Art Stapleton Talks Giants OTA's | 859

May 29th, 2025, it's Talkin' Giants brought to you by SeatGeek. And today had Art Stapleton on Off the Record in NorthJersey.com. You know Art Stapleton. I know Art Stapleton. You love Art Stapleton, and so do I. Talked all about Giants OTAs. Now, they've only had OTAs for two days, but today on Wednesday was the first day for media. So we talked all about the offense. We talked about his Mike Kafka calling plays. I mean, I'll give you a little spoiler. Art Stapleton said that he's not sure if it's decided. I think the fact that it's at least being reported that it was Mike Kafka was calling the plays today, even though all three of Shea Tierney, Brian DeFelice, and Kafka have walkie-talkies and they're all talking to him. If Mike Kafka is the one that's calling plays at this stage of the offseason, this is phase three of the Giants' offseason, I think it's going to be Kafka at least to start this year. Is that actually going to stick? is that actually going to stay we'll see because that was the whole thing in 2023 where it was snip snap snip snap of Mike Kafka's the play caller Brian DeFelice's the play caller Shea Tierney's even the play caller at certain times so um I hope whatever decision the Giants make they make it with conviction and at least and it at least sticks for more than just like two weeks because it was you know I made that video where it was the Giants versus the Cardinals game where Dable was calling plays against Cardinals and that was week two so whatever decision they make I hope they make it with conviction and at least it sticks for a couple weeks of course you're allowed to change your mind so really that was the the biggest thing to come out of OTAs was uh the play caller situation um so you know we also talked about how quarterbacks are splitting reps and things like that i just came back from Charlotte North Carolina vacation that i take every year since like 2022 had a good time uh saw my favorite ******* driver uh win i've been going to NASCAR races for 20 years and finally my favorite driver won and uh i had the realization that i've seen my favorite driver in NASCAR Ross Chastain win just as many games just as many races as i've seen the Giants win in person over the last calendar year and that was one time and that win costed the Giants the number one overall pick no but we're feeling good vibes are good and i think that's a very it's a very unique thing about the Giants right now is that the energy around the building is is kind of good and i think that's a pretty neat and we're gonna have all summer to talk about that but before i bring on Art Stapleton a lot of good nuggets in there i want to talk to you about Ridge Wallet because today's episode is brought to you by Ridge Wallet look we've all been there hauling around a wallet that feels more like a cinder block than an accessory it's bulky awkward and it's not doing your lower back any favors but really when you're sitting down and things are a little tight that's where Ridge Wallet comes in Ridge Wallets are ultra slim effortlessly sleek and surprisingly spacious holds up to 12 cards plus cash all without turning your pockets into a lumpy mess and even look at this this is giant this is like a little bit a little bit Giants blue maybe maybe even a little bit darker i love the look to it it's like painted really nice it's nice and hard i love the color of it too and there's over 50 colors and styles Ridge Wallet isn't just functional it's personal whether you want sleek black forged carbon fiber a wallet that features your favorite NFL team or one that matches your vibe they've got you covered you can get a Giants Ridge wallet hell yeah right now just in time for Father's Day Ridge is having a huge sale get up to 40% off your order at ridge.com slash Giants just head to ridge.com slash Giants to find the perfect gift for your for dad or yourself uh after your purchase support our show and tell them that we sent you and give dad the upgrade he deserves this year. Now here's Art Stapleton of NorthJersey.com and The Record. Enjoy the interview. All right, I want to welcome on Art Stapleton of NorthJersey.com and The Record. Art, you've been on before, obviously. We haven't talked in a while. How are you, my friend? What's up, Justin? I'm doing all right. You know, hanging in there. Rainy day in the New York, New Jersey area and catching some football in shorts. So it's day two of OTAs, but it's the first day that you've actually seen it. So I'm going to leave it kind of open-ended to start, and we'll touch on some individual stuff as we go. What did you see? What kind of most stood out to you from the media portion of OTAs today? Like, hey, I know you've only seen it once, and it's the first time that you guys were actually back out there too. But what did you see? What were some observations that you took away from today? You know, I think the biggest observation, at least early on, is just the idea of, you know, who isn't out there and how smart the Giants are being from a medical perspective with some of the key cornerstones of this team. i think that's really first and foremost you're not going to see Andrew Thomas on the field likely much this spring uh he's still coming back from the injury and let's be honest it's not so much about recovering from the injury it's about preventing anything further so keep him off his feet let the guy move around you know he's one of the most important if not the most important piece offensively uh and