Jerry Foley of Giant Insider Previews Giants Training Camp | 998

Hello and welcome back to Talkin' Giants. Presented by the Fanatic Sportsbook, today is July 23rd, 2026. And we had Jerry Foley of Giant Insider on. Holy smokes, who would have saw this coming if you're an early Talkin' Giants listener? I thought they hated each other. Well, we don't anymore. How do you like that? We're squashing beefs. We're loving everybody. Everybody love everybody, Will Ferrell says. What movie is that from? Everybody love everybody. This is a bad job What's the ping-pong movie that he does? He does a ping-pong movie? This is awful. This is awful. Everybody love everybody. Come on, Will Ferrell says, and I haven't seen the movie. Sean, how are you? I was doing well until you just hit me with that, because now you're making me paranoid. I know all his sports movies. I don't remember him doing a ping-pong movie, but okay. Yeah. Table tennis? No? No. There's a Balls of Fury, but I don't think that's Will Ferrell. Maybe, maybe not. We had Jerry Foley on of Giant Insider, and we had a great conversation. We had a great interview, basically serving as a little bit of a training camp preview. Oh, yeah. It's the appetizer, man. That was a little fried calamari with Jerry Foley. It was great. Giant Training Camp is going to be in session next week. The veterans are reporting on the 28th. I think there's going to probably be a practice on the 29th that is not open to the public, and then there's going to be a run of three practices that will be open to the public. July 30th, July 31st, and August 1st, all coming to you from the Greenbrier Resort in West Virginia. I'm going to try my best to get my ass there, at least for the first three practices, Sean. I think that would be great. I think watching you pound Greenbrier, West Virginia, hot dogs, I think would be awesome, and I think just being in the mix and feeling it out and seeing what's up, because it's certainly going to be a different kind of vibe to Giants Training Camp. Very secluded. As we found out from Gary Myers, it wasn't even a John Harbaugh idea. It was something that was already in the works, no matter who the head coach was. Gary Myers likes to say things to me before we record, and then publish them on Twitter two weeks later. Is that what happened before the Gary interview? That's what happened. I'm like, oh, this is top-secret information. It makes sense, too, knowing that the World Cup was going on, and they were doing all of that construction. What I just assumed was they were probably always going away for camp. I assumed Harbaugh had picked the Greenbrier, but clearly he didn't. I also presumed that Harbaugh came in and said, this needs to be upgraded, this needs to be upgraded, that needs to be upgraded, which Gary Myers is making it seem like those upgrades to the locker rooms and the cafeteria and the weight room, that stuff was already going to be done to begin with, but it kind of was reported initially that that was a Harbaugh initiative. Well, I think two things are true. I think they were going to do them anyway, but I think what happened was when they were hiring Harbaugh, they had Harbaugh have more of a say on the blueprint exactly how they were going to change things. You know what I mean? Okay. Because I'll tell you what, man, they really, have you ever been in the locker room before? Yes. I went there, I was there once, when right after Daniel Jones tore his ACL, they did the heart of a giant thing, which I'm honored to be asked to be part of that. We were the first, quote unquote, media source to put out Daniel Jones walking after his torn ACL and that clip went viral. I didn't realize it was worth, it was worth going. Yeah. It sucked. Locker rooms sucked. It was nothing. It was nothing. Yeah. They're going to make it very state of the art, which I hope they should, like they should. And I think a little, little stuff like that does matter. You know, especially when you look at the NFL PA report cards and stuff like that, the stuff like that, I think does matter to an extent of bringing guys here for you and say, I think it puts a little icing, you know, a little cherry on top because of course the money means the most stuff. Yeah. Real quickly, giant locker room, what people will never know about. And you go inside that facility, they have something incredible that I hope they keep and upgrade, which is you can pee in their urinals and the urinal will tell you how much more hydration you need. Oh, you know, I don't know if I pissed when I was there. Oh, I did. And yeah, it measured. I, it turned out I was very hydrated because I was drinking water. Good for you. Championship hydration levels. You know, that tech, that Texas Longhorns show that they had. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, I am. We got that. We got that posted up in the John Boy Media office. Yeah. The Texas Longhorns, Texas Longhorns hydration. I love that. That's so good. That's so good. All right. So again, we had Jerry Foley on a giant insider talked a bunch of things, training camp, a bunch of like position battles, a bunch of like niche things to got me all fired up about where J.C. Davis is going to play in a bunch of stuff like that. So, uh, hope you enjoy the conversation. We're going to do a five Oh, after the interview as well. So make sure you stick around for that. But before we bring it, uh, bring on Jerry Foley, I got to talk to you about Warby Parker. This episode is sponsored by Warby Parker sport. 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If you need glasses and then you get yourself some sunglasses and you're cooking that's 20% off any additional pairs. When you purchase one pair at w a R B Y parker.com slash giants. Now a sentence that I thought I would never say here's Jerry Foley of giant insider. All right. We welcome inside talking giants. Our guest on today's show, Jerry Foley, giant insider. And Jerry, before we get going, there's very apropos because as I introduce you currently in front of me on TV, on the NFL network is the final drive with one 21 remaining. As I say this in John Harbaugh's coaching career at the Baltimore Ravens, that is the game being aired here. So I'm going to watch the end of Harbaugh's reign as Ravens coach and pass the torch as Jerry Foley joins us now, Jerry, let's go. Welcome on in Harbaugh excitement, training camp, ready to go. What are your feels? Uh, so that was the first time a missed kick went our way in a really long time. So I was pretty psyched about it. I think you talked about that on the fan on the show. Yes, of course. So listen, I remember that and you nailed it and that's actually true. Um, I feel great, man. Look working for giant insider. I'm obviously a fan. Um, I'm, I'm stoked about Harbaugh and it's funny because, you know, even Ravens fans will say, what do you think? And I just said, guys, we're professional again. I just want to get professional, right? I just want to go into a season where the, you know, it's not over by Columbus day. So I feel really good. I'm psyched. I like the culture he's bringing. So what else can you say right now, man? Yeah. Even Ravens fans, like they'll tell you, Oh, you're going to regret this. Like, what am I going to, what am I going to regret? Uh, not being able to get out of the divisional round. And okay. So my coach has, maybe has a problem of winning games in the fourth quarter. If you want to know what he does half the time too, he kicks the crap out of teams. That's why the Ravens, I think that's why the Ravens sometimes have problems in the fourth quarter. Cause they, cause they have like a propensity to get leads. Can I stop you? Can I just say, can I use the wrong word? No, I just want to say something that we hope we say a bunch this year. Touchdown Calvin Austin, but continue. Nice. Yes, absolutely. I have him winning the slot by the way. I hope he wins the slot position and starts there. Yeah. I mean, look, Ravens fans for the most part have been like, they kind of look at it the way, you know, Eagle fans even look at Andy Reed, like it just ran its course. It doesn't mean he's not a good coach anymore. It just, it was time to move on. Right. So Andy Reed goes on and he has all the success he had with the chief. So most Ravens fans kind of, they, they get why we hired him and it's, you know, yes, they do complain about the blown leads, but I know