Bad Week for Big 12, How Many Teams Can Win the Title?

Welcome to the show, Others Receiving Votes. I'm Pat Forty, joined by my Sports Illustrated colleagues, Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney. Gentlemen, I'm going to give you a little by-the-numbers countdown. Get us going here today. Five unranked teams beat ranked teams Saturday. Four field stormings at Cincinnati, at Central Florida, at Wisconsin, at South Carolina. You could add a fifth from Thursday night at App State. Three unbeaten teams left in the entire country. We're still in October. We only have three. UCLA, Utah, Miami. Two one-loss teams left in the SEC. Forget undefeated teams. There's only two one-loss teams left in the SEC. One hot mess of a season, and we get to talk about it. So this is awesome. Another spectacular day in college football. fun drama stupidity everywhere uh it was great and it did make me think as i was watching all these field storms guys does two lost cincinnati two lost wisconsin central florida south carolina do they need the hope of a 24 team playoff to have a good time on a saturday or were they having a pretty good time as it was you win a big regular season game that means something and does damage to another team's playoff chances, and you go storm the field, and you're partying like mad people all day and all night. I left. I stayed late at Cincinnati. I was there. It was a noon kickoff. They win. They storm the field. I stayed because I wanted to watch the end of the utter fiasco between BYU and Central Florida, and by the time I left, it's like 7 30. The game's been over for four hours that campus was still going crazy now maybe because it's almost Halloween and it was a nice night that would be the result anyway but I have to think winning that game put a little extra juice into things and I will say you don't have to hold out this thin reed of hope we might actually be pretty good because we could be the number 24 team in a 24 team playoff to have an enjoyable regular season that's today's stump speech today's lament about where we're headed but uh generally speaking guys your first just reactions on the weekend that we saw Kevin I mean it was the perfect example of it's never easy and never fun to go on the road in college football right Texas Tech Cincinnati great example BYU versus UCF great example Tennessee at South Carolina great example there's more I'm missing right at the end of the day uh that that was that was a week of trap lines from Las Vegas telling you man only seven really you sure BYU's only seven point favorites against UCF I don't know that there's a reason why because and it's partially because of those atmospheres that you spoke about I mean it was electric throughout college football there were some insane environments that lifted I thought lifted results in a lot of cases but um it was the latest example of the parity we're experiencing um I know that is a boring cliche to bring up on a college football podcast these days but uh it does increasingly feel like the gap in every conference right um whether that's you know and and we can debate individual conference of strength but the gap between the top of the middle of the SEC the top of the middle of the Big 12 the top of the middle of the Big 10 I'm not sure it exists right now and And who's going to find a way to win enough close ones to put themselves in this playoff conversation will be a fun one to watch in November. But I think we got reminded yesterday of the weaknesses and flaws of some teams that were riding pretty high coming in. Yeah, I mean, it's almost like there's a group of 18 to 24 year olds whose emotions swing wildly from weekend to weekend. And that's what we base this sport on. And I think, you know, the last two weeks, I mean, this this might be two of the best weeks the sports ever had. you know just in terms of everything going on you know like all packed into two Saturdays and in particular and you can throw in some of those midweek games you know like the James Madison upset as well it was uh you know crazy in terms of yes the college ball race and i do think there is an element to your point Pat that you know what as much as we like winning as much as we celebrate you know success man giving it to another team and seeing them fail that almost is just as good as winning you know and i think a lot of fan bases kind of look at that way especially in a 12-team era when you can deal that loss you know and not only win but deal that loss to somebody else you know i think that does um kind of enhance some of the results and does add to the fervor from some of these fan bases in terms of you know what they were able to accomplish this weekend and um you know there was a lot that happened but uh man it was it was a wild and chaotic weekend and uh i can't wait to get through it all with with you guys because there was a lot oh and then we we were in two of those field storms Pat so uh there's plenty to definitely to get to yeah uh i'm gonna further extend my point for a minute Central Florida's lost three games this year they're not going to the playoff South Carolina's lost three games it would be an utter miracle if they make the playoff Cincinnati not going to the playoff Wisconsin almost assuredly not going to the playoff but yes to to get those wins and to have the wins mean something The Texas Tech-Cincinnati thing had some extra payload, thanks to Brendan Sorsby. But to deal that blow, as Brian indicated, was juicy and enjoyable. And we're still trying to, you know, as these conferences have been thrown together, and the Big 12 probably more than any of them, they're still trying to form rivalries and get a body of work between two schools that makes them dislike each other. I think Cincinnati and Texas Tech are getting well down the road on that, so good for them. South Carolina-Tennessee, that's an old SEC East division rivalry, and it means a lot for one side to win that game, especially South Carolina and especially the season it had had. So these are things that are products of the current system that I think would certainly be diminished or devalued. I mean, Texas Tech came off the field like, oh, my God, we might have ruined our season. In the 2014 playoff, they're like, eh, that was bad, but we'll be okay. We go 11-1, we're fine. We go 10-2, we're probably fine. So it's just going to be a different deal. Kevin, interesting, you mentioned the perils of going on the road. But, man, this year had been the home field advantage had really been diminished in conference play up until Saturday. It was maybe the reminder that, no, it does still matter. The Big Ten, the road teams were 19 and 13. The SEC was 16 and 6. So it had been one more marker in a really weird season that even in unpredictability got back to more towards what we're