Malik Neighbors with his toe uh that was an injury that kind of lingered last year said it goes all the way back to LSU uh neighbors was there today was inside getting treatment and then by the middle of the OTA he was out on the field kind of jumping in the huddle uh listening to cadence and stuff like that uh but you're not going to see him on the field and i think uh from a Giant's perspective all attention goes to the quarterbacks and in a passing camp so to speak that's what you would expect uh so it comes down to how much is Jackson Dart how soon is Jackson Dart going to get uh reps with the first team even in a passing camp setting and uh he got some plays and i think uh you know the constant comparison between the four quarterbacks really the the two quarterbacks because as much as Jameis Winston and Tommy DeVito are there um it's really going to come down to Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart and how quickly Jackson Dart can get on the heels of Russell Wilson. Um, so as an overview, that's kind of what, to me, the first OTA for media represented, uh, I'm sure we'll get into, you know, some of the other things that, you know, transpired, but, um, to me, it's the quarterbacks. And I think, um, you know, We're all going to speculate as far as what the plan for Jackson Dart will be, because we know the closer you get to the season, the fewer opportunities they get to truly develop Jackson Dart in practice. So I think what they do now and what they do in training camp Will be very interesting to see how much they can give him How soon, and then you kind of assess where Russell is Where Jameis is, and where Dart And then obviously DeVito is kind of the wild card here Because everyone expects him, I think, to not be in the mix come September But I do think that the value of Tommy DeVito here, he may be most valuable to Jackson Dart than any other quarterback on this roster. And we can get into that, and I have my reasons for it. But it's a very interesting situation, the role that Tommy DeVito now finds himself in. And if I know Tommy, he'll play that role to the best of his ability. But it'll be interesting to see how that progresses over the summer. I think he's even valuable for Russ and Jameis. And I think Daboll talked about that after the draft. I mean, there's one quarterback that's been in the system for a couple years now, and that's, lo and behold, that's Tommy DeVito. But I want to talk about Daboll and how he's talked about how they're going to split up the QB reps. Because after the draft, I couldn't believe, Art, the level of detail that Brian Dable went into talking about Jackson Dart and specifically the plan that the Giants have for Jackson Dart. There was even a point where Joe Shane finished a thought and a sentence and unprompted Brian Daboll was like, yeah, and I'm going to expand upon this point with Jackson Dart. I'm like, I don't know if Dable has ever done that. And then he gets up to the podium today, and in typical short and sweet Brian Dable on the field podium tendency, he's back to saying the five, six-word sentences. Oh, he gave the wonderful insight today that all the quarterbacks are going to get reps. Yeah, thanks, Dabolls. So I don't know if he's going to be that detailed from here on out about how the quarterbacks are going to get reps, when and where Jackson Dart's going to get reps. But, I mean, I guess even you kind of already talked about it a little bit, but even talk about your takeaways from what Daboll had to say even after the draft when it came to all these quarterbacks getting reps and then in particular Jackson Dart. Yeah, you know, I did a story kind of digging into, all right, well, what's Daboll's plan? How are they going to bring a quarterback, a rookie quarterback along and how quickly, you know, can they get him up to speed? and i went to two different i used two different avenues to try to piece together what i think a semblance of a plan will look like number one was two years ago when Tommy DeVito was an undrafted rookie and they had no business playing Tommy DeVito and then with injuries to Daniel Jones and Tyrod Taylor all of a sudden Tommy DeVito had to get ready to play when he had never worked with the first team offense in practice uh so you know i went back to that and Dable talked a lot about thursday morning meetings that he had with DeVito and that people really didn't know it was kind of off the books that he met with the rookie quarterback in his office went through plays went through things that they were doing with the game plan and then obviously uh in my reporting i I went back to Buffalo and Josh Allen's rookie year and talked to people, did research, read stories about reports from 2018 about how they handled Josh Allen working with the third team in training camp. And then obviously, you know, it took a half in week one for him to surpass Nathan Peterman to basically take over in Buffalo. So I think a lot of it is timing. I think they don't have enough time to truly dedicate to both parties. And what I mean is they have two mouths to feed, right? You've got to worry about the actual offense and actually getting a team ready to play and win. And then you have the other aspect of this, which ultimately, long-term, is more important, and that's the development of Jackson Dart into your franchise quarterback. So I think Dable and Mike Kafka and Shea Tierney, they will have to be very calculated in terms of what they do as far as Jackson Dart goes, how much work they will do outside