Most people over 30 who try to lose fat end up in one of three traps: they lose the weight and gain it all back, they lose muscle along with the fat and end up softer and slower than before, or they hit a wall and feel like their body just refuses to cooperate. In this episode, Sal, Adam, and Justin lay out the six things the fitness industry consistently leaves out of the fat loss conversation, and why ignoring them is exactly what keeps you stuck.
The biggest shift you need to make? Stop treating fat loss like a demolition job and start treating it like a sculpture. Sal breaks down why protecting muscle is the single most important variable in any fat loss phase, using a side-by-side comparison that makes it crystal clear: a woman who loses 38 pounds of pure fat will look dramatically leaner than one who loses 50 pounds on the scale but sheds 20 of those pounds as muscle. The math on metabolism, body composition, and long-term sustainability all point the same direction.
Cardio for fat loss is the next myth on the chopping block. The guys explain why all exercise produces athletic performance adaptations, not fat loss, and why chasing cardio in a calorie deficit is a near-guaranteed recipe for muscle loss, metabolic slowdown, and the rebound. Strength training wins because it tells your body to stay strong, and that signal is what keeps the fat loss coming from the right place.
They also cover why protein and whole foods are your best dietary lever, why recovery needs to be treated as adaptation not just healing, and why cutting calories AND ramping up training volume at the same time is one of the most common and costly mistakes you can make. If you are over 30 and frustrated with your results, this episode gives you the framework to finally make it work and make it last.
CHAPTERS 0:27 Intro and MAPS Upper Lower announcement 0:48 Sponsor: Seed probiotic 1:53 Six things nobody tells you: overview 2:34 Tip 1: Protect muscle above all else 4:26 The sculptor analogy: chiseling vs. chainsaw 5:50 Side-by-side fat loss comparison 11:02 Tip 2: Cardio is not a fat loss tool 12:17 Why all exercise produces athletic adaptations, not fat loss 16:52 Tip 3: Prioritize protein and whole foods 19:49 Tip 4: Recovery means adaptation, not just healing 20:50 Why recovery becomes more critical after 30 23:36 The ideal fat loss training routine and MAPS Upper Lower
IN THIS EPISODE • When you lose 10% of your body weight without protecting muscle, roughly 40% of that loss typically comes from muscle, tanking your metabolism and setting up the rebound. • A woman who loses 38 pounds of pure fat will look leaner, be more shapely, and eat far more to maintain than a woman who loses 50 pounds but sheds 20 of those as muscle. • Muscle takes up roughly three quarters of the space that the same mass of body fat does, so adding muscle while losing fat makes you look smaller and more defined even if the scale barely moves. • No form of exercise is inherently for fat loss: cardio produces endurance adaptations, strength training produces strength adaptations, and those downstream effects determine how much of your weight loss comes from fat versus muscle. • Cardio in a calorie deficit signals the body to become efficient and shed calorie-burning muscle, while strength training signals the body to stay strong and preserve it. • Hitting one gram of protein per pound of target body weight from whole natural foods causes calories to drop naturally without the miserable feeling of dieting, and the occasional calorie overage ends up building muscle instead of storing as fat. • Recovery should be framed as adaptation: the workout is just the signal, and without sufficient recovery, all you have added is stress, not results. • During a fat loss phase, less training volume is more: the goal is to maintain muscle, not chase PRs, and the calorie deficit is already doing the heavy lifting.
All right, let's talk about fat loss after 30.
Look, there's six things that nobody tells you about
that you need to know.
We're gonna talk about them right now.
Let's talk about them.
Let's go.
I like these.
Yes, these are important things to know.
This is important for everybody.
But after 30, as you get older,
they become even more important things to consider.
And if you don't consider these things,
what tends to happen is you fail, you fail.
You either lose weight and gain it back,
which is most people,
or you lose weight and a significant percentage of it
is muscle, which causes you to gain it back.
Or it feels like it's impossible
and it just doesn't wanna work.