used to, which is those crazy home environments helping a team win. Let's touch briefly on the Big 12, which really came into the week. We were all talking, oh, Big 12 looks great. They've got three undefeated teams. They could have three or four playoff teams. Well, they're down to one undefeated team now, Utah, which beat Houston. But Texas Tech losing and losing bad and not having a good non-conference win, although beating Oregon State, more respectable than we thought. BYU losing the way that all happened, and we'll get into that. My God. But that loss is not as bad, even though Central Florida is not very good. But, Brian, what do you think the damage was done there to the Big 12 from a playoff perspective? Yeah, I'm just, you know, picturing, you know, Brett Urmark. And I saw him at the BYU Notre Dame game last week. And, you know, he was, you know, jubilant and excited. And it was probably one of the best weekends in the Big 12 under his tenure in terms of on-field results. And you had all these undefeated teams and game days visiting, you know, both two campuses back to back there in Salt Lake and Provo. And then, boom, you know, reality hits them in the face. And it was it was a disastrous weekend for the Big 12. And you just look at the paths, you know, just the ability to for these teams to get top 25 wins is just not there like it is in the SEC or the Big 10. And I think that's going to kind of end up biting them. You know, I think there's a real possibility out there that, you know, not only is this a one-bid league, given some of the results in the SEC, but, you know, the results this weekend contributed to that, you know, in terms of BYU falling. I think Texas Tech was a huge one, just because of the way the schedules are made. You know, like, you felt like going into the, coming out of last weekend, you kind of felt, oh, man, maybe the Big 12 did themselves a favor in terms of how they arranged the home road splits, in terms of how, you know, Texas Tech didn't really end up playing anybody. in terms of the other top undefeated teams in BYU and in Utah until potentially making it to Arlington. All right, well, now that looks like, oh, that's actually a big mistake. And you look at the Big 12, I think it's going to be some real tough – we're going to circle the Holy War for sure in terms of being key to potentially getting multiple bids because if BYU loses that game at Utah and then Utah suffers another loss, I mean, you're definitely looking at a potential one bid league even though i think overall the caliber of play in the big 12 is actually pretty good you know i think arizona is a good team right now uh you got uh certainly uh you see the kind of middle class of the league the UCFs uh you know i think even west virginia um you know has taken a step forward this year um you know really i think the overall level of play in the big 12 is much better than it was last year but um in terms of those playoff chances man it really was a a tough weekend for the league um given the number of losses and who it was to by a lot of those undefeated teams. Yeah, you were going to have to walk a tightrope, right? And for half the season they did, and then everybody fell off the tightrope this week, unfortunately. I don't think it's over in terms of multiple bid Big 12, but there's a lot of fascinating things that come into play here. I am sort of rooting for Utah to win the Holy War and Notre Dame to lose to Miami. And then we have 10-2 BYU and 10-2 Notre Dame, and we can do the exact same thing we did last year. That would be very entertaining to go through. so um yeah that scenario is definitely in a lot of people's minds right now it's very it's very much on the table at this point with the way that these teams have looked but um yeah look i think the question with the strong top of the big 12 was who's really playoff caliber uh and who's just pretty good and i do think to an extent we've probably separated like i think BYU's a playoff caliber football team they have a win that proves that i don't think Texas Tech has shown anything that proves they're playoff caliber football team right i talked last week that their offense has been improved that fell apart um they were really bad yesterday against Cincinnati um you know i think Utah has shown some i thought the second half yesterday uh for those that were up watching it at the very late hour that it was was very impressive from Utah uh it ebbed and flowed but like when their offense is good there's not a quarterback other than Trinidad Chambliss that can like zip the ball into windows out of nothing the way that Devin Dampier did yesterday He was fun to watch in the second half, and that building was terrific. But, yeah, I think you come out of this weekend in the Big 12 feeling like Utah and BYU are the two playoff-caliber football teams in the league, and you, I guess, then hope that Utah loses to BYU and they have two one-loss teams and they both make it. I think that's the easiest path, but I don't know. If Texas Tech keeps winning, maybe they get back in there. There's a path, but it definitely got a lot more narrow. And, yeah, if you're Brett Yarmark, you're not thrilled about that, especially in a week where uh you kind of have the spotlight to an extent it was not the greatest schedule for either the Big Ten or the SEC this weekend uh there was an opportunity to make a statement for your big brands and i mean i guess you made a different statement that you've got some parity but knowing how the narratives work i don't think that's going to land quite as well as it would in the SEC or the Big Ten yeah yeah parity parity is a great argument if you're in the SEC it's not as great an argument if you're in the Big 12 uh whether that's what it should be or not that's the facts and so I yeah it was a damaging weekend for them you know the BYU loss we'll talk about the game in a second but just you know that was that was a classic hangover game from a team that put everything on the line to beat Notre Dame did it in very dramatic fashion flew across the country like the setup was there for that the Texas Tech Cincinnati game that was just a beatdown that was a team that had full system failures I wrote about uh in a game that Cody Campbell predicted Cody Campbell of course the billionaire booster slash president of the trustees slash loudmouth of Lubbock uh predicted on a documentary during the offseason that ended up weaving in the Brendan Sorsby business who of course had been at Cincinnati transferred to Texas Tech broke a contract to do it, got sued, wound up with a gambling, in the middle of a gambling scandal due to gambling addiction, is no longer playing college football Texas Tech went to the mat to try to make him, to get him to play. That didn't happen. But Campbell on this documentary