. On Mother's Day, you're excited. I'm a mom. I'm a first time mom. I'm a mom of two. It's my first time being a mom of two. Or I'm a young mom, one year in, my baby's turning six. So for most of us, we celebrate it like it's all of us celebrate it. But it feels like it's rosy until a couple start going around on socials. You're like, for those who've lost their mom, this is their first Mother's Day. I know it's heavy on you. Happy Mother's Day. Or for those who've lost a kid, happy Mother's Day. We are extending grace to you. Or for those who are in, you know, different stages of motherhood. So today we are celebrating all those stages and especially the side of motherhood where it brings a lot of heaviness in our hearts because on these days when you remember your mom or remember your kid or you're going through loss, you know. Like now the other side. So that's why today I have a very important guest on set. The person I am with, most of you maybe have seen her on social media. She's very vocal about her journey. And that's why I reached out. I was a bit nervous. And I'm glad she accepted my request. And today she's seated right next to me. Thank you. How are you feeling? You said you're nervous? I'm nervous times 15. But here I am. So we are both nervous, guys. So please, mtuwelewe kidogo. But yeah, welcome, Wakiz. I want you to introduce yourself. For those who might have not seen you, for those who know you, wajue Wakiz is who exactly. Minajua Wakiz ni Mama Wams. Pass. Mama Wams and Mboro. Pass. Everyone calls me Mama Wams, Mama Mboro, Wakiz. By the way, I turned 60 last month. You look so amazing for 60. I am so excited to be about 60, but that's a story for another day. Because people are trying to tell me, you don't look your age. I want to look my age. I want to be 60. That's who I am. Don't look 60. I'm excited about it. Anyway, so I'm Mwaki. Thank you. I was a lawyer for 34 years. I retired from that environment two years ago. Now I coach people. I mentor people. I say the season in my life now is giving back from a place of rest. That's what I've been doing. But yes, Wakii is Mama Wams, Mama Mburu, and she's still Wakonyo. Ah, good. So Wakii is Wakonyo. Yes. Okay, okay. I'm so happy to have you here by the way. For the longest time, I've been wanting to reach out to you. I was a bit hesitant. I wasn't sure. Also, I think this is the right time. Yes, this is the right time. So for 34 years, you've been a lawyer, maybe not just touch a bit on your motherhood journey. A little bit. I know we cannot talk about the 60 years work is, but especially now that you're a mom to teenagers, Gen Z's, I'll call them Gen Z's. Yes. So maybe that angle of being a mom to Gen Z's. Okay, I became a mom 31 years ago in March. And... When you said mom to Gen Zs, a light bulb went off because being a mom to young children was different from teenage. And then I became a mom to Gen Zs who have their own mind. They have their own thoughts, their own ideas, which are not always mine. And I learn so much from Gen Zs. I learn and I'm okay to learn. I'm okay to not know what they know. I'm okay to listen to them. So being a mom has been the greatest gift. On my WhatsApp status, I think I shared this with you. Many years ago, I wrote, motherhood is not a right, it's a gift. It's the greatest gift I have ever received. Motherhood is not a right. It was never a right. And years later, I understood why it wasn't a right. My motherhood journey has been. I love it. Beautiful. Tell us something about your motherhood journey. Motherhood taught me how imperfect I am. Your children will call you out. And the older they get, they will call you out. And I am grateful for the two children God gave me because I say this without fear of contradiction. He gave me the best for me. And in my worst seasons, my most difficult seasons, my children were there and they were watching. And a lot of mothers, you want to hide everything about yourself from your children, they will always know. But if you have a relationship with those children, if they love you and you love them back, they're calling you out is out of love. My son one day made a statement to me, it was two and a half years ago. He said to me, mom, you're the strongest woman I know. That day I almost cried. You know, I almost cried because this boy had seen me at my worst. You know, you're on the ground. You're at your worst, worst, worst, worst. If I was to explain the things that Boro had seen me go through, for him to tell me I was the strongest woman he knew, I'm like, and I remember that day I stopped and I said, what do you mean? Boro, and I remember telling him, you've seen me at my worst. How can you say I'm the strongest? Do you know what his response was? He said, mom, I watched you hit the ground and I watched you come up. That was enough. That was enough. And I remember telling Boro that day, my work is to give you a baton. It's imperfect, imperfect. You go perfect it. So that for me was the greatest part of my motherhood that they saw me as I was and not what I pretended or wanted them to see me as. That's such a challenge because most of us moms, we hide the imperfect side of us. I don't want my Tugi to see mom failing. I don't want my Tugi to see mom crying. Like Tugi should always see mom as this. So wow, that's such a challenge. So when you say they... You're saying that they call you out. Yeah. Did they start calling you out when they were small? Or are they calling you out when they are this big? I think when they were small, they were a bit scared of calling me out. Okay, okay. Now when they're older, I have a daughter, Wams. Okay. She calls you out. Wams? And she comes out in love. And if she comes out, if she starts by saying, I want you to