of the 2025 New York Giants. And what I mean by that is once game plan starts becoming a factor later this summer where they start installing for games, they have to decide how much is going to Jackson Dart and how much they are just going to keep a global view. And ultimately, that probably comes down to Jackson Dart and how much he can handle. Right. Why did you say, you know, a couple minutes prior, you said that maybe we'll get into it. Why is Tommy DeVito one of the most important pieces to Jackson Dart in terms of this summer and this training camp? Well, you mentioned it, number one. I do think there's value in him being in this offense. We see it a lot. I remember talking to Victor Cruz when Victor Cruz signed with Chicago after the Giants released him years back. It was a situation where you're a veteran receiver. you know you you kind of feel like you're i don't want to say being used because that's a little negative but it's almost like you know how am I gonna that you know be a value to the younger players and then all of a sudden the veteran doesn't have that value right now Tommy DeVito's value with the Giants is to me pretty simple it's in that meeting room he's been through this he was a rookie who had to get caught up to speed with very little practice time and he knows how to work with Brian Daboll and Shea Tierney and Mike Kafka so when they split up today like for seven on sevens they had the ones and the twos in one end zone and that was Russell Wilson and James Winston and then on the other end zone it was Tommy DeVito and Jackson Dart and after every play Tommy DeVito is kind of sidling up to Jackson Dart and they're sharing secrets and you know I'm sure some of the conversation just so you know you know you see two guys talking on the field you want to assume what it is you assume it's football I mean who knows maybe they were talking about the Knicks game last night you know I doubt it um because now Tommy DeVito is in position to be spending time with Jackson Dart and basically telling him what he sees and what he's supposed to see and how Daboll likes things run you know that's why Brian Daboll wants Tommy DeVito here to have a big role and wants people to to not forget about DeVito which is what he's been calling him lately is that there's none of these quarterbacks know what Daboll wants more than Tommy DeVito so you know that may not factor in October but in May and in June and even July that matters to the head coach you know he can rely on DeVito to be the guy who kind of walks around with Jackson Dart a little bit and as much as Dart is learning the game from watching Russell Wilson and may get some advice from Russell Wilson or seeing what Jameis is doing and you know learning about the game through Jameis's lens I do think that there is value for Tommy DeVito you know I'm not saying that he's a coach on the field because that's not it but as a teammate I think DeVito learned a lot from Tyrod Taylor two years ago and i think that unselfishness as much as it hurts because DeVito look on draft night DeVito was basically told by the Giants you're not in our long-term plans we don't think you can be a starting quarterback in this league i mean that's essentially what they told him so he has one of two choices he could either be a good Giant and a good teammate and let his career play out and see where it goes or he could sulk and he could be upset and he can say you know what i want out of here but really Tommy DeVito saying he wants out of here doesn't necessarily do him any good um so that's kind of how i see it i know it's a little long-winded answer but it kind of struck me today seeing those two guys together is that we've talked a lot about Russ and Jameis and the influence they're going to have on Dart i think DeVito is going to have as big of an influence between now and the end of training camp as far as how quickly Dart can get up to speed so you mentioned you know there's there's four teams right now you know because uh you know DeVito's with the fours and like the reserves and then you know Dart with the threes jay russ and James with ones and twos, Winston you know exclusively they're with ones and twos was it uh was it almost like Joe Judge, Bill Belichick, Brian Flores styles of practice where you had two plays going on at once because we we haven't seen that from from Dable yet or were they kind of just on opposite sides of the field happening simul like kind of one play happening and then the other side of the field were they happening simultaneously right no no i i i kind of misled you a little bit i guess it was when the offense just stays with the offense and they broke off they had they had the the two quarterbacks and the starters on one end and then instead of just having Devito and Dart stand around with a lot of the younger guys they sent them to the other uh the opposite end zone and they worked together but what's funny is that you know look Brian Dable promised on draft night that they were going to throw Jackson Dart in to the mix as a you know as a you know survive in advance kind of thing with with Jackson Dart and they did that today they threw Dart in there with the starters during the team periods they did it during seven on seven and they wanted to see how he did and actually Dart had a great throw on a touchdown to Jalen Hyatt in kind of a red zone goal line package that you know Hyatt made a great catch Hyatt's out there running with the ones without Malik Nabers on the field and you know you see Dart