The Sacred Power of Friendships – Talk with Daniel Ellenberg, PhD

couple weeks ago I saw a an interview kind a conversation between Trevor Noah who I imagine that all of you know and if you don't you should and Simon senic who I imagine many of you know and not all of you know Simon syic uh is like a leadership coach and he works in organizations he's considered a thought leader uh in organizations and his his uh Ted Talk on um the power of why why are we doing what we're doing uh has had over 60 million viewings I imagine that some people have seen it more than once but that's a lot of viewings and so they're sitting there on the stage and Trevor Noah who apparently is known Simon senic for some time says to him says you know Simon I'm always curious about what you're thinking about what's what's on your Leading Edge you know I've been following you I'm interested in your your thought processes what are you thinking about these days to which he responded I've been thinking a lot about friendship okay cool interesting I I was surprised you know hearing that and then he said something I found quite useful in terms of even a way of uh using language he said people don't realize often the power of their friendship net worth they don't realize the power and the importance really of their friendship net worth and I thought yeah that's cool and people think about their selfworth and think about their money you know worth and all kinds of things but what about friendships and I thought this it makes sense to me because frankly right now in this country and probably in the rest of the world we are in crisis I'm telling I'm not telling you anything you don't know but there is massive crisis happening and I I do like to look at crisis as the meaning of meaning both danger in the Chinese language danger Plus opper opportunity and I do think that the big opportunity is coming through our ability to connect meaningfully with each other I mean for me that's really at the core of my own life connection and so I was thinking about really in the last year the Surgeon General of the US has come out and said we're we're in a crisis of connection we are we are absolutely Ely in crisis and what are we doing with that what are we going to do what are each of us doing to connect all right and so i' I've looked at how what do we what do we pay attention to you know as people you know what is valued in the culture and as somebody who is a licensed therapist and have been for many years and and also a leadership coach and I work in organizations I I'm kind of fascinated by looking at what we do in terms of addressing issues Dynamics difficulties on a on a larger level and so when you look at therapy therapy is individual therapy coup's therapy family group in organizations leadership coaching team development where's the Friendship where is friendship in that now you may form some friendships from groups but even some therapeutic groups don't allow people to even connect with each other outside of the group that's a whole another matter but I just think it's amazing when you think about how many people have challenges in friendships I would venture to say that there's not one person sitting here tonight that hasn't had some difficulties often profound difficulties in friendships you have friendships that you really close with at some point and something happened and there's a disconnection and you didn't know how to reconnect you may have tried or the other person tried with you but very few of us very few of us have grown up really learning about how to be in relationship I mean to me it's completely nuts like when we look at our education we're we're focused on so many skills you know Reading Writing arithmetic you know language all kinds of things which I'm not doubting the importance but so little about actually how to be in relationship and how to even know ourselves and that's what I want to talk with you about tonight because I really I really really believe that we need we need to invest in our friendships now I I have invested a lot in friendships and I I'm guessing all of you know Rick and some Rick has been one of my very very very closest friends for over 35 years at this point and so we know each other quite well and I would venture to say I'm a pretty good confident for him and he's been an amazing Ally for me you know and I there's part of me that's actually really feels a sweetness and thinking about him right now because I know that all of you are here to some degree because of him you know of him you know of his work and I um I can say that as a very close personal friend Rick walk's talk you know I actually feel even a little teary you know here and thinking about CU I I he lives in here in me I know I'm not the only one but he's he's worked hard on himself and he shows up and and so I I I sometimes think that people who don't know somebody who's considered kind of a teacher out there a luminary think well person what's the person really like well he's a real deal I'll say that that's not primarily what this talk is about tonight but I just it just emerged from me so I'm going to say it um but so in I I've invested in that friendship quite a lot and he's invested and you need to invest I think a lot of times people think that kind of friendship is just something that happens you know it should just happen and you shouldn't give it much thought or much energy it should just be so natural that you don't actually have to do anything with it and that is complete and utter nonsense you must work at it you must practice you know I I'm a strong believer in the power of practice and really any skill mind body skill that any of us ever want to develop we have to practice you know I i' I've joked with a couple guys at my local gym I said what you're back again it didn't work the last time you know and and to kind of like laugh