'Nazi vanity project': Eagle's Nest in Bavarian Alps a symbol of regime's 'conquest of nature'

The debate over what to do with the charred ruins of a mountain house built by the Nazis in 1938 continues in Germany. Known as the Eagle's Nest, the building was Adolf Hitler's mountaintop retreat. It was gutted in a suspected arson attack last month, and while some argue that rebuilding it would simply be an act of respect to the far-right Nazi parties, others say that historic buildings and sites need to be rebuilt. To be held in order for the world to remember. Well, to get more insight on it all, we're joined now by a specialist in Nazi Germany at the University of Cambridge, Professor Richard Evans. Thanks so much for your time. Can I start simply by asking you your opinion of what should happen to this site? Leave it fallow, rebuild it, or build something new, even potentially the opposite of what was there in the first place? Well, yes, thank you for inviting me on. This is a Nazi vanity project. It didn't really have a function except to advertise to the world that the Nazi regime kind of was conquering nature. It is nearly 2,000 meters up in the Alps. You got there by roads up to the top of the mountain and then an elevator, a lift up to this little building. It didn't have any bedrooms, it didn't have any facilities, it was just there to show visitors. And I'm afraid it was the French ambassador, Monsieur François Porcet, who christened it, in a visit there, the Eagle's Nest, which I think unfortunately romanticizes it. It's been, since the war, it's been used as a cafe, somewhere to take people, people can go and visit it, and it's a site of what you might call dark tourism, so it's just simply, it's a Nazi advertising project, and this has been burnt down by a man, and we're not quite sure why he's done it, but it has been more or less destroyed, and I think this is the opportunity to remove it. The charred remains, yeah, the charred remains are a mess and it should be cleared away and the mountain, the lift dismantled, the roads stopped, dug up and it should be restored to its natural state. A lot of people say that if nothing is done with the site, they somehow see that as becoming more attractive, nearly making it a pilgrim site for the far right. What do you make of that argument? Well, I think if you dig up the roads, this is 2,800, it's 1,800 meters up. It's a long way up, and it's not easy to get to. So I don't think there's a huge danger of it becoming a kind of pilgrimage site, in fact, much less than if you rebuilt it or put something in its place and allowed access still. Now, are there other examples? I know that there is the bunker in Berlin that was used by the Nazi party that still gets some attention. But are there other examples of buildings that the Nazi party built that are still being used? And, you know, what impact are they having on society? Well, Hitler's bunker, where he retreated in the last days of the war, an air raid bunker in Berlin, was filled in with concrete and a children's playground was built over it. So that's not a visiting site. The Berghof, the place where Hitler, further down the same mountain as the so-called Eagle's Nest, that was also destroyed at the end of the war to prevent pilgrimages and far-right visits. There are... Other buildings of the Nazis, particularly associated with Hitler, which were also destroyed. On the other hand, quite rightly, I think, we have very good memorial sites at the former concentration camps, the sites of Nazi crimes. So those are still there. And I think that's quite right. Having a... A physical remembrance for history, but not necessarily something that, as you say, as you described as a vanity project by the Nazi party. But ultimately, how big an impact do you think a building can have on people's psyche and their following of a movement? Well, I think it can be quite, quite major. I mean, you know, these buildings are demonstrations of Nazi power. And I think that's what the reason why they should go. And what do you think of the. Sorry, I mean, you think of the Nazi projects, it wasn't started by them, but the Autobahn, the motorways, freeways, those again were a demonstration of Nazi power over nature. And the memorial site now where the Nuremberg party rallies were held, that is still in use, in fact, in various functions. When we look at history, we say it's there to teach us, and that's why people call into question, you know, the part of history that we keep visual around us. But when we look at the far right today, I mean, how do you see the far right across Europe and the lessons we've learned from history? Well, you're quite right in saying it's across Europe. In Germany, it's called the Alternative for Germany, the Alternative für Deutschland. And what they are arguing in Germany is that it's really time to forget the past and to move on, not to concentrate so much, as Germany does at the moment, on the Nazi past. But, you know, the Nazis and Hitler committed... The greatest crimes in human history, the mass murder of six million Jews, mass murder of many others, of Soviet citizens, of Russians, they committed, they were entirely responsible for beginning World War II with its 50 million dead. So this is a hugely criminal regime, and I think it is important to remember it and And to figure out. How we can actually move on from there and how we think about it and not to try and forget. And I think that's a dangerous view and a part of the alternative for Germany. Very finally, before we leave you, the legacy that you see of the Nazi movement in the world today. Well, it is, more generally, it is a kind of toxic area of history. Hardly anybody identifies with the Nazi movement. That is because we know so much about the terrible crimes it committed. The Nazi movement itself has a few violent... far-right, extremist right-wing followers, but they're really politically not very important. And we do see the whole Nazi period in Germany and in Europe more generally, I think. We see it as a source of lessons about war, about racial hatred, about the evil that racism can bring. And that is something I think we need to remember and to pay attention to. Richard Evans from the University of Cambridge. Thank you very much indeed for bringing us your insights Thank you.