Joe Robinet WILDERNESS CANOE TRIPPING LECTURE & FAN MEET & GREET at Canoecopia Madison Wisconsin

Alright, right here? How big do you want? I don't want to mess up your boat. Really? That's it. Awesome. Cool man. Very cool. I'm totally stoked man. Don't put that in the water. Should I stand up here or down there? You're in front of the screen. Alright guys, thank you all for coming. I assume some of you watched my YouTube channel? More than good, okay. Canoe Copia has been here. It's been a good experience already. Very similar to Northern Ontario, Canada where I live. So it's pretty cool. Thanks everyone for coming out, for making the trip, to see me, to see the show. I know some people flew and drove from a long place to get here. So it's really awesome. Today we're going to talk about canoe tripping. wilderness canoe tripping from a pack boat if you guys don't know next to me here is a pack boat pack boat is a nimble lightweight solo craft for someone like me we're going to talk about why the benefits uh oh you know what i need a volunteer from the audience do okay please it's perfect where you're sitting too um how do we know how to do i don't know just like down there down there and then when i ask you to can you please just push down there yes all right probably be be able to find it better than I was. Okay, let's get into it. Some of the things we're going to talk about, lightweight gear. This is a lightweight boat. Why am I going to carry a bunch of heavy gear when I have a lightweight boat? This is my mentality. The essentials, what has to come, what are you going to leave at home, food. Food is very important. We all have to eat, right? And out there, eating properly, getting full, getting the nutrients you need is important. If you're busting your butt every day trying to get somewhere, portaging, paddling, and keeping it fun, which is why we're all here, right? This is why we're here. This is what we like to do. How to pack effectively? What has to come? Well, what do you need for comfort and to live out there? You need something to keep you warm. You need something to procure your water for you, right? You need to stay out of the elements. So clothing, shelter, a pot to boil water in, which probably isn't the way to go if you're canoe tripping. A water filter is my preferred method. A pack, my favorite pack, my pack that I like, this isn't going to work, oops, go ahead. My favorite pack that I like to use on, this needs to just because I'm going to be right back. My favorite pack for canoe tripping is this old, dirty beast. This is a MEC Slog. MEC is like the Canadian equivalent of REI. So it's their brand, this is a Slog, 65 or 70 liter, and it's been through the ringer. It's got a flat back on it with a support, and that's really necessary too, This is a Slog deluxe and I have a Slog without back support, it's not a good time. So I'm a small guy, obviously, right? What I can max out on my back is about 30 pounds. And that fits into this, food, all that stuff, relatively easily. I can trip out of this for a week, 10 days, and that's about where I would draw the line because nothing really changes except for your food amount, right? You have all your same gear that you're going to be using throughout your canoe trip but your food, the amount of food, the duration of the time that you're out there will depend on your food. So this is a really good backpack, sometimes I wear a backpacking backpack, which I like because it has external pockets and straps, whereas this one really doesn't. I can put my tripod inside, because filming for me is a necessity, I film everything I do, outdoor wise. So being able to access my tripod easily is very good, when I don't use that backpack where I can slide it on the top, or slide it inside, sorry, I bring a very small tripod that I can fit sideways in the top of my backpack and smash it down on portages. Um Clothing falls into that too. I like to wear and bring lightweight nylon stuff. I don't like shorts. Even in the middle of the summer I don't like shorts because of the exposure to the sun and because of the exposure to bugs. So a very lightweight nylon pair of pants is my go-to. I usually wear, you probably all heard me talk about the Paul Raven. I wear Paul Raven pants. They're a bit heavier duty and I'll wear those but then I'll bring something like this. It's just lightweight little, like, flood wader type pants. Well, so small I can fit my cargo pocket. Very little space, very little room. The option of changing out your pants when you get to camp, like, on a long distance thing is a huge deal. You know what I mean? It's to stay dry, to get dry, to stay, just feel like a person after 30 kilometers. I don't know what it is. I don't know. 30 kilometers of paddling in the bugs and the heat. You know what I'm saying? So, anyways, lightweight. And the shirts are the same way, too. I do prefer a short sleeve shirt as as opposed to a long sleeve. I guess my arms aren't that sensitive. Fishing. Yeah, we'll talk about fishing. The paddle. The paddle. So what I use for my paddle is a Werner Camano. This is a 240, and a 240 is the length, right? So this goes on. It's a two-piece. You can actually, obviously, you guys know this. You can switch it and cant it for different wind situations, so you're not trying to cut through the wind with your blade like this. It's more like this. I've had this paddle or a variation of this paddle for five years and they're going strong. My other one, this is all carbon fiber. My other one had fiberglass blades and now my buddy Doug, I'm sure some of you guys know Doug as well. Yes. Yeah. He's a, he's a rough gentleman and he, uh, he's not, not, he does not treat these things with respect and they're still going strong. That's my point. Paddling a double blade allows me to go distance. It allows me to do rough water. Whereas if I'm in a single blade, you know what I mean? I'm not just personally. I'm not that strong of a canoe paddler. I know this. So me trying to do this for eight hours a day is not going to work. This is where this comes in handy. Paddle is awesome. Paddling it with a double paddle is awesome. And the boat, yeah, the boat's pack 13.6. It's a Swift Adirondack pack 13.6. I'm getting a Cruiser 12.6 soon. And that's a little bit different of a model. It has more of a tumble home. It's more sleek, more of a racing design. Whereas this one, and these come in different sizes. This is a 13 foot 6. There's a 10, there's a 12. I think there's a 14 something in there. 