and go because of course you have to keep doing it even if it doesn't feel good and I can say certainly in friendships it doesn't always feel good I I can say like said so many times with I felt out of sorts with friends and the difficulties emerge I haven't felt seen or loved or respected or something has come up and I can say that the willingness to invest and to talk about what might be getting in the way is really the pathway into deeper connection and you know the the reality is it doesn't always work you know I've had friends who are friends for in the past are not friends anymore new people come into to my life it can be fairly fluid but you definitely want your people and that's part of what I want to do is really encourage you tonight to go for it and not let fear and anxiety and doubt get in the way of connecting now friendship you know it's basically like how do we form a loving affectionate companionship or condition in which we're mutually supportive you know in a caring relationship ship deep friendship can provide encouragement inspiration connection and feedback feedback is really important because none of us can see ourselves completely as we are it's hard to you can say exactly how who are we you know in totality the totality of who we are it can be very confusing getting Reflections back from people you trust oh I didn't see that in myself oh that sarcastic comment didn't land too well did it oh that hurt okay sorry oh what was going on in me that I did that oh maybe I felt hurt by something so I kind of flung something out there all of these the relationship is a way of of constantly being attuned to oneself and other people and you know make mistakes I mean we're human it ain't this is not about perfection out here on this planet from what I've noticed Maybe by tomorrow but I'm a little dubious about that now friendship underlies all Community you know giving and sacrifice and you think about in Buddhism now I imagine most if not all of you know about the three jewels or the three refuges the Buddha the Dharma and the s the song There Is is essential you know for pursuing the Dharma that's what this community is about I recognize that it's online and so it's not quite like you're in each other's physical presence but there's still great opportunities to connect and I and with that I want to point to George's group that meets after this I know that George usually has a number of people who show up most people don't and there's no judgment about not showing up for that but at the same time or and at the same time there's an invitation because in that group when you get into smaller groups you actually have more of an opportunity to connect with other people so I want I want to encourage you to participate in that and and it's not this to let yourself participate and I know that sometimes it's very hard to do so but it's it's the only sometimes it's the only show in town at least in my mind now this is there's a pretty famous story which I imagine many of you know about Ananda who was a disciple of the Buddha who said to him that spiritual friendship is half of the Holy life and to this the Buddha is said to have responded do not say so Ananda having spiritual friendship is the whole of the Holy life as The Story Goes Buddha was approaching his as Buddha was approaching his death he told his disciples to fear not because there some of them were afraid that the teachings of Buddha would die when he died his physical body di fear not to focus on the importance of sa as the living embodiment of the Dharma you know and that's how we keep each other same because we're all little nuts let's face it I mean I know none of you like to think of yourself as nuts and I don't mean as a psychological condition nuts I mean as a human condition because it's it's so easy to go off and having friends to keep pulling you back come back come back and you see other people you know who are going off in some way and your encouragement your feedback your love your compassion can be the difference that for some people can literally spell the difference between life and death now most of us are not quite on that edge but many of us are and so being open to others being open in relationship and really allowing your heart to be open allowing your heart to break and I'm not saying go go you forth and like try to have your heartbroken but I can certainly say that if your heart's never broken you really have been playing it safe and I would venture to say too safe friendships help us you know weather the inevitable storms and life and enjoy the gifts that life has to offer and the reality is we are wired to connect I mean there's been research in brain science and imagining that Rick has spoken about this over time that we all have a social brain that's monitoring really where we are in relation with other people a lot of what are functions are about is to find our way to be valuable and to be seen as valuable and enjoy and enjoy and and love within our tribe right because we really need each other and in terms of this crisis of connection I was speaking about before well guess what you know there have to be some risks if you're going to have the rewards of of being in deep connections you have to take risks you know and and part of that is really valuing your relationships I mean so often I see people kind of walk away like I was hurt by that I didn't like that you know and and like and I said like well are you going to talk about it and I can tell you that having worked at this point with thousands of people over the years it's the jury's out you know in terms of people's General willingness to challenge the status quo and generally speaking I kind of like this way I don't know I don't know how to do it I feel awkward I'm not sure how the other person's going to respond have all kinds of doubts and all kinds of reasons to