Under the radar training camp stories + Giants Mailbag | 995

Hello and welcome back to Talking Giants presented by the Fanatic Sportsbook. Today is July 13th, 2026, and we have a Giants mailbag for you. I am coming from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I'm here at the All-Star Game, All-Star Week for John Boy Media, my first ever All-Star Week with the company. It's a lot easier to pay for a train ticket than a plane ticket for the football guy. Have a fun John Boy Media episode coming in the back end of the week. Stay tuned for that. But Sean Moresh, you're my great friend. The war on work has ended. The war against work, I should say, has has ended for you. You've been vacationing out in Los Angeles and whining and dining with celebrities and Tony, Tony Hawk. How are you doing? It's great to see you, my friend. Yes. One clarification. Not Tony Hawk, the Hawk, the show, the Hawk that's coming out. But wait, did I just get that completely wrong? Yes, there is a well, it's kind of funny. There is a new show coming out called The Hawk. And this is not for like promotion, but just this is the no, this is the best promotion. The fact that I've messed this up so bad. So, yeah, Will Ferrell plays a golfer called The Hawk. No freaking way. I thought it was for Tony Hawk. No, but there's a yeah. You know what? I actually am not going to give away a spoiler, but like there might be a Tony Hawk connection in the show. Oh, OK. Which is why it's very funny, because you would need screeners to know that. And I was like, wait a minute. What does Justin got going on here? So, yeah. Yeah. So I went out and did some of that for work and, you know, kind of settled in and getting ready to go back for more work. But hey, it's All-Star Week, Justin. I'm very happy for you in Philadelphia. Did you leave any feces outside Lincoln Financial Field? Not yet. OK, yeah. I have an idea, though. I have an idea for a pretty for for I think it's going to be fun. Whenever I get in front of the whenever I get in front of the three same because they have the three stadiums, right? Yeah, it's three. They're all in the same parking lot. Plus, like a casino and a big Fargo. Well, they added a casino that wasn't here when I was in college. Oh, yeah, man. Showing you live in Wells Fargo. What's the Citizens Bank and then the link? Yep. So I'm going to go in front of the I'm going to go in front of Wells Fargo and be like the New York Knicks defeated the Philadelphia 76ers here. Three, four weeks ago, the New York Yankees defeated the Philadelphia Phillies here in 2009. The New York Giants have defeated the Philadelphia Eagles here in 2013. Can we change that, please? Yes, I agree. Nuts. I agree. So nuts, man. The stadium birthed Victor Cruz, though. That's what we can look at. Yes. All that. That was the that the price that we had to pay. Yes. That's basically since the last time that we won two years after that. Do you remember the score of that game, by the way? Of that 2011 Eagle game? No, no, the 2013 Eagle game that we won in the league. No, I don't. Fifteen to seven. It was a gross. Nice. But you know what? A win's a win, Justin. We'll take 15 to seven this year. Yeah. Or else it would have been probably 2011. All right. So, Sean, so we have a mailbag today. It's going to be less mailbag. We do before training camp. We'll do one every month. Sean, why don't you take us away? What's going to be the first question? Yeah, first of all, unbelievable. Last one we'll do before training camp. Training camp starts pretty freaking nuts. Nuts. OK, Jano, what are some under the radar things you're looking forward to during training camp? OK, so I have a list. OK, I have a list and I have one through four. I really wanted five to make that round number. So that's where you're going to come in. OK, I have three that are not on this list. We'll boil them down. All right. It's seven. So it's a touchdown. Great. All right. Great. Go. How Matt Nagy, Brian Callahan, Greg Roman and John Harbaugh are all going to work together to build an offense. I want to save the Greg Roman point of this because I want to talk about Greg Roman a lot, but between how the players have talked about Greg Roman, like in the Giants huddle podcast, which we'll break down some of those quotes and what they've been saying this this spring. And, you know, this, you know, this OTA offseason period, like I have been wondering since they've put all of these people together, all of these former OCs, all of these former even head coaches, some of them, too, they've put all of these guys in a room and now they have to, you know, cook up something. They have to come up with an offense. How is that dynamic going to work together? Who is going to do what? Who is going to implement what? It seems like we're starting to get an answer on that. So that is number one. And honestly, that's not going to be seen on the field, Sean. Well, yes, it's going to be seen like I really want reporters and I think they're going to like start to get insight from these guys. And I think they will be insightful. I don't think this is a Brian D'Abel situation where they just won't give you an answer. I think these guys are insightful. They're veterans. This isn't their first rodeo. I want to know how they're working together, because this is quite interesting. I completely agree. I'm so glad you brought up that it's going to have to be from players being kind of insightful, because, Justin, I think the underlying layer to this question is going to be how much will we even get to see in training camp? Like, no, you won't. You won't get to see this in training camp. No, but like players, it'll be players and also coaches speaking. Because, first of all, what exactly is even going to be offensively available in front of the media? It's already felt like kind of secretive in training camp and OTAs as far as when the media was allowed to view stuff, when they weren't very limited. And then when you look at what practices are available to the public since that West Virginia schedule came out, really not that many is kind of the answer. Like, this is not like a, hey, open the doors, come watch every training camp practice kind of training camp, it looks like. So I think it's going to be fascinating by the time we get to the regular season to see if what the players have said matches what now we finally get to see in real time. Yeah, I mean, it kind of it's seemingly going in the direction of Greg Roman being the run game coordinator, which we really like. Right. Which we expected. You know, Brian, Brian Callahan being the quarterback coach, obviously, you know, working with Jackson Dart hand in hand. And then I, you know, I guess Matt Nagy is going to be the one that kind of like designs the the passing the passing offense of it. Like our overall fan theory thought it's seemingly may be coming true. Like that's a lot of a lot of cooks in the kitchen. But if there's one guy that I think can put it all together, it's it's John Harbaugh. It's definitely yeah. And it's definitely a lot of cooks in the kitchen. But it's also trying to hopefully orchestrate an offense that plays to