How DNA helped link Ted Bundy to previously unsolved Utah homicide

We had some breaking news coming in yesterday that we were reporting right around 11 o'clock in the morning out of Utah as investigators in that state were able to connect a decades-old cold case to Ted Bundy. We heard from investigators in Utah during a press conference the case of Melissa Smith, who had been investigated since the 70s. 1974 is when she first went missing. Investigators were able to use DNA that they still had on file from five decades ago to connect Smith's case to Bundy, a man who had been executed for his crimes about 37 years ago in the state of Florida. So just the technology, the resources, and the ability of law enforcement to find and provide answers to victims, families, and the rest of the community nearly a lifetime later, is such an important element to investigations and crime solving and something that did not exist until somewhat recently. This has been a growing tool. It's still a growing tool. And joining me now is Lindsay Wade. Lindsay had served as a Tacoma police officer for more than two decades. She continued her work at the state level and also is the author of a book that focuses on just the importance of DNA and how vital it is in police work. Lindsay, thank you so much for taking some time to join us. First thing I want to ask you is you probably heard the details that were coming out of yesterday's case. I know FOX 13's Lauren Donovan and reached out to you. When you first heard of this breakthrough that came in yesterday, what was going through your mind? It was just exciting news. These cases have been unsolved for decades, as you mentioned, since 1974. And so it was really exciting to see that after so many years, advancements in DNA technology had finally caught up and law enforcement was able to utilize new tools to actually test the evidence. And of course, I was very gratified because I worked so hard to make sure Ted Bundy's DNA was actually in the National DNA Database 15 years ago, back in 2011. So let's talk about that. 2011, it is at this point, you know, a lifetime for some people. You could be 15 years old. So you're talking about a time, this is before social media, This is before everybody had iPhones in their pockets or Androids. Technology was vastly different. You were making this push more than a decade and a half ago. Why did you feel, again, it's a different time. Why did you feel it was so important to get Bundy's information into this database at that point? So back in 2011, my partner and I were investigating a cold case. And it was actually the oldest cold case on file with Tacoma PD. and it was the 1961 abduction of Ann Marie Burr, who was an eight-year-old girl who'd gone missing from her home back in August of 1961. And Ted Bundy had long been a suspect in her case. And so when we started digging into it, I had a question about whether or not we'd have anything to compare our evidence to if we were able to obtain a DNA profile in the case. And we were in the process of going through the evidence that had been collected back in 1961 and getting ready to submit it to the crime lab. And so I started making calls to find out if Ted Bundy's DNA was actually in a database somewhere. And to my surprise, I learned it was not. It was not in Washington's DNA database. It was not in any other state's DNA database. And so essentially, one of our country's most notorious cross-country serial killers didn't have his DNA in the National DNA Database. I think, Lindsay, when you hear that now, it sounds so shocking that something that in the world that we live in now, that would not have happened, whether it was oversight or just not a thought. But let's talk about that because you were a member of law enforcement, you were an investigator. This was a different time, 2011, and how DNA has evolved from that point. Do you kind of, can you take us back to that, where you're asking these questions to probably investigators with, because you're asking, you know, who've been there for years and years and years, and you're getting these answers where they're saying, well, no, we don't have it. Do you remember what you were thinking or how you were feeling? Because presumably you could have just said, okay, great, thank you, and then moved on to whatever was your next task for that day. But that wasn't what you did. You took action to make a change. Yes. So when I reached out to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and spoke with their CODIS administrator, he let me know that he received similar calls from detectives around the country asking him the same question. Is Ted Bundy's DNA in CODIS? And the answer was always no. And so I wasn't really satisfied with that answer. And I knew that there were cases around the country that were still unsolved that Ted Bundy was likely responsible for. And so I felt that it was critically important for his DNA to be uploaded not only into Florida's DNA database where he was actually convicted, but up to the national DNA database so that if he committed crimes in any other states, there was the potential of linking him via CODIS. And so I basically started working with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the CODIS administrator there was willing to hear me out and felt that it was important as well to try to locate a sample of Bundy's DNA. And so he and I sort of put our heads together and came up with a plan for how we were going to try and locate a sample. It took a while. I went down the road here in Washington of reaching out to Ann Rule, the crime author, who I knew had letters that she had received from Ted Bundy when he was in jail and in prison. And I thought there was a possibility that we could get Bundy's DNA from the stamps on these letters. And so that was the only avenue that I had at my disposal at the time. Luckily, the CODIS administrator in Florida was able to actually locate a blood vial that had been collected in 1978. And it was sitting in a clerk's office in Columbia County, Florida. And so he was able to basically collect a couple of flakes of dried blood from that vial because the main blood vial itself was no longer good. It was putrefied. But they were able to generate a full DNA profile for Bundy and get it uploaded into Florida's DNA database. And that's where was going to stay initially was in Florida because he actually didn't qualify to go into the national DNA database. So I was happy that he was going into Florida's database, but I was concerned that he wasn't going into the national database for obvious reasons because other states needed to be able to compare profiles from their cases with Bundy. And so after some further discussions with the FBI, it was determined that he would go into the National DNA Database under the legal index. And so we're talking, again, years ago, but even during this time in 2011, it would have been about 20 plus years from when he was executed in the state of Florida. And Lindsay, one thing that I took note to as investigators were talking yesterday about this break in the