What if Rome Conquered Germany? | Alternate History Hub | History Teacher Reacts

hey there I'm Mr Terry High School history teacher welcome back to another history teacher x video all right we're back with some more alternate history Hub and this is a doozy it's called what if Rome conquered Germany now famously Germanic peoples conquered Rome so what if the opposite had happened let's see what they have to say and I'll let you know what I think all right this original video is linked down below please support that and like this video and come back for more all right let's get started I never stop thinking about Rome please help me are you one of those guys Germany at one point they would become one in the same you know in a way not during the times of Ancient Rome or at least Rome at its height there were a lot of Germans in Rome near the end there so here's an idea what if somehow hadn't just stopped at the r what if they went further what if they say conquered Germany or Germania the part of this that the Romans call Germania yeah it does sound pretty insane just like Germany winning World War I or 2 the conquest of Germania and the preservation of Rome are pretty high on the probable alt scenarios tier list I've sacrificed a good amount of my sanity to Jupiter to justify this video which will hopefully give a realistic and original take on yet another unsolvable alternate problem so let's lay down the groundworks for one of my uh more ambitious takes all right so let me give you my pre-t takes before I hear any evidence so the Roman Empire one of their massive problems was the bigger that they got the harder it was to protect the insane amount of border that they controlled they had to spend such a huge part of the entire income of the Roman military probably around half to be able to defend this and what they had and if they conquer Germany that's going to be even bigger now the domino effect that led to a lot of the Germanic invasions and migrations into Rome goes back into Asia with say the Huns and maybe the Romans would have dealt more directly with those Huns rather than more indirectly and then I still feel like it would have been a similar outcome I don't think like this would have kept Western Rome together or kept even Rome together as a whole and prevented their collapse I don't think that I think I still think it'd be a similar outcome in a similar time period but I want to hear the evidence and the argum taking Germania is difficult but you know what's even more of a hassle talking about history on YouTube try to do that typ beus sometimes even mentioning another topic might demonetize your video that's not really helpful when you topics to talk about anything might be a land mine if history creators can't talk about what they want how can history enthusiasts get what they want well there's at least one solution entirely independent of YouTube armchair history TV the sponsor of today's video a streaming site built by history content creators for history content videos that talk about conflict or topics too sensitive to YouTube don't need to worry about all that hard work going to waste the site has over 250 videos in their Library even a familiar one of mine not to mention exclusive new content every week like the 45-minute cinematic documentary about the rise and fall of Isis so what are you waiting for help support creators and by signing up for armchair history TV using the code free history for 100% off your first month all right back to Rome all right first invasion of year Augustus just set a new president for a ruler by building the foundations of the Empire Pax Romana had risen From the Ashes of the Old Republic he was feeling pretty confident the principat were focused on consolidation and reform but several regions were uh Crossing his mind at the periphery of the Empire among them was the sparsely populated forested region east of the Rin River exactly 50 years after Caesar and ran off the governor of was assaulted by the Germanic tribes who crossed the river and vanquished a legion capturing the dolls were no joke man I mean they get so brutally conquered by Julius Caesar he killed Millions essentially but man they were they were uh quite the enemy but Julius Caesar I mean it's where he got his Fame though standard in response Augustus sent in his stepson drusus on a quest to recover the eagle jusus got lost in the side quest part of the Germania expansion pack and ended up focusing his attention on slaughtering and subjugating as many tribes as possible for backto back Camp 12 and 9 BC after doing all of that he fell off his horse on his way back home he succumbed to gang green and died what a way to go the Roman general and his seven Legions built 50 bases along the Ry River they dug canals which allowed the fleet to sail along the North Sea and surprise his enemies you know the one of the things that was amazing about fighting in that area was how good the Romans were obviously at like Siege engineering things like building uh like Bridges and it's like we I think we totally underestimate how important something like a bridge is and how divisive a river can be can literally be a impenetrable thing unless you can you know concoct uh some kind of transportation and that's like so much easier s the done and and with how fast the Romans used to do that they could you know cross the Rind or get get like a a bridge you know built over a mighty River like that in like you know just a few days which was so incredible to do the Germanic tribes were just outgun fely and outmatched by the most sophisticated well supplied well-armed and well-trained army up to that point several Chieftain just bent the knee supplied the Romans with tribute and their youngest sons who were now to be raised in Rome this this was General Roman policy they routinely recruited from the