it's overused, but culture builder, it's, that's important to us. And like you said, what are we going to miss, you know, over the last, what, 10 years that we've had here? Like, come on, this is such an improvement. No doubt. And so on that note, let's get into what the story of, of this past weekend became, which was Cam Scadaboo doing backflips. Now, before we get into whether we care or not, just to tie in the Harbaugh part of it, Harbaugh did join Banks and Papa on that Believe in Giants podcast and mentioned that he had not yet spoken to Scadaboo. He did make a joke in typical Harbaugh fashion about, you know, you got to stick the landing, but this is what I like about Harbaugh. And I, you know, Jerry, I don't know how you feel about this. He says he didn't speak to him yet, but that's code for, I'm going to speak to him. I'm going to speak to, I'm going to keep things in house, but I'm going to give the public a little bit of a joke. Like it's no big deal to me. So that we just kind of keep, you know, the bloodhounds away here in terms of people who are in the locker room, going to drill them on that. That is part of the professionalism of what John Harbaugh brings to the table. And just knowing that like little things that in the past could have become big controversies, you know, so-and-so says this about Scadaboo doing this, he completely nips in the Yeah. And I feel like David would have said what backflips I didn't even say, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, right. You know, the pizza over the backflips. Exactly. And Joe judge would have been like, yeah, I'm going to sit him for the first four games. Like, like I think Harbaugh's handling is the right way. I saw the interview with popping bags. I thought it was great. And look, man, I have gray hair. So you guys know, I was not, I don't approve of the backflips, right? Like older guys, it's just, we're just like, dude, listen, have fun, build your brand off the field, but please the backflips. It is what it is. So, but this is what you get with Scadaboo, right? It's kind of like what you're getting, what you used to get with Shockey, right? You kind of have to take in some of that off-field stuff. Now the Scadaboo stuff, off-field is nothing like what Shockey's was where he's talking about, like, I don't know the mom and the twins or whatever that interview was years ago. So that's, this is a way different. This is just Scadaboo's a little out there. So I think Harbaugh will handle it. Like you said, man, I think he's going to handle it the right way. I, I trust him again, so much more than, than the guys we've had here, like Shermer and, and David would have been like, oh, no, it's no big deal. And Joe judge probably more leaning on, you know, some type of punishment. So this he's handling it the right way. I think. Yeah. I, I almost want to like ask you, do we actually, I really don't care. Like where are you at on, on the care meter of like, oh my God, you really can't be doing this. This is terrible. So do we actually care on a scale of zero to, you know, I'll feel, I'll feel the rest five. I care enough to be annoyed by it, but I'm not, I'm not losing sleep over his back flips. It's just, I kind of like, I think that I think him falling down actually may help him not do it again in a weird way. Oh, I like that take Jerry. Let me ask you, I felt this way about the back flips. We had Justin on the, with me and Tiki on WFA and on Sunday from fanatics fest. Here's the reason I had an issue with it is that I would have had an issue with it if he wasn't coming off deep, like broken ankle. And I think that's what, that's what bothered me more than anything. When I first watched that, that took me 25 seconds to even remember that he was rehabbing for an injury while I was already annoyed by it. So you look, I think the five is the perfect thing. It's not a big off the field issue, but dude, if that was, um, I don't know if, if that was Jermaine Illuminor doing that, I would have been annoyed as well. So it's just enough where we have scars as giant fans with back flips and David Wilson, even a little JPP, I can't take it. And what is the reason for even doing it? Yeah, exactly. And like you said, coming off the injuries, just not smart, man. Like I know you're excited. I know the fans are all pumped. If you pump your fist, the fans are going to be just as excited as if you do a back flip, dude, they don't care. They just care that you're there. So look, please don't do it again. I think falling may have helped us in a weird way, but we'll see where it goes. I just, I don't want to see that anymore, but I'm with you. It's a, it's a five out of 10, but please, I don't want to see Yeah. What do we, what do we make of this rapid port report? The back foot launched by cam schedule nearly forced someone to call the giants brass door in the summer. I don't know. I don't quite understand the like call them about what, I mean, and that lets me know that it's something maybe catastrophic, but also it's not catastrophic. I, I listened to Jerry and I know we're interviewing here, but this is the way I interpreted this and the way I understood this, Justin, from what we gathered, it was that nothing catastrophic happened, but had it happened, they would have had to get a call from fanatics fest that camp scataboo just messed up. Then that's nothing. Then that's nothing. It is nothing. It is doing a paid television hit where that was the story to come out of fanatics fest. It's not actually a report. It's just saying this could have led to something bad. Okay, great. But to your point about David Wilson, when he first did it, I remember it was like a big thing on, on, you know, Francesca brought it up. Justin said, we have to talk to him. That's not how we do things here. So, you know, it was a big deal back then and all these years later, it kind of hasn't changed. So yeah. All right. Stories and players actually talk football. Cause let's go, let's go stories and players. You are watching most in training camp. I'm kind of, it's very open-ended. I'm going to kind of let you take it and run with it. And we'll chat about it. Yeah. You know, it's weird. I'm, I'm rooting for the guys who, who everyone has written off. I'm rooting for Tate banks. I want to see if he can do anything under Denard Wilson and with Harbaugh. Right. I want to look, I'm looking at like drew Phillips because everyone's kind of just, you know, in the slot, they don't know who's going to win that one. Right. Some of the younger guys don't laugh, man. But like, I want to see if Jalen high, like, I don't, I don't think he will. I don't think he's going to make the team, but like, I just want to see how his camp goes. I want to see these guys who are on the bubble, but are just like, have been written off. Right now, one guy, I was thinking about this today, one guy that I'm not, not as excited about as I should be. And it's Arval Reese. And it's because it's only because I was so amped for Abdul Carter last year. And that's the guy I wanted. I was like, I sold it. Look, I don't, I don't watch every college game, but I saw the Notre Dame Penn state game. And I'm like, that's the guy. Oh my God. That's the guy I want. Then we got him and I was so pumped. And then he had such a ho hum year till the end that I feel like I'm transferring that to like Arval Reese where I'm like, all right, let's relax. Like, let's not get too amped about Reese. So I'm looking at a lot of the bubble guys, some of the new guys, and I want to see if Mooney wins, you know, the second receiver job. So it's, it's the positions as much as I am the guys, but I want to see if what Carball can do with some of these guys who have just been completely written off. Now, look, I don't want to go on and on, but I'm psyched about Isaiah, likely all these guys they brought in, but I want to see, you know, the banks of the world and see what happens with them. If there's any hope left. Okay. So of all of those guys, forget special teams, because we know banks is going to contribute in the kick return spot. When I think of a Jalen Hyatt, even Evan Neal and Josh Azudu on this team coming back and of course a bank of those four guys. And you're talking about, you know, you want to see what they do under horrible. Who do you think contributes the most on either side of the ball to the giants? Of those four, I would have to go with, I