said, you know, it could have been handled better, couldn't have, didn't need to be handled so publicly. But the retribution will come when we're up 40 and throwing the ball on Cincinnati in the fourth quarter. oops closer to down 40 than up 40 Cody so that was not good and the people in Cincinnati were absolutely loving that and that's the one problem with Texas Tech look they've improved the program and they put the money in to do it they've got good players but the the mouthiness this the braggadocio that has come with it without having yet done enough to be insufferable okay you went to the playoff last year, you got smoked Right now, you're probably not going to the playoff. We'll see if that changes. I would tone it down until you actually win something of consequence. Winning the Big 12, great, great. But if you aspire to be what Texas and Alabama and Georgia and Ohio State and Michigan are, go do it first and talk about it later. Anyway, that was such a bad performance by Texas Tech. Three turnovers, 13 penalties for 85 yards, and they had two holding calls that were declined they just didn't they they really they barely showed up and then they fell apart late in the in the first half and it was it was over at that point and Joey McGuire was like full of self-loathing in the postgame press conference it was actually it was really good there was no chippiness no defensiveness it was basically like we're terrible go ahead and pile on us just just tell us how bad we are we know it uh and he had Kirby Hocutt, the AD, and And Lawrence Schovanic, the president, sitting in the back of the room during the press conference, and everybody looked like, whoa, this is really bad. Maybe they'd already gotten the text from Cody saying they're all fired. I don't know. But that was brutal for the Big 12. The BYU loss, we'll see how punishing that is. Keep an eye on Arizona. I really like what Arizona has done, sitting there with one loss so far, and it's to BYU. Good program. But it's going to be really fascinating to watch the Big 12 shake out just to see who gets to Arlington and then what their records are and whether there's going to be a shot for more than one bid there. Another place where the chaos continues to reign in the SEC, as I said, there's two one-loss teams left. It's Georgia and Kentucky, which is ridiculous. Like preposterous that Kentucky is 7-1, 5-1 in the league, 3-0 on the road in the league and has this opportunity in front of them first year Will Stein and then he and Bob Chesney are like the same guy in different places it's amazing really what they're doing at the same time because there's one undefeated team in the Big Ten and that's UCLA Kentucky fell behind 10-0 then just came back and dominated Vanderbilt which you would expect but the serial knocking off of each other is really it's it's making it even more difficult to figure out who the heck should get into the uh to the playoff or even SEC championship game we've got this uh Kentucky and Georgia with one loss here's your two loss roster Alabama Florida Mississippi LSU Tennessee Missouri Texas so those all those teams all have two losses how you figure that out we've tried that exercise so far on this show it has not been easy i think it's getting harder um like so my question to you guys looking at everything in this parity driven i don't care if it's a boring podcast topic it's true parity is here like it's maybe almost never been here how many teams can win a national championship what do you guys see how many would you would you name it's hard because like the teams that we've mentioned that are riding high like i bob chesney's done an unbelievable job especially in a Dillingham era the bruins are not winning the national championship feel free to clip me if I'm wrong in a few months I will surrender to my Bruin overlords they're not winning a national championship Kentucky Will Stein yes that team is that team is playing outstanding football they're not winning a national championship so I think you go back to the teams that have we've trusted the most even if they had a slip up like a Georgia I feel good about Georgia right now I I feel uh I feel really good about Miami I feel good about Notre Dame I think I feel good about Ohio State but I don't know the quarterback yet so uh I mean you fall out of teams you really love very quickly right like do you trust Indiana with a national championship right now I don't know that you cannot because of Sig but their offense has some serious work to do based on the last couple of weeks so you want to trim the field down really narrow and I think that's where I lean right now is that it's a very small group at the top with with Miami Georgia uh Ohio State if quarterback is in a disaster uh Indiana and Notre Dame that's like that's the group I feel good about but if you told me you wanted to widen it to a big group because anyone can beat anyone and given that I wouldn't hate you for it yeah I'm kind of right there with you um you know I I think I'm a little more skeptical of Ohio State at this point and uh because of the quarterback situation and i mean that was always going to be a case where you know what they probably were not overall as good as they were last year or even the year before but they had the talent they had Jeremiah Smith that you could just kind of spam you know game after game and just keep throwing it to him and so you could you could conceivably see them winning a national title that way in terms of Jeremiah Smith just carrying them you know over the finish line especially given some of the potential matchups they would have faced in the playoff but man the quarterback injury to Julian Day I think that does kind of change their ultimate ceiling, you know, regardless of how, you know, whoever it is going to be taking those snaps long term is going to end up playing. Like, I think that's it's definitely a limiter for Ryan Day's company moving forward. So they're out. You know, I think Georgia is in that group. I think BYU is in that group. I think Miami is in that group. Notre Dame is in that group. But, you know, beyond that, like, could you see Utah maybe making the national title game? Like, I'm not saying that's out of the question, but to see them actually holding that trophy up in Las Vegas, I think just given the nature of how they play, you know, this is going to be a lot of close games and a lot of coin flips. Like, man, I just don't know if you can kind of live with that. At some point, you do need to kind of put some distance between yourself. I think Kentucky is the one I'm most curious about, you know, and I think they have a stretch coming up. They got a bye coming up, Tennessee and Florida coming up. That's going to determine for me are the Wildcats for real in terms of a real threat, not only to win the