each of these coaches strengths, like where Matt Nagy probably failed at points was the run game. Greg Roman where he thrived was the run game. So you kind of you hope for lack of a better term, Justin, you put together an all star team of offensive coaches and they kind of sing in harmony. Yeah, I kind of I think at this point, maybe not even an all star, because at this whenever you're whenever you're demoted, right? There's Nate Nagy was a head coach demoted. Brian Callahan was head coach demoted. Greg Roman was an OC. Now he's demoted. I was going through. I was just reading like what were Chargers fans saying about Greg Roman? So I was just going through Twitter last night. Chargers fans don't necessarily love Greg Roman at all. Like if anything, like they blame him for like the majority of the problems that Justin Herbert faced last year for that team, which like it was like a it was like a vitriol hatred for for Greg Roman. But Greg Roman isn't here to call the offense and run the offense. He's here to hopefully hopefully install what he's freaking good at and then chime in whatever he's going to needed besides that. So that's the hope and that's the expectation. Why don't you give another one since you have three? OK, the number one one for me would be what exactly is the usage for Evan Neal and Josh Azudu? Because I think many of us, when calling out a 53 man roster, didn't I mean, I guess you considered Azudu, but like I would say the majority of people just kind of cast off and go, well, they have enough bodies on the O-line here. Remember when they signed Evan Neal back and everybody kind of gasped and went, oh, my God, what is he doing? Like it was one of the more shocking things. Yeah. For two days, it was probably like the biggest story in the world. OK, well, now we're approaching training camp, Justin. That was so big for two days. What exactly are we looking at when we get here? We're going to do more on Evan Neal later. But I do think that's an interesting thing for me. It's just we we all reacted in a certain way. I mean, is he all of a sudden getting a ton of reps when the cameras come on? Well, I guess we'll find out. Yeah, I would say no, because I just think he's I don't think he's a good player. I wouldn't. I would, too. But again, it's what do you under the radar? What are you looking forward to? I want to see what's going on here. Yeah. What is the real deal with him? Yeah, again, I think I just think the real deal is that he's not a good football player and the pads are going to come on. And unless he's transformed his footwork and he's suddenly become a more balanced player, what are we? This is year five of Evan Neal. If suddenly he just fixes the thing that's been the main cause of him being a very bad, objectively, just a very bad football player, unless he just miraculously fixes that, then I don't think this is anything but just Evan Neal offseason. Azudu is the interesting one, Sean, because so they have Marcus Bowe at swing tackle, and then they also have J.C. Davis, which they they're running him out there at tackle, which I really disagree with. I just don't think that he has a quick footwork and just the overall footwork to survive at tackle in the NFL. I want him to I think he can possibly thrive at guard down the line. So I kind of don't want to mess with that development. Why are we why are we going to put him at tackle if we feel like his development just if he's long term position can be at guard? They disagree with that, which is fine. They're the football people. Who does that sound like? Sounds like Evan Neal. It sounds like Josh Azudu when all of a sudden he was playing tackle. We're like, well, no, no. Josh Azudu is the complete opposite. Josh Azudu has the footwork. That's why Josh Azudu can can I put can in quotations? That's why Josh Azudu can play tackle because he has the quick feet. But he can't. We've seen him play tackle. He can't. And they never gave him runway guard, Justin. They ruined Josh Azudu that previous staff by not just allowing him to go in their guard. So when you explain the J.C. Davis, that's the feel like it. So but so in my opinion, they have one backup tackle. They don't have another. They don't have another tackle. And I think on this roster with the way that this 53 man roster is organized, you can keep two quarterbacks. You're you can keep three running backs. I know Harbaugh's like to carry four in the past. You can keep three running backs. I don't think they're going to carry four tight ends. But Patrick Ricard is going to be, you know, a fullback that, you know, you can add as like a tight end to. I think there is a potential to have 10 offensive linemen, which would possibly carve a path out for Josh Azudu to be that second tackle, which would mean that would make me feel a little bit better if there were two backup tackles on the team instead of just Marcus Bowe. Now, OK, all I know is if we got to the point where it's Marcus Bowe at left tackle and Josh Azudu at right tackle or vice versa, that that's going to make you feel better at any point in time. No, it won't. You're going to be losing your mind. I think I would feel better about Josh Azudu at tackle than than J.C. Davis. So, OK, or the International Pathway Kid that will be stashed away in the practice court. My another one for me going to the defensive side of the ball, how the secondary looks and how it's lining up. And this is something that we will be able to see at at training camp. This positionless defense that and is it a coach speak thing or is it for real? Like our nickel corner is going to be very interchangeable with safeties. You know, our Darius Washington being this, you know, being this chess piece. You know, even like a player like Elijah Campbell, who's made plays during the spring, he's a guy that I have my eye on. Jason Pinnock, where does Jason Pinnock kind of fit into all of this as a player that, you know, you can't say anymore that he's, you know, he's still new to the safety position. No, Jason Pinnock has been in the league now for four or five years, and he's going into yet another system. So he's had experience in a couple of different systems. Now, is this just a nice reunion piece or is Jason Pinnock like actually a part of this team? So I'm very, very curious. And that doesn't even talk about like Greg Newsome. What does his summer look like? Nickel corner, outside corner. Is he starting Colton Hood emergence of him? So how the secondary looks, how it's lining up the way that cave on Thibodeau was talking about it. They're moving fast. They're playing fast. I think Denard Wilson is going to allow a secondary to play fast because he's gone everywhere. And that's what he's allowed his guys to do, especially as a DB coach. And when he doesn't have a, you know, a CFL XFL secondary with the Tennessee Titans over the last two years, I'm with you. And my one of my three questions was going to be what exactly is a Darius Washington training camp? So this kind of ties right in. I think that makes that whole thing fascinating. And even when it comes to lining up in the secondary, Justin, last year, we had a staff that, let's