do that and that's kind of where you start saying boy how quickly can this guy get get it up to speed because if he shows that kind of talent then you're having that pressure on Russell Wilson to say you know what you better look good Russ because if you don't they're going to go to Dart as quickly as they can so i still think we're ways away but they do mix those guys in you know James got a couple snaps with the starters and so did so did Jackson Dart um but like you said it it's early but um i do like the fact that they're giving Dart a little bit of a uh whetting his appetite so to speak with the starters probably the biggest thing to come out today it seems like Mike Kafka is calling plays i think that was reported during rookie camp and then it was like all right well is that gonna kind of continue through the offseason and seemingly it happened again today uh i don't know if Dable i'm sure even if you guys ask Dable about it he's he's gonna deny it and be like oh we're still figuring that out even though at this point at this point this if we're taking notes from last offseason Dable was the one calling plays this past offseason they said oh we're still talking about it and then it never changed from there so uh what what's your what's your takeaways from that was Mike Kafka calling plays today do you think you know it wouldn't it wouldn't have surprised me or at least next week if we make a big deal about this that Dable has three walkie talkies out on the field and you know he has one Kafka has one and Shea Tierney has one so that we could all debate as to who's calling the plays i mean i think in this situation i think Dable is obviously spending a lot of time with Jackson Dart but i do think that Dable is probably back to where he was in 2022 trying to take a little bit more of a global view of this team and seeing where things go um early on and you know i've been told he's been spending a lot of times in the defensive meeting rooms as much as he is the offensive rooms i mean that's what you have to do as a head coach you know and i think um you know Mike Kafka did not do a terrible job calling plays i think the execution was a big part of why the play calling failed um you know so look i was all for Dable taking over last year but it was pretty obvious that they called plays that would have worked had they had a quarterback who could execute the plays and you know again that was the reason why Daniel Jones lost his job even even you know even more so in my opinion than the injury guarantee uh is that they were just designing play after play after play that they thought should have worked if the quarterback made those plays and then when they went off of Daniel Jones then you had quarterbacks who couldn't necessarily you know meet those plays with their uh skill sets so you know again they let themselves down but yeah i mean i i think it wouldn't shock me if Kafka is calling plays but once you go back to Kafka now do you go back again to Dable if things struggle you know you've got to make a determination for this team and say this is the best course of action. Let's do it. Um, and you know, I think it has to be a collective thing too. They need to work better offensively and have a better plan with the personnel and they need to be able to know what their guys can do on the field on Sundays and then call those plays to make it happen. It sounds simple. It sounds ridiculous that a team doesn't work that way but when things start breaking down i think in the past Dable almost i don't want to say job preservation but you feel like you're the head coach you have to take advantage take the reins make sure everything works um and i think if things continue to fail then that's when as a head coach you run out of options so look we're going to play this game as you said we're going to see who's on the walkie-talkie calling in the plays and part of me feels like Dable enjoys that he enjoys that i think he i'm pretty sure he does as well you know he enjoys the guessing he doesn't enjoy the questioning so i think he you know and again maybe he shouldn't maybe that's part of Brian Dable's personality where he should drop that back and forth with the media but i do think that there's part of him that enjoys the fact that you know if you guys want to read into something go ahead i'm not going to correct you but you know here's what i'm going to do next week and now next week if he's the one with the walkie-talkie like i said or Shea Tierney has a walkie-talkie now all of a sudden it's going to be all this speculation as long as they take care of what they've got to take care of in-house it doesn't really matter what we say uh in trying to perceive what they're doing so i think it's still an open-ended thing justin to be honest, as far as who calls the plays. Tickets with code GIANTS2025 with over 28 million downloads. SeatGeek is the number one rated ticketing app in the world. You know that green means good, red means bad. You know this. Come to some Giants games this year. I would love to see, even better yet, because I can imagine tickets are maybe somewhat cheap because Landover, Maryland is a dump. Use code GIANTS2025 and go to the first game against Washington because the Giants are going to win. And you know what we came through for you guys. You can use code GIANTS2025 for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% off any tickets with promo code GIANTS2025. And now back to talking with Art Stapleton. Okay. Yeah, I mean, because at least last year and