areas that they conquered they had to I mean the bigger the Empire is the bigger the Army you need this was also a downfall for Rome too in that you know they these are going to be great soldiers and things that that um are going to fight they're not going to have loyalty to Rome it's at least not the abstract idea of the Roman Republic or the Roman Emperor you know this entity that is you know thousands of miles away that they have no like personal connection to and that's going to be a big reason why you know much of the Roman history was driven by these generals and and and uh Caesar is one of just many but that had the Loyalty of their soldiers that were more loyal to them than they were of this like idea of Rome and how you could do a coup or uh almost like create your own state if you wanted to one of those boys was the 10-year-old armus who alongside his brother adopted the Latin language and its Customs nobody knew it at the time this young boy was about to be a major headache for the Romans and when I mean a headache I mean he wiped out three Legions disaster alternate world where conquered Germania there's two questions that might come to everyone's mind one could Rome ever conquer Germania well let's just answer that question now yeah because in our timeline they kind of did or they occupied it like half of it depends on your definition of Germania 2 I I guess but my point is for a Time Rome actually went beyond the Rin River and held territory within Germania I'm not kidding the borders of the empire in 6 BC looked like this sure they didn't have complex cities like that in Gul the local tribes still paid tribute they still bent the knee Roman soldiers walked and patrolled this land so second question why would Rome want to conquer Germania for all they saw it was just endless Dark Forest what incentive everywhere though that they conquer could say that about Gaul too they're an empire was there to conquer it trust me we'll get to that question later as for now all you need to know is that this border on the rine was not always destined to be it was from the of few and of many that led this to be set in stone not to be outdone by his brother Emperor tiberias showed that he was a worthy successor to Augustus by coordinating a massive invasion of the Marco Manny tribe the war machine was Unstoppable and under the heir's leadership it took 6 years for the Germanic Kelts in the west to be completely obliterated things for Rome were looking up but like any conflict involving Germany our story here has to take a detour because of the Balkans Roman focused a lot on their ger it was B bismar himself on his deathbed telling Wilhelm don't mess with the Balkans Central and Western Europe like never took that seriously and always learned really hard lessons about that and now we're going back to ancient times manic Frontier so much so that a bunch of yyan Chieftains in what was then called panonia had the bright idea to Rebel this was a fullscale Revolt I say Revolt but don't underestimate it this was an army of 200,000 infantry 9,000 calry tiberious was forced to postpone his campaign in order to deal with that curiously his army of over a dozen Legions featur none other than armenius himself now a well-trained young man there in the forested hills of the Balkans armenius would gain experience in the trust of his Roman superiors learning the Roman tactics from within well thing is there was there was plenty of Balan territory that they did take um as part of that so if they're talking Germany you know why are they bringing up um the Baltic I guess here but I guess we'll see the connection his absence puus Varys was made the first official governor of the Germania Province Taxation and even harer punishments after he crucified 2,000 Jews in Jerusalem Rome wasn't built in a day it took the efforts of millions led by dozens of incredible leaders and in that long line of commanders going through generations Vera stood out as one of the dumbest not even of his day arguably of all time long story short despite multiple glaring warnings he marched three entire Legions into the thick of the Germanic forests Varys trusted the locals at their their word to house some of his men Varys trusted good old arminius who had reports of a German Rebellion they only had to go deeper into the woods to find it probably not the smartest move by Varys when the Romans realized what was going on it was too late it was so hard for the Romans to fight in these Woods because it's it's uh like Germany's so thickly forested and Guerilla tactics work so well there and it's one of the reasons why you know Germany did not have a lot of success you know uh home Terrain is just such like an underrated thing even if you have even if you have numbers but even if you have technological superiority uh geography is such an underrated has has had such an underrated role in military outcomes so I don't know I guess in this scenario they they they're able to just I don't know bulldoze it they have some like super tree cutting weapon we'll say three Legions found themselves in the middle of the woods surrounded by Warriors the Battle of forest would read like a comedy if it wasn't so horrific armenius never forgot what the Romans did he had been plotting uniting the tribes under the Romans nose and now lead 20,000 were dead three whole Legions swallowed up Rome was no stranger to insurmountable losses or ambushes or rebellious Chieftain 20,000 was really just a drop in the bucket even by the Republic standards slaves okay so what do you bring up con a drop in the bucket even by the Republic cone Punic War standards slaves Hannibal parthians all managed to put dirt in the Roman eye but this was different first this was the first major defeat of the Empire the first stain on the pristine augustian record from the emperor's perspective