Ep. 358 — Thoughts on Abortion, Sin, and God's Will | Fireside Chat

Hey everybody. Dennis Prager here with fireside chat. Number three 58. I didn't even move my lips and you heard the number. By the way, do you know who said three 58 folks? That is Jeff, the new Megan. It's not so new now. Yeah. Megan Megan's building a family. God bless her. She's in Georgia. I believe Georgia. Yeah. And we think of her often. If you're watching, we miss you and we sent you a big hug. Anyway, uh, Mr. Tubbs is here. Just wanted you to know, I'm sure you didn't miss that, but I want you to know that I'm aware. And if you were right here, I'd be rubbing him, but he's not right here. Okay. So on, I don't know, very few occasions out of the 358, maybe five times, you think I I've just taken questions. Yeah. 10 times, maybe, maybe one out of, so that would be one out of 35. Like that math. So that's what I'm going to do today because there are too many good questions and I'll never get to them if I don't bunch them up. So we'll start with the, uh, the video question. Okie dokie. Take it away. Hi, my name is Katie and I live in Wisconsin. My question for the founder is in an episode, you had stated that in the 10 commandments, it says that thou shalt not murder, not thou shalt not kill. And so I've been wondering is abortion killing or murder. Thank you for everything you guys do. I've been listening for a long time and you've changed my life for the better. You've changed my mind for the better, and I am so appreciative. Thank you so much. So that was really sweet. Thank you. Uh, that is, that is such an important question and almost nobody asks it. So I'm going to say things, which some of you may find a bit troubling, but I have to say it because I have no credibility with you. If I think before I give any idea or any answer, gee, how will it be received? I can't think that way. I don't, I don't want to build this up. Like I'm going to say something beyond the pale, but the language with regard to abortion is a very, very morally complex issue. So let me just say that the outset, uh, I believe we're dealing with the human life. Okay. Forget believe. I think the word believe is a little silly. It's either true or not true. Belief is a theological question. Whether or not the, the, the creature, the being that a woman who is pregnant is carrying is, is a human life is, is not a, it may well be a reflection of one's theology, but it's, it's either accurate or not accurate. It's so, uh, I'm totally okay with saying on occasion, you know what? Uh, it is clear that this, that this position comes from a religious view. Uh, I mean, to give an example, opposition to same sex marriage is overwhelmingly, uh, based on the religious belief that the divine order is a man marrying a woman. Okay. That's religious. You, you, you can't argue it. There's an objective reality to it. It's a, it's a construct, but there is an objective reality to what it is that a woman who is pregnant is carrying. It's either human or not human. If it's not human, what is it? Is it a peanut? Is it an animal, but not human? Is it, is it nothing? And it becomes a human. I mean, that, that question, it would seem to me would have a scientific answer. Just as are you a man or a woman has a science answer. It's not, if we dismiss the idea that you are the sex you think you are, or the new terminology, the gender you think you are, that's, that's the post modern idea that we make up reality. If I say to you, I'm a woman, I may think I am a woman, but I'm not a woman. I'm not objectively a woman. That doesn't mean you should maltreat me or anything like that. But I, I, there, there has to be some objective answer. The notion that sex slash gender is entirely subjective is, is unscientific and is, is truly absurd what it is that a pregnant woman. Or for that matter, a pregnant hippopotamus is carrying has an objective. We are, what would we say? Oh, let's take my hippopotamus example. What is a hippopotamus, a pregnant hippopotamus carrying? One assumes the answer is a, a hippopotamus fetus. If fetus means the, the unborn being that is being carried by the pregnant mother. Nobody would argue that it's, it's not a hippopotamus. What, what is, what is she carrying? If, if not a baby hippopotamus. So I just want to make it clear where I stand on what it is that a pregnant woman is carrying. Now we ask, now you ask the correct, a correct question. Is it killing or is it murder? Well, the definition of murder that we normally use is premeditated taking of an innocent human life. Now by that definition, if it's an innocent human life, then we would use the term murder. But people very rarely use the term murder. And why don't they? Well, I think one reason is that if we say that every woman who has an abortion has murdered a human being, it does strike, it strikes me. I will admit it. It does. And I already made the case that this is a human that she's carrying, but it does strike me as not quite filling what I normally associate with the term murder. And by the way, there were, there were ramifications. If every doctor who performs an abortion is a murderer in, then many of them are mass murderers. And the, the, you, you can't have it both ways. You can't really say, yes, doctors