SEC, which is crazy to think about in general, but to say they're a national title contender in year one under Will Stein. I think that's the stretch where I'm circling and saying, all right, this is how we're going to kind of prove whether this is kind of a mirage, whether what we're seeing in terms of the consistent play, in terms of what we're getting out of Kenny Minshew, in terms of what we're getting out of that run game, maybe that's actually something that you can rely on for three or four games in the playoff. I think that's going to be where that's an elevator or, you know, one that's going to sink the Wildcats. But it's a smaller group than I think we kind of anticipated being, you know, maybe even last week. Definitely. Shrinks by the week. That's the problem. Like, who is truly trustworthy right now? I'm going to say, sure, Miami, absolutely. Georgia, yes. Notre Dame, I think so. after that I you guys mentioned Indiana's they're they have found ways to win and they they are a you know size 12 foot width away from being undefeated on a play they should have been able to make but boy oh boy they are struggling offensively UCLA I love it Utah I love it I just and maybe this is my fault from an optics standpoint of like can I see them holding up a trophy and is it hard because i'm just not used to seeing them hold up a trophy or is there something really there same with kentucky kentucky's plus 14 turnover margin plus 13 18 takeaways only five giveaways that's that's good stuff that's that's indiana last year kind of level turnover margin right there and that plus quarterback play plus a coach that sure seems to know what he's doing is a pretty nice recipe as well. So I'm going to say there's like maybe five. And Kevin, I think as you said, we can say there's like three or we can say there's 14. It is either a real small pool or you just start looking and saying, well, all these teams have a shot. And that's, I guess, kind of the beauty of it all. But the problem with the Big Ten teams is quarterback, right? Ohio State, we don't know. We got to see them on the field without Julian saying, and then learn something. UCLA, hats off to them making it happen with Ty Dieffenbach, but is that sustainable? Is that a full season, big game, quarterback situation where you can absolutely make it work? I mean, he's been good so far. You know, not great, but good, good enough. in relief against Oregon and then as the starter against Wisconsin and Michigan State where the defense has pretty well carried the day for them and then Indiana boy the Josh Hoover thing is is scary at this point if you're there like his confidence appears to be severely shaken he's throwing the ball high he's you know he's just not been accurate on he's got I think the best receiver tandem in the country and they're throwing it like like they barely know what they're doing. Eight out of 18, 81 yards, first interception of the season against Michigan. So the quarterbacks in the Big Ten, that's the big X factor there. So I will say anywhere, three to 100 teams can win the national title. There's your declaration. I would like to talk about, speaking of like, I don't know what the heck happened, the BYU-UCF game. That was the strangest thing I've seen in quite some time even in a sport that generates strange every week but the end of the game UCF is has played its guts out they're playing great kudos to Scott Frost for having his team ready and having them perform at a really high level but what Frost did on fourth and goal from the one with like a minute left there might have been a little bit more I'm trying going to look it up right now, to go for the touchdown in a tie game instead of taking the lead, I found to be absolutely preposterous. It ended up working out kind of, at least by way of winning the game. It didn't cost them the game, but it just made no sense. And I think you're seeing a lot of coaches that, again, they hate to kick, right? It always sounds better and you look like you're more of a gusto laden guy if you go for everything try to win the game take the lead with a minute left i i just don't think that that's a a terribly avant-garde situation to think that way but they certainly did not um and then all hell breaks loose at the end of regulation and we got the kicker out there and the kick gets blocked and the kicker gets the ball and then gets his helmet torn off in part because he didn't have his chin strap buckled i was watching before they brought him out when they brought him out and i said to somebody else in the press box cincinnati i said dude put your chin strap on it's like in front of his mouth so like what are you doing it sure looks like a penalty when they rip your helmet off because your helmet isn't all the way on uh and then they go to ot and and cincinnati i'm sorry central florida gets it done there but did you guys see that what was your reaction do you disagree with me on frost going for the touchdown instead of the field goal so i disagree on the the late game i i have my own issues with how Scott Frost managed like the i thought the entire like run out the kicker the extra five seconds we're gonna like confusion we spiked the ball when the clock stopped i mean that was incredible there was a lot of like mishaps there but i actually thought that was the right call and i think it played out exactly how you hope it does if you don't score right ideally you score the touchdown you put immense pressure on Bear Bachmeyer to go march you 75 yards to win the game and tie the game if you don't score you're so backed up that the first few plays of the series are clock management and get out of our own end zone to punt and we get the ball back so everything worked out the way it should have for UCF in that spot you had a chance to go massively increase your chance to win the game and then once you didn't do that because you didn't get the fourth down then you just have to get a stop which they're backed up so much that they're not going to play aggressively so then we turn around we get the ball back with good field position better if their punter would have caught the dang ball which is its own problem in college football right now we all have our own like uh our own thing we just can't get over some people it's kicking i can't get over the punt returners not catching the football especially in key spots they lost like 10 seconds of time and like 10 yards of field position it was it was so asinine i was dying um but that being said like they had to go chance they had a chance to go kick and win the game in regulation and then if not they still had overtime versus you kick the field goal maybe you guys score a touchdown maybe they just play for three and they go to overtime but it's a lot more comfortable to go try to do that job so i i had no issue with