he needed to send a message before other Chieftain or Worse Roman generals got any ideas secondly this hum defeat was the result of treachery treachery and Ambush was not Warfare to the RAB it was cowardice for centuries Rome's guide to Warfare was really just meeting up on a fair Battlefield under the watchful gaze of the Gods and seeing who wins it's why they really didn't like parthians either damn archers on horses get back here armenius played a dangerous Gamble and it paid off but doing so broke any semblance of a hope that Germanic tribes would ever be into into the imperial system but if Germania wouldn't be a part of the Empire it would still at least need to be pacified Rome's version of pacified What followed next was a series of campaigns Roman pacification is it's it's such a fine line because I mean there were things about them you might not see as very like oppressive but like if you did not follow the Roman policies about being one of their provinces I mean they were unbelievably brutal unbelievably brutal they would annihilate places if they did not follow suit it's almost like that the Mongols of the ancient world under the commander called germanicus the Roman Revenge was brutal marging east of the rine again they systematically eradicated any tribe that played a part the Fallen conflict would go on for years ending only once the Romans finally got the fair fight they wanted despite heavy losses on both sides Rome came out on top AR minus Was Defeated and Faded from relevancy eventually he was just poisoned by political rival R never that's usually what happens when you lose and that was a sense of Pride for later German dynasties both Alisia and tberg were romanticized by later medieval dynasties sure and the prussians all as a glorious resistance against Roman such a big part of German history at tabuk Forest talked obviously a lot more by in German history than it is Roman history FL ladin rule in the 19th centur the German Empire erected a statue to arminius in the very same Forest where 20,000 Romans lost their lives he stood there facing the modern day Latin that's the French so here's an idea what if di you know died before he became a headache for real what if an uh what if armenius was out of the picture okay so now we're getting to the wh ifs okay they actually success I mean how how much are you going to really pivot onto this guy Rome sustain T of casualties putting down the great yyan Revolt so is it really the craziest idea to just imagine if arminius was among them say he just Falls in battle random Arrow cut by a sword steps on a land mine take your pick easy enough but with the death man really alter history that much so much that it leads to the conquest of Germania well prior to the Revolt Emperor Augustus himself planned a campaign with his stepson aiming to push the Roman Frontier to the Elba River a goal for which his successor tiberias was promised 12 Legions and a massive Fleet prior to tberg it was he who would carry those plans out but instead in our timeline he appointed the brilliant but brutal germanicus to use those plans for a war of extermination not Conquest as incompetent as Varys was that's what some of the Roman campaigns were I feel like that's what Caesar did essentially just a genocide probably held the province until Tiber was done in panonia in this alternate timeline the year is 11 ad and an unprepared divided and partially bried Germanic people are beset by an army of 66,000 men at the helm of this Force the future Emperor who had just maxed out his military admin and diplomatic stats unlike germanicus tiberious knew when to sheath the Gladius and use Roman gold instead diplomacy and money were sometimes more effective than Warfare for sure for sure even brutal conquerors like the Mongols did that you know they they understood that protection of trade and again like being able to tax trade was so much more beneficial than just wiping out people so I usually see that kind of offered and the Romans kind of do that too in some instances it depends on the leader and things like that some some of these rulers just uh or these generals just went total Ham on them but it was always better in the interest of Rome just to be able to um try to negotiate and get tribute already landed the first major blow to the Clans and if the history of Rome before and after this conflict is anything to go by everything west of the elow river could potentially be conquered within 2 to 5 years as crazy as that sounds the conquest of Greece G can someone tell me at all so between the Ry and the Elba at this time how many people are we probably talking about populating that area I know it's a populous area but how how would it compare to the population density of Gul so France um let me know down below Egypt and Britannia were all done in a similar time frame just because Germania was a bit farther it didn't make it impossible to conquer terms would be set tributes and hostages claimed and a ferocious but fragmented Germanic people could be subjugated by a foe who in their eyes was invincible remember there would be no tberg disaster to challenge that fact sometimes simply playing off the fears of the conquered and playing their local politics is enough to win this was a tactic Rome did many times okay integrating Germania okay so they're actually going to try to integrate him so what I would presume here is um enlisting into the military I think that's that's going to be probably the first and foremost um they're probably going to have to send out a census and try to get taxing information as well usually things that Rome did during the Pax Rana to try to keep this stuff together seems anti and a whole lot of construction Roman Engineers coming in building up cities infrastructure you know that would have come pretty quickly too on Jimmy I will admit