would have to go with banks, but if there was an injury at guard, I wouldn't be surprised if Azudu made it, because I think they know to keep Azudu at guard. The problem with Azudu was they kept putting him at tackle. I'm not saying he's an all pro guard, but he's definitely meant for guard more than he is tackle. So I think banks has the best shot of the four of them. Yeah. And the crazy thing with Azudu is I think they're going to continue to run them out of tackle or there's also JC Davis. So I, okay. So now let's pivot. Let's pivot from that. Let's keep tape banks to the back of our brain, but I want to pivot to this. As I say, it likely makes an insane catch at the end of this game. Insane catch Isaiah. And guys, I'm sorry if I gave you a bad, it like you're like, really? He's talking about banks and Hyatt, but like that's no, okay. This is what training camp is really. Yeah. I like that answer. Cool. Yeah. So this is really important because obviously there's Marcus bow. That's going to be your swing tackle. Right. It's going to be your swing tackle. You have filet leg, uh, as your, your swing guard. And then you have, uh, Patrick Lucas, Patrick, as I think you're going to be your backup center. Those are the guys that are like set in stone. They're probably going to carry anywhere between nine to maybe even 10 offensive linemen. I kind of think they should because of the amount of young guys that because of the two rookies that they're going to have in JC Davis and Moe Noah. Right. So they're approaching JC Davis right now, at least from the spring, I think he's lined up more at tackle than guard. And I, you know, Hey, you know, I'm not saying I'm smarter than the football people, but I would put JC Davis at guard. I don't think he has the to survive a tackle. So that basically means Jared, that there's one, if JC Davis is long-term futures at guard right now on this team, there's one backup tackle. There was one. Yeah. And that, but then also you have a Zulu who I think would be the next best option and the versatility that he has a tackle and guard. I think that may actually even open up a roster spot for him. Yeah, it might. And I'm, I'm okay with him being the fourth tackle. He can't be the, he can't be the third tackle. He can't be the first one in. Right. So Marcus bow was a pleasant surprise last year. It wasn't surprised. I mean, he, he dropped a bit in the draft to drop a little lower than they thought he was going to go, but yeah, JC Davis, look, I excited about him as well, but it, it, the offensive line is funny now, man, because it's, it's not just average. It's an above average unit that can be very good and Malin Noah coming in. And you know, if there's a rookie that I'm pumped about, it's Malin Noah and listen, man, I'm not going to lie. I wanted Caleb downs, right? I wanted, I wanted strength at the middle of that defense, but then they draft Malin Noah and you see everything he does and his attitude about Jackson dart. And, you know, really the upgrade of Malin Noah over Van Roten is massive. Right. And then the, the, you know, the steadiness of Illumina coming back, like, look, the offensive line can be powerful, can be very good. And I think, I think, listen, man, it's been a long time, but I think it'd be a top 10 unit, but you're right. The third, well, the first tackle in is Marcus bow. And then you're one injury away, perhaps from Zutu, which is a little scary, but I don't know, man. It, it seems like they're, you know, every team is thin and a lot of places it is what it is. So I don't know what else you can do about it. Now you mentioned that was the draft pick. You were most excited by afterwards. We have had a big theme for the Giants off season. Justin and I've talked about it plenty with adding the size, whether it's Patrick or guard, obviously Moe, you know, uh, you've mentioned Arvell Reese. You kind of didn't have that up there, but they're gonna be a big team. They're going to be a more physical team of all the additions between draft and free agency. Who do you think has the biggest impact on the Giants? Forget being excited. Biggest impact. Isaiah likely. I think so because you're going to move them at tight end and, and, and he's going to play in the slot as well. I think I wrote an article about it too, man. Maybe, maybe I heard you guys subliminally. I apologize if it was just, if I copied it. Oh, please. I love this. But it was just, it was just, it was like, man, we just went from, you know, Wanda Robinson to Isaiah likely and Malakai fields. Right. And Malakai field is going to get another guy. He's going to get a shot. It's not, they didn't trade up for him just to like sit him on the bench and be Ramsey's Barton. Right. So look, I, I think, I think likely overall, because of the, because he can kind of play, he'll play in two spots, maybe even a little bit on the outside here and there. I think likely it's going to make the biggest impact on this team. Likely as a lead blocker to something that you bring it up, all the different roles that he can play. You know, man, Ricard as a lead blocker gets the excited. I think likely as a out in space that are, I don't know how you feel. You probably don't feel that great about him in line, but what the Ravens and John horrible did well, like in his development, you know, they, they took him in the draft and it's like, all right, well, great. You know, the Ravens took Isaiah likely in a team that already had a lot of tight ends. You know, they're going to ask him to block. How is that going to fully look? What's his role going to be? And then man, like, damn, they, they found a role for him out in space as a mover. And that's how he could contribute even on plays where he's not getting the ball in his hands. So all these guys that we're talking about, all the second chance guys will even put a, put a bow on that. All these second chance guys. This is what you're signing up for with, with John Harbaugh. You're looking for the Isaiah likely type of players, the guys that maybe you look in the draft to be like, what's his role going to be in the NFL. Does he even have a role in the NFL? Cause he seems like a one trick pony. He made something happen with John Harbaugh. I think like to Travis Jones, how it took him a couple of years to fully break out from Yukon as a high, as a, like a second, third round pick that finally happened. And he's turned into a really quality NFL player. Like I think of Darius Alexander. So how can he turn some of these guys that it's he's done it in Baltimore. This is what we're signing up for player development. And if guys can kind of really break out, I think physically, but then also mentally like him coming in here immediately saying we're only going to keep guys that love football. So then at least fans like myself, like I'm sitting back being like, well, what's Evan Neal? What's Jalen Hyatt? What's Deontay banks doing here? We feel like those aren't guys that love football, but at least to your point, they're going to be given the opportunity to prove how dedicated they are. What's their work ethic like? And can they actually turn it around? Cause some of them have the talent. And it's going to be fun to watch for Cardley blocking for Scott or Tracy, right? So, I mean, it's just, they're going to be a run game. This line is even, I think it should be better than last year. If they all stay healthy and talk about the most indispensable guy on the giants, it's Andrew Thomas, right? So he has to, he has to stay healthy, but record coming in as well. They're just bigger. Now, like you said, man, they're, they're a bigger team. They should be, you know, power team. So it's kind of getting back to like, you know, my heyday, like the eighties and nineties watching this team play. So again, with, but except with a quarterback, a, you know, that can, that can do a lot of things and not just be a statue in the pocket. All right, let's do a Sean. I'm going to jump you here. All right, let's do some of this. Cause now my brain's going and I, my brain I'm I'm like training camp brain right now. Cause I'm thinking, okay, JC Davis, where's he going to line up? Are they going to put them at tackle? Are they going to put them at guard? Cause I think his long-term future is at guard. That's something I'm looking out for. I'm looking out for Malakai fields is Malakai fields going to get any slot snaps? Cause I think he can