not show up and I can say as someone who has been on this path you know of friendship and relationship for a long time that I have blundered so many times it's not even funny but I have dusted myself off and gotten up and willing to have the difficult conversations you know and you need to be willing to do that and you know what the reality is it's not always the difficulties I think a lot of times people really withhold their love withhold their appreciation and withhold their caring they don't say it how much they love someone how much they care I think it's particularly true with guys you know but that's I'm not going to go into my gender WAP tonight which which I can do quite easily but there is a call for more openness now given the risks why would you do that right I mean I'm imagining you've all heard the term social anxiety and there are many of us in our ADV Ventures say most people at some time in your life have thought about going to a social occasion and felt really anxious about it and and then have judged yourself for feeling anxious what's wrong with me it's just a party or it's just a gathering it's just a this or it's just a that but the reality is that the same system that exists for physical danger in the brain is the same for social danger and so when we are feeling anxious socially is it really it triggers survival issues and you think of it and go why why would that be well we are tribal beings and if you screw up in the tribe what's the worst that can happen well you get tossed out of the tribe then what no one survives alone not not in the wilderness not in those times so we we're linked on some level to feel massive levels of anxiety when we feel threatened socially which is why in part it's important to practice practice your breathing practice your self-compassion I highly recommend mindful self-compassion for those of you who have not taken the course I think it's very important to continually be kind to yourself I am I am a recovering Relentless self-critic I'm not saying I don't go there anymore because I'm again not a believer in Perfection but the person who was somehow living in here and the person who is living in here is so different in part because I've taken a lot of risks and I've survived those risks and I there were times when I when I doubted that know and the reality is it's it's a one level easier to avoid interactions I mean it's difficult right it's like being around other people connecting with other people being more open it can you know trigger this anxiety and many of us we just want to avoid that and that's natural and it's perfectly fine to avoid a time so I'm not saying that you should always go after everything and every person every time and every I'm not saying that at all but I'm saying I am saying that if you always avoid you continually make your world smaller and smaller and smaller and I don't think any of us really want to live in such a small tight world now what exactly are we revealing right I think about the word intimacy and often times that word seems to be synonymous in many people's mind with sex and sexual I was intimate with that person I I don't see it that way at all I think that a person can be intimate without being sexual and they can be sexual without being intimate now obviously when it comes to to to the Land of Love Making it's better to be both right this isn't a talk about sex by the way but I think about the word intimacy as The Fanatic of in mey allowing other people to see into you now that can be pretty terrifying and I know that for for me when I was much younger I was on the version I would say that my first therapist would agree I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown I was 20 years old living in Boston I wanted to drop out of college I was convinced to go to therapy instead which I did and I remember sitting there with my therapist which is now over 50 years ago and telling him how anxious I was around being around people and that I really didn't know where I where I ended and other people began I'm slowly learning that you know so I I as I've mentioned I screwed up many times in relationship but I I've just had this intense drive to connect it's not always because I can be actually quite introvert and I don't want to be around people I think for kind of more natural reasons I like being alone you know at times and I'm sure that many of you like being alone and that's perfectly fine this isn't about always being with people always always doing that it's about challenging yourself at least just a little bit more you know and really think about how important is it for you to connect with other people you know so to really be on your own interpersonal journey I think is like a super important part of life it's part of what s is about it's part of what life is about and again all of us I would venture to say but I'll I'll be uh I'll take the more moderate path and I would say the vast majority of you have and including me have been seriously wounded in relationships wounded in our families of origin wounded in friendships wounded at work W wounded and then wind up licking our wounds but not talking about that or just kind of cloistering around and I don't think that's the the the the only place to heal now obviously is does help to practice to do your meditation to do to practice self-compassion it helps it absolutely helps and there's also the interpersonal practice of really about showing up in relationships by say saying that there's an ouch now I don't know about you I know but I know myself pretty well and I would say that if I'm hurt by something a friend has done done or not done I'm not really good at keeping my heart open unless I talk about it that's me now some people may well be better at that and some people are better at keeping their hearts open even when they have felt wounded in some way that's