I spent through the conquest a little odd considering this video is about Rome conquering Germany but this is why despite all the speculations about how Roman Logistics would be strained in the dense forests of Germany we have a lot of historical precedents to go off of here and looking at similar situations I don't think this campaign would be imp possible to do see in our timeline Logistics were not that much of a problem thanks to the Roman Navy command structure and Road system if they wanted it done it would get help got the job done after armenius plundered 20,000 sets of armor and weapons without this Edge and facing the sneaky diplomacy tactics of tiberious Germania as in the general region is open for subjugation unlike Britannia which had some semblance of a primitive monarchy with cities and agriculture Germany had none of those things nothing like what Germany is going to be going through I mean there's still you know herders and and whatever I mean that the whole you got to understand the difference of what cities were in the Roman Empire than a lot of these other parts of the world it's it's on a different level Roman cities the decentralized and semi-nomadic nature of these Kelts combined with their passion for hardship ABS keto diet what give tiberious a hiccup or two is just very similar to the Anglo Zulu War what is complicated however is the integration of said people into an Empire that was already on the verge of overextension by Emperor cities and Roads would have to be I mean again they overextended without taking that territory that was part of my early thesis was I think we'd still see the same thing happen but maybe even ushered quicker Farmland developed people pacified but Rome could do all of that provided there was an upside to it what upside even is there there's nothing here except there is something called the Amber Road Amber was a luxury resource that the Mediterranean was obsessed with some reason but when there's demand there is sure to supply unlike Goldston Amber is primarily found in just a couple places on no they're they're about to make they were oned they were going to make Jurassic Park weren't they oh gosh I'm glad this didn't happen the Dominican Republic me Myanmar and the Baltic the Amber Road from the Baltic dates back to Neolithic times and the material who the Romans called electrum was incredibly precious to them the same resource was a big reason why the tonic order in Hans got pretty rich of Millennia later control over the guarantee a tremendous amount of revenue for the Empire justifying even more resources being sent over to consolidate ter did I did I just like days out when he said what what was the use of it is it just as like like a precious mineral for for uh art Amber was only the first enticement for Rome however because then there's Saxony or the region we today call by the way Amber is is is tree sap hardened over time during the middle because Saxony or the region we today call Saxony during the Middle Ages the Saxons were famous for more than just plundering these were the best smiths in Europe who developed Tech patter welding SAR Damascus steel and one of the greatest are they Damascus steel techniques of pattern welding similar to that of Damascus steel and one of the greatest to that was the very terrain of Saxony and Bohemia itself these Hills were rich in metal iron copper silver lead and zinc as well as the clay needed to make bloomery furnaces resources that in our timeline Rome never discovered but with just a little bit more time in the region well they would trade for it moment they uncovered what lay in these Hills they would never want to leave and also they'd want to develop them what I'm talking about here is I never doubted the settlement of Germany an alternate foundation for certain parts of Germany at least urban populations founded centuries before they did in our timeline areas that eventually became Prague and dresda which in our timeline had to wait until the 9th and 12th century so they would have been yeah they would have been a lot more romanized wouldn't they kind of like London um will eventually be that's kind of neat to think about yeah a very different Prague Dresden cool cool all right okay okay become settlements now become founded by Rome at its Roman bath in fact this entire region would receive the same treatment the Romans gave to Cologne Mains Trier and aen all of which started out as forts in fact the frontier cities on the elbow would have been more developed in this timeline oh yeah for sure I mean aen is going to be is going to be uh um important nevertheless because it's going to be a capital for the Holy Roman Empire significantly altering future events in ways I truly can't even predict perhaps this the Roman EMP alternate medieval kingdoms an alternate cultural center for the Holy Roman Empire perhaps this changes the very borders of the Frankish kingdoms themselves whose just say well maybe there are no Franks as we know them they would have just been fully Incorporated instead of being the dominant Germanic group post uh fall of Western Rome no Charlemagne what I can predict though is that for the time being this region gets the G treatment I would hope that it wouldn't get the G treatment but it most likely would last but certainly not least we have to talk about the Romans themselves trees yes trees fun fact I went to Greece a few years back one thing that really surprised me was how Barren it was dry the hills Dr that is so many Barren Hills wasn't always like that turns out Athenians cut down so many trees to build their Fleet they ended up causing severe levels of deforestation it was an environmental disaster from which Central Greece never really recovered and this never thought of it that way of thinking of it of just I mean obviously there would be deforestation