be like this big slot in the NFL, kind of like Isaiah Hodgins, kind of like Isaiah Hodgins. You mentioned slot corner, like Greg Newsome has the potential to maybe play slot corner, even though he's kind of openly said that that's not something that he prefers. So little niche training camp, stuff like that. Are there things that's like on your brain, whether it's stuff that I talked about or even something that's new and different? It's the battles on like the, the, the four key battles for me are, and it's funny cause it's kind of similar. It's outside corner slot corner, outside receiver slot receiver. Those are the four, I think that are completely up for grabs. I wish safety was a little more up for grabs, but it's not right. So that it is what it is. It's Holland and Newman and I, I still have faith in Newman, but we'll see what happens there. But I think Newsome can win the outside, the slot. I think Drew Phillips has the inside track. And then at receiver, look, it's, I like the approach of just throwing as much against the wall and seeing what sticks with at receiver. Like let's just sign everybody and then see, you know, who's going to make this team. I think Odell has a shot. I think Odell has a shot to get playing time. I don't know if he's going to win any positions, but he could be the fourth receiver. You know, Darius Slayton doesn't get anybody excited. So like, I'm really hoping Darnell Mooney wins the outside, right? Like I've had, you know, Darius Slayton's a great locker room guy, but just enough, man, like enough's enough. I've just, I can't. Be careful what you say on this show about Darius Slayton. Okay. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry. Justin might stab you in the back. No, look, he's a good guy. He's a good, he's a good guy. I agree. Great guy. I'm done with him. It's just, yeah, the inconsistency, man. And that, whatever. Okay. Sorry. I don't want to get into that. So anyway. It's all good. It's just, there's two, there's two people who love that contract. Darius Slayton's agent and Justin Pennock. Okay. All right, cool. Hey, listen, I hope I'm wrong. Like I tell everybody, dude, I hope, I don't want my negative predictions to be right. So I have, cause I have an ego. I want to be wrong. Prove me wrong. Right. But you know, then, and then like you mentioned him, Darius Alexander, like his comeuppance, right. Can he, can he be reliable on that defensive line? You know, can he, can he, you know, do anything? Can he become what they hope he can? And you know, it's funny. I, one of the scouts that, that drafted him, Brendan Proffitt, I went to high school with him. We graduated together. So one of the guys with the Giants, it was his guy. So I'll, I'll text him like you're watching Alexander friend. So anyway, it was a story about it. So I'm like breaking anything here, but he, that was his guy. So you mentioned the four camp battles and then you just mentioned the inside track here. So if Justin's the Darius Slayton stand on the show, I'm the Drew Phillips stand. Okay. Like, yeah, I really think that's a good football player. The way he plays downhill. Yeah. There's a size mismatch at times, but like to his tenacity and everything, if he is in a fight for nickel corner, who was he exactly in that fight with? Good question. So it could be Newsome and I listed them and I had a Kyle in my column. So you have, I mean, it's funny that Darius Washington, you do count him. Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. That's the other one. Our Darius. Absolutely. Our Darius Washington. Totally. Yes. Our Darius Washington. I think Newsome. I think Colton hood. I think Colton hood could be battling there as well. Right? So I think hood, they're going to try them in both and see what he can do. But I think Holt's going to, I think who's going to be in play. It's just funny that we've coronated a Debo on one side and yes, he's, he's probably winning one of them, but it's like, it's only the giants would only giant fans would feel like a Debo is coronated, but really I would like to see it all up for grabs and see who kind of shakes out. But no, I think, I think Washington, I think it'll be in play as well, but for, uh, with Phillips, I like Phillips too. Um, Sean, I just, he's just too handsy down the field. It's the pass interference. It's just, he's got to clean it up. And he's, but I think Justin, before we went on, Justin was saying he had so many, what tackles for losses, right? Yeah. He's a solid tackler. Yeah. On a team that misses a million tackles, you know, but that he's sure in at least that yeah. The funny, the crazy thing about Drew Phillips and I'm giving, I'm giving stuff away for, for a series for a short series I'm working on, but the crazy thing, there's such a dichotomy in Drew Phillips, right? Cause there's the good. And then there's the bad. Yeah. I just defined dichotomy. There's I'm using it on our podcast. There's the fact that he had 12 passes defended, which at one point he was even leading the league in PDS, right? Yeah. Uh, he makes plans on the football. He has nine tackles for loss, which led all cornerbacks in the national football league last year. Uh, and it's rarely there. I've been looking, I've been trying to look, uh, I think, uh, Ronde Barber had one season of, of 10 plus tackles for loss. Uh, Hilton of the bangles is another cornerback that had 10 plus tackle for loss. He actually is like the best in NFL history at it. Uh, yeah. Mike Hilton from the bangles. Um, you have Antoine Winfield, the father, uh, who had like one or two seasons of 10 tackles. So it's pretty rare among corners and Drew Phillips, even in his rookie year had seven in like 12 games. So I mean, he is maybe in play to get a double digit tackle for loss numbers, a corner, which is absolutely crazy. But then you also have his numbers like versus zone coverage, where he has almost a hundred passer rating allowed against zone. But then if you go down to just bank, his man coverage snaps last year, that goes down to like 66.1 or 61.1, which is, which was like top five in the national football league. So the dichotomy is so crazy with Drew Phillips and what type of defense is DeNard Wilson going to run when he runs like quarters defense. And when he does like pattern matching, is he going to be like, all right, well, Drew Phillips is strong in the slot. Are we just going to allow Drew Phillips to run man-to-man coverage? And then the rest of these guys are going to be dropping back into this cover for, um, or where does our Darius Washington fit into this? Cause they are going to put three safeties on the field. A ton. Uh, they barely did it last year. The giants, like they'll run out a lot of, a lot out of, out of nickel. They really didn't put three safeties on the field that all at once. I think we're going to go back to, uh, the defense that we have with pack Ram, where you had peppers and, um, and, uh, well, no eat Logan Ryan. Like in the, I'm thinking that I'm thinking 2011, sorry. But then even then, yeah, like 2011, where you had Dion grant a role and Kenny Phillips, uh, maybe another one that I'm forgetting, but, uh, I do think they're going to go back to that type of defense. So it's hard for me to judge anyone in the zone when Shane bone was running it. Like I, I just, they all look terrible. Right. So that's the only thing like I like drew what I like about drew Phillips is his tenacity. Like I know it called me crazy. I like the fact that he kind of fought the Cowboys when he played him in Dallas last year. Like I like his attitude. He has a, he has a want to, it's just, he's got to clean up his technique. So I haven't cast him aside by any means like his rookie year. I thought he played a lot better than last year. So we'll see what happens with him. But, um, I, I look, you could do a lot worse than drew Phillips guys. So now you did mention that you got all excited and kind of felt a little let down until the end about Abdul Carter last year. Uh, what are your expectations for Abdul Carter this year? And is he going to top Ryan Burns and sacks on this thing? So I, well, I, I went to the jets giants camp and I watched him live and I was like, Oh my God, this is, this is the guy like he's flying. And again, it's drills guys, but he is flying around people. Right. So look, I'm dude, I'm expecting tense. I don't know if he's going to use as many as Burns, but then again, I