case was just how vital it was for their investigation now in a different state entirely from Washington or Florida, but that they had these records still on file. They still had the evidence and they were able to use what they had and compare that to the evidence now available to Ted Bundy. The work that you did more than a decade ago, still helping years and years later to provide families of victims some sort of closure, because this is the second case that they were able to close in connection to Bundy this year. So this work continues to have impacts year after year after year. And you continue to work to continue evolving this resource. I'm looking now after your work with Tacoma, you work to get a law in the books for the state of Washington to make DNA more accessible in the state. Can you talk to me about this process? Because this would have been in 2019, nearly a decade after you started this effort with the Bundy DNA. Yes. So I worked with state legislators to get Jennifer and Michelle's law passed in 2019. And that's a DNA law that's named after Jennifer Bastian and Michelle Welch, two young girls who were murdered in Tacoma in 1986. And those were cases that I had worked on for years. And they were cases where we had a DNA profile in CODIS, but no matches. And so the law was aptly named after them. And it does several things to strengthen our DNA collection law in Washington. But most importantly, in my opinion, it allows DNA samples from deceased convicted offenders to be entered into our state DNA database, regardless of the conviction date. And this is critically important for cold case investigations because you have offenders who were out committing murders and sexual assaults back in the 60s, the 70s, and the 80s, well before we had DNA legislation, well before we had a DNA database. And so many of these offenders are largely unaccounted for in the national and state DNA databases. Lindsay, can I ask you a question as an investigator, specifically too with what we were seeing with this case yesterday, is the value of the work that you guys are doing are able to provide answers to these families. Speak to me as someone who has talked to the families of victims or victims themselves. When a case is this old, five decades old, in a lot of instances, there might not be family members around still. and I could understand why community members might say, okay, well, you know, it's nice that there's been closure, but who does it really impact? Can you talk to me about how important it is to continue investigating these cases, even when, you know, as you mentioned, some of these cases happened in the 60s and 70s before this technology even existed, why it is still important to keep them at the forefront and to continue investigating to find answers? Yeah, great question. I believe in momentum. and so I think it's so important for family members of victims to know that law enforcement is still out there working, still trying to use new technology, still going back and revisiting cases that may be decades old. So regardless of whether or not the offender is dead and can't be prosecuted, whether or not there are still living relatives, I think it's just important for our community to understand that law enforcement is still working to keep public safety and law and order. And by solving cold cases, connecting the dots, one case that's solved with DNA may link to several other cases. So you just never really know where the journey will take you as an investigator. But these cold cases, they're not cold to the people that care about them. They're not ever forgotten about by the family members. And Lindsay, I want to ask you too, you just released a book a couple of years ago, In My DNA, the recipient of several different awards. Tell me about this process. Tell me about that story. Tell me what it was for you that you wanted to get out there and what people can find out if they do pick up a copy of your book, In My DNA. Sure. So the book is a collection of cases that I investigated over my career as a detective with Tacoma PD. And the cases that I chose to write about in the book are primarily sexual assault and homicide cases. A lot of them involve DNA, as you could probably guess by the title. And there is one story in particular that is threaded throughout the book, and that is the investigation of the murder of Jennifer Bastian from 1986. And that was a case that really impacted me when I was a child, as did Michelle Welch's case from 1986. And so those cases are discussed throughout the book as well. And both of those cases that you just referenced are the ones that are the namesake of the law that you worked to help get passed in the state in 2019. I want to ask you, as you worked in law enforcement for more than two decades, as you saw the evolution of DNA, with your connection still to law enforcement today where does it stand now with the the resources that these investigators have at their fingertips versus where it was when you were there and what more do you see um in the horizon oh the technology is changing i would say almost yearly uh it's pretty amazing so even cases that i think back on now that i worked on as a cold case investigator now i'm thinking you know what there's actually potential to do something with that case now that there, you know, there wasn't potential back then. I mean, the ability to get a full STR DNA profile from a rootless hair was, you know, basically something that didn't exist, that possibility didn't exist. And now it does. So it's always changing. And I just would say that for the investigators and for the family members and for living victims, don't give up hope you know because the new technology is probably just around the corner Lindsey the last thing i want to ask is um if you don't mind sharing where folks can find out more about you as well as pick up a copy of your book sure so you can go to my website it's just lindseywade.org and my book is available on amazon and pretty much anywhere you can buy books it's available yeah lindsey i do appreciate you taking some time to talk to us today as well as the work that you did over the years to help provide the resources that investigators here in our state as well as across the country have access to today. Great. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Again, Lindsay Wade, the author of In My DNA, a former Tacoma detective working with the department for two plus decades, working to get laws passed in the state to make DNA resources more available. You hear her mentioning back in 2011 at this point about 15 years ago she started that process of asking questions of if Ted Bundy's DNA was available as she was working cases and we just reported yesterday breaking news as investigators in Utah were able to finally provide closure and close a case a cold case that had been on the books and open for five decades the murder of Melissa Smith out of Utah investigators saying they were able to use DNA to link Smith as well as another victim to Bundy. Two cases solved out of Utah in less than a year all thanks to DNA.