but it's already such an aid climate where a place like uh Germany is going to be able to replenish trees a lot more cuz it's a lot wetter with that climate so a place like Greece would be more prone to ecological disaster because of their warm climate this same effect eventually affected the Roman Empire as a whole but Germany still had trees a lot of trees any strategy gamer will tell you how important Lumber is and the abundance of Lumber in these newly lands go a long way this new Lumber Supply would bring in immense production of charcoal which helped with standard agricultural development and of course it would be used in construction of walls and buildings These are nice new developments for Rome new resources are always nice but all of these Pros pale in comparison to the cons Rome would avoid in this alternate timeline because while Conquering the cons that they would avoid so this would he's saying this would be beneficial Germany might make you imagine Rome would avoid in this alternate timeline because while conquering Germany might make you imagine an Empire stretching its limits it could perhaps lead to to an even more powerful and prosperous Imperium simply by removing potential future enemies well they did plenty of that anyways so I don't know it just it just seems harder especially with how difficult infrastructure is going to be the further you go back in time and the Romans did incredible infrastructure for their time but you know it's different than than now I mean there's a reason why empires have always failed uh to replicate anything close to what Rome had ever done even with modern technology but we'll see in 12 ad Augustus recalled Tiberius as he was on his deathbed nearly 76 years old Octavian left the Empire Inc competent hands but in this alternate timeline these were the same hands that brought Germania into the fold surely integrating the green Labyrinth filled with Fierce and bitter Warriors would be an impossible task right once again we have plenty of precedents how long did it take for the proud Helen to call themselves Roman surely it would have taken centuries to pacify the GS after what Caesar did to them right well I mean Rome at this time was still kind of like racist as I guess is the right term eventually like like Augustus did set a pattern eventually where they were opening up positions not just on like the ethnic Romans um but to open it up to again potentially conquered people and people of different ethnic backgrounds but this was still an early time period where they there was quite a division uh between like ethnic Romans and non right how about Egypt a place with Customs so different from the Romans they might as well have come from a different planet the thing is when it came to Rome I mean I don't know the Greeks like to copy the Egyptians and the Romans cop copied the Greeks so it's not that far off those things didn't matter you could say they were incredibly efficient at integration Gul was romanized within a single generation Egypt became the Empire's bread basket and most lucrative Province and the Greeks were the last Romans to ever fall it was bloody and brutal but it work Rome's greatest enemies places like dea Britannia and Anatolia all eventually became Roman and even carried on the title gone so why couldn't Germania have done this the Romans still allowed a lot of Expressions um cultural expressions of people that they conquered yeah they wanted you to worship the emperor and you know maybe give s and give sacrifices to Roman gods but they let you keep a lot of their cultural aspects probably to prevent Rebellion same if anything it would have been faster Germania stands out as the least populace in most divided of any of these regions even without the punitive campaigns Logistics would still be roughs navies and navigated the danu river perfectly tiberias wasn't a great emperor and Caligula was F tier but the Pax ROM had already developed an Unstoppable inertia if Rome built 30 forts on the Elba it's possible that it's just game over seriously I really think Germania could have been romanized within 100 years all in all imagine what happened with the Celtic culture and people in Britannia apply it here the Romans adopted some of the Celtic Pantheon the Celtic language here is wiped out and replaced with Lain and over a century dozens of Highly developed Urban centers spring up on key rivers and a many and that would have been massive those rivers that go through Germany the Ry and then again uh what's uh you had the Elba there but then like the danu those are such economic powerhouses they're like many Nile Rivers you know that the Romans did not control that that would have been great you know for trade again because like he was saying it was so re resourcer with uh Lumber of course being one but you know the mining so yeah there was definitely economic incentive I feel like to go in here not definitely not disagreeing with that blocks off Denmark at the end of the first what happened to the Danes and a mini hadr wall blocks off Denmark do you think they would have had this a similar problem with you know uh Denmark that they had like with Scotland do you think they would have the same thing where they're just going to like give up and be like let's just let's just block them off that make sense okay these like pre Vikings get keep them away at the end of the first century ad the integration could be pretty much complete and just in time for the four good Emperors who ushered in the peak of the Roman Empire we going to get a Germanic Emperor we going to get a German Emperor I know I've been holding back the presumed cons but allow me to build up some more suspense first because to crack the fall of Rome we have to figure out when and why Rome fell in the first place a lot of people think that these are two very different