Mental health, law enforcement experts analyze Center Line Police arrest

Well, we want to continue the conversation on Tyler Tyson's situation. So we have reached out to clinical psychologist, Dr. Hasti Riveau. Dr. Riveau, how are you? I'm doing okay. How are you? Hey, pretty good. So we shared this video with you. And look, you specialize in dealing with neurodivergent patients, patients who are on the autism spectrum. So first of all, just give us your sense. You saw the story. You saw the video. What did you make of this situation? It was really painful for me to watch the video. because it was so clear for me that the client or the sorry not the client but the individual was having a hard time processing what was happening and responding quickly and fast enough and I know that a traffic stop is stressful for anybody but for people who are neurodivergent that stress makes it so much harder to process many things we're talking language organizing their response and speaking and so you can see somebody who's freezing and struggling to follow instructions that would outside of that situation be able to understand and on the outside it can really look like they're being defiant but they're actually not what are some of the things because i think for me and you know i i don't have any immediate relatives who are neurodivergent or on the spectrum but it wasn't until tyler's mom had told me about his adhd diagnosis uh that i started to see this whole video under a different lens so if someone is is maybe watching this for the first time or seeing the video again and and trying to pick up on things what are some of the things that they should at least pick up on that would clue you in that you know tyler has special needs Well, you know, we don't want, we don't need officers to be on the spot diagnosing people that are pulling over. But the reality is that there's evidence, research done for law enforcement that getting any kind of training on engaging with individuals who are autistic or neurodivergent is actually effective. And there's really strong evidence, research showing that any kind of training we do for officers on de-escalation, so using non-violent forms of engagement with ordinary people, tend to be extremely effective. And so I think the most important thing to recognize is that if somebody is not responding quick enough, it might be because they are needing extra time processing the information, and that individuals who are neurodivergent, under stress, their baseline abilities drop and so that could be movement, their movements might get quicker or slower, being able to hear what you're saying and follow through that will all slow down generally and sometimes they might say something that they actually don't even mean to say, and so when I was watching the video, that's all I could think about is that this kid was clearly in a frightened state and terrified, and unfortunately that was really not taken seriously. Okay, so we're going to come back to that in a minute. We have to get to our law enforcement expert, retired Detroit Police Assistant Chief Steve Dolan. Uh, Mr. Dolan, we appreciate your patience. Uh, thank you for waiting um, you saw the video, I want to get your thoughts on how this was handled by Central Line Police there's questions on both sides. Um, first of all when you make a traffic stop you approach the car the first thing you're supposed to say is, "Excuse me sir or ma'am," do you realize in this particular case you ran a red light? Yes or no? Can please see your license, registration, insurance, as opposed to walk, I'm saying, "Give me your license, registration," insurance," I'm not saying why they were pulled off that's the first thing, that's a problem second thing, I don't like the gun being pulled out on a normal traffic stop unless they thought that this individual or the car he was driving was involved in a felony of some type. It didn't appear there was. It was broad daylight. The next thing that bothered me, the driver, and I didn't know this based on the interviews that he had, ADHD, is that he put his hands up, but he never gave him a license and registration. That makes an officer think, wait a minute, does he have a license and registration, which they found out later he did, but he didn't show it to me. He has a wallet put his hands up his wallet up i thought personally that the officer escalated more than de-escalated situation it's like dude just give me your stuff it's going to be a ticket but no get out of the car give me this stop slow down be nice uh i get and these two white guys and i'm guessing they're from the city from the suburbs you probably haven't either heard of the talk or never given the kids the talk that a lot of people do in minority communities and the police pull you over so this kid got scared kid guy because he's seen another officer with a gun that's understandable to chastise someone saying oh you're afraid of police because they have guns yeah there's a history of unfortunately white police officers taking advantage of minorities and black hispanic whatever pulling a weapon and that's not right so the kid's freaking the guy's freaking out the officer's mad the fto field train officer's got his gun out and the kid doesn't get out of the car he keeps saying he's going to but he doesn't and they grab him and i didn't like to grab him by the lantern i didn't like that they start struggling then they taste it's going south quick and at the very end talk about unprofessional and they didn't realize the body cam was on you're in the back i get it but you don't say hang on to you know the taser prongs for a souvenir unprofessional how's that no yeah no i i appreciate it look the the um the the officer who had his body camera on was a trainee officer what do you hope that he can learn from this situation um if he wants to continue a career in law enforcement i think he needs to learn de-escalation techniques he came on strong i understand that the the motors didn't um you know say oh yeah here's my stuff but we've seen it in the past where they say i'm a CCP holder my gun's on my side and then the individual's been shot by the police or my registration is in the glove never should my brakes in your car and people reach for the glove box and even pull out a weapon or they get shot one or the other so these are the things that are that the officer officer should be aware of and um uses training going on and also remember that your body cam is on the whole time whether you're in the car or not so using profanity showing your anger no it's you're frustrated i don't know his mindset like did the car pull over right away do they have to follow a distance what got him to the point where he he got more angry you know what happened that caused that so a lot of intangibles going on both sides uh yeah it was bad i think it was bad but again and he had ADHD the officer's not gonna know that if he just got not here's my stuff and got out of the car but he kept making excuses you know i was just thinking huh what's he trying to hide the other others were having a gun on the traffic stop nine o'clock in the morning to me uh seemed to have been an overkill i got it uh all right last question i just wanted to ask you we were talking with Charlie Langton on Good Day Today earlier he said you know the always the move is always to de-escalate de-escalate de-escalate uh is there any specific training when it comes to uh motorists or any dealing with anyone who maybe has uh ADHD or is considered neurodivergent um again you don't know his medical prognosis so you're sitting there going okay is this guy trying to hide something from me that's why he's not showing me his ID he's not wanting to get out of the car or does he have a medical issue you know you don't know that especially rookie officers not going to know that and again they want to show their i feel that they're in charge of the situation but de-escalate this situation there's no reason in my mind for it to get to this point if he would have gotten out of the car right away fine and then to pull him by the lanyard and and then fight and then tase him and then he pulled the stuff out it seems like cross line he could have said okay dude listen i understand why you're upset we're not going to shoot you show me your license and registration and if you don't i'm going to i'm gonna have to take you out of the car as opposed to give me it or yanking you out of the car that just escalates the situation you gotta take it down or not that's all all right uh we appreciate it thank you uh mr dolan and uh we will uh let you get back to what you're doing oh can i say one quick thing yes go ahead i'm thinking about it okay i thought the attorney in my opinion crossed the line he said this is a predatory stop at nine o'clock in the morning he's never been the police i don't think so what we know what a predatory stop is and to assume that because two white officers pulled over a black motorist is predatory that's the same as saying a black detroit police officer pulls over some um white motorist coming from uh the Grosse Pointe on jefferson is that predatory no that statement in my mind was inflammatory and it's easy to talk the talk until you walk the walk you ought to watch what you say Thank you.