then, you know, even the first year, it's like, all right, well, Mike Kafka, usually from the start. You know, like, I don't believe when they say, oh, we're still talking about it. No, it's like, we haven't talked about that yet. No, I guarantee you, you've talked about who's going to call offensive plays this year. And if that's the answer, it's, you know, hey, Tierney's going to have the microphone. We're all going to have a walkie-talkie. and we're all going to be talking to quarterbacks, I think that's a fine strategy because that is the plan. But probably the thing that frustrates me most about Dable, and you kind of touched on it just a couple minutes ago, I think he's an impulsive person for how detailed Joe Shane gets into things and how detailed Brian Daboll can sometimes talk about things. He's not a detailed person with the media, but it's like, oh, we have a plan for this, we have a plan for that, we sit down with our analytics guys and we get into tendencies and we get into situations and what are we going to do here? What are we going to do there for a staff that seems like, and especially going after 2022, this was certainly my thought for a staff that seems like they have answers. If things go this way, that way, that way, the last two years, it's been, I feel like things are, he is a very impulsive coach and no, there is no better example than when it comes to the play caller. So like, if you decide that Mike Kafka is the play caller, like give them more than you know i i was you know i uncovered in 2023 that it was the car you know the Cardinals game you know right go go so that was what was that week two you know make a decision have some conviction behind it um instead of being so impulsive that's probably the the biggest critique that i've had about Daboll and i do like Daboll as a coach yeah i mean i i think that's fair and i think if you get Daboll alone in private conversations and talk to him about you know the things that he's learned as a head coach you know that as a head coach you can't handle things the way you would normally do it as an offensive coordinator or as a long-time assistant in this league you know you can talk differently say different things and then when you become the head coach you're accountable for everything you say everything you do and it will be interpreted uh as such so yeah i mean you can be impulsive but you need to have a rationale now behind it and as a head coach you need to explain that to anyone who's watching and as an offensive coordinator you have to make sure your locker room understands it and your head coach understands it and everybody else isn't focused in on the offensive coordinator they're focused on the head coach so i think that's definitely part of his learning curve as a head coach and from 2022 to 23 to 24 and now to 25 you gotta hope that he's learned from some of the missteps that they've made and and some of the decisions that they've made and maybe you know the plan that they have they need to stick with uh and really have conviction about it i think that's a good point for it and i don't think it's something that's unrealistic i think you want your head coach to feel like even in the most even in the roughest of storms you want your head coach to be the one in the middle of that storm who's calm who knows the plan stick with it this is what it's going to be and even even if you give off that impression you don't have to be the guy with your hair on fire but if you give off that impression if that affects one person in your locker room or creates a different perception of who you actually are that's not good as a head coach so right Daboll needs to be conscious of that uh and that would be my advice to him in terms of somebody who has watched head coaches go down in flames here uh in a different variety of ways uh from Joe Judge to Ben McAdoo to uh Pat Shurmur they all handled things a lot differently that they all ended up you know sealing their fate uh in similar ways right i mean we i feel like we talked 20 minutes about offense we could talk 20 minutes more about quarterbacks and offense and everything like that but i i want to mix it up a little bit yep uh defensive side defensive notes Abdul Carter was already being moved around from the start that's kind of cool i love that especially like hey you know we're always looking forward to week one and Jayden Daniels that's the Jayden Daniels is the quarterback that i want Abdul Carter being moved all around lined up uh off ball linebacker a gap QB spy etc etc um you asked a question today about Paulson Adebo and how's his leg look looking and he was out there it seemed like he was moving well so um you know i know the defensive side of the ball isn't the the sexiest to talk about right now because it's if anything it's a little bit more stable it's a it's a unit that's more stable but uh give me some of your defensive thoughts or takeaways from today or just in general yeah definitely i think um you know a forgotten guy in the secondary is Cordell Flott and you know i think a a point that i've made since he was drafted is that he was the youngest guy in that draft class not just the Giants draft class the entire league when he got drafted i think he was he had just turned 20 when he was drafted out of LSU um he's a guy who was on the field probably more with the starters today than i think anyone maybe would have expected uh you know it doesn't mean that Tay Banks and Paulson Adebo weren't on the outside uh but Drew Phillips was strictly