know I'm on your side. I know the next statements. Ah, we are going down. Downhill. But what I love about it is that it's like your children then can become a mirror to you. I'm sorry. I remember one day I had a conversation with a lady and she said, my children would never call me out. I wouldn't allow it. In a sense, I felt sorry for her. Because I said, then that means maybe there's a lot they have inside them that they cannot tell you. There's a balance. You have a boundary of your children respecting you. When you know your children respect you, you allow them to call you out. If they don't respect you, then that's when you know there's a challenge. So motherhood is again, is a balance. Raise children to respect you, but also to have a safe space to be able to tell you when they think something is not correct. And calling you out doesn't mean necessarily like. It's a bad thing. We might be discussing something. They might actually, most of the times, they have a point. A lot of times they have a point. Even the small ones, they have a point. Just that, I remember my son asked me at a time, why are you shouting? And I'm like, why am I shouting? Like, why was I really shouting? Exactly. Yeah. A problem I've always had is overthinking. And Wamushe will say, mom, you know, you're overthinking this. And I want to say, then I stop. And I realized, actually, I'm overthinking. And I hope she's not watching this because now she'll be using this against me. You see, Baba, I told you you're overthinking. Speaking. Yeah. Is there a difference on how you felt as a mom then and after the loss? Maybe you can give us a small journey because maybe there are people who, you're a mom of two, one in glory. So maybe that backstory before now we get into. Okay. Yes. On the 7th of March, 2025, my life completely changed. When I say changed, you know, sometimes they say my life has changed because I've got a new job. There is something that happens when a child transitions to glory, when your child dies. That day, I'll never forget Wamushe and her two friends, shout out to Nigel and Shiko, coming to the door and we were, you know, we were wondering, it's a long story, but we were wondering what has happened to Boro. And I opened the door. Wamushe didn't say anything. The look on her face. I remember I was, you see now I've started crying, but it's okay. I remember I was, I started walking back because I remember thinking if I walk away, what she's saying is not, the look on her face is not going to be true. And Buru had gone. And I was thinking, no. He's going to turn 30 tomorrow. He can't. We're going to spas. We're going to eat. We're going to do this. He can't go. And I remember thinking, God, you can't do this to me. You can't. And I remember coming, you know, that my mind was saying, God, I've served you. God, I've been here for you. How can you do this? And the journey from that moment on of knowing I'll never hug him again. He'll never hug me again. Boro had died. And then thinking to myself, I remember two days after that, I was talking to God. Okay, I think for two days I might have been fighting with God. One day I woke up in the night. I heard myself saying loudly, you know what, God? Boro's gone. One of two things is going to happen right now. One of two things. Either I lose my faith completely or I trust you completely. And I remember saying loudly, Lord, I choose to trust you completely. And I didn't know what that trust looked like. And when I said that, I realized that I was going to go on a journey that may not be my own. When I started posting on social media, this is how I grieve. It's not because I was feeling like I have grieved and I finished. Celestine, I was doing it because I wanted to remain sane. I said, if I don't talk about this thing, I'll lose my mind. Everyone knew how tight I was with Boro. Everyone knows how tight I am with my kids. So I remember later saying, me, the fact that I know how tight you are with your kids, I can't imagine you losing one. And then I became that person whose child has died, you know. And, you know, you walk around thinking people are pointing at you and saying, that's a mom who lost her child. And I would be like, what? This is me. And so that's how Boro transitioned to Glory. It's been a year. Um, some days I feel like I'm, I'm getting stronger. Then other days, it's like I've gone in complete reverse until I realized grief is not going to be linear and there'll be triggers, the triggers, the triggers, everything is a trigger. Even, even ketchup in the supermarket that Boro liked is a trigger because, you know, I had him for, and he's the one who first made me be called mom. Conceiving Boro was not like that. I took several months before I could conceive him until I started asking God whether I am not able to have a child. So when I conceived Boro, I remember I called my father, who is, you know, of the old school of thought. I remember I called him on the landline when I got that pregnancy test text, a message that I'm now pregnant. I called him. I said, daddy, I'm pregnant. He was so embarrassed. He went, hold on for your mother, you know, because I was that excited. That was my motherhood. And then 30 years, less than one day, God said, guess what? I'm taking him to glory. I don't know if I'll ever get over it, but I will have to continue to walk through it. A day at a time. And I love how you share your journey online. Is there... I'm sorry. No, it's okay. What's now the... Have you experienced any different feels now in the motherhood journey after the one year? Do you feel any sort of when he was, I was this kind of a mom, now that he's in glory, and this... Are the motherhood journeys different? I would say it's different in the