And so that's where we're gonna cover these things.
So the first thing we're gonna talk about,
this is the most important thing to consider
with any fat loss goal, okay?
Most people, when you think about, or when you ask them,
what's the most important thing to consider with fat loss?
They're gonna say it's the fat loss.
Like that's the number one thing.
I'm trying to lose fat.
Well, that's a given.
Obviously, your goal is to lose fat.
They would say that or the calorie.
Yeah, right, the calorie burn or the calorie deficit.
Right, right.
And it's all related to the fat, like weight loss.
I want the number on the scale to go down.
But here's the most important thing to consider
with weight loss or fat loss is to protect your muscle.
By all means necessary.
By all means necessary, protect your muscle.
And here's why.
And it's not because muscle looks great, although it does.
And it's not because you don't necessarily
need to be really strong,
although it's a good thing to be strong.
Those are all important.
But the main reason is as you lose muscle,
you start to get this metabolic adaptation
that happens in a downward way.
In other words, which by the way,
this will happen no matter what,
but you allow yourself to lose muscle.
And this will happen in a big way.
What that means is your body
is learning to burn less calories.
And part of the way that it would do this
or a big way that it would do this
is get rid of this kind of calorie burning machinery
known as muscle.
And so if you lose a significant amount of weight,
let's say you lose 10% of your body weight,
what the data shows is on average that typically 40% of that
almost half comes from muscle.
And in many cases, in some cases,
people lose more than that.
And they end up smaller, weaker,
similar body fat percentage as they had before
because they lost so much muscle.
With a metabolism now that makes it very difficult
to sustain because it's slower, it's much slower.
I always have this visual of a sculptor
with like a block of wood or a block of ice
that's sculpting like this beautiful sculpture,
picture, image, body, whatever.
And the thought of that sculptor
just taking an ax or a chainsaw to it
is the approach that so many people apply to fat loss.
And what ends up happening when you do that
is you take these big chunks out of it and you-
What are you left with?
Yeah, what are you left with?
And you end up losing a lot of the good hard work
or what you need to make this all come together.
And you're far better off using a finer tool
and just chiseling away and taking your time
and being patient.
And then something so much better will come out of that.
And I always think of that because I think of like,
that's how people go after this,
is they just, I just want to get the weight down
at all costs, whatever is the fastest way.
Well, if you just want to chisel away at the wood
and just get rid of it as quick as you can,
then yeah, a big tool like a chainsaw or ax
is going to do that.
But then what ends up, you're left with nothing
to sculpt with or a piece that you can put together.
And I think that's what happens
is I think we get in this hurry
and we get in a rush to just calorie deficit,
calorie deficit, and to your point,
right now you should be trying to preserve
that muscle that you have hopefully built
or have more than anything else.
Let me give you an example
that I think might illustrate this, right?
Let's say you had a woman who weighed 200 pounds
who wanted to lose 50 pounds.
So her ideal goal in her mind is I need to weigh 150 pounds.
And let's say there were two approaches, right?
Approach one, protect muscle at all costs.
Approach two, just lose the weight.
I just want to lose the weight, okay?
Just lose the weight approach.
Let's say she loses 50 pounds,
but let's say, you know, 30 of it is fat,
20 of it is muscle, which is not unheard of.
That's actually kind of expected if you do things
the way that people typically do.
So she lost 50 pounds on the scale,
30 body fat, 20 pounds was muscle.
Now let's say she did it the right way.
And all she lost on the scale was 38 pounds.
So she's heavier because she didn't lose 50 pounds,
but all 38 pounds was body fat.
Huge difference.
What you have is more fat loss,
a better looking body, even though she's heavier,
even though instead of weighing 150 pounds,
she weighs 162 pounds.
A lot more flexibility.
She looks more sculpted.
She's got better curves
and she's actually leaner body fat percentage wise.
There's less flab on her body.
Oh, and by the way, much faster metabolism.
She can eat way more and maintain her leanness.
