What were the Putney Debates? | English Civil War

[Music] well that's an easy question to answer the Putney debates unlike the execution of Charles the first have actually received much more attention in the last two or three decades because in one sense for modern people the Putney debates look quite similar to what happens in the modern world groups of people discussing what is legitimate what's good practice in terms of representation what government is for the unique thing about Putney was these were ordinary men we always have to remember women didn't really participate these were the radical soldiers of the New Model Army who in the autumn of 1647 had gathered at Putney at the request both of the soldiers but also of the Grandy's the higher up soldiers to debate what are we going to do with the King so this is in the midst of civil wars and Parliament is trying to negotiate with the king a settlement that will pretty much keep things as they are but stop the fighting the radical soldiers the Levellers the agitators of the New Model Army have lost blood in the wars and it's their view that made in a settlement that attends to their needs some of that is just simple they want to be paid but others of it a really very modern-looking so Colonel rains breh says that government should be for everybody not just the wealthy not just the property and he has a famous statement that he's still up in the church at Putney that says hey the poorest here in England has as much right to be involved in politics as the richest in England now we're lucky because we have a transcript of the discussions that took place there and we can hear the different voices we can even you look at men who didn't contribute sitting on the edge wondering what was going on and we know that the Putney debates wasn't simply an expression of modern democratic theory they did talk about equal rights they talked about consent and popular sovereignty but they were a little bit obsessed with franchise because we need to remember that this period is one it's a very hierarchical world and you know we'd have real issues if today we decided that if you're on benefits you aren't going to get to vote or I mean we don't give prisoners the vote or as we're celebrating that this anniversary giving women the vote this didn't really occur to many people in the 17th century because of their understandings of the gendered hierarchy but the Levellers were the most radical group within Putney and they advanced something called the agreement of the people which was a sort of proto Constitution that wanted to open up empower more people independent people we're very worried about servants because the fear was if you are somebody servant you'd vote in the way your master told you and there's a lot of toing and froing we should also recognize that within that group the so-called Grandy's the generals of the New Model Army are absolutely panicked about there being too much as they call it popularity and they don't mean you know going on a game show they mean too many people armed groups of people are known as mobs they're not communities so there's a real tension between those two positions but out of Putney comes an entire range of printed literature and that those agreements of the people are revised published distributed there are the heads of proposals from the the more elite generals they are circulated and we can see that event feeding into a sort of discursive tradition and certainly Cromwell and some of the generals were very very anxious because at the same time as they're dealing this they're trying to negotiate with the king and it's the easiest thing for the Royalists to say look the new model army it's full of lunatics they all want to give servants the vote and all sorts of stuff so Cromwell in essence and the army Grandy's has the radical elements of Putney put down subsequently in the summer they call for you know let's disperse all these soldiers gathering Putney talking politics let's call them back to be you gathered in their troops and if the radical ones turn up with pamphlets we'll shoot them and that's pretty much it was Burford was the famous sort of event where Levellers were killed so Putney is a key part of our democratic tradition but we've got to be really cautious when we go back and look at their languages remember overwhelmingly they were religious figures and they believed in equity that comes from God everybody is equal because we all have reason and it's a facility given to us by God this is sounds perfectly normal to us today but it's an absolutely horrific thought to a world where there is ordered hierarchy and where people in the famous words that we still hear you know your place you're a servant you're a woman you're a daughter and what Putney symbolized was people the people taking control of politics for themselves and when we hear a lot today about the people have spoken the worst thing you could probably say in the 17th century was invoke the people because for elite groups the people were a mob so the language they used quite a lot and they're unruly they're ungodly they're violent so the idea that popular consent could be legitimate and authoritative was a real problem and partly Putney embodied that for them [Music] you [Music]