sense that sometimes I feel like I am parenting one child on earth and another child I'm co-parenting with God. Because, you know, there are certain things I have to release. But I think what it is, is it has continued to help me know how intentional motherhood is. One day, I don't know if she remembers, but one day Wamushi said to me that, you know, mom, the thing for you that's really good is that even if you knew that Boro was going to leave us in that time, there's nothing you'd have done different because you gave all of yourself. And I think as mothers, when I learned how imperfect I was, I learned to just show up with everything that I have. Um, there are days I almost feel sad for Wamushi because, you know, on special days, I feel like she has, she's showing up for herself and for her brother and, and that just makes it so much more special. But yet just realizing that, yeah, I can't hug Boro anymore, but I can hug Wamushi. And so there are days Wamushi when she's leaving, she's asking me, mom, are your eyes watering? Are you crying? Because it's such a joy just to be in her presence because I know it's not a right. I know it's not a right and I'm so much more intentional about it because it's not a right. Every single moment you spend with any of your children is a gift and that gift cannot be compared with anything. It brings such a light bulb to my head because we're like, The thought of every single moment with that kid, so you feel like, oh my God, then maybe we should hug them tighter, more. Just keep hugging them. Hug them when they can. Discipline them when they need to be disciplined. Tell them what they need to be told when they need to be told. Because you have only a season. Give everything. Did you at some point feel like blaming yourself? Because now I'm thinking, as moms, as many moms would have said, God, why don't you take me? Why did you take this young boy? I mean, I'm 58. This boy was just almost turning 30 at his prime age. God you would have just Switched. Maybe. I have done work. I have retired. Surely that one is at the age where now we are starting. Did you at some point feel like that? You know it's funny that you say that. I remember one day. You know those honest conversations you have with God. I was telling God. I finished my career. I retired. Boro is in the prime. Why didn't you? Just kind of switch places, you know, and another regret I had, I remember thinking, and you know, every regret you have, God counters it. And I'm so, I always tell people, don't stay in the regret, look for what that counter is and God is faithful with that. And then God showed me, even during the funeral and, you know, the preparations, how Boro lived such a full life. I mean, Boro's life was so full. I don't, I know some people my age, I say it carefully, who have not lived a full life like Boro lived. And so our life. And the fullness is not determined by the years. It's determined by the impact and the quality of the life we live. We always say with my daughter how Boro lived, he lived what he wanted to live. And he never left anything back. If Boro loved you, you knew he loved you. If Boro didn't like something, it wouldn't be a secret. I remember one day saying, you know, thinking, I regret and thinking, you know, when I now left the corporate space and going into what was like a retirement, I told my children, now I'm empty nesting, you know, each of you take your room, you're not staying in the house and everything. And I remember one day sitting and thinking, I shouldn't have done that. I should have just forced my children to stay in the house with me and everything. And then I remembered that when they empty nested, Whenever Boro would come to visit, he would come, his visits were intentional and Boro's visits were Wednesday, Sunday, till today on Sunday, just before three o'clock. I sit and I wait to think if the doorbell is going to ring because it was like clockwork, 10 to three, five to three, the doorbell will ring. Boro walks in and says, hi mom, and he hugs you. One day, I remember he hugged me and I was in a hurry to sort something. He said, mommy, hug me fast. And I stopped. This is, he's about to have that. He's telling me, first hug me, stop rushing. And he would come, and because he's not living there, would sit in the sitting room and would have conversations, would speak. Before we were in the same house, he'd be in the room all the time. I'm in my room. And I realized that God allowed that year, God allowed me not to be in the busy workspace. God allowed me to be with him to be away, so that when he comes, we're sitting. That year, I bonded with Boro more than I'd ever bonded before. And I said, God, you're a God of order. So every regret I had, and I know moms, when I speak to moms, every mom has a regret. I wish I had. And I always say, what's the counter to that regret? Because every regret you have, there's always a counter. I wish I'd spent more time. What about the time you spent? I wish I'd hugged them more. What about the hugs that you did have? There's always a counter. Because guess what? And when I told myself, I cannot change that story that Boro is not coming back. What am I going to do with the time I have left here? So when I meet him, he's able to know mom lived a full life even after I left. Maybe let me tell you something, Wakiz. So I... I came for Mburu prayers at a cathedral. Was it at All Saints? Yeah, All Saints. And you've mentioned something. I had not met Mburu before, but because of worms, I came. Thank you for coming. But now you've mentioned something that I noticed. Everyone who talked about Mburu, it was very deep. Like all those friends, all those people who were talking about Mburu, it was not a shallow, shallow