the go-forward spot i know it's aggressive i know that leading the game matters i i thought it worked out okay i thought that was the way you wanted to go um but i mean that game the end of that game i mean again ucf wins the game you never contribute you never attribute to one play but like the roughing the kicker call in overtime was horrific like i do not know how you come up with roughing the kicker if you if you wanted running into the kicker i think it would still be wrong but i would understand you got there roughing the kicker the guys i don't understand he can do the plant leg thing when both of his legs are already on the ground we can't say it's the plant leg so that was ridiculous and then i thought there were two missed pass interference calls on byu and when byu receivers were getting hammered by ucf guys on that final drive in the end zone so i don't really know what to make of it but i mean it was a perfect college football chaos does anyone want to win this game does anyone want to lose this game uh but big picture i think that the takeaway is that if you can find a way to move the ball on BYU which is not easy to do but if you can do it there offense is not overwhelmingly talented enough to kind of wipe you off the field and so you're going to have to BYU is going to have to play games on their terms they did a great job in of forcing that game onto their terms and i thought that we ended up with the opposite at UCF where that game was really never in their hands and it was a constant chase and BYU in a chase situation especially without LJ Martin is not where they want to be and they're very vulnerable when that happens and again I don't think it changes that BYU is a very good probably not truly elite football team I think your takeaway should have been that after Notre Dame still but maybe maybe everyone was a bit of a prisoner of the moment huge win for UCF how we got there i'm just throwing my hands up and saying yeah college football i guess well and and you know Terry McCarley was the NBC rules analyst was on on uh on afterwards and on social media saying hey there shouldn't have been a 10 second runoff so i'm thinking can we can the Big 12 have like an officiating seminar this week like just get on a zoom here's how here how here's how to run an in-game scenario like please guys like can we get it right where we don't have to have statements issued by the conference at this point or uh issues of rules analysts calling out uh you know the rest of the Big 12 officiating like can we can we please get to that place um you know by next weekend uh that was kind of my initial thoughts and i was screaming in the press box to uh for Scott Frost to kick the field goal uh you know i i understand being tough and sending a message and trying to think all right this is one of those breakthrough uh wins where we we can really you know not only pull the upset and get the field storming and all that but we we can show the country who we are and um you know i mean it was the first ever uh top five win in school history so you understood like all right maybe maybe we have that that momentum and we want to get it but kick kick the field goal like know know who you are playing i think that that's got to be a factor like you you want to put that on Bear Bachmeier shoulders like to not only go 75 yards but like even if they get into a field position to get it get a game tying field goal right college kickers man like you especially from distance this this year like in in those conditions uh in orlando where it seemed like, you know, half the game was played under a monsoon. Like, I mean, know the situation, know the distance, know who you're playing. Like, I think that would have been asking a lot of BYU to kind of march down the field to either get a game-tying score or go ahead. So I felt like I was just, you know, losing my mind in terms of Scott Frost going for it. I understand the thinking behind it. Kevin, you kind of laid that out. But, like, I was definitely team kick the field goal. And then that just kind of led to all the chaos that transpired afterwards. And it was a weird kind of scene there for Scott, you know, after, you know, they're kind of interviewing him and he's surrounded by all these fans. He was kind of like very nonchalant about everything, you know, in terms of the postgame interview, like he almost expected it, which maybe that's the inner confidence. But anybody who's ever seen Scott Frost's play, you know, from from Nebraska and, you know, beyond, you know, understood that that was not a straightforward victory by any stretch of the imagination there for UCF. yeah the spike like the spikes and the throw out of bounds were like the and that was have your quarterback prepared when he goes out on the field and the quarterback is sitting there motioning like this spike it spike it and apparently the the response from the sideline was yes and so they killed one second off the clock with the first one not really ideal throw the second one out of bounds and then third down bring on the kicker and that's when all hell broke loose but Yeah, so we have a majority decision, 2-1 against Sweeney. Sorry, buddy. That's all right. But I understand the thinking behind it. But everything Brian said, I agree with. Take the lead, put the pressure on them. You could have had a 19-yard kick to take the lead. You ended up with a 40-how-many-yard-long kick that got blocked. 45-yard kick. you had to and you had to move the ball to get there yes not fielding the punt was bad but you're on your own 31 to start you could have been on there one kicking you're starting this on your own 31 and you've got to move it like 30 yards I would say against again a not overwhelmingly offensively talented team put the pressure on them at the end of the game but anyway UCF wins wins anyway scott frost uh doesn't get fired on social media dave doran got fired for real at north carolina state as losing to stanford has become a fireable offense last year it was Justin Wilcox this year it's Dave Doeren, NC State, they lost on Friday it was a Friday night I think um in Palo Alto yeah yeah with uh great uniform look from Stanford The All-Reds, the All-Cardinal. It was really good. And they played well. Davis Warren's actually having a good season for them. But still, losing to them is bad. It'll cost a job. Dave Doeren, 14 years on the job. Really did a good job at NC State in the big picture. Made them competitive in the ACC way more often than not. Won more games than he lost. The problem, you know, they hit no high notes. They never made an ACC championship game. They were never a factor to make a playoff, any of that sort of thing. But Doran goes down. Brian, you wrote a – first of all, your thoughts on Doeren, but you also – you wrote a successor list. Are we really