questions when in reality the rise and Falls of civilization never happen overnight whether it be the bureaucratic Han Dynasty the maritime venan Republic nomadic Mongols or onion Ottomans all of them had a steady rise and fall we just tend to look at the Milestones the empire was no different and pointing to years like 410 or 476 I mean there was vast differences of how each of those just fell with uh with China Ottoman Empire Mongols they all had very different circumstances but really do much to answer to years like 410 or 476 doesn't really do much to answer the why so when and why was it was it overexpansion corruption Invasion Civil War slavery Christianity nope I mean yeah it was all of those things but there was one overlooked factor that was kind of bigger than them all plagues the antonine plague which lasted from 165 to 180 Ed the Golden Age and began the process which unraveled the West sure there were moments when Rome bounced back but consider the parallel to alexio Kos he also saved the byzantines from certain demise and patched them up by calling the Crusades and relying on Italian republics for his trade and Navy for at least a century the byzantines were doing good and then they imploded big time with oh that's an interesting one cuz in this timeline would you not have had Dian sort of splitting the administrative dis or splitting the administration of Rome or what Constantine's going to do would this have uh kept them from splitting or could it have ushered on you think the splitting of the administration of Rome that again it becomes bigger earlier so someone like Dian comes in is like hey we got to like we got to make that break even earlier that's something to think about the effect this would have on the early not even not even The Bu Empire but like just those decisions in the last 150 years of Western Rome Crusade that sounds s like an event that makes for a good alternate history visual novel Ultramar I'm the narrator it's pretty neat where was I oh yeah small pox the antonine plague struck down Emperor vys and significantly altered the reign of the incredible Marcus aurelus go read meditations most importantly this thing wiped out between a third and a quarter of the entire population truly just picture what that meant trade networks broke down economic collapse Germanic tribes invading Groves the Empire experienced vast labor shortages and people just began leaving the urban centers in favor of the country side all the things that made Rome Rome were falling apart especially Roman medicine Roman medicine is the underground savior of the Empire contributing to their Supreme Logistics and a life expectancy not seen until the 20th century Roman amputation survival rates were better than those of the American Civil War my point here is that the other thing that off that because the two big population Killers uh in history are disease but also famine and Roman uh productivity in agriculture was was very very high and they actually overproduced in a lot of areas and end up actually um hurting their land with that so that's the other factor that they would have been able to overcome with while Rome was crippled its medicine was dead based on archaeological findings and manuscripts we see a severe decline in their knowledge and application of of Remedies and treatments Roman Medics understood all sorts of maladies how important preventive medicine and nutrition was they had sanitation anesthesia and antiseptics but the only thing they and every other pre-19th Century civilization lacked was germ Theory while they had some defenses against bacteria Rome was powerless in the face of small pox well it's going to be harder too because of the urbanization there um the urbanization of uh Rome it was way more urbanized than Europe was when the Black Death of the 14th century happened so it actually would have spread even fur even further and would have been you know even harder to quarantine which they did not do a very good job in the of in the 1300s plague when the plague first hit the Medics were the first to throw themselves at the enemy and within two decades every teacher and student was gone without its factor and a third of its population wiped out Rome decided to rely on ger mercenaries for its own defense the old system of large Legions and walls defending the empire was replaced with flexible autonomous system a system which would eventually morph into feudalism the Black Death fundamentally changed European Society but I would argue that the antonine plagues effects were even more far-reaching the empire was not really overexpanded let me digest that a little bit the antonine plague being more more impactful than the uh than the the black death of the 1300s I have to analyze that a little bit because I mean there was already I mean the the post plague 1300s and into the 1400s is going to bring in of course the Renaissance and you could look at that and value that I guess the way that you want to some people call it overrated some people don't you also get the 100 Years War that's going to happen afterward so yeah I'd have to digest that a little bit and see if I agree but um it could have an effect I guess he's saying that that that that plague would have had a different effect if you had the Germans um kind of around for that I don't know if it was a logical logically followed um with that whole like okay now they're going to use German mercenaries and stuff like that I'm not quite making that connection I mean I guess it's a possibility but until the plague the rich Elite which acted as nobility participating in the war effort decided to now use dramatic people for that role it was the plague that transformed them into a with nothing better to do than dabble in corruption and power plays often leading to just Civil War Rome dealt with invasions before but