I'll take that to a more extreme analogy
than you just gave,
because you gave an analogy where both cases
the person lost 30 pounds or more of fat,
but one lost more weight.
I'll give you a more extreme.
She only lost 20 pounds on the scale,
but she lost all fat and added five pounds
of muscle to her body.
And so the scale has only gone down 20, 15 pounds,
but she looks way better than the girl
who lost 50 pounds and 30 pounds of fat.
So think about that for a second.
She lost even less fat,
but because she put on some muscle
and you're talking about a dramatic difference
on the scale, that person who added five pounds of muscle
and only lost 15 pounds muscle will look better
than the girl who lost 30 pounds of fat,
but also lost 20 pounds of muscle.
What people need to realize-
So wrap your brain around that.
Well, so here's what people need to understand
about fat and muscle.
First off, muscle adds shape, sculpt, and curve.
Body fat, well, we know what body fat is,
and there's only a couple areas in the body
where we don't mind body fat, right?
The body, maybe the boobs and the butt a little bit, right?
Where we want it to jiggle.
Yeah, but nowhere, really nowhere else.
Here's the thing about muscle.
Muscle takes up roughly, maybe a little more than this,
but right around three quarters of the space
that the same mass of body fat would take.
In other words, five pounds of muscle
takes up about three quarters of the space
that five pounds of fat would take, okay?
So somebody losing pure body fat,
and even gaining a little muscle,
depending on the comparison, would actually be smaller.
And this is what people really care about, right?
What they really care about isn't the scale, weight,
it's how they look and how they feel.
And more shapely.
That's right.
Because the difference of a body
that lost 50 pounds, like you said on the scale originally,
and 30 pounds of fat and 20 pounds of muscle
looks dramatically different
than the person who only lost 15 pounds of fat,
but added five pounds of muscle.
You mean 15 pounds on the scale, but yeah.
Yeah.
No, no, 100%.
This person is not only going to have slimmed down,
but then will have some muscle development
and will have better shape, curve, firmness,
tightness, tone, all the words that we hear
that everyone says that they want, they'll have that.
This is why I like us continuing to push this message
of try and build into the body that you want
instead of cutting into the body that you want.
And I promise you, many times you'll get somebody
who has this number either on the scale
or a body fat percentage that they're not far off,
say from, oh, I'm at 25 and I just want to be down to 22%.
And I make the argument that you'll be happier
with 10 more pounds of muscle and 26% body fat
than you would be at 23% body fat and less muscle.
Yeah, you want to like reveal your muscular body.
I have this visual in my head of,
you guys know like shrink wrapping something
where you take like all the air out
and it just like compresses and it shows all the forms
versus like just losing weight and deflating.
So, I don't know, it's one of those things
that's just like, it's hard to really just define this
for people a lot of times.
Well, you can very easily, look,
you can go online very easily and look up a,
you can look up a comparison of a 200 pound,
six foot man at 10% body fat versus 20% body fat.
They look radically different, same body weight.
You can look up a five foot seven, 150 pound female
at 30% body fat, same height, same weight, 20% body fat,
put them next to each other.
Radically different, radically different the way they look.
And so, what we want is body composition.
And so, when you're losing fat in order to give you
a healthy metabolic rate, make it more sustainable,
look better, all the things that we really want,
protect the muscle.
The next thing that nobody tells you about
is that cardio isn't for fat loss.
And this one really pisses people off.
Are you watching all the comments I'm getting right now
on that post I just did?
Oh yeah, I just did, the team did my shoot
a couple days back and they just started posting
some of the videos.
And of course, we talked about cardio for fat loss.
And I know it's a controversial take on it.
It's a terrible strategy for fat loss.
And the reason why, and a point that I make in there
is that because what it turns into is this race
of how much can I cut and how much can I burn?
And that leads to a slower metabolism
and a lot of muscle loss along the way.
And then a metabolism that adapts to this high activity,
low calorie intake, which is a recipe for the rebound.