don't know if Burns going to have the year he had last year, but I'm expecting 10 sacks of Carter. I think, I think, um, they use them. I think Bolin used them way more than way better than Shane Bowen last year. So I think he's kind of that guy that they're going to move all over the defense. And that's the, that's the thing about this defense guys. Like they can do it. They can do that with a bunch of guys. They can do it with Reese. I can do it with Burns. It can kind of move everyone all over the place. So I'm expecting double digit sacks from Carter this year. I mean, it's third overall pick, like, you know, let's go. And I think they'll use him better than I, any, they're going to, anyone can use them better than the way Bowen used them last year. He's just got to, you know, make sure he, I kind of like that. They sat him at the end of last year too, from all the stuff you're hearing in the locker room. That was the one thing Kafka did well. I thought, yeah, right, right, right, right. Hold them accountable. Right. So I'm expecting big things from them guys. Yeah. I'm at the point where I'm disappointed if Abdul Carter's not, I, I, I think we're going to end the year and we're going to say Abdul Carter's a better football player than Brian Burns. That's my expectation. It should be. I'll have a question for you guys. Where do you stand on Kavon Thibodeau right now? Jerry, you read my mind. That was going to be my last one. I left you with your thoughts on Kavon. I'll adjust and answer first. Go ahead. I mean, I think he's done everything right this spring. Um, not only from a, you know, obviously I don't know what he's looking like on the field, but oh my God, he does not have to be probably the, the, the last person that needs to be the lead spokesperson for John Harbaugh right now after them very publicly shopping him and them being very interested in, they're probably still, there's probably the part of them that's still interested if they get the right offer to shop him yet. He is the guy that is been the lead catalyst vocally on John Harbaugh's team. And like, ah, Hey, I I've always wanted a coach that matches my energy, that meets my energy, that meets my vibe. And John Harbaugh is willing to meet that. He's willing to explain the why behind things. I have questions. I like to know the why behind things. So, uh, he is the last person that I think has to do that with this new regime. Um, yet he's doing it. So at least from that standpoint, and also knowing that Kavon is a very smart and savvy individual, he knows it's his contract year. He knows that this year is going to be the best chance to get paid by either this team or another team. I think he wants to show what he's fully about. Do you think the giant, sorry, Sean, do you think the giants can, do you think there's a possibility of giant sign into another contract, Justin? Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I would go as far as this. My, my bold prediction for the giant year is that Kavon Thibodeau signs an extension after this year. Um, if for no reason, remember also you still have these next two years after this, where you're going to be operating with the quarterback on the rookie scale. Yep. And also if he produces enough, why not invest in having three guys in that pass rush? The great giant teams always did that. And then by the time you reach where you have to make a decision on cutting him or whatever, extending him again, we might be at the end of the Brian Burns role or no Reese might be transitioning, growing in his body. So, uh, to me, I don't know. He's a guy who wants to be here, does all the right things. And also I think you're going to see a lot of them on the field. Um, and some of that five tech stuff as well, where like, I mean, he's been good against the run. I don't think it's just a matter of Abdul quarter of Burns have to be off the field for him to be on. I think he will be in that mix along that defensive line as well. Yeah. And that's why I asked you, cause I, I have a feeling like it wouldn't stun me if the giants gave him another contract. I think he's the best. He's really good against the run. And look, if he gets into that, it's not all about sacks. I know it's pressures, but if he gets into that seven to 11 sack range, it's it's he's totally earned it. So. Yeah. And you know what else he's done, Jerry? He is in that very rarefied club of he's very close with John Mara. Yes, he is. Absolutely. Right. And that matters on this Yeah, it totally does. Yeah, absolutely. And like you said, man, the giants were, it's funny. Cause they're like, oh, they're following the Eagles model of pass rush. No guys, we invented it. They, they do it. They copied us. We did it first and then we got away from it. Right. So now we have all these pass rushers and it's like, are you really going to let one of them walk? If he has a good year, I think it'd be stupid to let them walk. So like you said, having all these guys come in, it's only going to be better and you can have enough of them. So of course he proved that years ago. Yeah. I mean, right now they're projected to have 50 million in cap space next year. Yeah. Um, I mean, would you pay him a George Karloff? This just got like 22 million. Uh, would you pay him anywhere around boy? Mafia just got 20 million a year with the Bengals. And I, like, I think 20, even 20 million for him would be like, he's probably going to get 20 million just because, Oh, I think he gets 20. I think he gets 25 and someone, if someone will say here's 25 million, I totally do. Either he's going to get five because he played well, or he's going to end up at the Johns cause he didn't play as well. And he's not getting 25 anywhere. And he's selling a one-year proven deal. Exactly. Adolfo away, just got 24 from the commanders of the Nick Benito got 26 and a half. So that would be, I honestly think that's best case scenario. He's not getting more than that. Unless he has like this year where he goes off, which I don't think he's going to be really get, get, he's not going to get that opportunity this year just with how many, how much depth that this team has. Unless there's an injury. Unless there's an injury. Oh man. You have anything else you want to get to Justin? I mean, we haven't talked. I'm actually anything guys. I'm I'm here. I did. I can hang for a bit. So, all right. I'm looking at the clock. I'm trying to be respectful of Jerry. So I'm going to pass the torch to Justin here. We didn't talk about dark. I'm good till seven 30. All right. If you want. Yes. Yeah. We, we basically haven't, I'm proud of us. We haven't talked about Jackson. We haven't talked about the quarterback actually. All right. Let's talk about this. Yeah. Identity offense. Cause this brings in, cause this brings in Jackson dart. Uh, you have an offensive coordinator that comes from a very, very pass, happy pass first system. Even did it a little bit with the Chicago bears too. Even with awful quarterback play, you have an, a quarterback coach, Brian Callahan, who comes from a pass first mentality with the Cincinnati Bengals. Hell even Greg Roman, the last two years with the chargers was super pass happy with, with Justin Herbert, bad offensive line, bad situation over there. But there's a little bit of evidence. I know the sexy thing is to say that this team is going to be run first, but there are trends and tendencies of guys on this coaching staff, even with run heavy philosophies and run heavy reputations. There are tendencies of these guys to be a little bit throw happy. What do you think the identity of this offense is going to be early on in the season? And then maybe how does that evolve throughout? I think early on in the season is going to be run heavy and then it could evolve into something else, right? Especially when they, when they start stacking the line, it's obviously, okay, now we're going to, we're going to pass. But I just think the first few games, the first four or five games, if the run game's going well, right? If it's not, if it's getting stuff, then it's going to be a little different. But if, if, if this team runs as well as I think they can with the offensive line, with the car, with cat scataboo, Tracy, everything, I think there'll be run heavy. And then they might evolve more into a pass passing team later on. But that's not to say that, you know, dart won't throw for 300, 300 yards in one of those