who perform abortions are mass murderers, but we should not prosecute them. Is there any other example of a mass murderer or even the murderer of a single human being that we don't prosecute? My point there is, is that in some ways abortion is sui generis, which is the Latin term for its own unique thing. It is nothing, nothing quite like it. I don't know anybody who's pro-life who, who I'm not saying this person doesn't exist, I just don't know one who believes that all doctors who perform abortions should be put away in prison for life and presumably all hospitals that allow that they're facilitating mass murders. And what about the mother? She's an accessory to, to not mass murder, but to murder. So we don't use that language because even we in the pro-life community do recognize it as somewhat different than regular murder and, you know, technically it isn't, but somehow we, we recognize that it is and that's the reason we don't say murder and we, even people don't usually say kill that they, it's more often said, but sort of we take the baby's life is the more the, the language that people are, are more, I think, morally comfortable with. I'll give you an example that I, I, I, of language I never used that the, the tens of millions of abortions in America, since the decision allowing abortion called for those of you outside of America, it's called Roe v. Wade, Roe versus Wade. That was the, that was the Supreme court case. So when I, I, I read periodically, even somewhat frequently, the term Holocaust is used, you know, Hitler killed 6 million Jews, the Nazis killed 6 million Jews. And Americans have killed, I don't know, 30, 40, whatever million. Our, you know, our Holocaust is beyond, beyond belief. That's what, what people will often say. I've never used the term Holocaust, but I'd like to tell you why, because though I am pro-life and see no argument against the pro-life position, there is, I do believe there is ultimately a moral difference and I wouldn't use, I therefore wouldn't use the term Holocaust. And this is where I said it might be a jolting, but I'm not, but I don't mean to jolt you and I may well be wrong, but I'd like to offer my thought on it. Cause like language is all we have. I've, I've often thought, let us say that instead of 6 million Jews murdered, cause that's the most famous Holocaust. Instead of 6 million Jews murdered, we, uh, what, what the Nazis would have done is they would have aborted, they would have performed an abortion on every pregnant Jewish woman between 1941 and 1945, the years of the Holocaust. I think Jews would have regarded that as an obscenity and as evil, but it, it doesn't, it wouldn't have come close to the Holocaust, it would have been evil and wrong, but it would not have anywhere near the, the, the resonance of the Holocaust, and I'll tell you why, because it's, there are gradations of evil. I think this is my key point. Or one of my key points, there are gradations of evil. If, if, if, if I murder somebody's child, their five-year-old child, their, their 40-year-old child, but their child versus that I have aborted, even forcibly aborted their child. There is, there is a difference. People know that there is a difference for one thing, because we have an emotional bond with, with a born human being and you can say, well, women bond with their unborn. Yes. To a certain extent, that is true, but it's not the same extent. And, and, and ask a woman, ask any parent who might've had the tragedy of both a miscarriage and the death of a child. If she would be honest, which caused you the greater pain? I don't think it would be measurable. The greater pain of the, of the child versus the, the, the unborn. So there, there is gradation of pain. There is gradation of evil. So the language that we use, I don't, I don't know what language we can use. Murder doesn't quite work because if you really believe it's murder, why would you not prosecute these people, the, the, both the mother and the doctor? So what is correct technically or legally may not be correct morally and certainly not emotionally. So I don't, I, I, you're, you've asked a very powerful question and obviously I've thought about this a lot because this is not a spontaneous answer. I have thought about this a lot and that's why I, I am pro-life, but do not use the term murder and do not use the term Holocaust, so it's, it's one of these. Abortion is a, is a unique arena. I'll give one more example of, of again, gradations of evil. I am, I am not for having euthanasia as legal. I am opposed to it. But do I believe that taking the life of, of a person who has no, no longer can think, there's no self-awareness and is in horrible pain is taking that person's life, the same as taking another person's life? Is it the, is it the moral? Is it morally identical? Of course not. Even though technically it's deliberately taking the life of an innocent person, but there were circumstances under which I wouldn't want my life continued. That's why people have living wills. So it, it does come down to, in part, the question that I have had a fascinating decades long debate with many of my listeners on the question of, are there gradations of evil, which is its own subject, I'm ending up giving a whole opening