Two therapists discuss How to leave a Narcissist #narcissist #narcissism #empath #relationship #relationshipadvice

See the stone set in your eyes See the thorn twist in your heart I wait Slight of hand and twist of fate On a bed of nails she makes me wait And I wait Without you With or without you Through the storm we reach the shore You give it all but I want more And I'm waiting for you With or without you But you are Yourself away Of yourself away And you give Yourself away Hands are tied A bruise she got me with Nothing to win As And you give Yourself away And you give Yourself away With or without you I can live And we've ended up with a finale which is How does one Move through and beyond the pain of A narcissistic relationship, Ray? This was the toughest task we've ever been set To end on Helping somebody in a narcissistic relationship And helping the empath to try and get out Helping the narcissist not to Be a narcissist anymore The more that I looked into the Things for the help The more I realised it was impossible to help somebody The podcast and the words Are going to hit Somebody in a difficult situation And they can Listen to it and understand it Because they understand English But it's different to change that into Behaviour and actions Yeah, they're just, in a sense, empty words Aren't they? And what people are going through With a narcissistic relationship They've got a feeling of love Attachment Dependency on that And that nourishment from that relationship So to try and tease them away To offer them an avenue Or a place beyond the pain Which is a heavenly place of Fulfilment and bliss Doesn't really touch the spot, does it? Because people are emotionally attached To these difficult relationships That's it, and I think some people They're not even feeling the pain Because There's a small percentage of people That do want to change And they're going to therapy And they're watching podcasts like this To purposely change And they've felt enough pain Having the progress of moving forward There's a percentage out there that will watch these And understand that they're in a relationship But not in the They haven't felt enough pain to move And fear and pain, for me Makes that movement of change 100% yeah, pain is crucial In terms of making that step To move beyond that difficult relationship It's fascinating when you think of If you get two different people Their thresholds of pain are completely different And arguably their Thresholds of pain are Dependent upon their early Emotional upbringing or environment And you can imagine putting two different people In freezing cold water Naturally one will be able to withstand the pain And suffering of that cold water A lot longer than the other So pain and suffering is relative to the individual So for somebody else to look at That relationship and go Surely you've had enough now Surely you've gone through enough pain to move beyond it For them, because they're so used to That type of pain, that type of relationship They're willing to endure that Coldness a lot longer than somebody else Does that make sense? Yeah that's it, exactly So if we look at it as well If pain is a crucial part of moving beyond What we mean by pain is Eventually we'll get to a state of That much diabolical suffering and pain That then you want to escape it And the only way that you can Find is usually the option of Removing yourself from that relationship And it has to reach a diabolical state Even the person that's been Freezing cold in the water and has lasted Ten minutes longer than the other person Eventually that cold will either Kill them or they will try and escape That hyperthermia by moving Out of the water And that's where the change is going to take place That's when, if you truly Want a narcissist to change Their behaviour for you You're going to have to go through That pain barrier yourself To see if the narcissist Can then do the same thing Because the narcissist is going to have to go through the same process too Yeah and usually what happens With narcissists is the way they deal With the pain is Funny enough to remove themselves From that relationship That's why it's a lot easier for a narcissist to End or walk away from a relationship And go cold, no communication Which hurts the person That's in the relationship with Think of this right We had a comment in the week Talking about narcissism And the lady who commented said It was when I chose Not to have that type of relationship Anymore, well I would argue that you never chose Right You never chose to not Have that relationship anymore It was just a case of that it got that uncomfortable You had no choice In terms of how you felt emotionally To avoid what was causing you the pain Yet you had the thought then Of I don't want to be Or interact in this relationship Anymore and then your ego Makes the assumption that It chose to not feel the pain When actually it was a physiological Emotional response to not wanting to Feel any more pain wasn't it Yes and that's one thing that we've learnt through Studying the mind and psychology Is that actually we don't have any choices What so ever We now project sitting here That we like to help people And have understood our own minds