be honest, probably reluctantly didn't want to accelerate the Jackson Dark timetable. Like when we look back at training camp, he was probably ready for week one. What is going to be their acceleration slash patience level and lining up the secondary in terms of Colton Hood and his reps? Because right. Like Greg Newsome is there and that's fine. And Tay Banks is there. And that's fine to a lesser extent. But if Colton Hood comes out and it's kind of gangbusters, are they going to be more reluctant or more urgent to line him up with more of them? They're going to put them in. I hope so. If Colton Hood, if Colton Hood looks even see as long as Colton Hood isn't like disastrous, which as rookie corners can be, they absolutely can. And that doesn't mean and I don't think that'll mean that Colton Hood is doomed for his NFL career. I think playing cornerbacks is playing cornerback is really tough, and that's drafting rookie corners is something that has always really scared me. If Colton Hood doesn't look disastrous, I think he's going to start. OK, good. Giants did that with Aaron Ross. Corey Webster was a second round pick and he was terrible to start. But they brought him along and then he hooked up Lyon. And then you had a guy like Prince of Mookamora who was injured for like weeks. He comes in his first game, has the Eagles, but he played right away, but he was also injured. And then DeAndre Baker sucked. And I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Eli Apple came right in and played that. I mean, that's it. But I think the main difference there with some of with some of those examples, I mean, I think Eli Apple was out of like necessity, you know, and also you draft the first round play. You know, you draft the player in the first round. They're going to play right away. Same thing with Baker. I mean, bringing those guys along, it was just out of pure necessity because they needed cornerbacks. Now, the Giants obviously needed cornerbacks here, too. But I just like how they're built, where they have the option of we have other guys that we can really point to like Newsome being the biggest one with NFL experience, NFL pedigree. But again, second round pick early second round pick. They really like them. They had a first round grade on him. If Colton Hood is ready to rock and roll, I think he will start. But even more than just who is lining up where in the secondary. Yeah, like I said, that's going to be important to me, but how they're playing. I think we can see some defensive dominated practices and periods of time. Very similar to what we saw in 2022 when Wink first got in here and that offense was installing Brian Dable system and things like that. I think there is a chance that we could see that type of camp from the defense. And then we'll have to, you know, do the back and forth as fans like up. Should we be worried about the offense? No, but they're installing stuff. Maybe the coaching staff is intentionally making things difficult on them. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that'll be that whole classic camp battle of, you know, what? What is the correct thing to be thinking of as a fan? But I do think some defensive defensive dominated camp, we could be lined up for it. And that ties us into the next point you were going to make about one of the under the radar things you're having. Yeah. Like how is this staff making life difficult for Jackson Dart? I don't think Jackson Dart right now, if Brian Dable was here and Brian Dable, this was still that system, then I think great. Like just do your typical install and have like a typical training camp. Right. But now I do think there needs to be a little bit of a reset for Jackson Dart, where I like what Brian Dable did last summer. I like how there are certain hoops that he had to jump through to progress as the summer went on, because he really like he started last summer and he didn't look awesome, right? He didn't look fully ready. He didn't look fully comfortable. And some of the reports that are coming out of the spring is that it's very similar now. I do want Callahan Nagy Arbaugh. I do want his life to be a little difficult in the summer to kind of go through that progression again, because I think he's going to be doing some different things that he's never done before. Yeah. And look, as far as all of that stuff goes, I think that we're going to have probably for the first week to two weeks. The main thing being out of training camp is that Jackson Dart is struggling and you will have, I think, a little bit of moment of panic released by some media that bleeds into some fans. But I think that that will, in the end, be purposeful. And by the end of camp, I think we'll be humming along with Dart. That would be my thought. And then you also added, Justin, is the team doing the little things right and avoiding the small mistakes? Yeah, you want. I know you would like this last summer, Sean. The amount of false start penalties and stoppages and practices and Brian Dable going nuts. Brian. Yeah, I didn't really fully see like Brian Dable. Brian Dable will probably go nuts at certain points, but it was like almost every freaking practice where there were talking like with first and second team players to like important, important reps, stoppages, false starts, mistakes. All right, line up and do it again. And eventually it took like a week and a half of these mistakes. They started yanking people, but it took them that long to start having consequences for these mistakes. I know Harbaugh is going to run a longer practice. So that was so I was thinking like, all right, we're making these mistakes and Dables running a short practice to begin with. Harbaugh ain't going to run no short practice. So I guess I I shouldn't be worried about like fully losing reps. But go out there and have a disciplined, clean summer, because what it ultimately did, Sean, last year. I remember this during the Broncos game. They were showing the graphic that the Broncos and the Giants were like two of the most highly penalized teams in the NFL. It led to a it led to a sloppy New York Giants team. And it started in the summer. Yeah, you're right. So that's OK. That's a good thing to look towards. And obviously, just the whole culture of Harbaugh within that is going to change the last one for me, Justin, under that, which is simply be in this I'm leaving for last. What the hell does this kicker situation look like? Oh, yeah. Dominic Zavada had a major leg up on Ben Soles. It felt like in the public practices. And obviously, they already waived Jason Sanders. But look, on opening day, Giants can need to make field goals and make their extra points. So what does this look like in kick? Yeah, I agree. OK, here we go. Are you sneaking something? Are you good? I want to I want to sneak in something I sneak in an ad read. Go ahead. So before we keep going with the mailbag, today's episode is sponsored by HIMS. The moment you notice something's off in the bedroom, it's tends to stick with you. Most guys sit on it longer than they should. HIMS makes it simple to actually do something about it with real treatment options, 100 