relationship. And people were like, this one. Even you, even you. So I can feel what you're saying. He was very intentional with his relationships. So he might have lived 30 or one year to 30, but he was full. Like, yeah, yeah, he was. I can feel what you're saying. Yeah. But let me ask, are there things that Mburu, you've said the one year, you feel like now the one year was for you to bond. Are there things that, as you normally say, his legacy lives on? Are there things that Mboru taught you that now, at your age, you're using them? I want to know, because we've already said you're 60, and Mburu was 30. And you know, we'd think, you're Mburu's mother, Mburu can't learn anything. How much life do we have? Like three days? So I tell you how much I learned from Mburu. I know. Mburu taught me that I can be the best I need to be. Mburu used to call me the queen mother. Wow. So, you know, like the Queen Mother, you know, I'd like, you know, where has that come from? And let me tell you first. Like randomly. You just randomly, you'd send me a message and tell me, thanks for the food, the Queen Mother. Okay, I used to make, I used to do like meal prep for him so that he comes and collects food from my house when he's living on his own. And you'd send a message and say, thanks, the Queen Mother. And, you know, a story I tell a lot when I'm training is that for many years I suffered with self-esteem. You know, my esteem, whatever. And then Boru would come and tell me, but see, Mami, you know, he would tell me, Mami, you know, you're beautiful. Or he would always tell me, or he would send me messages and tell me, Mami, I can still smell you. He would tell me that when he hugs me, the rest of the day he can smell my perfume, he can still smell me, you know? And he taught me to show up at my best, even when I didn't feel like. You know, there are days I'll be going, let's say I'm going to do something and I'm like, oh, I'm going to do this. This has happened. This has happened. He would say, Boru would tell me, mom, stop. I'm like, yeah, he'd like, stop. You've talked about everything that could go wrong. Let's talk about what can go right. He taught me to show up even when it's not perfect. And I'm still using it to date. The first time I went to do a training after Boru had transitioned to Glory, I remember sitting in the car and saying, Waki, are you crazy? It's been, it was like two, three months. You, you, you... Your child has died. Now you want to go and train people. You know how that voice in your head speaks. And I remember sitting there and thinking, you know, if Boru was here, he probably would have said, mom, you know, you're good at this, right? Go and do it. And I went in and in that training, there was a trigger. The people I'm training had never met me. They don't know my story. They don't know my child had died two months, you know, three months before. And we're talking about emotional intelligence. And I was talking about, pointers. And one of the people in the training, she put up her hand and she said, okay, you know, I only have daughters. And I'm wondering whether emotional intelligence is the same for daughters as it is for sons. Maybe those with sons can tell us. Celestine, you know, I thought, I'm like, my son has just died. And she said, she doesn't know. And I remember thinking, oh my God, oh my God, how am I going to respond to this? What am I going to say? But there was a strength that I know can only have come from God. And my response needed to be that life I lived with Buru. Therein was my response. The strength of my response was that I had the privilege. I had the joy of being his mom. And so I had the answer. And I said, I have a daughter and a son. And this is what I think. So I realized that Boro was still teaching me, even from glory. Show up, mom. Show up. Somebody's going to ask you about sons. And guess what? I'm not there. I'm in glory. Respond as though I was sitting next to you. He's teaching me and he's still teaching me. There's a mom somewhere who is listening, who is watching this, who feels like, I can't, I can't, like, God, you've taken my baby, you know, and okay, because of ignorance, you find people saying, oh, it's like when you, I've heard people say, never tell someone, you see, like the young ladies who maybe miscarry or. lose their young ones and someone is like I know it sounds very you feel like you're coming from a good point but it doesn't it doesn't like I'm sure it doesn't work like that but for a young mom who is going through it a young mom who feels like oh you're saying 30 years mine was just six months what can you tell that mom? First of all I'm going to say this I remember one time thinking to myself Is it the same for me and for a mom who has lost a child who's three or two? And then you know what I remembered? There's something that happened to me when I was expecting Buru that was completely significant. And I know this happens for even mothers who have adopted children. There's a connection point with that child that happens immediately. Therefore, whether your child is 40 or 30 or 20 and they transition to glory, it's still a loss. It is still a loss. It is still pain. It is, it's still, it's still a severing that you can't explain. You can be severed, retrenched from a job and I'm not belittling it. I have been retrenched from a job. You can be removed from a situation, but the child moving, it's unexplainable. And what I would say to that mom is, imagine I see you, I feel you, and I won't tell you that it's going to get better. I'll tell you that you will learn to live it. In the pain of it. Celestine, when I stopped thinking about a time I'm going to stop grieving, I realized that that was a bit of healing for