Our own behaviour Our own patterns of life And we want to feed back Where really what is going on Is a stuff that was outside Of our control And situations That happen that took us to a point of Real pain and by real pain I mean not to the point where You just watch a few little things and you understand That you're in a narcissist and empath relationship Things where you're Possibly suicidal You're possibly getting really really bad Mental health from it You're probably affecting work Social relationships, family The whole big thing is just coming to an end And then we project that Into a podcast for people To look at and say These guys have got their ---- together Where it's really no worth We don't know why we're doing this One thing is And I've been guilty of it in the past Is judging why people can't come out of these relationships But actually the only way You will ever walk out of this relationship Is because that water Got too cold for too long It was never a choice And it won't be anything that we said I've done lots of notes today I can give you tips And stuff that you might relate to And I've broke it down Because there are stages of consciousness That you have to understand to get to the point of understanding that Go through some of those notes, think Ray So for me the first thing And it goes back to what we covered in the first and second podcast And it's understanding That you're no different from the narcissist And it's lack of judgement of the other This is crucial for me Because if you're sitting there Saying you're the better one And that one's got to change It leaves you with no change for yourself For the other person to change Because that other person needs to change When you change So it's crucial So to break this down quite easily Hopefully you get this, it's common sense I took down a few points Of what the meaning of narcissism is And this is what it comes out with And how I can relate this to an empath First of all they have an inflated sense Of their own importance Now instantly My common sense says That every single human being Has that We all just want to survive and want to be comfortable So there straight away When you label that as Yes he has got an inflated sense Of his own importance His own ego, he always wants to have everything His own way Aren't you wanting something a different way Absolutely And then one you could do is If you label the narcissistic With narcissistic personality disorder What you're saying by the empath Is the empath has a personality disorder Themselves but they're unconscious of that They project that the narcissist Is the one with the problem So there's actually two labels there The narcissist and the empath Both have a personality disorder That allows them To unite in that relationship And go through the suffering being stuck in it And that's it And we're trying to work on your weaknesses As the empath To make sure that you either A. Get out of this toxic relationship Or B. Fix the toxic relationship Because you're not strong enough to remove yourself from it And you actually want it to work Because you might have children, family Been together for a long time It's not always been like this So understanding this Instantly you might think What you're saying How can we just be as bad as the narcissist And the ego defence is coming up again now And this is what we're trying to Get you to capture This conscious awareness that comes up And defends your identity And this is crucial for me To firstly understand that step Yes He hurt me, she hurt me That's my defence That I felt pain When actually if you look at it Both of you have felt pain Both of you have felt discomfort Both of you aren't getting What you want ultimately That's the ego defence isn't it I see, yeah So we have that We have the second one that I found was That they have a deep desire For attention It's all about themselves Now I have seen on narcissist Basically social sites That really Every empath is on there All this attention for themselves Asking the questions Am I wrong to want to go out tonight And he says no Now for me that's a vocabulary That says can you Answer me a hundred comments And support me through this process You're doing the same thing as a narcissist Again turn it around On yourself and realise that You need to get stronger And you need the narcissist To let go of that strength That holds you, that enslaves you In this relationship So you have got no Option but to sort out Your weaknesses And a lot of people aren't willing to do that Because we go back to the Uncomfortable pain bit And the uncomfortable pain bit is where the change happens Where you can get strong enough To change Absolutely, if you was to grab hold of something And hurt yourself with it It would create a certain amount of discomfort wouldn't it But you'd rather keep doing that Than to chop your arm off Because actually the pain and discomfort Of hurting yourself Is far less than actually Removing your limb You're always going to choose what is more comfortable Over what's least comfortable Which means staying in the relationship The idea of being on your own Away from that The only thing that gave you fragments of fulfilment Is horrifying To your