not me you know so it's I think it's important to know who you are you know what your what your personal wiring is about because that's going to help you make decisions about what you're willing to do you know in relationship with others now I'd like to to Really you know suggest that we all need to some degree more courage now uh I was asked some about the course that Rick and I created called the courage to connect and a lot of that really is about having courage and what is courage well I like to read a little passage from you about courage by the poet David White I'm sure many of you know of Courage is a word that tempts us to think outwardly to run bravely against opposing fire to do some something under besieging circumstance and perhaps above all to be seen to do it in public to show courage to be celebrated in story rewarded with Metals given the Accolade but a look at its linguistic Origins is to look in a more interior Direction and toward its original template the old Norman French courage is the measure of a heart which means heart courage is the measure of a heartfelt participation with life with another with a community a work a future to be courageous is not necessarily to go anywhere or do anything except to make conscious those things we already feel deeply and then to live through the unending vulnerabilities of those consequences and I want to pause here for a moment and say that vulnerability is a part of life vulnerability is on some level the meaning of it is openness to attack and you think to yourself why would I want to be vulnerable to somebody if it makes me open to attack right you know on some level it doesn't make intuitive sense but the B but the bottom line is if you're not showing certain vulnerabilities if you're not trusting another to see those it's hard to have intimacy of intimacy because you need to allow the other person to see into those which obviously involves risk he goes on to be courageous is to seat our feelings deeply in the body and in the world to live up to and into the necessities of relationships that often already exist with things we find we already care deeply about with a person a future a possib ability in society or with an unknown that begs us on always has begged us on to be courageous is to stay close to the way we are made developing friendships Having the courage to do so I'm sure that all of you have people in your life that may like to be closer with or maybe some people you want to be less more distant from sometimes it's time it's important to end relationships or to change relationships so it's not always moving in the direction of Greater connectedness it's really what feels right to you you know and I I find that uh friendships are things you can develop throughout life I know a lot of times people think well you're I'm I'm an adult I'm here I can't develop friendships not true right I was talking with a colleague of mine recently and he said something that I found kind of interesting and I and trly many ways but she said when you're four years old having a friend all means you meet crayon and coloring next to each other when you're adults and developing new friendships best to do a project together get involved with something and that's what I find you know just getting involved for me with the different projects I'm involved with it's like that's where connections can really happen you know so I think that it's a really important to think about not only your kind of individual you know meeting someone like maybe I'll meet someone in a coffee shop or something which can be a little more challenging certainly possible but also thinking about where are your interest where your values and to engage yourself with other people and groups that share certain values with you so I'm going to I'm going to pause uh for a moment here and I I think I've shared a bunch of different things about friendships I want to invite some of you to share anything yourself to ask any question I am going to ask that you don't go on and on don't no long stories right now we have about 15 plus minutes left so I want to keep it you know it's you know relatively short but I want to open it up now for anyone who has any questions or or is touched by something or wants to explore some something around friendship so if you will if you would like to uh speak please raise your virtual hand and George will you'll come to the front and we will call on you so the floor is open for you so we have Anna Anna you look like a bird I do don't I okay hang on I do exist in human form hang on I suspect it hi hi gosh I feel feel so seen now ah yes so um you I come from a lot of relational trauma I understand and I'm looking at interpersonal Effectiveness and my recovery process and I find that setting boundaries like I'm doing now and just figure out what's true for me like it's almost like negotiating boundaries in the beginning of a friendship it's like there's part of me that's interested and curious but another part that's afraid and especially you know from a what can I trust point of view so I'm taking things slowly but how to set you know just working on setting those bound boundaries and doing like the mindfulness is helping me um be aware like oh does my body not feel safe but it and it still feels awkward like oh I'm open but am I really like I'm not sure where my boundary is so I just wanted to share that so was there thank you for that was there was there any question in this or you just want to share was it perfectly fine just to share that um I'm sure like maybe if there's a question that can come out of that would be great but don't have it very well articulated but I do I do think what you raising is very important and I did not speak about boundaries uh this evening but boundaries are incredibly important like when I was sharing about my first but not my last my first