first five games. So I'm excited for dart, man. I, I think, I love that they've got this experience coaching staff around him now. Absolutely love it. Right. And look, you know, under day Dable was in love with him and, um, you know, he's, he's, he's reckless, but I think there's getting to him a bit, right? You know, I don't think dart's going to be, I think hardball can have that conversation with dart and it's going to get through to him more than it would get through to scataboo, right. About doing backflips. So, you know, he wants, you got to preserve, right? So I just love that we have an actual franchise quarterback in year two and in that rookie rookie deal, like you said, Sean, you know, so they have so much flexibility, but I'm excited for what he can do, man. I'm expecting big things, but I was surprised by his longest pass last year, I think it was like 42, 44 yards or something like that. I think it was the, uh, the Bellinger touchdown in Denver. So he's gotta, he's gotta improve on the deep ball a bit, but, but again, the giants didn't have an abundance of riches at wide receiver when he had neighbors in him play like three plays together or something, but, uh, I'm expecting huge things from, from dark guys. Absolutely. You know what? We've made a lot about the additions. I want to ask you, Jerry, who do you think is the giant that they lost? You mentioned Bellinger, the giant, they lost this off season that you think they'll miss the most. You think it's Wanda Robinson? I do. That was the one I thought they'd keep because of his chemistry, right? So I'm a, I'm a little worried about that. I thought that they would keep him because he had such good chemistry with Dart and he was kind of his, his main guy. I'm, I'm a little concerned there, but that being said, I was way happier that they signed a Luminor instead of Wandale. If that was, I'm not that that was the choice, but if I could choose, I'd say, bring back a Luminor and, and keep that line going the way it is. But I think Thomas, I think, especially at first, I think Dart will miss Wandale the most. Okay. Just, I'm going to jump you now. I asked you that this is something I love asking as we get closer to camp and Justin be prepared. I plan on talking about this with you at some point too. Maybe we just talk about it here. This, when I say the word most likely, it doesn't mean you actually think it's likely, but who do you think is the most likely surprise cut on the New York Giants this year? Oh, wow. That's tough, man. I would say, I guess he just in moving his eyes now. No, the thing, the thing with the asking somebody if they're a surprise cut, I, then they may not be that much of a surprise. So the most likely surprise cut or just, okay. Or just the surprise cut. And again, I use the word likely, but it doesn't mean they're going to get cut. But in your brain, like you wouldn't be shocked if they caught them, but it might be a surprise to everybody. Maybe you want to frame it that way. I'd have to. Is Odell a surprise? No, he wouldn't be a surprise cut. He would not be a surprise cut. I it's, it's tough because like, are they going to keep four tight ends? I don't know. I mean, Thomas Fedoni being cut is not like a surprise. I know. I'm just, I'm just trying to go down the list of, of, of players who could be cut. How about. And at this point, I think after the reporting that's been done in the spring, and we, we referenced the Paul Schwartz piece that says that, you know, Darius Mosel and Jack Kelly could be competing for interior linebacker four. Yeah. Again, that's not much of a surprise, but on that note, Justin, I'll give you a surprise cut. I thought about this. If he doesn't look great off of the injury and camps weird and you bring up Moose out is Micah McFadden, a surprise caught on a one-year deal of caution. I think it would be a surprise. Yeah. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Like there, you never know. Cause some of these guys are not horrible guys and they're going to be auditioning for the first time. You don't know. Like we were blindsided that one year with Ryan Connelly, like we might. So that's so feels like something that, you know, I, again, I don't want to put this on like, Oh, that's something that horrible, but it's so feels like something the New York giants would do to take a position that it, it needs depth and they would piss us off and be like, yes. All right. Well, Jack, yeah. Jack Kelly's ready to be linebacker three when he barely even played off ball linebacker feels like something the giants would do. Yeah. I feel like this team is loaded with guys who there's no way they get cut to, they could totally get cut. I don't know. So McFadden might be the only one that you came up with that. I'm like, yeah, that would be a mild surprise. Okay. All right. I like asking that. It would be financially irresponsible. They only have $10 million in cap space right now. It would be so financially irresponsible, but in a, in a world of, we like to keep young guys and like, especially this guy is, this guy was not a horrible guy, but a, but a guy with kind of like decently big money. It's Chauncey Goldstone. Okay. That's a good one. I mean, but it would, they would, they would have to eat like $8 million. Speaking of eating money of anything. What? Yeah. I was going to say, what are the cap ramifications there? That's the one. Yeah. That's a Logan Ryan move. If you caught it, I'm sorry, Justin. I know you. No, no, that, that w and that's a great point by Sean. We've talked about that late. It would be, it would be a Logan Ryan move. Like that's one of the first things that Joe Shane and Brian Gable did is we are getting this Joe judge guy out of here. Yeah. He doesn't fit what we're trying to do leadership. You know, he was a leader of that locker room. I feel like, like that was a, and safety, they had no safeties on that roster that year. So that like Logan Ryan cutting the cutting, that made no sense, both roster wise and financially, I would argue that Darius Slayton is of the same essence, especially financially. It just makes zero sense. And, and what are the, what's the Javon Holland like ramifications cutting? Oh boy. Yeah. I know it's probably a brutal sense. They would have $23 million in dead money. And then they would, and then that would cost them an additional four and a half million in capsules. He's off the list. Okay. Got it. Yeah. I figured it was bad. I figured it was bad. Cross him off, cross him off. This guy's dead. Yeah. You know what? You know what? John Runyon would be the, would probably be the guy that would be the biggest like, wow. Surprise. Cause they would save money from it. And then that would mean that John Horbaugh is trusting a player that he already trusted to have back-to-back seasons of a thousand snaps for the Baltimore Ravens. Speaking of that, speaking of that movie, Sean, cross him off then. Yeah, that was, I was getting a bunch of fastballs. That was a curve ball. I was stumped. You stumped me. It was a surprise cut. I'm like, Oh God, I didn't prepare for this. Listen, by the way, there's no preparation. There's no right answer. Oh, I know. I know. But it's a tough one. It's tough. It's tough. Who leads the Giants in touchdowns? 