in the slot and then you had Plot and Banks kind of i don't want to say alternating but they were both they were both getting their opportunities and i think for me the depth in this secondary last year when when you fell off right even the starters in the secondary were kind of you know i don't want to say substandard but they certainly were not elite players so when you went from Jason Penock down you know it was a lot and when you went from Tay Banks who struggled now all of a sudden you're bringing in Flott now you're you know maybe Hawkins gets on the field it was a big drop off i mean i think Adebo at one corner spot and again you wouldn't have known if he had a leg injury uh by watching him today um i think that secondary i think the additions of Adebo and Javon Holland will kind of raise all boats a little bit you You know, now you're not talking about, you know, it's that one extra player who instead of the, you know, your your C player is not your your B player anymore, you know, and your B player is not your A player anymore. So all of a sudden you're the strength is in numbers. So on the back end, from a, you know, I guess logistic standpoint, I think they might be pretty good with some of the things they're going to do on the back end because of what they have up front. And the other guy, Justin, that to me is a huge puzzle piece in his defense is Bobby Okereke. And he talked to us today, you know, and the idea is that Okereke is still a little, he hasn't gone overboard and talked about how tough last year was, talked about his injuries, but he did not play well last year. He was not the Bobby Okereke that was the same as Wink Martindale's middle linebacker, the leader of the defense. You know, was it to me, it's too lazy to just say it's the system. It was not the system change totally that took Bobby Okereke from a player who, you know, was challenging Fred Warner for Pro Bowl honors the year before to last year. I mean, you had fans circling plays that Bobby Okereke, accusing him of quitting on plays, you know, against the Tampa Bay Bucs, that one long run that, you know, you still don't know what Bobby was doing on that play. I mean, he's a guy who, this team, if they get Bobby Okereke from two years ago, I think all of a sudden you're talking about a defense that, yes, we know how good they can be up front. Yes, we know they can be improved on the back. But Okereke as a playmaker in the middle of this defense is huge. So he's one of those guys that I'm looking at this year saying, you know what, is he a guy who's going to be here long-term? Or is he just kind of a guy who is here and now all of a sudden, come October, we're going to be talking about who can replace Bobby Okereke because that's a spot for the Giants to kind of improve this defense. So a big spot for me for Okereke on this defense going forward, no question. kind of just effort, but you know, can he, you know, is his cap hits for the next two years or 14 or $14.4 million the next two years? Can he be a linebacker that, you know, can he be a linebacker one, Mike linebacker, that's worth getting, you know, 14 million for the next two years for the New York football giants. And for, especially for a team that at least in my opinion, I did, I think they did some things to address stopping the run. I don't think they made the biggest leap in terms of their run defense because they didn't add any new linebackers. Obviously, they drafted Darius Alexander. How quickly is he going to come along? There's Chauncey Golston, but he's not an every-down player. So there's certain guys that they added that are good against the run, but all these guys are not going to be on the field at the same time, and you're going to keep your stars on the field, including some of your edge rushers that have some questions against the run. So it's Bobby Okereke. like dude can you can you be a linebacker one that's worth what your contract actually is so i think that's a great point and you know the way it is justin i mean you know Deontay Johnson is one of those guys who flashed last summer and it was almost like okay can he really be a player in this defense and you know darius darius Mursal was a you know he's a special teamer okay maybe he's not really a defensive player then you know he showed some flashes late in the season you know being in that situation now i i don't think they're front line starters but if Okereke comes out of the gates you know struggling a little bit i think there are going to be calls for the younger guys you know let's get the younger guys out there you know what are we what are we carrying Okereke for you know and i'm not saying that should be the way the front office thinks but you know look it reminds me a little bit and i say a little bit a little bit of what happened in 2022 with Blake Martinez and you know the idea that Blake Martinez ended up you know the giants did him a favor by releasing him they were just going to keep him because he was at low cost after the pay cut and they were going to keep him here and just have him on the roster and he went to Joe Shane and said look um you know i'll be here but you know whatever why move move the family that kind of thing so they let him go and if you remember people were shocked that oh yeah Blake was cut But you look at And now obviously he had the knee injury so that affects him But I kind of got those vibes And I'm not saying that's Bobby But it's a big year for Bobby Okereke I mean this could kind of be One of those things where you