therapeutic experience as a client you know what I talking about in terms of where do I am and other people begin there a boundary you know in between there right and and I I look at when self and relationship is kind of like a a what's a healthy cell like what's a healthy cell wall well it turns out that a healthy cell wall is permeable I.E nutrients can flow in and out but it's not too permeable because if if it's too permeable it doesn't have any boundary in and of itself and so when you think about relationships think about yourself is like how can I be permeable which is another way I'm really open but also not losing my balance not being pulled out of the fact that I still am in the midst of our deeper connectedness I still am an individual human being so thank you for that well thank you cool thank you is it am I pronouncing it correctly uh it's hun the K Silent not even close yeah that's okay yeah thank you um I guess I don't have a question but um I thought it was I just wanted to share something which is like a fact um I guess my experience um I'm a therapist and I uh had um two people reach out to me for friendship therapy and it was a very wonderful experience to help facilitate these two people and environment to kind of work on their relationship their friendship and that was such a new experience for me as a therapist and I just want to say you know it's it's it's coming up you know it's coming up and you know in our world and so people are reach uh searching for friendship therapies and so I I think it's kind of hopeful and important right like as you were sharing that's great yeah I love hearing stories like that okay that that was it thank you thank you I I appreciate hearing that and you know so some of you therapists I may think I'm going to I'm going to even Market myself as a friendship therapist thought about because people oh wow that's kind of a cool idea cuz most people just don't think about even that option yeah I think like you said they just tend to give up or you know or yeah yeah get it yeah cool great thank you very much all right so Thomas uh thank you can you hear me okay can you hear you can't see you yeah you can't see me my video my computer something's happening okay and I apologize he you most importantly so yeah I apologize for that I just want to say that uh first of all thank you for hitting on a topic um that is really for me uh life affirming you know how to create community and friendships and how to pay attention to it uh and how easy it is is to ignore it you know to not pay attention and so this talk tonight your talk tonight has um encouraged me excited me to think about specific ways that I can do that with friends or part friends that I have ignored that I have not put the energy into affirming you know their their interest in community their interest in Friendship so uh that's what tonight has done for me that's what you have done for me uh is [Music] to provoke provoke and energize my thinking on you know how I can do that and I thank you for that Daniel oh thank you Thomas I'm I'm I mean for me the greatest gift is when people actually connect and if I can be uh helpful in that I mean that's um it brings tears to my eyes so I'm I'm yeah glad I'm glad to hear that and I and I think that you can be a role model for others in that because I'm pretty confident that a lot of you folks out here that have people in your life you've thought about I reach out they're not reaching out to me so I'm not going to reach out to them because they're not reaching out to me you first you first that kind of you first mentality and the problem problem is that there are a lot of people and I venture to say well over half people who are you first people and then when they're in you first with relation with other you first people there's that's it the connection will Wither on the spine absolutely there needs to there needs to be some action and and it's it can be awkward there's no question about it and I can say that even as somebody who's pretty skilled you know in Rel relationship without being unduly humble you know or not humble or arrogant there like I still feel anxious in even close friendships at times you know I still feel vulnerable like what do I saying now or just like I have anxiety come up in my body despite 10 20 30 years of friendship that and I can't even explain why at times it just kind of comes up around the closeness you know there and so I think it's important to really normalize anxiety and not use anxiety as as a reason to stop or to disappear but that's part of the challenge is is giving us these physiological uh messages go away you know leave the scene but it turns out that leaving the scene will really deprive you of certain nutrients it's a it's a problem so you have to not always listen to that anxiety and push into it right thank you Thomas sure thank you Daniel you got it and Farah is that your name is that did I pronounce it correctly you're right to the spot hi all right for the talk it's really uh hit to the heart for me uh I'm also the therapist and uh I came along so well I believe that uh from become too shy now I'm very comfortable I easily make a friend but I'm not staying too long in that friendship and what I notice is uh most of my issue is about as you mentioned in a beautiful way the word of intimacy I'm great of listening to other people helping other people be there for other people but I have a hard time allowing other people see me truly so I'm not sharing much I'm more willing I'm just sharing and I'm smart enough to know how much I can share for them to open and I'm then I I will be fully there right but I think the uh the lack in me is just intimacy which means allowing other people to see me well I see that lacking me but at the same time it comes the mindfulness and loving kindness and accepting yourself just the way you are