And so it's not, and I know the controversial statement
is cardio makes you fat, right?
It's like, I understand that running on the treadmill
doesn't make you fat, but the result of chasing cardio
for fat loss results in fat.
Yeah, so to be very clear, can you lose fat doing cardio?
Can you lose fat doing other forms of exercise?
Yes, you can.
But here's how you need to view exercise.
There is no form of exercise, to be very clear,
that is for fat loss, okay?
All forms of exercise induce
athletic performance adaptations.
That's how you view exercise, everybody.
So what is cardio good for?
Endurance, okay?
What is strength training good for?
Strength.
Now, now that we understand that,
let's look at the downstream effects of those adaptations.
Endurance requires almost no strength.
You just don't need strong muscles for endurance.
What you need are muscles that can move efficiently
for long periods of time.
You don't need strength, you really don't.
If you're long distance running, long distance swimming,
you don't need strong,
you just need muscles that can keep going.
Nothing wrong with that, but that's what happens.
When you're strength training and building strength,
you need muscles that are bigger
that could produce more force.
So now let's go downstream from that.
I'm on a diet where I'm cutting my calories
to lose body fat.
Which one's gonna protect muscle?
The one that tells my body I need bigger muscles
or the one that tells my body I don't need big muscles,
I just need lots of stamina.
It's the one that tells your body to get stronger.
This is why when they compare
strength training to cardio for weight loss,
both of them result in weight loss
in a calorie, sub-calorie diet.
One of them results in more fat loss
and that's strength training.
And again, it's not because strength training
is this magical fat-burning form of exercise,
it's because strength training keeps muscle.
And so this is-
Promotes a healthy ratio.
This is what we need to understand.
And so don't look at workouts
as ways to lose weight necessarily.
Look at workouts as ways to induce
what kind of athletic performance gains do I want
and then what does that mean?
Or what do I want and what are the adaptations
that lead to what I want?
Well, if I want to lose fat and keep muscle,
I should probably focus on the one
that tells my body to be strong,
not that one that tells my body
to be resilient for endurance.
So that's kind of how-
I mean, it's not even probably,
it's that you have to do this
if you're going to want to sustain this.
Just the reason why it's something
that we've hammered for so long,
why we're so passionate about it,
why I get defensive when people try and argue this
because they try and use some sort of epoch science
or something to defend this argument
of cardio for fat loss.
It's just, it ends up where this person,
even if they reach their goal through this method
of reducing calories and adding cardio and adding cardio,
I've just never seen it sustained.
No, never.
It's never sustainable.
Now, we have a brand new workout program
that we recommend to people,
especially those looking to preserve muscle
during fat loss phases.
It's called MAPS Upper Lower.
It's 40% off right now.
You can go to mapsupperlower.com.
The code LAUNCH will give you the 40% off.
In the temporary window of I've got six months
to lose as much as I possibly can,
and I can white knuckle my way through
of eating chicken salads and running every single day,
it might work in that window.
But I've still yet to meet somebody
who has that temporary goal that I go,
do you also want to stay in shape
for the rest of your life too,
or do you just want to do for this wedding
and then go back to being fat?
None of them go, well, I want to go back to being fat.
What they all say is, well, I just want to focus on that
right now, and then I'll worry about it later.
Then I'll figure it out later.
And what I always got to communicate is,
well, you do know that we're going to make this
far more difficult for us after the six months
of you don't care how to get there,
just as fast as you want,
whatever it takes to get that off the scale,
is you can go that approach.
But if you're telling me
that you don't want to get fat afterwards,
then we are setting ourselves up for a really rough time.
It's just, you know, cardio's, again, it's great for,
it's the best form of exercise for endurance.
So if you need endurance, you want endurance for something,
it's a great form of exercise.
But it does tell your body
to become very efficient with calories.
It is a manual form of burning calories.
It doesn't lead to a faster metabolic rate.
Bigger muscles that burn more calories
are actually counterproductive to a lot of endurance.