me. Because I realized I will carry this thing for life, but I'm learning to operate with it. I will go and train and there's still the grief. I will be in a family function celebrating, there's still the grief. So I realized it's like I'll carry it with me because I'm never going to let it down. But now when I started doing, this is how I grieve, I began to realize that God was letting me grieve by celebrating moments. And so for every other mother, I ask every mother like me, let's grieve, let's remember also the good moments. Sometimes it's the fluttering in the stomach. When Boro started kicking, let me tell you, I never felt anything like that. A child kicking, in fact, I wish guys could get pregnant for just a week so that they can feel it with us. It's something that you can't describe. But do you lose? Is it easy? No. But for the moms out there, the greatest thing I realized was I have the privilege of celebrating. And I have the privilege. I have the privilege of having birthed two children. That privilege no one can take away from me. Not even death. When you say that you carry grief with you, are there days that, I want to understand, are there days that you can go a whole day without... Thinking of the grief, like just being in a bubble space that I am okay. I have two children, like everything is okay. Then until it hits you later, wait, Boro is in glory. Are there days you forget completely? I'll tell you so far, no. There's no day I'll forget, but there are days where I won't cry. There's a time, the first like nine months, if I didn't cry in a given day, I'd be like, but now there are days. That when I'm praying in the morning, I pray for my children all the time. And I realized that my prayers were shifting. There are days I would say, Lord, in glory, give Boro a glimpse of me. Let him know I'm okay. It's like I'm sending God with messages for Boro. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and again, I say this carefully. You know, a lot of times people tell me, you know, Boro is looking out for you. He's watching out for you. And then I would say, one day I had myself saying, you know, I'm those people sometimes when I have an aha moment, I'll say it loudly in my house. And I remember saying, I was like, but God. I don't want Boro to look out for me anymore. He did it. He did it for those 30 years, less one day. His work is over. Now I want him to rest. And let me tell you, something happened to me that day that helped me realize that when God came for Boro, it was final. Boro doesn't need to work. He was always looking out for me. Mom, are you okay? Boro would be like, hi, mom. Hi, are you okay? Mom, I'm dry sleeping in the rain. Are you home? That was his season to look out for me. Now was his season to rest. So now my prayers changed. Now I pray for Moshe, for what she's doing, for everything that's happening her day. She needs to know that every single day by the time she's going out for her day, her mother has prayed. I've covered her with the blood of Jesus. I've covered everything she's doing. And then when I'm praying for Boro, thank you, Lord, for those 30 years. Thank you, Lord, that it was a gift. My prayers started to shift because I'm parenting at two completely different levels. Are there things that you wish people? Would not have done or told. You've said something like he's looking out for you. He's watching you. And I'm thinking, yeah, that's what we tell moms. Or that's what we tell people. Like, you should do something. Because he's proud of you. He's proud of. And you've said something. You don't want him to look out for me. He did his time. Are there things people said out of not knowing very innocently that maybe next time. If someone is going through such a thing, don't. Or say this as opposed to saying this. I'm not saying that your way is right, but there are things maybe you felt like. You know, I'll say this also, that I have learned now, because I've said all the things. And now when I think about some of the things I've said myself to other people, I'm like, girl, what were you thinking when you said that? But now I understand. And so I extend grace because people mean well. People really mean well. Yeah. I remember, you know, especially as the months progressed, you know, there's a time when everyone's around you and everything as the month months progressed, people started, you know, the calls became less and people, then I used to say people have moved on with their lives and I realized that no, my life had stopped, but not everyone else's. And that's the way it's supposed to, because can you imagine if I lost Boro and Everyone's life stopped. The world would stop, isn't it? But very significantly, my life had stopped, but other people's lives were going on, but they're still showing up for me. They're still calling me. And so sometimes I would have calls and when the call would start with, hi, how are you doing? I would be like, in my subconscious, I'm like, is this, do I give a cliche response? I'm fine. Or do I say, because sometimes when I was asked, I wasn't doing well at all, you know? Or, um... And questions like, I don't know how to show up for you. And that person has come from such a beautiful place. Celestine, they've come from a beautiful place. I don't know how to show up. How do I show up for you? The truth is, I don't even know how to show up for myself. So I don't know how to tell you to show up for me. So it's a different space altogether. So now I'm careful telling somebody, how can I show up for you? I don't know how to show up for myself. Yeah. And now I can't tell you how to do it. And so I learned, I remember one lady telling me that she learned the gift of presence, of just come and sit with me. Don't