know I'm 28 years old I'm a veteran in this league I've done it I've done really well I got a big contract In free agency And now the pieces are together For this defense to be really really good This year next year and moving forward, Okereke, I would think, would want to be a part of that. And I think he's got to go out and kind of grab it a little bit. And you hope that another year under his belt, I think that maybe he can be that guy. Look, Justin, I call them the best free agent signing that they've had since Antrel Rolle. And I think Antrel Rolle, what he did for this franchise, playing every game for a five-year contract, may never be done again in free agency. uh so i i had a high standard for Bobby Okereke and i think he has that standard as well so i he's a player that i'm watching uh this summer to see where his trajectory goes and has he leveled off and if he has does this defense move past where Okereke is and start thinking about the future yeah and i and i do in terms of the system you know i i i think it's fair it's not just the system it's effort and and everything like that but i do think you mentioned the additions in the secondary that they made the you know Tyler Newb in year two um you know they made some additions i mentioned Chauncey Golson some interior guys that they added Darius Alexander obviously they drafted i think it's time like Shane Bowen this is a year where more responsibility needs to be put on the plate of the players and the i would say the most the guy in that defense that had the most responsibility last year outside of Dexter Lawrence was Bobby Okereke to just manage everything and manage, you know, when Dexter Lawrence is off the field, you know, the responsibilities that Bobby Okereke had I think was a lot. And I think why he kind of flourished under Wink is that there was kind of less thinking and more doing, more attacking and more going. So year two is going to be big, obviously, for Okereke. But even if you look back in the secondary, it's like Tyler Newburn was a ball hawk. He only touched the football one time last year. One pass defense. I think that's nuts. Now, it could be a secondary that's really young. Deontay Banks, year two slash year one of the system. And not the biggest. Even in college, he wasn't really the biggest ball hawk. Okay. Tyler Newburn, rookie year. Okay. Jason Penox, still new to the safety position. Okay. So, you know, the responsibility of we're going to disguise stuff and we're going to really go after the football and attack the football and zone coverage, man, whatever. I understand why last year, if there is a reason why the defense wasn't overly aggressive in the secondary in terms of disguising stuff and rotating pre-snap, post-snap, et cetera, I understand that. But this year, there is no excuse for it. You have veterans here. You have guys that, again, Tyler Newburn, second year in the system. You have guys that have attacked the football in the past before, whether it's in the pros or in college. now it's time to giddy up and go and that's going to be i don't know how you were able to really tell that over the summer besides you know i don't know if they get interceptions you know and it's one of those things if the defense gets interceptions over the summer then you're worried about the quarterbacks throwing interception so i don't really it's going to be i don't think it's going to be something that we're going to know until like games get started but that's something that i'm thinking about too in terms of the defense yeah yeah no absolutely i mean i think you know this is this isn't Shane Bowen's defense right now this needs to be the New York Giants defense and i think they need to work together as a staff and be more creative and put more on the players uh you know on their plates like you said and i think you know look this is not a vanilla league from a defensive perspective you can't survive just sitting back in the NFL anymore Teams are going to attack, especially in this division, and for the Giants to survive, you've got the people now, you've got the personnel, you've got to kind of stand up behind that and say, you know what, we need to put our players in position to truly succeed. So yeah, that'll be a storyline, like you said, all the way through the summer, and we'll still be talking about it when they head to Washington in week one, to the idea of where's this defense and what do they got going. i want to ask you some kind of just like cliff notes on on some guys and some backup positions and things like that um you know we know that Evan Neal second team guard today left guard that was pretty well reported where was Marcus Bow lining up primarily today i had him primarily at right tackle so i think they're probably looking at that as a future, Andrus' contract is up after this year maybe you know can he play tackle uh can they kick him inside do they need to kick him inside right away uh so right now i look uh i look at that that's where he was right tackle for OTA too okay and um any other and again you've you've only been there for one day and and at this and also i think it's it could be seen as a as a good thing that there's not a ton of like quote-unquote position battles like a lot of the starters are kind of already decided of course there's depth questions on on a team like this but do you have like any backup notes or certain guys that you're monitoring close that maybe people aren't talking about you know obviously hi it's a big talking point he was out there