percent on line. HIMS connects you with licensed health care providers online. No awkward appointments. No pharmacy lines complete a simple online intake. A provider reviews your information and have prescribed your treatment ships directly to your door. If one option is right, there are additional treatment options available. So you can find what works best to get simple online access to personalize affordable care for ED, hair loss and more. Visit HIMS.com slash Giants. That's HIMS.com slash Giants HIMS.com slash Giants. Not available in all 50 states. Prescription requires the website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra, and it's a registered trademark of Viatris specialty LLC. HIMS is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. Thank you to HIMS. So next question. All right. Next question from a dart to neighbors. Assuming Malik is not healthy to start the year in parentheses, hopefully he is. What do you expect the identity of the offense to be? I'm hoping it's just running the ball down people's throat. Now, this says both just to read the other one. We'll connect. Oh, yeah. Bring me the other one, too. All right. This is from Tom Sida with Brian Callahan's improvement on Jackson Dart's development and trying to make him take snaps under center more often. Should we expect this offense to be completely redeveloped immediately, or will this coaching staff try to stick with what Dart already does well and try to gradually add more to his plate as the weeks go on? OK, where are you at with with this? Because this is something that I've been thinking about all all kind of spring and now all summer of what is the identity of this offense going to be? OK, so well, let me just add to Tom's part. They're not going to like strip down and take away what Jackson Dart was doing. Well, this is obviously near to an add on, which me and Justin have highlighted plenty in terms of the stuff under center and all of that. But I think a lot of the stuff that Jackson Dart did well, they're not going to take that away. Like a great coach allows the quarterback to do what he does. Well, well, but tries to throw more on his plate as far as what the identity of the offense is going to be. I think it is going to be a lot of run heavy. I think you don't add Patrick Ricard and you don't add a Francis. Well, you can, but you know what I mean? You add Francis Moenow, who can plow people. And I think where you you talk about in football late in the season, you want to be able to run the ball or cold weather, wear down defenses. I think to start the year, this is going to be the identity as they try to add more to Jackson Dart's throwing and seams and build off the run game. I think by the end of the season, the past game will be thriving off of the great greatness of the run game, or at least in theory, that should be there. But yeah, I think it's going to be a ground and pound to start the year where but an untraditional ground and pound where the quarterback has the ability to turn around and just absolutely slice you with a big play down the field when need be, as opposed to other quarterbacks who run a ground and pound offense. And there's no fear that they're going to be able to throw the ball. Yeah, man, I think the easy, the easy answer and the easy thing to say is just, oh, yeah, well, there's going to run the ball. I mean, John Harbaugh runs Greg Romans here. That's just what they're going to do, right? I think that's the easy thing to say. But I've tried to really break down the advanced stuff of, you know, neutral throw rate, early down pass frequency and things like that. This is where Nagy really comes in, because even Nagy with Chicago in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, basically the pre Justin Fields year that he had in like twenty twenty one. Nagy was not afraid to throw the ball, even with bad quarterback play and a bad offense. And then, of course, when you think of where he's coming from, there is no team that throws the ball more than the Kansas City Chiefs. So that is the offense coordinator. That is the guy that is calling play. You have a guy that wants to throw the ball. He wants to throw it on early downs. Ironically enough, before I give this before I give this stat in this this instance run, second and one second and two second and short. What do you want to do? Are you looking to just get the first down to avoid to avoid third down? Or are you looking, hey, let's second it short. We maybe got we maybe got three attempts at this. Let's take a shot downfield. Depends on the approach. It depends on the opponent in the game scenario. Let's say let's let's say you're playing the Dallas Cowboys defense, which, hey, their defense is improved, but, you know, it may still not be that great. And you're and it's zero zero in the first quarter, like just a game, a neutral situation. I want to take some sort of a shot. OK, I think we have a coaching staff with Greg Roman and Matt Nagy that they do not do that. OK, we are going to run the ball. And I think they're just going to get a first down and avoid third down, which like part of me doesn't hate. But also part of me is like, that's the time that you can maybe get some big plays. That's the time where you can start to. All right, let's come out of 12 personnel and then do play action and then try and rip a big play there. A lot of the a lot of the stuff that I've been looking at is this is a staff and all of these guys, they just want to run the ball in second or short and just get the first down. Again, I think the easy answer is to say that they're just going to run the ball a lot, but even Greg Roman with the Chargers the last two years, I think he did this out of necessity because of how bad the offensive line was. He threw the ball a ---- ton with Justin Gerber. I think if Greg Roman has a quarterback that he trusts that can throw the ball, which this was probably bad on him and shame on him for not trusting Lamar Jackson towards the latter part of his Ravens years there, that maybe they kept Greg Roman for a year too long because Lamar was ready to take on more as a passer. But if Greg Roman as a quarterback that he trusted and throw the ball, he's going to let them throw the ball. It's not just all right. Well, we're back with the 49ers and we're back with and we're back in early Lamar days of we're just going to run the ball, run the ball, run the ball. Again, fascinated to just see how this works out with all of these different guys, because they have even shown Nagy and Greg Roman, they've even shown the potential to want to throw the ball more than people think. So here would be my fear with that, too. You just mentioned a lot of Greg Roman. Remember, Greg Roman is going to be the run game coordinator. I know. So where does he fit? Where does he fit in all this? You know, the Matt Nagy thing is fascinating, because when I think about Matt Nagy and the situation that he's entering this year, I have bad divisional round 2008 Giants vibes with Kevin Gilbride thinking he was about to get the Raiders job and wanted to prove to the world how smart he was and how much he could have