So you take a guy with big, strong muscles,
and you have him trained really hard
for lots of endurance, he's going to lose muscle.
Why is he going to lose muscle?
Because that's how you get more endurance.
That's how the body becomes more efficient
with that form of adaptation.
And so cardio plus a diet for fat loss
results in muscle loss.
That's the important thing to kind of understand.
So the form of exercise that you should focus on,
unless you have this really specific endurance goal,
but the form of exercise you should focus on for fat loss,
if you want to make sure it's just fat that you lose,
is strength training.
The next thing is diet.
We'll talk about diet a little bit,
which is rather than focusing on less food,
let's focus on hitting protein targets.
Now, add a little bit to that.
Stick to whole natural foods.
Now, you may be thinking to yourself,
but don't I need to eat less calories to lose weight?
Well, yeah.
You need to eat less calories
than you're burning to lose weight.
That's a law of physics.
We can't get around it.
It's just how it works.
So why then would eating more protein
or eating foods to hit these numbers
that you're telling me to hit,
which is one gram of protein per pound of target body weight,
how is that going to work?
I'm going to eat more?
How's that going to work?
I'll tell you.
Protein is very, very satiety producing, number one,
and so are whole natural foods.
Here's what happens.
This is what's beautiful about it.
You hit your protein targets from whole natural foods,
eat the protein first,
your calories are going to drop naturally.
You're going to feel like you're not under eating.
You're not going to feel like you're dieting.
Fat loss becomes much easier.
Oh, and by the way,
the protein helps with the muscle.
It helps preserve the muscle.
And by the way,
if you are doing all the things that we're saying,
lifting weights to preserve muscle,
hitting your protein take,
and you accidentally go over by three or 500 calories.
Just more muscle.
More muscle.
Okay?
That's the part of this that people don't get.
If the priority is protect muscle,
and strength training is the cornerstone,
and you eat whole foods,
and you eat a protein,
and that's 95% of the way,
and that 5% you slip up every now and then.
You have the extra glass of wine,
or you eat out of bounds a little bit.
You are not going to get fat from that.
Those extra surplus calories,
that once in a while is going to end up building muscle.
And it's going to end up working in your benefit.
This is when you have that approach.
It's such a better state.
Now flip that on the person
who has just been cutting calories at all costs,
running on the treadmill like crazy,
and then they eat out of bounds for a day,
under protein,
strength training is not the cornerstone.
No muscle building signal.
No muscle.
You're storing fat.
They store fat.
That's right.
That person can't get away with that 300, 500
extra calorie day that they should have done.
There's no signal to move it to muscle.
That's right.
And so, huge difference.
That's right.
This is why this is so important,
is because in the context of the real world,
and very few people are in a diet,
like a competition athlete,
where they measure weight,
track everything,
and they're perfect.
They have these days
where they have this little bit of fluctuation or extra.
And hey, when strength training is a cornerstone,
and you're hitting your protein intake,
and those extra calories tend to go to good,
tend to help us out.
That's right.
But when you are running on a treadmill,
eating 1,200 calories to lose weight,
and you've been doing that for three or four weeks,
and then you have a day where you're just like,
oh, it's just so difficult.
Evan, I'm going to eat the big box of candy,
or the popcorn, or have it.
Guess what happens?
Yeah, you gain body fat.
Gets stored as body fat.
Totally.
Huge difference.
The next thing that nobody tells you
is that another big consideration
around this whole process is recovery.
But I'm going to call it something a little different.
I'm going to call it adaptation.
Because when I say recovery,
what people tend to think is,
I need to heal from the workout that I just had.
So now I'm recovered, I'm going to go.
That's not really what we're looking for.
What we're looking for is adaptation.
What we're looking for is,
is your body making itself more resilient
to the stress that you've placed upon it
with your exercise?
That's what we want, right?
If I'm strength training,
strength gains are an adaptation.
If I'm doing cardio for endurance,
endurance is an adaptation.
So recovery needs to be a very strong consideration.