2026. Oh, um, I'm going to go scataboo. Okay. All right. And by the way, that makes sense too, because he was also a factor in the receiving game. And I think we forgot that last year. Yeah. And that would involve him staying healthy though, to lead the team in touchdowns. I think you're going to have a lot of people who think Isaiah likely is going to have 10 touchdowns on this team and leave them. I think scataboo can have more than that if he plays 12, 13 games. So, okay. All right. Yeah. Because the other is why it's neighbors, but you don't know when he's coming back. That's why it's a trick question. You can't say neighbors. Cause you have no idea if that's week one or I'll go scataboo. Okay. Who leads the team in receiving yards? I'll still, I'll still say neighbors again, even if he comes back like week three or four, I think, I think he'll still lead the team. It is wild to me. We did a, we did a show that next year we're going to have to feature you, but we had like giants personalities and reporters. I just had them take a 60 second selfie video. Be like, what's your, what's the boldest take that you're most confident in. And we had three beat reporters. We had Connor Hughes, we had Art Stapleton and Ryan Dunlavy. All three of the beat reporters mentioned something about the wide receiver room. And every single one was like pretty distinctly different. Art Stapleton said Malik neighbors. Isn't going to miss a game. He's going to be back week one. He's going to be ready to rock and roll. And then Ryan Dunlavy went so far to say is Malik neighbors is going to miss so much time that Darius Slayton is somehow going to lead the team in receiving. So even in the reporter room, there is no consensus on the Malik neighbors timeline. It's so seeps, which is kind of crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's all over the place. Right. And it was funny because it was trending a few months ago. It was trending. Oh my God, it's looking bad now. It seems like it's trending the other way. Like he could be ready week one. So, but yeah, the, the opinions are all over the place. Yeah. Uh, you got it. You got a record prediction before we close nine and eight, nine and eight. And I'm, that's what, that's what I'm expecting. It's just, you got, if it's not nine and eight, I'm sorry. It's a failure. I'm sorry. I want to be, and that gets us to the playoffs. Fine. If it doesn't. Okay. But nine and eight, you got to win one more than you lose. I love it. All right. Well, Jerry, where can we fall you? Where can the listeners get you? So, uh, on X at giant insider, YouTube at giant insider, giant insider, all over every, you know, podcast platform, not quite as big as talking giants, but we're, we're getting there guys. So I'll say this at the end, who would have saw this coming? If you know, the talk of giants lore from early on days where the days where the show was confrontational and we were looking to take people's heads off, who would have saw this common? No, but, uh, Jerry, I really appreciate you. You, uh, you called me out of the blue one day and you gave me some really nice compliments. And that really, that really made my day really made my month. And it really means a lot to me. So I'm really glad that we kind of have this new, this new relationship now, and we're going to be, we're going to be chatting more. So I mean, I meant to men, you guys do a good job. You're a good dude. So thank you for having me guys. You guys are awesome. I really appreciate it. Anytime. All right. Jerry's the best Jerry Foley giant insider. All right. All right. Thank you once again to Jerry Foley, a giant insider for coming on the show, a lot of fun. And before we wrap up, we got to do the fanatics five. Welcome back to the fanatics five. Oh, it's brought to you by the fanatic sports book this week. We are ranking Sean. What do we rank? Well, Justin, uh, anybody who listened to my work on Eminent Tiki with Sean Morris knows that during this week, I had a very grumpy things. I'm tired of hearing about in the summer of 2026. I figured I'd bring this edition here things I'm already tired of hearing about with the New York giants as we start this season. And we're bringing you something new. Uh, drop your own top five of the comments of our weekly Twitter posts that comes out before we do the five. Oh, on the show, you can win $50 in fan cash, courtesy of the fanatic sports book. It's that simple. All you have to do is reply to the graphic and our producer, Jeff is going to reach out to you and you have an opportunity to get $50 in fan cash. Bang Sean. All right. So the official title is the five storylines I'm already tired of with the giants this season. All right. So again, what am I already tired of? Here we go. Number five, Justin replacing Dexter Lawrence. If you have a conversation with anybody who might be a naysayer about the excitement of the giants, inevitably you will get this line too. How are they going to replace Dexter Lawrence? And the truth is they're not going to replace Dexter Lawrence. It's going to be a completely different feel and look of a defense outside of their outside edge rushers. Especially we consider the inside linebackers they've gotten here and also DJ readers to lead space and takes on double teams. So no, they're not going to have a mammoth defensive tackle like Dexter Lawrence on this team. No, they're not going to replace exactly what Dexter Lawrence did. What they're going to do is just be a different style defense. I'm already tired of hearing about replacing Dexter Lawrence. Any thoughts? All right. Go right to number four, number four, starting. Oh, and two, I'm already got the cowboy friends talking to me, man, all this giant optimism. You guys are going to start on two. What if they start on two? We're going to, here's the thing. I'm going to care if they start on two, don't get me wrong, but it's also way different than past years when the giants don't win early. Because when you look at their next four games, at least on paper between the Titans, Cardinals, commanders, saints, all four of those games, I would argue not only winnable. And I don't even care what the Vegas favorites say. I can make the case. They start on two and you should expect that team to be three and three at a bare minimum, even after an O and two star Justin. In fact, I say, look out NFL. If the giants don't start on two, cause it means they might be playoff bound. All right. Any thoughts before I continue? I know I'm kind of being blunt. No, keep going. We'll talk at the end. Oh, at the end. Okay, great. Number three, Cam Scadaboo doing backflips. He did them during the Brian Burns softball game. Nobody gave a crap. You only give a crap now because he slipped and fell. I don't want them doing them either, but let's not make it out like it's a big deal. You just heard Jerry Foley rank it as a five out of 10 in terms of big deal. Number two, Jackson Dart running the football, Jackson Dart running plays. Uh, John Harbaugh is not going to bottle up Jackson Dart and make sure he never runs the football again. Also, if you're somebody who wants to watch Jackson Dart, never run the football. You probably shouldn't want Jackson Dart as the quarterback of the giants because it's part of the reason he's good and you should be excited. Yes. Yes. The slide a little more. Yes. He should get out of bounds. Yes. In mini camp, they were blowing the whistle every time he got out of the pocket. That's all being coached into him, but I'm tired of hearing that Jackson Dart shouldn't run the football. And number one, the number one storyline I'm already tired of this season is when will Malik neighbors come back? You know, when he'll come back when he's ready. How about that? And the giant scored points without Malik neighbors next year. I am excited to see him play, but we cannot exhaust ourselves through five weeks of training camp asking when will Malik neighbors come back? He's going to come back. He's not out for the year. When he comes back as anybody's guess, it could be week one. It could be week four, but don't exhaust yourself. And that's why it's number one, because it's going to get tiring real quick if we start panicking about when he's coming back. And that's your sink. And, you know, you know, if he doesn't come back and if the progress is slower, you know, I love our media, right? But, you know, they're going to ask Harbaugh, who's going to give insightful answers on like anything and everything. You know that it's going to be every single day that neighbors, neighbors, and I, if it gets to a point where it is, there's just no update. I would rather hear about so many other things than just then Malik neighbors. Look, our core audience that listens to talking giants, and especially through these episodes, we're training camp hasn't started. We're out of season. We're not even in the draft. Like you guys are our P one listeners and we love you. You're here because you care about giants football. And I would even argue you really care about the nuances of giants football. There are so many more important importance, wrong word. So many more things to talk about with the excitement of the giants than just simply when the number one wide receiver is coming back. Oh, it's important. Yeah. Like you said, I'm glad that it's important. It's obviously like if they want to be a playoff team, Malik neighbors has to play football. They should know that about it, but it's not the only thing. Like again, the giants weren't good last year, but the offense, a lot of it was