Eli Manning throw the ball all over the place on a windy day. And I just hope that Matt Nagy doesn't look at Jackson Dart as like his cash cow to go show how smart he is and throw it will just to, you know, go get a head coaching job after like lean into your strengths early, especially Malik neighbors is out. And all of that stuff that you want to do passing game wise. Well, if what you're putting on tape is a lot of men here, they are running the ball on second down and short like that. I do think as the season goes on, you'll be able to surprise some people and make some bigger plays while just handling your business early. Yeah, that's the blueprint of the season is to start off run heavy. And then as you install and dart gets more comfortable, neighbors comes back healthy and everybody just gets more reps with each other. That is the hope that as the season goes on, there will be a development of Jackson Dart. There will be a of, you know, an evolution of how this offense evolves. And we can start to throw the ball a little bit more. That is the blueprint for the season. One hundred percent for me. I mean, even considering the opponents that were playing the first six weeks of the season, Dallas, I still feel like you can run the ball. L.A. is just a monster. I don't know what you're going to do there. But the next six games, you're not playing. I don't think you're going to be playing teams that should be putting up a lot of points against you. So you should be able to play a little bit more game manager, run the ball, control the game on your own terms type of situation. And Sean, you know, talking about, OK, but this Giants, this Giants offensive line, this Giants offense, they're going to run the ball a lot for the first part of the season. The biggest strength of this offensive line is their pass blocking. And this is where Greg Roman comes in with the run game and the install that they're doing. It's it's pretty it's pretty complicated, man. Like the Giro, you know, Andrew Thomas went on the Giants huddle podcast and he said, you know, the installs that they're doing with Giro, it's it's crazy. You know, they're putting in a bunch of a bunch of different schemes and a bunch of different stuff. Isaiah likely when asked about what a great Roman run game is like, just finishing and violent when you see coach Roman's offensive line to running backs to play style scheme wise, it's really just getting nitty nitty gritty to show New York that we're going to run the ball. We're going to run the ball effectively. Andrew Thomas said he's got some crazy schemes for us to be able to be physical, but also catch the defense slipping. They can never predict what we're going to do. I think the way that they the way that I think that they're installing this offense with a lot of zone, a lot of pulling, everybody's going to be pulling tackles, guard centers, Jermaine Luminor came on the show and talked about he really likes to pull as a tackle. And that's not something that he did a ton in the previous offense. And I think he's going to be doing it more. But what I think this offense is going to require, Sean, it's not just man and man. If I heard I was listening to Brian Billick talk about this between like the difference between man and man and zone. If you got great players, run a man, you know, run run man schemes. If you got great coaching run zone. But I think that's going to take time to install. And it's going to take a lot of reps with the offensive lineman together to make sure that they get it right. Yeah. No, no doubt about it. OK. Sliding on or here. What do you want to do? I know I just I just gave a big dump of thoughts. You did. I liked it, though. Does it? It's information. We're three weeks from training camp. That's what it's all about. So we want Greg Oreo here. The first one, Greg Oreo. Great name. What type? I hope he's not double stuff. What type of atmosphere can we expect in the locker room? Will it be all business or will Coach Harbaugh allow parlor games? Parlor games. So funny. Pool, foosball, et cetera. What impressions do you get regarding Coach Harbaugh's handling of disciplinary matters? All right. So, Justin, this is interesting. As far as like the game stuff, there is nothing more infuriating than a giant team sucking. And then we get like the media clips and just hear ping pong in the background. I mean, how many times does that happen every year? We're like, Jesus, enough. Can this team focus and lock in? I don't think that John Harbaugh is going to come in looking. He's too good a coach for too long to come in and be like the enemy and tell, you know, the young player that's used to that kind of thing. They can't have it. What I do think will happen is similar to Coughlin. You're going to start with it. You guys start losing a lack of focus. We'll take away the ping pong tables for a little bit. We'll take away the dark board for a little bit. But I think you will get that to start. And in terms of the atmosphere, I think you got one shot when you're more of the hard nose coach than less the players coach in terms of I think that the players are really going to hold on and grab onto the fact that camp's going to be hard early. And I think that they're going to embrace the fact that they're a serious football team again, because I think for the guys that have been here, they've lost long enough to know, hey, man, we need this. Yes. And for the guys that are new here, a lot of them earlier used to Harbaugh to begin with. And then for the rookies, look, I mean, rookies, the first camp is probably hard regardless because the coaches are always usually hard. So I think culturally, I think there is going to be an energy about the hard nature of camp. That's what I would expect this year. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think to start, at least to start, Harbaugh is going to have that grace. He's going to have that grace of people know that he's been there and he's done that. People know that he produces success, sustains success over a very, very long period of time. I think he will have that grace automatically to start. And again, I'm just going to rephrase what you said, because I agree with it. I think these players are yearning for more structure. I think they're yearning for some sort of discipline. And, you know, again, I think to start and to be held accountable, I think it's going to suck if you don't produce results and then it's going to get really old, really quick. And it's just going to be like, well, I'd rather have the guy. I'd rather lose with the guy that that at least isn't hard on me than the guy that is hard on me, because if we're going to lose regardless, then I'd rather just be easier. But Gunnar, I think Gunnar said it late last year. This was still when Kafka was in the building. He was saying it late last year about like, yeah, man, I've been here for a couple of years. I kind of I kind of want somebody that's going to put us in our place a little bit because I feel like we need it. So I think there is a locker room of guys that 100 percent do feel that. And at least to start in this camp, I think that they're