emotional self Your emotional self will go into a state of pure Survival Pure fear And nobody wants to feel those feelings So they continue to do what feels Slightly better Which to the observer, the objective person Looking at the relationship goes How can you keep pulling up with that How can you keep doing it Well it's just because you want to feel Something that feels slightly better Than the death of the self And it could be fear of That moment when you're alone You might actually think That no one other than this Man and woman, the narcissist Can ever love you You might have a bad Just a simple belief system like that If I split up with a narcissist If I get really strong Am I going to meet somebody else ever again Because in a delusional world Some people will think that That somebody else isn't good enough for them They have that horrible Sort of It's just like a really bad brainwashing That they've created themselves And if we look at pain and fears Why is it that it's much easier for the narcissist To walk away from the relationship Now absolutely it will cause the narcissist A lot of discomfort to do it But I'll tell you what Causes the narcissist a lot more discomfort Is him or her Making you believe That they need you That scares the ******* Living daylights out of them They are petrified of that Because that means That for them it feels like They're weak or vulnerable And what they've done The narcissist, whether they went through a painful childhood Where they felt vulnerable And was hurt for being vulnerable They were taught that pain and vulnerability And not being enough Was that painful, what they did was To survive, they created an illusion of self One of being overly Overly successful They put themselves on a pedestal All psychological Defence mechanisms that create Emotional states of being That make them feel better With who they are So the last thing a narcissist will ever want to do Is make you feel Like they need you That scares them more than losing you Hands over a little bit of power and control Which they're just not It's just alien to them isn't it Yeah And fortunately Andrew you have said Perfectly where we can go into Part of the cure now Part of the help way If we can understand that first That there is no difference I can't judge the other person And you break it down beautiful Your diagnosis of how We see a situation which is pure Imaginary illusions Of I'll put myself on this mantle And I'm down here The empath is currently below The mantle of the narcissist Right This is how the world works Your reality Isn't actually external to you It's a reaction inside you To the outside events Now this is the next step of understanding If you realise Whatever you put attention to Actually becomes your relationship It becomes your situation If you think Let's just Take this for an example You and me Don't like flying We don't like to go in the plane We think the worst case scenario Happens, pure imaginary thoughts That we're going to die We're going to crash, it's not safe to be that far in the air Logical Makes a lot of sense Stops us from doing something like somebody else Where they're just calm and enjoying it Now if you asked me and you To jump out of a plane And do that thing with a parachute We're not going to do it Because we're going to have 3 or 4 hours Of a nervous procedure before that A nervous breakdown basically That's it But if I was to inject you with something Take you up there without you knowing You're having a beautiful dream And all of a sudden you wake up You're attached to a chap And as your friend's done this as a surprise You're going to wake up And for the first second you're going to ---- yourself But after that mini second You're going to have this adrenaline rush And realise this is amazing And all that drama You never went up on the plane You never had the nervousness So we've got to make sure you understand what's going on You've got to actually Cut the cord to that You reacting to everything that happens You reacting to all your emotions Yes it's been your instinct For the whole of your life to do that But if you want to change If you want to take steps forward And get out of a toxic relationship That's bad for you You're going to have to learn how To separate that emotional connection That he's going to leave me now No I've done it for 2 days He hasn't texted me back I've got to text him, I've got to be the weaker person I've got to get back with him before And the reason why people can't do it Is because their inability to feel more uncomfortable Than they felt beforehand We hear plenty of Empaths with Empath Personality Disorder Which is a brand new label We're bringing out today by the way Let's say I couldn't leave him because I had kids I couldn't leave him because I didn't have anywhere to go I couldn't leave her because I had kids I couldn't leave her because I didn't have anywhere to go Well what did it mean to Walk away with kids And put them in a different environment A shitter environment A difficult house A hostel Massively uncomfortable Let's be honest They're not learning the unconscious traits Of a toxic abusive Narcissistic relationship But you can't see that logically Because it's better to