going to have Philip Rivers as the coach there? Tell us about it. Yeah, you know, I wrote earlier this week, you know, well before the Stanford game. I was like, you know, keep an eye out on this potentially happening. You know, Philip Rivers, he's close with some donors. Like, I mean, one of NC State's biggest donors happened to post a picture of him in a private plane with Philip Rivers this week. um you know so just fyi on that uh so yeah i mean this is something that you know it was probably surprising a little bit in terms of timing um you know like i i got to the Carter-Finley press box and you know my phone immediately buzzed and i was like all right well what's happening and obviously the the announcement came there for NC State but like uh you know i am i am hopeful that you know NC State fans will appreciate the Dave Doeren era like he'll be invited back sometime you know in in in the future he's the you know winning best coach in school history like at some point there will be some appreciation for him and what he did but yeah i mean this was um you know a case of just never getting over the hump and um you know that that frankly was his entire tenure there like yes there were a lot of solid good years you know like where you won some quality football games but um you know like even even this year the schedule just set up perfectly for them to go on a run you had a quarterback back in CJ Bailey he said all right he can take that next leap and just it never all came together uh all at once and um you know i think that they definitely had some conversations about Dave's tenure you know last at the end of last season chose to bring him back thought all right this is actually you know we can kind of reset a little bit he would have been going into i guess three years left on his on his contract and said all right maybe this is more of a we're going to determine where we're at and um you know i think after that loss in Stanford where you know you felt like the rug was pulled out from under you against a team that is firmly rebuilding with a new head coach um even though it was a cross-country travel like that was that was going to be rock bottom and so uh you know the decision was certainly made by Boo Corrigan to uh to ultimately in the in the tenure there um and you can understand trying to get a jump on this market because you know i think you talk with some who else comes open whether it's you know C Florida State some of the other kind of big big name jobs that could end up you know kind of moving the market a little bit more this is actually a really good job it's in a winnable league um you look at the the resources there that they can have i think they can fundraise off off of this quite a bit in terms of the roster resources that they can devote i think it's it's a state of flux there in the ACC to where you say there's a lot of winnable games no matter what schedule we get dealt with yeah we're going to be at a disadvantage against Miami but everybody else in the league man there's there's a lot of winnable games out there and you know in a 2014 playoff era let's face it you know what you go 10 and 2 9 and 3 against a schedule like that you're going to be in the playoff and you're going to be maybe even hosting a game there in Raleigh. So I think there's, you know, a lot of optimism about the program's future going forward. And yeah, I think, you know, yes, you, you would say, you know, Jason Eck, you know, is tailor-made for a job like this. You know, there, there's a lot of, you know, quality sitting head coaches, even including one down the road in Tobacco Road and Jake Dicker, that would be appealing for this job. But I think there's going to be some real conversations in terms of, Hey, Philip Rivers, not only are you a beloved alum, he would get the donors to open up those checkbooks. He'd get the fan base fired up around him. And, you know, I think as a head coach, you know, we'll see what ultimately he is there and what his staff is going to look like. But, man, that seems like a situation where you could say, all right, in terms of maybe resetting the program a little bit, we really couldn't go wrong with this. And so I think that there's going to be a lot of internal debate in terms of, you know, whether this ultimately ends up happening. But I think that the vibes there are strong to potentially go with with Mr. Rivers. And look, it doesn't hurt that his son is a four star quarterback that's also committed to the program. So he's he's an intimately aware and familiar of both what it takes to succeed there and also what kind of the issues there are in the program. So fascinating situation there in Raleigh. And I can't can't wait to see see what really plays out over these next couple of weeks, because it wouldn't surprise me if they go for the straightforward option or they go out of left field. You know, that could be kind of Boogorg's demo at this point. yeah i think this will be fascinating from the standpoint that my initial reaction whenever i hear let's bring back the celebrity uh former player guy who's tied to all the boosters is it's not a good sign that that's what it takes to get your boosters excited um if i'm if i'm if i'm Boog again like i i want the same level of energy towards hiring jason eck as there would be to hiring philip rivers in terms of like the big dollar people right i understand that like the average fan might see more excitement in the legendary former player maybe they'll buy more tickets or they'll buy season tickets they wouldn't have before like i get that but those are not the people you make decisions based on you make decisions based on people are going to write you know two five ten million dollar checks to help fund this thing and it would concern me if i was nc state that it feels like that's what it's going to take to get that level of investment is hey like we have our guys so if you're gonna if you if you hire them we'll be ready to go and if you don't we're gonna be skeptical like that that is not a place i ever want to be as an AD um but i also think Philip Philip Rivers um for as much as some of the quote-unquote celebrity hires have not worked in the past a key interview for the Bills job last year uh he is very clearly on a trajectory to be a a very real name in coaching whether that's in the NFL or at NC State um it's just such a limited sample size i mean it's it's zero sample size outside of high school football uh and that that would be what makes me want to say hey look this is this is a buyer's market if you're a you know mid power four program right now there's a lot there's a lot of interesting candidates for my level um maybe not a lot of interesting like blue blood level candidates but a lot of guys are like hey if we have real resources we can get something done but my