going to embrace it. Even somebody like Deontay Banks, even somebody like Evaniel. Like, let's just use those those guys as examples. You know, when we talked about Harbaugh comes in in this introductory press conference and says, we want to get guys that don't like football out of here. We pointed to those two guys and Hyatt. I'm not including Hyatt in this conversation. Hyatt doesn't exist in my brain. No, not for me and Harbaugh. But with those two guys, like, I think they feel with Harbaugh that this is probably like their last, like, really good shot. Right. At least to try to make some money in this league. Right. For Deontay Banks is to make a little money. I don't think this is Deontay Banks's last shot in the NFL. I think Evaniel does maybe like this maybe is seeing how long he went in for agency with nobody signing him and getting the getting the league minimum. I think this may be like legit, like just his last shot. And I think for right now, those players are embracing that. Even if we've had questions about their commitment level in the past. Yeah, well, they can and they can't care about the rest of our questions with the commitment level. All they have is a clean slate to show John Harbaugh. They have a real commitment level. So that's where we almost hit the wall. That's on them. That's on them to eliminate their own past. Yeah. All right. More Greg Oreo. Oh, yeah. More Greg Oreo. Back to back. Greg. Back to back. Do you think in Dennard Wilson's defense will see a Herculean individual effort and corresponding individual sack total from one player or more of a spread out sack total for the entire defense? Oh, I got to read that again. Do you think that the Narb Wilson's defense will see a Herculean individual effort and corresponding individual sack total from one player or more of a spread out sack total for the entire defense? Now I get it. For example, with Brian Burns, will Brian Burns accumulate 19 individual sacks or will all edge rushers have lower numbers, 8 to 10, for a higher overall team total? Okay, interesting question. I got there, but interesting question. Yeah, man, you know, in my brain, it's such a good idea that Dual Quarter is going to get 14 sacks, Brian Burns is going to get 11, you know, Kayvon's going to get 7, and then, you know, even Orvar Reese is going to get 7.5. That'd be sick, but I don't think that's all going to happen. No, I was going to say, I would focus on this. Try to get to like top 5 in the league with sacks, with the bevy of pass rushers you have. But I think even getting there, it probably still is one guy gets to double digits and the others probably just fall short, is my guess. Like, I think there will be a giant on this team with 13 or more sacks. Who that will be, I think a lot of us are speculating, Abdul Carter. It can very well be Brian Burns again, we can be stunned like snacks with the Kayvon stuff. But I think generally speaking, you probably still get to the point where one singular pass rusher is the shining star above the rest, because that just tends to happen even on teams with a bevy of pass rushers. Yes, yes. Who do you think that's going to be? I think it's going to be Abdul Carter this year. And I think to start the year, here's why I think it's going to be Abdul Carter. I think to start the year between Dallas, the Rams, then you get to the Titans, the Cardinals. I think early on in the year, you're still going to have the, hey, Brian Burns was one of the best pass rushers in football. Let's focus our resources there. Abdul Carter, I think, is going to get off to a fast start. I think Abdul Carter, after three weeks of this year, is probably going to have like five sacks. Which is funny because it's kind of what Brian Burns did last year, if you remember. He had like 2-2-1 or 2-1-2, whatever it was. I think you're going to get a similar start to the year in terms of those sack numbers from Abdul Carter, where they're just stashed in the pocket and then the rest of the year just kind of hums along. And you look back and you're like, oh, OK, you have 15 sacks. Well, you had five in the first three weeks, like that kind of deal. Let's just say, hypothetically, I would view Giants need to be top ten in sacks. So the Saints had 45, the Broncos had 68 last year, which is nuts. But the Titans had 42. Let's bump that number up to 45. OK. Tenth, right? I'm going to put 13 for Abdul Carter. I'm going to put 10 for Burns. Still double digits. So you're basically at halfway of that number now. Yeah, right? But you have Arvel Reese, you have Kayvon Thibodeau, you have two from Chauncey Golston. Six. I'm putting six for Reese. And then how many do we want to put for Kayvon? Contract year, probably the other people would think, let's say six and a half. I hate to throw a half in there. I mean, that's 30. That's 35 and a half right there. And then, you know, you give your token two for Darius Alexander. There's one for Shelby Harris, two for Drew Phillips. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it adds up. Tremaine Edmonds. Does he get involved? So they I mean, what this is telling me is if those four guys, if those four guys take care of their ----, then this team should be 50. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think and I think even in some in some retrospect, six and a half sacks and six sacks for Kayvon and Arvel Reese in a world that in a world that is also somewhat conservative. Yes. No doubt. And like, you don't know. Right. What? We could have a big Darius Alexander year. We don't see coming where there's like six sacks from him. You never know. Yeah. I mean, he had three and a half last year. Right. And where was he? Exactly. I mean, it was all at the end of the year. And we're like, wait, who's getting all the tackles? Crazy. Oh, and then that brings into the point of the higher blitz percentage with the North Wilson. Did you mention that? Yeah. I I kind of I don't think this is going to happen. But I wrote down in my notes here. You think there's a world where we see Denard Wilson get more aggressive? And, you know, I think even like he was in Tennessee. Yeah. As in Kayvon. Didn't somebody talk about that? This gave on did it. The town hall. This is going to be more aggressive. Like Winx defense. Like. And that's it. That threw me off. Yes. He said like wink and everybody dropped their panties and went. And what that really tells me is. Okay. Why is he going to be blitzing as much? I'm sure that there are more nuanced football things that cave on Thibodeau is thinking about. Like, okay, this is what's similar from. Hold on. No, be careful when you use the word blitz. Because remember a blitz is registered as sending more than four. Right. It could just be more disguise looks. It's a very it's a very flawed. It's very flawed staff because, you know, you can have you can have how many people drop back. But then a nickel corner comes and you know, do they count that as a bright and like with our eyes that is a blitz, but that's not statistically a blitz. And I think when you just read the blitz numbers from the Nord Wilson, you can get thrown off with that. Right. But he does have