stay In what's familiar and known That's uncomfortable Than to walk into the unknown That's filled with imagination Which projects pure fear onto it Are my kids going to be safe in a hostel Am I going to be ok Let's be honest The only way you're ever going to move beyond A narcissistic Toxic relationship Is to choose What most living human beings Have never been able to do on the planet And it's choose To feel more uncomfortable And lose the imagination Don't project on you Leaving that narcissist A full wide range of fears and imaginations That tell you it's going to be much worse The kids are going to suffer The kids need to see the dad Who am I going to live with What happens if I've got nowhere to go Can I move in with mum Can I go and stay in a motel Don't get lost in the imagination Go, leave, that is it That is all you can do And we're talking about Really what do you do To stand up to a bully What have you done in the past To stand up to that gaffer That has been on to you Talking to you like ---- What have you done in the past You've been the nice guy You've gone in 10 minutes early Hoping he'll leave you alone And he constantly bullies you He constantly only has a go at you When was the moment that he stopped The moment he stopped was when you Didn't give him that allowance to do that You didn't give him freedom to do that I know a lot of people That aren't with the same person They was in a toxic relationship 40 years ago And they still can't mention that person's name And it's the thing is it again It's so difficult because you're talking about fear again It's like the It can be one of the most incredible things To liberate us from suffering But also one of the most crippling things I mean how can somebody not do that in a job Well what's the fear of the consequences Of speaking up to this person with all the power They will take your ******* finances Your security away from you So it's better to stay In an abusive toxic Employment relationship Than it is to leave And it's like what happens if I lose my job Again the imagination kicks in I'm not going to be able to support my kids So let's be honest If we're talking about Really being honest here today You can't blame people For being in toxic relationships Because the unknown The consequences of Walking and losing your security Your food Your wages Your home We can't even begin to tell people To do that And I can say that in the past All of my actions have been Completely unconscious in the moment In the time You can do certain things And I've I want to end it on a good note Because probably I've just projected All my anger and annoyance On how I can't actually get you out of that ---- ------- environment It's inevitable It's inevitable you're going to suffer It's inevitable you're going to get a cold this winter So how can we deal with this Inevitable act that's going to take place For the rest of your life If you don't learn about psychology and spirituality And you don't do this painful change How can we get you And pass you a message on To basically Suffer forever Not as bad As we hope and project in our minds That these words are going to help I can't wait to kick in here now One of the ways you say it right here Craig Is how do we Understand that reality has suffering in it And one of the greatest Buddhist parables Is the idea that when Buddha Who suffered a lot of his life Grew up Very wealthy I think he was a prince And he started to see That there was a lack of fulfilment In all these material possessions And he started to suffer And he wanted to question and understand what life was all about And he meditated for three years This is something that people don't do He closed his eyes and he looked within He looked into all of his emotions Became conscious of the state of being That had a label called Buddha on top of it And he realised That the number one cause for suffering Was desire I desire to be not in a narcissistic relationship I desire not to be Outside of the narcissistic relationship Because it feels better to be in it Rather than to be scared shitless of what the unknown is I desire to have a better job I desire to have a better car I desire,desire,desire,desire Desire is the root of suffering So He would teach this to his disciples And he would say ok guys Tell me if desire Is the root cause of suffering What is the way To not suffer anymore And his disciples would go away and they would contemplate They would think and they would return back to Buddha And they went not to desire If we can remove desire From this innate unconscious tendency That involves being a human being We can remove suffering And Buddha simply said So you're desiring not to desire Which meant there was no way out That this reality,this life that you are in That you are plugged into Suffering is the algorithm Suffering is the program You are going to suffer Which leads me nicely on to Craig's Which is a Buddha story Fantastic,now I love that story though Because that is again another Snails it,that's the program It's so simple And some people might take that story As it's negative Not to desire anything at all Not even to not desire desire I desire God in my life What happens when your faith goes You suffer