ask me what I need. I don't know what I need. I want you to sit. I don't want you to be there. I want you to sit, but I don't want you to say anything. It's such a confused space that now I realize I extend grace to everyone because everyone meant well. But now I know that the moments when I was asked what I needed were the hardest. Because I didn't know what I needed. I completely didn't know what I needed. Do you want to... I remember a good friend of mine telling me, when you're ready to go to church, let me know. No pressure. You took a break from church? Yes. I didn't go to church for about two months. Not because I was angry or anything, but I was scared of meeting people. Was there shame? Not shame, but I'm very scared of you telling me, Paulette. I was scared of people, the way people would look at me. The first time I went to the supermarket, people are minding their own business. They don't know me. They don't know my story. But let me tell you, Celestine, that day, the first day in the supermarket, I'll never forget. I felt like everyone's looking at me and saying, that's the one whose child died. You know, it's all in your head. It's in my head. And my head had a narrative. So, yes, I don't know if it's shame, it's pain of, I don't know, I don't want you to pity me because if you pity me, I'll burst into tears. And I've just gathered myself together. What was the narrative like in your head? If they see you, what will they do? At that time, the narrative was, when they see me, they're going to feel woozy and they won't know what to say. And I didn't know how I'll react to that woozy. Because maybe I just cried that morning. I've gone to the shops. And then again, the first time I went to the supermarket, the supermarket, man, the supermarket was just there chilling. And it brought all these emotions. I walked past lemonades that Boro liked in the supermarket. I tell you, I stopped to look at those lemonades. Do you know what I thought? I was angry with the supermarket. How dare you continue stalking them? And Boro has died. How are you stalking them? Then do you know what I did? I stood there and I dared anyone to come and buy. Especially if you're a mom and you come and buy, I would have had you for lunch. Then after a few seconds, I said, what was going on in your head? I was like, Lord, what am I thinking? And I thought, am I losing it? Then I realized, no, this is grief. If someone had come there and bought the lemonade, I would have hated on them. And they're just there doing their shopping. But because it was a trigger, because it was something that connected me with my child, and now I can't buy those lemonades for my child again. It was going to be a trigger. So yes, I was scared of meeting people in church or anywhere for a while. When you started doing the, this is how I grieve, is it something you started like, woke up and said, today I'm going to talk about it? Or have you done some therapy sessions and someone told you to start talking about it? How did you start doing This Is How I Grieve? The first This Is How I Grieve was completely unplanned. Completely. Completely. I was in my house and I thought to myself, hey, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I'm feeling. And I picked up my phone and I recorded it. I didn't record it to post it. I did not record it to post it. And then, in fact, That Is How I Grieve, you know how usually you set yourself up, it was very poorly done because it was not planned. But I remember thinking as soon as I posted it and I listened to it, I said, it's true, Aki. And why I did it was because I had been reading about grief. Of course, I went, I've been going for therapy and I realized every single person is grieving differently. And if we ever expect people to grieve the same, then there's something wrong. I remember somebody reached out and... Tried to politely tell me, you don't think it's too soon to post something like that? Mm-hmm. And I extended grace to that person. You know why? They don't know my story. They know my story, but they don't know where I'm sitting. They don't know that this is how I'm dealing with it. And that's why it's called, This is How I Grieve. And I wish every mom, every person who has lost everybody, can be okay to zero into how they grieve. Because there's no script. You will read a book on grief. It's that person's story on their grief. But if you're looking for a 10-step way to grieve, you will never find it. It's how you grieve and learn and be okay to embrace that. That's how you grieve. But the reception-wise, generally, how was it after you put it out? Can I say it confused me? It completely confused me. I remember thinking, you know how you post something and then you don't come back to your phone. You're like, I posted it, that's it. Okay, I'm that person actually when I post, I usually don't come back to the phone. I came back to my phone. The messages, you know, online, the public were, sending hugs, the DMs, the direct messages, the messages on Facebook and Instagram, I didn't see that coming. Honestly, Celestine, I did not see that coming. There's a lady in Australia who, I pray one day God gives me the opportunity to meet her. She responded and she said, she lost her daughter seven years back. And she said, I have been stuck for seven years. I listened to you and I am finally unstucking. I cried for me and for this other mother who I don't know. And I was sitting there and thinking, if how I grieve is going to be what will help another mom, then so be it. I have gotten many friends, communities, people who I may never meet. Because we are all grieving differently. And I keep saying, and I say this all the time even to my daughter, that my pain is not going to be wasted. Boro's