gut feeling would be that if the money wants to go this route that that's the route they're gonna go yeah i i think the money wanted to go the route of Will Wade that worked out really well there um it's fascinating this there certainly it smacks of win the press conference and make the alums feel happy it doesn't necessarily mean you're guaranteed to win uh yeah you know what he's doing a heck of a job at Saint Michael uh Catholic High School in Mobile Alabama uh and he does have his son who is the four-star group there he's got like a hundred kids so he may have more football prospects on the way he could have his own recruiting pipeline if you go you know be like Dion coaching two of his kids at Colorado who knows but yeah I mean I think he might end up being a really good coach it's just you are asking you're taking a complete leap of faith that a guy whose sum total of his coaching experience is five six years I think coaching in high school in Mobile is going to step in now you know all the NFL experience he knows football for sure knows what a good football team looks like feels like all that sort of thing But it's different between being the charismatic quarterback and also being the coach, I think. And, Pat, I think it's important to keep in mind the psyche of NC State fans. They've been beaten down. It seems like every time – they are Charlie Brown with football. It seems like every time they're poised for a breakdown, the rug gets pulled out from under them. And even in basketball, we saw this going through in terms of Will Late leaving the program. Like there was, you know, a lot of existential angst, you know, around Wolfpack fans, you know, and, and, and everything happening in there in Raleigh and that they ended up bringing, you know, Justin Gainey, another alum back, another former player coming back. All right. This is, this is going to win, not only win the press conference, but it's going to make us feel something about the program. That's going to be different from what it was in the past. So I think there's kind of some of those parallels, you know, in football in particular with this hiring, you know, maybe they do land on an experienced head coach. Maybe they do have those conversations with Philip Rivers. And he says, you know what? I actually just kind of want to see my son play football without the pressures of having the coach, you know, like that, that's definitely, you know, a potential out there, but like at this point, like this is a, it's going to be one of those hires. That's going to say, here's what we are as a fan base. We just need something to believe in. And I think that would kind of do it. Yeah. Among teams or the programs that necessary that didn't necessarily win the press conference recently, Indiana, UCLA. I mean, nobody was sitting there saying, we just got the home run. I mean, I think UCLA was probably pretty excited, but Indiana was just like, okay, we got the guy from JMU, we're Indiana, what the heck? Sometimes winning the press conference is overrated. So we'll see where that goes. All right, Brian, the other job that opened was Maryland, Mike Locksley, everybody saw that coming. They got that one done. Who's on the list to replace him? you know whether it's a Jason Heck which i think he would be perfect uh you know like i don't see wisconsin opening up at this point um so i feel like if he wants a Big Ten job you know this is kind of up his up his alley you know in terms of a program that you know let's say the resources are not quite there uh in terms of supporting him he he does more with less and and he's you know creative offensively you know he's gonna get uh you know a lot of butts in the seats Jake Dickert yes i i can understand uh the attraction i i think he he would be holding out a lot more hope for for you know bigger jobs um you know at this point and then it's kind of any number of sitting corner you know pat i know you're you're high on the indiana coordinators this seems like a perfect fit for one of those two guys whether it's mike shanahan um who's more of the offensive mind uh whether it's brian haynes who kind of is that kind of gritty much different for Mike Locksley so maybe there you just kind of want to flip from you know maybe the players coached a little bit more hard-nosed guy um who knows the area from his time at james madison uh you know i think it's understandable that uh that that's kind of the the caliber of a candidate that the Terps are probably going to attract should should maryland be thinking about a parachute guy but like like should shane beamer be looking at maryland and maryland be looking at shane beamer right like yeah he was he was on my list like i mean you talk about resetting your clock you know like for a guy like shane beamer like this this could be one of those opportunities and look he definitely had some success down the road uh is well known in that tidewater area from his time at Virginia Tech, but like, is this a potential reset opportunity? Are those former head coaches out there, the Jimbo Fishers, the Brian Kellys, you know, is this kind of one of those landing spots for them? I think Brian Kelly's probably going to get attached to this job, you know, quite a bit, but, you know, is this the right fit for him? Was it the right fit for the school? I think those questions are still out there. And I think it's something that, basically, Maryland officials are probably still sorting out at this point. Yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, you could have a wide spectrum on that list. The Beamer thing would be interesting. He would do the one thing Loxley hasn't done. He would hit some high notes. He would upset some people. He'd win some games. He might lose a lot, but he might also, you know, he'll have a season. He's one of those guys, as soon as you count him out is when he starts winning. As soon as you start building him up is when he starts losing. It's classic. He defies expectation, I guess you would say. all right guys let's end this with our our weekly heisman and our firings uh kevin who do you want to fire this week i mean we've we've got we've got a good list uh of potential candidates but i thought i thought dave aranda really dug himself a hole yesterday uh losing to kansas that was a game you had to have but beyond that i mean again we talk about our our things we can't understand how college coaches do the play for the 50 yard field goal like what are you doing like dj lagway drives them right into position they run the ball three times i believe in a row to set up a 50 yard field goal shockingly it gets blocked i mean who could have foreseen that perhaps a 50 yard field goal on the road by a college kicker might not go well so that was a really poor poor decision and to me maybe the nail in the coffin for for dave