running. The football was able to move the ball things that we hadn't seen in years or without Malik neighbors. And I want to stress that. And they did add Isaiah likely and the cavalcade of wide receivers, including Austin and Mooney, and maybe Odell. Like there are more bodies here even without Wanda Robinson that were here last year or with the quarterback that you think should get better. Like it shouldn't be panic city all of August. If neighbors isn't on the field with three weeks left to camp. Yeah. Jackson dart running plays too is a really good one. I think we were having me, I don't know if we were having a similar conversation from DJ stemming from 2022, but the similar talking point from Daniel Jones is 2022 season and Jackson darts 2025 season is that if you take away their legs, they're an average quarterback, maybe at best. And that's not, that's not to take away what Jackson dart did in 2025, because it was awesome as a rookie. And I would, I would even argue that, that his throwing highlights and his ability to throw as a quarterback, very, very good and better than what DJ did in 2022 with, without a doubt. But if you, you can't take away the, you can't take away the legs of quarterbacks like this, that the reason, one of the main reasons why they're good. One of the main reasons why they're efficient. One of the main reasons why they have potential as like top quarterbacks in the league. You can't just take that away. Now the thing is defense is adjusted to what Daniel Jones did in 2022, the Eagle started to do it. And then everybody just caught onto that. So then 2023, when you took away Daniel Jones, his legs, basically after that opening drive against Dallas week one, and they took away his legs, he was neutered. He was, so there, there will be teams. There will be teams that will game plan to take away Jackson darts likes that they'll, they'll do the favor for fans that don't want that don't want Jackson dart to run around and they'll, they'll do it for you, man. Cause they're going to game plan. If they think that you can't throw, if they think that the offense is going to become stale and the offense is going to be neutered. If they can't throw Jackson dart will not run as much, but that's when the evolution of his game needs to go. No doubt. And that's obviously part of being in year two, right? Is the evolution of the game. The truth is with Daniel Jones. And I think a lot of it was the offensive line, completely shell shocking the hell out of him. But there was a lot of indecisiveness, that whole line also did suck, but a lot of the Daniel Jones like throwing stuff. Remember there was a part in his rookie year where he was throwing and percentage-wise he was up there as one of the best deep bowl throwers in football. And then that basically even 2020, he was really good. And it vanished because I'm guessing the mental clock in him got completely screwed up. That shouldn't be Garrett Garrett killed him. And that shouldn't be an issue with this giants offensive line slash what you hope is going on with their collective heads in the offensive room. We need to see him evolve as a pastor, but even as he evolves, like Justin, you think about some of the MVP candidates every year, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, even as you're seeing a little bit here with the evolution two years in of bow Knicks, like those guys are really good quarterbacks. Those guys, all of their passing games have completely evolved since when they first got into the league. And that's what you want to see from Jackson dart. But all of those guys are not the same quarterback. If they don't have the threat of the legs, like that's not who they are. So I'm not saying that Jackson dart is Josh Allen. God, I hope we can be, you know, Lamar Jackson. God, I hope he can be. But all of those guys learned how to run differently, protect themselves, all had shots taken on them in their rookie year. And I get that darts like a little bit smaller clearly than like the horse that Josh Allen is. But there's enough evolution in quarterbacks games that are franchise quarterbacks that all were mobile quarterbacks that all still continue to be mobile quarterbacks where they evolved as pastors. And that's what you got to have. That's why I'm not freaking out. And I don't want to hear about the stop him from running. No, no, no. Some of the great quarterbacks in football continue to run the football. They just do it in a different way and evolve their passing. And that's where I'm at. I'll tell you though, I'm excited. I'm getting excited now for camp, Justin. I'm getting really pumped. Yeah, I am way more. I am way more concerned if out of the things to be concerned about with Jackson dart, I'm way more concerned of how is he going to, how is he going to adjust to this new offense? How is he going to adjust to throwing more and just operating under center more since he basically didn't do it a lot last year. He's going to do way more play act play action under center where your back is going to be turned to the defense. So what does that look like for him? Um, that, that, those are things that I'm way more concerned about than Jackson dart. Like I, the running part of his game is an advantage. I get excited about him running the ball. I don't get worried about him running the ball. Yeah, I completely agree with you. That is not going to be a thought in my head at all. Yeah. I'd also like to add at the end of Cinco here, Justin, cause we didn't do this in the intro and we just went through Jerry Foley, uh, those listeners. And there were quite a few that came out to fanatics fest, especially when Justin and I were on set. Uh, took pictures with us, talk to us, big fans of the show. Just want to say, we really appreciate you guys. I think that was awesome that so many people stopped by the set. I know obviously that was a long line to get Tiki Barber's autograph, but there were quite a few that came over. It was a long line to get my autograph to talk to Justin. And I say you guys are big fans of the show and just say, as we head into our second regular season together, uh, really our first training camp together and kind of this evolution of, of me joining this show with Justin, it's really appreciated to see that many of you guys and the giant community come together. Uh, and we love doing the show excited for the year and getting to meet a bunch of you at fanatics fest was actually really awesome. And it meant the world. Yeah. And you know, it's not, you know, I kind of like hyped it up on, but it wasn't like a big, like 10 pole, like me going on for 20 minutes. It wasn't like a big, like event of like, Hey, come out to this. And the fact that there was still a bunch of people there that we were able to talk to and stop. And they were able to see it. Uh, you know, even get a chance to see Tiki as well. I know that was probably, you know, that's definitely the main attraction, but, uh, no, that was, that was really cool. And I'm really, I'm really excited about year two of a new, uh, of a new version of the show. Um, let's win some games, man. Let's go. That's that's all. That's all I want. I want to get out, get out of October, man. The, the, the, the four games, like you said, but starting going to that whole point, you know, I talked about it on the fan as well. Like, you know, you could start on with two, but damn those next four games, you've got an opportunity. You've got an opportunity. And I want to be out of, in the middle of October and get out of October. And I want people to still be excited to watch this football team. That is my main ask every single year. Um, and damn, if it's not, if it's not, if we're not going to start to do that this year, I really don't know when it's going to be, but let's do it. Let's do it. All right. Uh, we're going to be back next week. I think I know the episode, but that requires one of our partners kind of coming through for us and getting me some information so we can do it. Uh, so I hope that happens and I love this partner. So hopefully the, hopefully that happens. So, uh, we will see you next Monday for a cool episode. And then the next episode, I think we'll be starting to recap training camp and talk about training camp. And then we'll be, hopefully I'll be down in West Virginia and I'll provide you some live streams as well. Let's go giants. See you next week. Have a good weekend.