talk just on this question. Many listeners to my show over the years have said to me, I don't agree with you, Dennis, and normally there'd be a person who does agree with me. There were no gradations of evil in God's eyes. All sin is the same. It's rebellion against God. I know their words. That's why I'm repeating their words because I've heard it so often. And, and, and I, I have my usual question. So you think, I would say to the person calling me, you really believe that God doesn't see a moral difference between, uh, raping and strangling a five-year-old. Uh, versus taking a stapler from the office. Does everybody know what a stapler is? I don't know. You know, it's not, not used that often. You know, taking, taking, I don't know what, you know, a mouse, a mouse, keyboard's really expensive, but I'm not, I'm taking this very seriously. The God I believe in does not view the rape and murder of a child or an adult for that matter, but I'm giving her a really brazen example of evil. Uh, as, uh, as morally equivalent to taking a mouse from the office, stealing a mouse. Stealing is wrong. I believe it's wrong. You believe it's wrong. God believes it's wrong. But there, there's a logical reason that we don't have the same penalty for stealing something, uh, uh, of, of minimal cost, uh, and, and, or of any cost for that matter, and, and the raping and murdering a child, of course. Of course, I believe God has gradations of evil. If God doesn't have gradations of evil, why did he give the 10 commandments? He just should have said, don't do anything I don't approve of, but obviously isolated some really important ones. So, uh, there, there are gradations of evil and that's why the terminology that is often used with, uh, with abortion that equates it to the most monumental evils may not be the, may not be appropriate language. That, that was a toughie. Thank you, Katie. Uh, now, uh, we have Prager United. Thanks to you folks who are members of Prager United. First of all, you get a lot of your own wonderful perks by joining pragerunited.com, but the other is you keep our work free like the fireside chat. So please go to pragerunited.com and check it out. And if you can join, thank you. Uh, one of their perks is they get the first question after the video question. This is from Brazil, Julia, 32 years old in Curitiba, Brazil. Hello, Mr. Prager. Do you believe God has a specific plan for each one of us? Meaning he mapped out whoever we are going to marry our children, work, et cetera, and that it would be up to us to find that plan out and follow it in order to live our best life. Do we have a predefined purpose in life? So for some reason, I think I addressed this very recently, but it doesn't matter. I don't expect everybody to remember everything I say. I don't remember everything I say. Uh, this is not, that is not my belief. Uh, it's funny that you should mention whom we marry. So there is a, uh, there, there's an old Jewish, uh, I wouldn't say saying, but concept, what has God been doing since he created the world, since he stopped at the, you know, the sixth day of sixth day of creation. And there's a, there's a very interesting answer. He's been bringing couples together to get married to which I, I, I, I've always had the following thought. One, it shows you how hard it is to bring couples together that that's what God's been busy with, you know, creating the universe. That's easy. Getting a couple together, that's really rough. Uh, so that's, that's part of my enjoyment of that answer. Uh, the other is that he doesn't appear to always do a great job. A lot of people, it doesn't work out, but of course you will say, well, that's not the couple that God wanted to bring together, which is a very fair answer that may well be. But what, let me, let me ask you this, Julia, what is the difference between believing God has a partner for me and I am looking for the right partner for me, what is the real difference? Because clearly God does not supply vast numbers of people with the right partner. Vast, more and more people aren't marrying at all. And a lot of people marry and it's not the right partner. I mean, that's just a fact. Uh, if you find the right partner, I know my parents did. I feel I have the last 20 years, but can't say it was true before that. And this is no reflection either on whom I married then or, or on me. It's just, it wasn't, wasn't necessarily the right person. And I have a very, I have a very sympathetic view to people who, for whom I feel bad for them if it doesn't work out, but that, so if God does have this partner, we still have to find them. It's not like God delivers your partner on your doorstep. So you have to, so whether or not God has a partner for you, you have to find the person and vast numbers of people don't find that person. So I'm not sure what that gives you that a, a non-God based view of whom you'll marry gives you. But even putting aside the area, the issue of whom you'll find the notion that God has a, uh, a plan for my life. It may, I don't, I don't have pro or con view. It's not how I lead my life. I believe that, and I know I said this on a, on a, on a recent fireside chat, but be that as it may, most of what we have to do, God has already told us to do. In the