like you said with the ones with uh with with neighbors not there uh certain guys in the wide receiver room there's some enticing names that are even like interior defensive line depth nothing on the interior defensive line i think the interior offensive line is going to stack up very interesting with Greg Van Roten at right guard you have Evan Neal in that mix now uh you have Jake Kubas um and you have Aaron Stinney who they liked last year as a reserve so i'm not sure if you can carry all four of those guys plus John Michael Schmitz at center so that'll be an interesting thing to see how the interior line shakes out plus you have Bowe as an option to kick inside if that works out that's one spot um I think you know at this point tight end is going to be very interesting can Daniel Bellinger hold on to his spot and have more of an impact than he had last year because I think you've got Theo Johnson I think Chris Manhertz proved that he's you know a solid piece especially in the running game last year uh and I think you have Thomas Fedone as a seventh-round pick. He's better than a seventh-round pick. I mean, the injuries are what knocked him down. So I think Bellinger is one of those guys who needs to kind of put a lock on his position this summer because I think Fedone is going to be coming, and I think that when you talk about what they have in that tight end room, I'm not sure if they have room for four guys. So it'll be interesting to see if that becomes a battle that we all talk about. and you know as as teams as the Giants have I don't think any team and I don't think any NFL team likes this uh but the Giants have had a couple guys Darius Slayton has been one of those guys that have gotten the the performance escalator yeah yeah uh Darnay Holmes uh he was a guy that got it I think he wound up getting cut the Giants wanted to try and trade Slayton before 2022 glad they didn't um and I think I think Bellinger is also eligible for that escalator if I'm not wrong Yeah, that's something to keep an eye on, definitely when we get to later in the summer. Yeah. I want to finish off with one more thing. One more thing. And we talked a lot of quarterbacks at the start, and I'll finish off with some quarterbacks. Art, you've been covering the team. This is only your second year covering the team, believe it or not. That's how young you are. No, but I need to hear the leadership and the energy that, I mean, we could even include Jackson Dart in this, but because they're veterans and because they've, you know, I think you've spoken to them more maybe at this point. Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston, I don't know if we've ever, I mean, this is even going back to Eli, the whole home Eli Manning. Like, the leadership and the energy that they bring, it is, I am sure, unlike anything that you've seen at the quarterback spot since you've gotten here. You know, Justin, I think when it comes to Russell Wilson, You know look The guy's got the ring that he won In the shadow you know in MetLife Stadium So you know What he brings to the table I think the personalities Kind of give a different feel in the locker room You know and some of the guys talked about You know look we understand That you know they're at This point when they walk In the locker room people know Who Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston are There's not much talk about What they're going to be so I think ultimately the leadership is going to come from Jackson Dart's fire but i think there's a calming presence with Russell Wilson that this Giants team needed that quarterback and there aren't any questions about what he's done at the highest level um ultimately can he get to that point gonna be fun for us to watch right but i do think that quarterback is look they played four quarterbacks last year they can't get any worse right Giants fans don't want to hear that no we We retire that phrase. We have retired that phrase. Exactly. No, but certainly they're crossing their T's. They're dotting their I's. Hey, they certainly cannot point to the quarterback room this year. I think they've done it. They did it last year, 2022. It was a strange year all within itself, but I think last year, kind of like from the get-go, they were looking at the quarterback room being like, if this year is going to go haywire, it's going to be because of that room. so no doubt Art appreciate you as always my friend uh we're gonna see you uh i'll see you at training camp and uh and we're gonna and we're gonna catch up i hope you enjoy your spring and Summer sounds good, Justin. Thanks man, thanks for having me on and best you know best for a quiet June and quiet beginning of July and then we'll be out there at East Rutherford and doing it all again I love it, thanks Art. All right, Justin, thanks man, all right, thank you to Art Stapleton for coming on the show we will see you next week I don't know what I'm going to be doing next week I may do a solo episode I may bring somebody on I may take about a couple hours to dive into some Giants stuff and rewatch some stuff and have somebody on I don't exactly know what I'm going to do yet but I had a good time with Art Stapleton appreciate everybody that's listening, appreciate everybody that's here I'll see you next week with something I may even go you know what I may even go live next week I kind of want to go live so I may go live and and I may have an episode next week. So I'll see you then. Take it away, Joey. It starts today. Let's go Giants! We, we, we!