death cannot have been in vain. If it was for that one lady in Australia, I'm going to continue grieving the way I know how. And I can tell you for sure, it's not for that woman alone. It's for many, many other ladies and many, many other people. And I love that you've said, there's no step on how to grieve. Because especially with social media, the way that lady asked, it's too soon. Don't you think it's too soon? We've all put... It's like we have a marking scheme on how we should grieve or don't, don't, don't talk after. I don't know. There's no step. I love that you've told people grieve however you want. Of course, we are assuming as you're grieving, you have a support system that is very close. Yeah, you're getting help. But what has helped you come this far? Like from where we see your journey is encouraging to most. As you say, most of us were like, I don't know what I will do if I ever find myself in such a situation. As you've said before, you wouldn't have thought you'd be this strong person. But now you're here and you're like, I also can't believe that I've gone through this pain and I'm becoming this person. The first thing I'll say unashamedly is my faith. If I didn't believe that God has a plan for me and loves me, I'd probably have been completely broken. Even though I am already very broken because grief breaks you. But I also say a support system, going through the journey and knowing you're not alone, family will always hold you together. And then I realized that every person in my family was also grieving, Boro. You know, there's a time you think you're grieving on your own. Then you realize everyone is grieving in a different way. One of us is grieving a brother. I'm grieving a child. It is very different. It is still grief. Then learning that Life didn't And for everyone around me, therefore it cannot have ended for me, even though I'll carry that grief for the rest of my life. And somebody once said that grief is love with nowhere to go. I'll never stop loving Boro, but I know where that love is going. It's going into me showing up every single day. The days, you know, I look at something that has happened and I'll be like, I wish Boro was here to see this, you know, when his daughter was, sorry, his daughter, his sister was being admitted to the bar as an advocate. I missed him so much because I knew one of her greatest cheerleaders would have been Boro. And he would have, he would have, you know, he's like that person. So now you're this, you're Wakili this. It would have been something. So I will continue missing all that. But sometimes people tell me, Wakili, you're so strong. I don't feel strong. I feel like I am grieving openly because of how very weak I am. Because if I grieved silently, this weakness would destroy me. So do I feel strong? No, I don't feel strong at all. So every time people say, you're strong. I'm like, if you see me in my house, you know, I joked one day and I said somebody, told somebody how I would be doing something out there. I go back into my house and I'll cry for 15 minutes. And I have a daughter who can tell when I've been crying. She'll go, mom, you are crying. Yes, I was. Because I do not feel strong. And I don't say, I was looking at next month, the next month. I don't even, you know how people say, take it a day at a time? Me, it's not even a day at a time. It's a moment at a time. Because I'll be laughing about something and then I will have a trigger. The other day, I remember I was on phone, I was laughing with somebody and I was going to get an Uber from our gate and a young man, the height of Boro, hair like Boro, Posture like Boro, walk like Boro, chose that opportune time to walk past me. Do you know, everything, it's like I was up here and everything just went. By the time I got into the Uber, I was finished. And I remember I stared at that young man so long. He went to start looking at me like. Like, I don't know. I couldn't tell, I felt like telling him, why do you look like Boro? Why do you look like Boro? Why is your hair like that? Why are you wearing? The poor child was just there chilling, minding his own business. And I was feeling a sort of kind of way. So one moment I was so okay on phone. The next moment I was completely broken. So now I know it's a moment at a time. Moment. One moment. It can change in a second. Has grief changed how you feel on Mother's Day? Where? Can I tell you about my first Mother's Day? Which was two months after Boru had passed on. Two months? Two months. And I don't know, for some reason, That's the day I decided it was going to be my first day in church. And I remember I sent a message to my friend Marcy and said, Marcy, I'm ready to go to church. I asked her, should we meet in church? She told me, no, I'm picking you and dropping you. So she picked me up from home and we went to church. What I had not foreseen. The pastor was going to celebrate mothers. Mothers. And you see, and I realized that happens every single year. I know it because I was in church. The pastor says, let's celebrate mothers. Let the mothers all stand up. And I know, Celestine, it happens every single year. This year, I was like, why are you asking us to stand up? And when he said mothers stand, I remember the distance from the chair to standing. Oh, my God. I was like, Lord. I have two children. If somebody asks me how many children I have, do I say one or do I say two? And then I stood, and you know when you're standing, others are sitting, and I'm thinking, now they're looking and they're saying, yeah, but one died. That day, I was so, I felt conflicted. I felt like I must celebrate. I have a child here on earth, and then I felt guilty because Boru isn't here to tell me about Mother's Day. I was