after the plague they opened their gates to the one group of people who hated them the most then handed them the keys and sword just 2 years after the out Germanic people crossed the for the first time since lus the first time in 200 years the amount of slaves actually decreased after the plague since Rome was now on the back foot which coupled with the labor shortages crippled the economy so why not just make that the point of Divergence here why F that that was an effect of the Black Death was um a slower end of serum as paid labor became more popular at that time because labor just became a lot more valuable when you know a third of people died like they did in the 13th century focus on Germany well because while in our timeline Germania became Western Rome's undoing and this alter scenario its people would have been Roman citizens for Generations but in this alternate timeline the still hits and it wipes out a third population Marcus is succeeded by commus the Apple which catapulted itself far from the tree however while the Romans in our timeline had the great idea to open the floodgates to the Germanic Chieftains for protection in this timeline there are no Germanic Chieftains at least ones that aren't in modern-day Poland or SC Avia in this alterate 165 ad Germanic people speak Latin they enjoy gladiatorial games and they make up an imperial Cornerstone much like in Gaul the politics of centuries ago would be long forgotten things are still bad of course but recruiting German mercenaries just isn't on the table here they haven't existed since the time of the first Emperors even if Rome does decide to replicate it and hire foreign mercenaries who do they invite PS Armenians parthians apart from the parthians every major culture surrounding the empire in this timeline is either genocide or integrated compare this Frontier to this Frontier look at where the most subsequent invasions came from the fact is the Elba River followed up by the danu makes for a foolproof defense line in my armchair alternate history strategist opinion that is really putting on my Rome Total War thinking camp for this one now the migrations would always have happened because the Huns still would have happened much like plagues random horse Lord invasions are just kind of inevitable and a lot of people would still slam up against Roman defenses but now there are no antagonistic Germans to just let them in the migration simply sponge into the Border a border which is much easier to defend and an Empire which wasn't as weak or corrupted this is no peak real easier to defend not for like Geographic reasons but just cuz they have all these Germanic people to be able to hold it down that I mean the latter there would be the better description of this and hypothesis mind you that state dies with the plague but perhaps there's no crisis of the 3rd Century here and that could have been massive now where the timeline goes from here is anybody's guess when you're dealing with timelines that far back changes this impactful the uncertainty Factor goes through the roof but one of the most interesting consequences of this scenario is that with the Angles and Saxons gone you have no invasion of Roman Britannia would Constantine even need to move the capital under these conditions how does a Christian what I was thinking I this totally changes a timeline there where it's like not even necessary for moving the capital splitting I mean you could still split the Empire though I still think that might be even more plausible like what the dian's going to do but maybe not moving the official Capital like Constantine does Germania affect things do the Huns focus on the East instead leading to a timeline where the West remains a Bastion well they I mean they attacked the East anyways they just the East was way more formidable so maybe just the the um Germans or sorry the Romans here would have been better off at better off at um preventing hunt invasions cuz that was the big domino effect while thce Anatolia and maybe even Egypt fall does Western feudalism even develop in this timeline who knows if you really enjoyed this I could come back and see where things go from here yeah probably just because I mean feudalism maybe take on another form because I mean feudalism isn't really necessary when a third of your population is slaves which is what Rome was like it had the third of the population was slaves now with feudalism yeah you have surf which is pretty close to slavery but before I go thanks to all the patrons who support the channel I really do appreciate it this is Cody of alterate History Hub final thoughts all right so where I think I guess I would say I largely differed a little bit was he he really kind of focused it looked like on the pros of the conquest of Germany and again forgetting like how hard it would might have been to take them or whatever just saying that it went pretty smoothly um I don't know if I would uh buy to it as much because I still feel like the same reasons why Rome is going to fall are still going to happen being overextended not having really the the loyalties deep down for a lot of their foreign uh people cuz yeah they did integrate people but you know culturally and as far as like loyalty and stuff goes not not so much so I don't I think it it it would have had a similar outcome I think the Huns would probably come in I don't think it would be as strong um there up there in Germany as maybe he would have thought um I I still think he would have had those similar issues so that's what I thought but it's alternate history there is no right answer but uh there was plenty of things U he said that would have been very logical anyway but what do you think what do you think would happen if Rome had actually conquered Germany let me know down below all right we'll see youall next time bye [Music] [Music]