better personnel here than than Tennessee. Yeah. And you look at the trends of the NFL right now of Vance Joseph, Brian Flores, like it's kind of having a high blitz rate and stack in the box a little bit. It's kind of it's kind of coming back because of how big NFL offenses are getting. But also we've been talking about all off season to that. Well, John Harbaugh is now living ever since he let go of Wink Martindale, they moved on from Wink Martindale and they bring in the Mike McDonald's of the world and the Jesse Minter types. Right. What they're now doing is, well, we want to play. We want to play lighter. We want to put less linebackers and stuff on the field or safeties and corners on the field and still be able to stop the run. Less defensive tackles on the field and we still want to be able to stop the run. But that doesn't mean that you can't have a high blitz percentage. Right. Exactly. And again, Drew Phillips for all the benching and all that stuff last year, his strength is getting down the hill and tackle. Oh, yeah. So use him in that way. Yep. Okay. You ready for this next one? All right. So do we do we come up with an answer of I hope that it's a. Oh, yeah. I hope that it's a spread sack total across an entire defense. I would be disappointed if I mean, unless Abdul Carter gets 17 sacks and he just runs away with it. Okay. Yeah. So I guess it is more cumulative. I guess my point is somebody still getting to the teams on this team. Either way, you slice it. Yeah, that would be my guess. So does that make it cumulative? Well, if they're in the top five, it's still cumulative with that one shining star, but you will have one shining star. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to do the stuff on the first game? You want to go to the let's go to the let's go to the Evan Neal offensive line question. Boss hog. Do you think they'll give Evan Neal realistic chance? I think this progression could have been moved along more if they would have let him get a chance. They declared he was going to be a guard last year, but he was a non factor and literally scratched each game and declared out with an injury, which was BS. Well, first of all, I'm not going to get mad at the coaching staff last year because there was probably more to that with Evan Neal. There is more to that with Evan Neal. Definitely. And to answer that question, he has a realistic chance. If the more to that with Evan Neal is cut out and he comes in completely locked in. I just think that the odds are stacked against Evan Neal based on the roster and the names that are here. But I think Evan Neal is kind of, hey, let me just put in the work and maybe I'll get lucky with a couple injuries or two, where it kind of slides me up throughout camp. I want to replace boss hogs. The name in boss hogs question, Evan Neal. Do you think they'll give Evan Neal a realistic chance? I want to replace that name with Daniel Foley. Okay. Well, they're going to give Daniel Foley a realistic chance. He was with horrible. Okay, but what a realistic chance for what? Well, how about this? Right off the bat? Are we positive? He's only doing right guard reps. Will he compete with John Runyon for the left guard spot? That's what I'm wondering. I mean, Patty, Patty came on the show and granted, she's the only one to talk about it, but it was a really it was a good point. It was a good point that she brought up and I know people on social media lost their freaking minds, but it was a good point for because of the context of why she said it. John Runyon is a light player. He is a light player at the Baltimore Ravens over the last couple of years have had one of the heaviest offensive lines in the NFL and horrible general generally leans in that direction of having an offensive line that is heavier as opposed to lighter and the trends in the NFL show. If you have a heavier offensive line, they are more effective as a run blocking unit, but less effective as a pass blocking unit and vice versa. If you have a lighter offensive line, generally like the Giants have kind of been over the last couple of years. If you have a lighter offensive line, then you have a better pass blocking unit, which the Giants have had over the last two years. So Runyon is not a horrible prototype interior offensive line. Absolutely not. But in the end, I still think John Harbaugh goes with talent and it goes with the best players. And I agree. And I'm hoping that is the case. But I think just ignoring that there is a player here that has started for John Harbaugh and has over a thousand snaps each of the last two years at guard and John Runyon, I forget the F the financial implications of it, right? $9 million. Okay, that's a cherry on top, right? I'm simply just talking about player fit. And what type of offense does John Harbaugh want to have? I hope it's still running. I hope it's running because he is a better player. And oh, my God. Like, I don't think I don't think Runyon will give you disaster plays. I think we'll give you bad plays. Yeah, I don't think he'll give you disaster plays. Daniel Filelli. Well, he is at times a disastrous football player, and I don't want that. And I'm curious if we'll ever learn this, but what will be the difference between a fake competition in camp and a real competition? Because John Runyon is not good enough not to have competition in camp under a John Harbaugh led approach that doesn't have any ties to Runyon. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure there's going to be a lot more splitting of reps early in camp because you're trying to light a fire under certain guys. But I'm curious how much of that is real, where they never plan on him losing that starting job compared to what we're reading about. But I don't think Runyon will be alone with that either. Okay. Who else is part of that? Surprise. Oh, for, like, camp competitions? We should save it. We literally have a camp battles episode coming up. Okay, so let's save it. But I think this is a theme I'm going to have, and maybe this is part of what we do with the camp battles. Is it a fake competition or a real competition? Oh, I like that. Okay, so let's stash that. Yeah, I have some thoughts. I like that format. All right. Do you want to go back to the first game one? No, let's do Max. Oh, I missed Max. I'm sorry. Max. Iks. Ikes? Iks? Ickys? Either way, I get that sometimes looking at Justin. We went to college together. Did you really? Yeah. How about that? In this city that I'm in right now. Philadelphia. How gross. One potential fan question answer. I'm currently deliberating it now. Rank the away games for fans to attend this upcoming season. Thinking Seattle or Indy. Now I got to go back to the schedule. Here we go. I totally lost this one at the bottom. Were you just at SoFi? I flew over SoFi. I didn't actually go to SoFi. I was in Newport Beach more. So SoFi I didn't realize was right next to the airport. So it's just like, it feels like you're landing on it when you come in at LA. Oh, wow. By the way, that would be number one because you're in Southern California in September, but it's also a Monday night game, so you have to give yourself