right so I don't know if I'm using that to cover that my anxiety to be seen or I am uh really accepting and that's okay too you know so want to hear your voice I think you're avoiding you asked you know because it's I mean to some degree it's it's a bit of a therapist syndrome you know there are there are a lot of therapists who frankly as good as they are can hide behind being a therapist you know because it it it's riskier and more vulnerable more vulnerable to reveal your own issues than it is necessary to hear other people's now that may not be true for everyone but for most people it's harder to reveal than it is to hear and you know if you want to really be a scientist about this practice you know do something different I I I Som keep the the words of Michelle Michelle Obama keep ringing in my ears for in variety do something if any of you heard heard her just do something you know and and so so I just I think about that in terms of what is the what's the undeveloped aspect of itself I'm not just talking I'm not talking about you in particular far I think about this in general what's undeveloped well I'm really good at here here here and here but here I don't do this and I just okay I'm just going to practice my mindfulness not that that isn't important I think that is important so I'm not I'm in no way dissuading from that but there's also you really come to know yourself better through self-disclosure not necessarily receiving the disclosures of other people some of the original research by Sydney Gerard and self-disclosure that said really that's how people come to know themselves and I can tell you that my own experience is in revealing myself and having the willingness to talk about my difficulties my doubts my insecurities my jealousies my you know the the stuff that most people don't want to talk about not that I wanted to talk about but I knew that I had to talk about it in order to get more connected and so my hope for you is that you'll take some risks and just see what happens inclusive of telling the whole story like hey I'm not used to doing this I'm used to receiving other people I'm really good at that I I believe you are you know and I'm going to I'm going to experiment and try and show more about myself and see what happens thank you thank you okay I think we have time for one more person who is Laura thank you I appreciate this you know friendship is the one thing that I Pine for as much as I have I love so many things in my life and I really have reinvented my life I left a 30-year marriage 3 years ago um I moved I left my home I left my community I started over in most ways except my work and my core group of friends but you know what I find and I'm involved in a lot of things but I find that I get a sense that PE a lot of people don't really want to make new friends they have their little groups they have their buddies that they do certain things with and very rarely it seems like people in my that where I live are very friendly and everything and I've had a tiny bit of that now where I've had people invite or include but but I you know so many times I get that I I get that feeling that it's really hard to break in as a new person you know an older person into people that have been established in their friendships and in their in their um systems so are you talking with people there about that you'd like to be included more I I mean I don't exactly know you know I I join you know I'm participate in a lot of things I'm always out there I've met a lot of people since I got myself a dog um and I you know I've joined a church I've joined a couple book clubs I a volunteer um you know I'm a teacher so I work at a college and so I'm pretty much you know on my own I have a couple of friends but I you know I mean it's sort of a sort of a isolated kind of job in many ways um I love my students um but you know I it's it's the one thing that I struggle with and I know that I do have a lot of wounds a lot of history of rejection and underlying it I think that sometimes I just don't think I'm good enough in a lot of ways and I do find myself you know backing off sometimes but I you know I I really desire but I don't you know I I really get that sense from a lot of people that you know they have their little groups and they do their things but most very often they're comfortable there well I'm an outlier and I I I know I am and I've been told that many times but I mean I would talk about it with if there people in in your community there that you find interesting and want to connect with more sometimes you just have to do something you know in a different kind of way and take more of a risk you know and I you know I appreciate your vulnerability and saying about your self-concept there that you know you're not uh always enamored with yourself shall we shall we say and you're not alone in that I mean everyone's got wounds to their self-concept but nonetheless sometimes it's the only show in town and if you want something you have to go for it you know and I I remember when my son was four which was a long time ago he had this song there's a line and it said if you want something you have to ask for it and I thought to myself and I thought about this many times since I thought how many people really ask you really ask in a sincere way I know yeah but I I don't know I just have made that observation you know um that there's a lot of people who have their established little groups and they too don't really want to you you've got a lot of assumptions about what they what they want and what they're willing to do you may be right I I don't know I'm not I'm not saying you're wrong at all but I like to move Beyond assumptions you know because we all go into our assumption Warehouse right I call it and we assume we understand and often don't and so sometimes it's just the willingness to take an interpersonal risk