just so lost that day. And I remember thinking, God help me. To celebrate. But this pain. You said I was going to be a mother of two. Now what are you saying? So that first Mother's Day. Thank you. That first Mother's Day. Helped me realize that there's so Sorry. It helped me realize that there's so many mothers today Who aren't excited And it changed my perception of Mother's Day. And the way I see it And it helped me realize That we must be sensitive to allow mothers to celebrate because motherhood is a gift and a right. But we have to also be conscious that there's a mother somewhere who this is one of the hardest days of her life because she celebrated being a mother and then something shifted. So yes, I celebrate Mother's Day completely. But I also know that there's a pain that can come even on this amazing day. I'm so sorry. Thank you. As for the sibling, as for the other Gen Z, is there, do you feel like maybe she feels like I need to understand mom, because she's also a Gen Z is a grown up, like, mom is, I'm celebrating mom today but I need to also, do I feel like I need to play a part for Mboru? Should I tell mom Mboru is doing something, because mom? Clearly, I can see how mom is in this state There is me, then there's my sibling who is not here Do you feel like there's some sort of pressure on her? Like she tends to feel like I need to compensate? Has it changed how she reacts on Mother's Day? You know, I'm going to say this, and I hope that this doesn't get me in trouble with her after this but I will remove it Thank you. No, let's do this. I feel like... My daughter does feel a level of where she has to show up on behalf of herself and her brother. And then I say, I gave birth to a brilliant daughter because she knows me. And I think she knows, I'll say she knows me because she has a relationship with me. So I remember she sent me, she looked for a picture of her and her brother when they were young, little, and they were sitting at a table they were eating, and I was with them And then she wrote on the back, That always remember that we're happiest sitting at your table with you And then she signed off herself and her brother And I realized that she knew she was showing up for herself and her brother, not because she feels that she has to compensate for her brother, but because she knew her brother enough to know what it was he would be saying. And that really touched my heart that she knows. What her brother's face would be. And when she gave me that picture, I remember the last Mother's Day when we went out for lunch, one of the pictures that she took was Boro eating from my plate. He's got his own food in a restaurant, but he saw something on my plate he wanted. And that happened all the time. So he was eating from my plate. And so for her, I feel like sometimes she wants to remind me that this is the way he would have been had he been here. Maybe not so much to compensate, but just to reaffirm that if Boro was here, this is the way it would have been. Yeah. Wow. Marques, do you feel like there's something else you'd love to maybe communicate to a mom, maybe talk to someone, a mom? Like, do you feel there's something you really want to air out before we end? First of all, I want to celebrate all the mothers. Happy Mother's Day. Celebrate yourself. You're a great mom, even when you feel like you're not being a great mom. Trust me, I'm saying from experience. 60 years later, I know I'm not a perfect mom. I want to say to every mom, embrace the moments. Embrace every single moment you have with a child. And if your child is in glory, embrace the memory. Embrace the hugs, the moments, the beauty that you had with that child. They're in glory. God's taking care of them. And for the children who are here, take care of them with absolutely everything you have. Loving you. Thank you so much, Queen Mother. Thank you so, so much, Wakiz. It means a lot. And thank you for your time. Guys, happy Mother's Day. And I have something special for you as well. Where is it? I have a gift for you. Thank you. Because you're doing the Lord's work. I can tell you, you're doing the Lord's work. Amen. Whatever you told God, like, I want to trust that word. You said it's either you live, I live God. I either lose my faith completely or I trust you completely and I choose to trust. Whatever you're doing is evidently the Lord's work. Glory to God. I think that is a space where we don't have people who talk about grief. People, it's like there's some sort of shame. When you've lost something, when you're grieving, it's like people tend to, you're hurting yourself, you're leaving. Okay, maybe it's their grieving way, but whatever you're doing, you've taken charge, you've taken, you're saying, I'm going to use my pain and talk about it in whatever way. You've told me right now, you post and sometimes you fall on the floor. Yes. Crying. Yes. Like, you don't care. It has landed to one or two or two people. Wherever it has gone. It is out there. So thank you so much. And because of that, I have flowers to celebrate you. Thank you. Thank you. For the good work you're doing. Oh, thank you. Continue sharing the post. Please don't get tired. Even on those days that it feels hard. Even if I'm crying after that, it's okay. Please, please don't get tired. Don't stop doing it. And thank you so much. Thank you. Happy Mother's Day to you. Happy Mother's Day to you. You're an amazing mom. And can I say you're looking good. That running. We'll be running with you. Very soon. I should look out for you, but there we go. Do a run. I might be walking because I'm 60, but hey, we'll be there together. It's okay. It's okay. So thank you so much guys for watching. I hope you've enjoyed the episode until next week. Bye-bye.