more wiggle room to go. Beyond that, the road games, Justin. This is not a pretty slate. No, I was just going to say. And if I'm being fair, the number two spot still remains. It will always be there going to Jerry World in Dallas. Yep. Because if you've been Arlington is awesome. Fort Worth's awesome. The city of Dallas itself has nothing going on, but you could have a great weekend never seeing the city of Dallas. That's number two for me. I'm probably number three. I'm going back to Texas as well. I think late October versus the Houston Texans. I think you're going to eat some good barbecue. You're going to kind of enjoy that kind of stuff. I think that's fine. After that, man, like I haven't been to Indy. I'm actually contemplating going. I have an outstanding offer there to go to Indy for that one o'clock game Thanksgiving weekend. I hear great things. I don't know if you've been, Justin, and then you're just talking about Washington, which I did last year. Complete dump of a stadium. Philly, where Justin is now. Do you really want to deal with those people? And then we're talking about Detroit on Christmas week. It's going to be freezing there. No. And also, that's not a we went for training camp a couple years ago. It was not a lot going on. It's LA. The two Texas spots and Seattle's fine. Tennessee. We're home. New Orleans. We're home. Right. The good places were here. It's not a great road trip. Jacksonville. If you want to get away in November, you can't. It's almost here to not. San Fran is home is home as well. Yeah. San Fran is a dump of a city. But yes. But even you could talk yourself into, like, okay, well, Jacksonville is a nice. Okay. But you can get out of the cold for a little bit. But no, I'll come in here. Right. Think about it. Getting out of the cold to go to Detroit in December. You don't want to do that. No, you're not doing that. So Houston is a sneaky good one. I think you'll get a lot of giant fans at it. All right, Sean. Well, we have a Fanatics 502 to end off this show. Welcome back to the Fanatics 502. It's presented by the Fanatics Sportsbook. This week, we're ranking the top five giants that are most likely to make the Pro Bowl this year. Correct. Yes. So Justin is there with John Boy Media in Philadelphia for All-Star Week in Major League Baseball. So it had me thinking about All-Stars. And while we don't really give a crap about the Pro Bowl when the Pro Bowl happens, it is fun to speculate how good your players could be to make the Pro Bowl. So I'm going to give you the five most likely giants to be Pro Bowlers this year. And we're bringing you something new this week. Drop your own top five in the comments of our Twitter post for a chance to win $50 in fan cash courtesy of Fanatics Sportsbook. Sean Marash wants to take it away. All right. Number five for me and the Giants most likely to be Pro Bowlers. How about this? Jackson Dart. Is it fair to set expectations that he could be a Pro Bowler? Shador Sanders did make the Pro Bowl last year, Justin. I want everybody to be reminded of that. Now, that involves a lot of people backing out. I think it's kind of a low bar. But yeah, why shouldn't we think that there's a chance Jackson Dart in this NFC can take the next step? We should be setting that kind of standard. Still, it's hard. It's quarterback. So I'm going to put him at number five. Number four. It's Arvell Reese. He's going to qualify on the linebacker position as opposed to the edge position. You think about all the linebackers in the NFC, and I've gone through the list. If Arvell Reese gets the seven sacks out of that position, and it's all over the place, and we're talking about him when we're voting for him to be the Defensive Rookie of the Year, Defensive Rookie of the Years do make Pro Bowls. Do they not, Justin? They do. Okay. Even Levante David, he retired. So that helps. Yeah. Yes. Number three. How about a guy who's never made a Pro Bowl? Andrew Thomas. That's nuts, man. For something that's so fake and has lost legitimacy over the years, it's so nuts that he's a second-team All-Pro in 2022 yet doesn't have a single Pro Bowl. Yeah. You need Trent Williams to retire, but Trent Williams on his way out. Maybe you do get an Andrew Thomas. You know how Blue Jays fans took over the All-Star? Hey, I'm a baseball creator now. Yeah. You know how Blue Jays fans took over the All-Star voting? We have to take over the Pro Bowl voting for Andrew Thomas, which when I say it out loud and one of my bosses, Jake, is in the room, he's shaking his head being like, yeah, that's going to happen. Yes. Very, very corny. We'll try our best either way. Number two. Brian Burns. I mean, look, he was the Pro Bowler last year. Insane sack total. We just talked about this with the high sacks, which gets me to number one. Number one. The number one likely Pro Bowler is Abdul Carter. Doesn't it feel like something has failed this year if Abdul Carter is not a Pro Bowl pass rusher in year number two after drafting him third overall and the expectations we have. So he's got to be number one for me. I agree. Honorable mention. Maybe Isaiah Likely. Yeah, but again, a lot of those guys might make Pro Bowls. I'm just going with who the five most likely ones are. Yeah. Isaiah Likely. God, we always do that. How about Francis Moenoa? No. Too many good linemen. Let's go. Set expectations higher. Chris Lindstrom. How about Dominic Zavada? Tyler Smith. Dominic Zavada. That's all right. That's Fanatics 5. All brought to you by Fanatics Sportsbook. Thank you to Fanatics. Sean, thank you for joining me. I'm saying this now, and then the next week it could be wrong. But Sean, I mean, buckle up, because after this week and after we have our John Boy Media Talking Giants kind of like crossover up, where Jolly's going to be back on Talking Giants for the first time in a couple of years, Swilly Sports, and then my guy Shelfy, who's an Eagles fan. We're just going to kind of go back and forth between some Giants and Eagles stuff, because I want to get his perspective as an Eagles fan just about what in the world's going on in Philadelphia this offseason. So that's going to be this Thursday. But then after that, I think it's you and me, man, you and me against the world, some would say, for twice a week, and then even going three times a week in season. I think we're going to get ready to kind of rock and roll here. The B.S. episodes are done after Thursday. We're going to get back to talking ball, analyzing, and even doing this mailbag. It was good to get back at it. You know how I can tell, Justin? This will be my last point. When I was at LAX and I went to the stand by the water and whatever, sitting there behind the counter, you know what was there? What was that? The football preview magazines. We've hit that point in July where people are reading those on the beach and by the pool. We're starting to get our jolly olives twisted here. All right. I got to send you the Warren Short Preview because I have that. I got to send you that. Let's do it. All right. Let's go, Giants. We will see you on Thursday. Thanks for listening. See ya. It starts today! Let's go, Giants! We beat Wu!