famous statement of Micah, the prophet in the old Testament, Oh man, has God not told you all he demands from you to pursue justice, love righteousness, and walk humbly with your God? Why is that not sort of sufficient? That tells me what a good part of my life should be. Here's another one. So again, my religion is Judaism. So I'll use this, uh, a Jewish example. When a Jewish boy or girl doesn't matter is born the traditional, I mean, this is thousands of years old. Wish is made the child grow up for Torah, marriage and good deeds. So if you want to translate Torah as Bible or biblical values, biblical teachings, so essentially to anglicize it, the Bible marriage and good deeds. That's, that's what God wants of all of us. Otherwise, what, what, what do people have in mind when they say that God has a plan for my life? That I be a doctor, that I be a carpenter, that I, that I be, I'm not being at all cute, that I'd be an Uber driver. Does, does God have my vocation planned out to those who feel that they are responding to a divine calling? I know, I know Catholics who feel that God has called them Catholic men to, to be a priest. I don't negate that for a moment that they have, they have that calling and they believe it is from God. And who am I to say it isn't, but it's not so that that's a very subjective thing, whether, but whether you have that, but I don't think you should feel lost if you don't have a specific calling from God beyond living the type of life that I just described in those two statements, one from Mike and one from the traditional Jewish one. I wish everybody grew up and thought, oh yes, I should have a Bible-based life. I should get married and I should do good deeds. I happen to think that that's the greatest three suggestions for every human being in the world. But, uh, I never negate anyone who feels that God has called them. I knew what I wanted to do with my life. I could prove it because I actually kept a diary in high school and I have the physical diary somewhere in my house. I have to find it again, but I know I have it. I wrote down in my junior year in high school, I know, I know what I want to do with my life. I want to influence people to the good. Those are, those were the words I use, the good. Now, did I believe it was from God? I didn't write that. And I, and I, I don't, I didn't think that way. I just thought that I thought God would be pleased with me if I did that. But I didn't know that God pick me to do that. I, it was not the way I thought, but if I thought it'd be fine. All right. We still have time, right? One more. Here I, I make an opening announcement. Oh good. I'll take so many. It's really sad. Okay. Adam, 22 years old, Los Angeles, California. Hi, Dennis. Why did you start doing the fireside chat and what drives you to continue to do the show? Actually, ironically, I just gave the answer. What drives me to continue? Because I want to influence people to be good. It's so powerful, a force in me that I never get tired. It's the energy level that you perceive in me. And I think would for all 358 thus far is genuine. It's not like as soon as I finished this, you know, I'm just going to go into, you know, some sedate mood. I have a lot of energy. I it's a, it's a blessing. I am profoundly grateful for it, but it, it's, it emanates from my belief that I do have an important task to try to fulfill. Why did, I don't know why the fireside chat started. I guess they just thought of PragerU that it would be a good idea to have me do something every week. Right. Does it make sense that it is called PragerU for a reason related to me. But it, it, like everything else at PragerU, it is blossomed beyond anything one could imagine. Half the questions here are from different places around the world. Literally half. I just got an invitation to speak in Albania and, and that, that does bring me great, great comfort. I will say even joy because I, I will, I will end with this. If this sounds arrogant, I'll live with it. It's not, it doesn't come from anything arrogant whatsoever. I do believe that I have a lot of answers. I don't have all the answers by any means. I don't know why God made the mosquito among many things I don't know, but I do believe that I have really helpful things. And in fact, ironically, I'm much more frustrated by how many people I haven't touched than I am exhilarated by the number of people I have touched. I'm much more think of how much I didn't do than how much I did do. And it doesn't depress me, but I'm, I just want you to know that I'm well aware. I'm well aware. And this does, this does is the word trouble, right? I don't know, but it, it, it does bother me. So it's like trouble. Yeah. It does somewhat. I feel, and this is Marissa cites this all the time about me. Marissa Stride, our terrific CEO. I, I have often felt that I was like someone who had a cure for cancer, but the biggest problem was he or she couldn't get it out. How do you publicize it? That's how I feel. I feel I have an, I have a solution to moral cancer. And my, the great dilemma of my life was how do I get it out to more people? PragerU has been a great blessing in that regard. Okay. Maybe I'll do more questions next week. Thanks for being with me and I'll see you next week.