aranda at baylor brian i'm pretty sure i know who you want to fire go ahead yeah i mean you can you can read my column at si.com uh about firing lincoln riley because it is time it is time to have that discussion and i think usc is going to seriously have that discussion um you know it's probably as soon as next week depending on the results there against ohio state because like everything has been set up for lincoln riley to succeed uh you know there at usc it's it's been five years you know the roster is in a better place than it ever has been going back to maybe that uh rose bowl team with sam darnold like i I mean, that's, you know, you look at the talent level, you talk with some scouts like this, this, they have the quarterback, they have everything in place. And man, did it open up like, you know, you play a backup quarterback in Oregon, you would have had a backup quarterback coming in against Ohio State, Indiana, not quite the Indiana that we expected. That seemed like a potentially winnable game. Like if everything opened up and then now you're probably looking at maybe a seven and five season, you know, at this point for the amount of invested like lincoln riley And not only was it the worst output offensively that he had ever had as a head coach to seven points like wisconsin had 200 yards of total offense and they blew him off the field like in the u.s. He just never got into that game. Complete total no show after coming off a bye, no less. You know, and it's not like this is like going into the horseshoe and, you know, like, you know, I do feel like, you know, Camp Randall was like eight or nine thousand seats away from from a potential sellout. You know, maybe that's because of the Brewers game going on, you know, down the road in Milwaukee. But, man, everything was setting up for usc. And then just a completely fall on their face. Yeah, I'm definitely firing lincoln riley. And you can see more why in my column on si.com. Yep, check it out. Unsparing, I would say. I'm not really firing Dan Lanning, but I'm firing him today for this season. What a disaster. Oregon's four and three after starting the year ranked number two. Two and two in the Big Ten loss. to Illinois not a good Illinois team shut out in the second half they scored 10 points and they were shut out in the second half uh Illinois won the game while throwing for 89 yards this was bad very very bad coming off a tumultuous week uh Evan Stewart top receiver got arrested uh there's just their issues with this team clearly clearly they have not put it together the way we're used to seeing a Lanning-Oregon operation. Yeah, the injury to the quarterback, Dante Moore, hurt, but that's why you have Dylan Raiola as the backup. And Raiola was not the problem on Saturday, although they couldn't get him in the end zone. But he threw for 246 yards. That's just, it's a bad team. It's a bad team with a tough schedule that's crumbling amid high expectations. So, Dan Lanning certainly is not losing his job unless phil knight goes crazy and that's not really the way he operates so i think he's okay but man what a bad season for them all right heisman trophy where are you guys going there uh brian you have a heisman trophy winner i'm gonna go with Lenore Sellers who is playing way better as of late and it seems like he's kind of found a groove but three total touchdowns uh that that one you know at the end where he just is you know shows what leg day is all about uh to muscle into the to the the end zone there uh you know just incredible um you know he has carried South Carolina you know it seems like they've got two guys that are you know first round picks on either side of the ball and like they're they're just like turning them loose like you guys are going to go out there and win this game they did against Tennessee and uh you know incredible to see and now you can definitely see not only a path to to a bowl game but um you know maybe uh you know South Carolina going to be a frisky team uh for anybody else to play down the stretch given how well uh you know their quarterback is playing at this point yeah i don't know if there was a play this year that was more impressive physically than what he did there. You watch a lot of college ball, you see some stuff. That was a new one. I'm giving it to Drew Massamaker because I think he actually belongs much more seriously than the Heisman conversation that I think he has been given credit. I mean, this guy is unbelievable night in, night out. Four touchdowns yesterday against Colorado. Their offense puts up 57 points. It's starting to look like North Texas, except Big 12 North Texas, 386 yards. I mean, he has been absolutely incredible to watch. And again, this is an Oklahoma State program that is very much still in rebuild mode, and he is willing them to wins right now. Interesting stretch of schedule ahead. But I think if they get to like a nine and three, I think Drew Massamaker should be in New York because of his impact. I'm not saying he'll win it, but he should be a lot more in the conversation than I think he is right now. All right. I am going off brand here, deep track, but I'm going to two guys from the same game, Rice against Florida Atlantic. Yes. And I don't know how many people were there, probably not many. I don't know how many people watched the game on TV, probably not many. The defenses were probably horrible. But unbelievable individual performances once for one player on each team. Gail Ochoa, backup quarterback for Rice. In two seasons, one and a half seasons of college football, he had rushed for 13 yards total. against Florida Atlantic 12 carries 259 yards four touchdowns all of them longer than 50 yard runs like he just went crazy he tore through the defense they threw the ball he threw he was two for five passing for 80 yards but a touchdown there through a 71 yard touchdown so he's just like mr big play out of nowhere he had not played very much college football i think we have the new running quarterback in this game i like totally blown away by gail ochoa but then on the winning side easton messer receiver scored two touchdowns rushing scored two touchdowns receiving including a 68 yarder and for good measure threw in a touchdown punt return 82 yards so he scores five touchdowns in three different ways him and gail ochoa put on like the i i don't know that was like i don't like jerry rice against barry sanders game out of nowhere in the uh bottom half of the the american athletic conference so you guys you you you you can share uh my my Heisman all yours all right everybody that's the show for this week uh thanks for listening we will have much more to overreact to. Every week from here on out, the stakes keep rising. Stuff will keep happening. We will keep chronicling it. And have a good week. We'll talk to you next Sunday.