You're always going to suffer with desire Which resets the clock in a sense It's like I've unconsciously desired all my life I've desired not to lose people in my life I've desired to love people And that love to stay forever And then I lost them I desired to stay healthy And my health went Everything is going to Disappear It's all going to fade And every attachment,need,want That you have Is going to fall through your hands Like sand So what can you do Craig That brings you on to your notes Thank you And I hope some people have watched it At this point because I think this is a cracker Forgiveness You're going to be stuck in a situation You need to forgive The narcissist for abusing you Because if you don't forgive the narcissist You are the narcissist If you don't forgive Everybody who's ever hurt you in the past And remember you're probably in the relationship Because somebody Else that you haven't forgiven Mummy and daddy in the past And somebody else deeper than that So if you forgive Everybody that ever hurt you And you forgive yourself For being that unconscious Or that conscious in the moment Not reacting when you should have Finishing with him when he was like this After two weeks or she was like this After a few weeks I've put myself,I've had a baby now I shouldn't have done that It's my own fault Forgive everything And instantly there's problems Problems that arise from that It's like it's ok for him to do that And she to do that It's like no This isn't talking about that It's not ok for anybody to be evil But what is ok That they don't enslave you 24 7 in that mental Mind that you don't even know what's going on That's where you can let go And that's where you can be free Yes And it also enables you to Be able to accept suffering Oh I've been trying to move away from it My whole life Oh my god this is the way it is This is the way it is I can accept it I can accept more of this toxic relationship I can accept that it's actually Supposed to be happening That the label toxic And wrong are a misconception By the psychological Science called psychology Of the last 300 years It puts everything into a box A psychological box Remove all those labels Everything is just happening Don't you think that you might not Have been the right son or daughter for your mum Do you not think that they Projected onto you a type of Son or daughter that they wanted Which meant that you could never have been enough Can you forgive yourself For not being the daughter Or the son that your mum and dad wanted Can you forgive your mum and dad That they was lost in an unconscious attempt To try and find love through their children The love that they never had From their toxic Mothers and fathers Can you forgive everything It's all just happening As Craig beautifully says It's about forgiveness Acceptance, acceptance That suffering is fundamental Don't try and run away from it Play with it, work with it Dance in it If it is inevitable It's going to be like that Let's learn to enjoy that situation Because I think in that forgiveness And if you try that right now Somebody that you can't imagine Forgiving Say it to yourself in the head Okay I forgive them And that little touch will make you feel better instantly Because you let go of all that ---- You're no longer the anger That you think is just in that person But I can't forgive them Craig And you know why I can't forgive them And I understand why I struggle to forgive people myself It's because they did something That made me feel pain Right That's why it's hard to forgive But I ask you How many things have you done in your life That you was completely unconscious of at the time That hurt mum, dad, your partner Your children Do you not want forgiveness from them That actually based on your conditioning Your environment Your childhood, your traumas You have been sculpted to be this certain individual That causes suffering in other people's lives That you never had any meaning You didn't want to cause it Do you not want to forgive yourself For that and now you look at them Because you felt pain and go I struggle to forgive them Well you need to be able to forgive yourself As much as you need to be able to forgive them In a dream case scenario A narcissist is watching this podcast An empath is watching this podcast And they both forgive themselves And do what we say Guess what, you're no longer in a toxic relationship You would be unable to be Narcissistic and empathic You will not be able to merge like that anymore Because all of that ---- That you've been holding Whether it was mummy and daddy that you was unconscious of Whether it was just the neighbour down the road That you can't hate because of your own Little reasons Judging them for being different Having a different belief system All we see every day Is everybody's different belief system As if they're all different to everybody else And it's like you don't make any choices In believing what you do Other than reacting To what that feeling Causes you So I enjoyed that It's a good way to end the Narcissistic Podcast Series of three episodes isn't it Craig Can we promise never to do this again Because I went somewhere darker this one Alright then Thank you everybody for tuning in