Because the signal that you send with your workout
means nothing if you don't give your body
the time and the ability to adapt.
All exercise is,
if we take out adaptation, recovery is stress.
All you've done is added stress to your body.
And what does stress without recovery
and stress without adaptation look like?
Breakdown, hormone profile goes to crap,
and you feel horrible.
So this is a very, very strong consideration.
And there's a few things around that.
Go ahead.
Oh yeah, just saying,
especially in this age category,
as you get into your 30s, it changes a lot.
Like you realize how important recovery
and how intentional it all has to be
and even scheduled out.
And you're focusing on actually getting
those solid eight hours of sleep
or being able to eat in a way that's recovery-based
and have that active recovery in between.
All those things are such a huge consideration
to be able to move forward.
Yeah, there's a couple of things
that reason why we need to understand
why recovery becomes,
recovery is always important, by the way.
I don't care what age you are.
Recovery and adaptation are key to getting the results.
That's where you get the results, right?
But as you get into your 30s,
your body becomes a bit less resilient.
Not a lot less resilient,
not until you get into your late 30s,
but it is a little bit less resilient
than it was when you were in your 20s.
But you also have, typically, in your 30s,
way more of the stress.
More responsibility.
Way more of the responsibility.
It just sneaks in there.
Yeah, you know, you're in your 20s
and you go to bed late,
well, you know, real late one night or whatever.
It's like, oh, cool, tomorrow I'll just sleep in.
Or I'll take a nap.
Or I'll do something like that.
You know, when you get in your 30s,
you might have kids.
Look, I have kids.
You know what happens with kids?
It doesn't matter what time you go to bed,
they wake up early no matter what.
So you gotta get up, you gotta be up.
You might have more bills.
You might have a career now
that's more stress on your body.
So your body just is dealing with more.
And so recovery and adaptation
become a stronger consideration
as responsibilities start to pile on.
Well, that being said,
this is, and if protecting muscle
is one of the cornerstone things here,
that also includes the way
you approach your strength training.
Because if we are in a caloric deficit
and we're in this process of trying to lose fat,
then the mistake that I see a lot of people make
is this is also when they start ramping up intensity
and ramping up volume in their strength training.
We're just trying to keep the muscle at this point.
We're not trying to increase the intensity.
And so this is where this can go wrong
is where you have someone who decides to go on a cut
and you're cutting calories,
and then they also decide to add days of strength training
or add a bunch of sets or be circuit training.
At this point, less is more.
We just wanna keep the muscle
and we don't wanna add a bunch of more stress to this.
It's just there's a nice balance.
And so that recovery process,
because you don't have the extra calories
to recover from that higher intensity,
higher volume program,
so you need to consider that,
that, oh, I'm in a diet and a deficit.
This is not the time for me to be chasing PRs
or adding a bunch more volume or intensity to workouts.
This should be what I should be maintaining.
Let the diet do the work.
So if someone is listening right now
and they're relatively healthy and they're dedicated
and they're like, what's the perfect routine
with what you're talking about?
I wanna burn body fat.
I don't wanna lose muscle.
I wanna look good.
What does my work routine look like?
I'll tell you right now.
Four days a week strength training,
no additional cardio except for steps
at 10,000 steps a day.
The program that we have,
and this is a moderate to high volume
strength training program.
So if you're a total beginner,
this is gonna be too much for you.
But if you're working out and you're like,
I wanna, I've been working out for a little while.
I wanna get these results.
What do I follow?
MAPS Upper Lower is the program.
It's a brand new program.
It's a bodybuilding split.
It's four days a week in the gym.
It's pretty much all you need for workouts
aside from just trying to stay active on a daily basis,
which I said was steps.
Hit your protein targets
and you're gonna get phenomenal results.
So it's mapsupperlower.com.
It's 40% off right now because it's a brand new program.
So if you use the code launch,
that gives you the 40% off.
You can also find us on Instagram.
It's mindpumpmedia.