14 something. And depending on the size of you, depending on the duration of your trip, depending on your skill level depending on the amount of gear you're going to bring, that will weigh your decision on what size to get, or even if it's a pack boat at all. Yeah, so some of the things I spoke about already, like very, very fast. One of the things that I was discouraged about, I was actually almost talked out of buying a pack boat before, was the amount of time that it would take when you get to a portage, the amount of time that it would take to set up your boat for portage, right? Because the yoke isn't attached, right? have a carbon fiber yoke right here and this just goes in the front of my boat for my paddle it doesn't matter but then when you get to the portage you have to set up your boat I thought I would show you guys real quick how I do that just to like negate that that thought of it it's too much work it's not worth it so somebody yesterday mentioned this is a downside for me mentioned that asked if I carried an extra paddle and I don't because the problem with the pack boat is that you sit so low and the gunnels are out a bit wide, it would be almost impossible to reach over and paddle like this. So I don't really know how much a single blade, because you're not going to bring an extra double blade. It's just not going to happen. I don't know how much an extra single blade would help. So that is a downside if you do like to bring an extra paddle. Personally, I'm very, very meticulous where I put my paddle. My other one, like I said, was red, so I would stick it up in the mud. It's like a flag to not even show me where my paddle was, but to get back to my boat after like a crazy portage that wasn't marked or anything like that. So I think I will be putting red bands or something along the lines on these paddles just for extra safety. Okay, so we've got a safety kit, right? This is mandatory in the States too? Here? No? No? Yes. All right. In Canada, you have to have this. This is a bail kit. This is a whistle and this is a rope. So get it on the back handle and then it's out of the way and this stays on for the duration of my trip, however long the trip before. This just stays here. I've never had to use it, thank God, and I hope I never will. But it's there, and it's out of the way, and it's not cumbersome. It doesn't really throw the balance off all that much. Like I said, I'll have my paddle all together. I'll have my paddle all together. Dip it in the water. Yeah. So when I go camping, when I'm canoeing, I try to fish. I attempt fishing, and I really enjoy that part of it. When I get to a portage, I don't want to have to break down my rod, put it in my pack, or try to hold it on portage, anything like that. I just stick it underneath the front handle. The top goes on there, and I usually have a rubberized gear tie. I don't have one. I have one of these right now, so that's what we'll use, but it's the same idea. And now, while it may be a little noisy when you're portaging, it's sturdy, it's solid, you don't have to worry about it. And when you get to the end of the portage, if you don't remember to take it off, and you're like out of wrap and you want to fish or whatever, it's just one clip, and it's super easy. Nothing has to be holding it up here. Very easy. I'll normally have a couple GoPros on my boat at all times like this is this is the best one that I have and I Can you move the clamp all around and everything, but I also do have one private backpack that attaches and it stays stationary there So I have all that set up I'll come to the portage and I used to think so this boats a touch different than mine You guys see these two holes the new yokes for this year just screw with these knobs right down into those holes It's very convenient. My boat doesn't have it. It's a little bit older So what I learned, I was told and I was thinking I would have to, every time, unscrew these, tighten it, get it back on, undo it. All you have to do is just push the bolt because the bolt flexes, right? Just push it. Make sure it's somewhere where you want it. Yep. Put this on me. Anyways, you have it tight. I have webbing on the front like a rope. I like to use webbing because it doesn't get as tangled. My fishing hooks don't get as caught in it either. So come to the portage, pop this on just like that quick, grab my rope. I'll usually have my paddle leaning up against a tree or I'll put it in my hand at the same time and this thing just goes up on top. This rope now in front is a little off balance. You can pull it down with tension to guide it, whatever. And the yoke is in the wrong spot right now because it is a removable yoke. Every single time you put it on, I like to put a piece of grippy tape where I'm going to mark my yoke at because then I know balance this boat without even using my hands. And when I need to steer around trees and what not, this is what this rope comes in handy for. Very, very handy. It does the whole trick. Come to the end, pop it off, throw it in the front, literally hop in, start to sit down and I'm good to go. I will, like I said with the paddle, have it leaning up against the tree so that I don't have to reach down after that load is in my hands, on my head, I'm going to reach down and try and grab it, right? Either that or I can pick it up at the same time. Yeah, it's very comfortable for all day paddling conditions for multiple day paddling. You can see on the boat itself, it has a high back seat with a lumbar support. This lumbar moves where you want. There's straps on the seat itself to bring it up tighter, to push it off the slack. Extremely comfortable, especially compared to a traditional canoe seat. I tend to move my pedals on the front of it all the time because I'm switching where my legs go. Like, after paddling, you know, hours in the day, you've got to move a little bit. on a traditional canoe. You're either kneeling, you're sitting back up, what have you. Those pedals in the front where I'm pushing off to get oomph, I can move forward back. Sometimes in a lazy meandering river, I just cross my legs completely and just relax and just paddle up the bottom. It's like a kayak. It's like the best of both worlds. It's like an open top kayak, a convertible kayak with all the space that you can use up, readily available to drop stuff in, not having to open up hatches and try and jam things in a kayak. And it's not really a canoe either it's like some kind of bastardized middle middle thing but it's it's very efficient and I don't understand why like I've gotten flack because it's not a canoe and I call it a canoe you know what I mean understand why you wouldn't just do everything you possibly to make your time outside more enjoyable you know I mean it really does work yeah so this trip the picture that's my first pack boat that's the one that old Dougie has and it's beat up right now this is in in Ontario and this was a very rough trip. This is the first time that I had that boat so I thought that I could load this up to the gills. I actually had a bigger bag than this I borrowed from Doug and it was 115 liters full and I can't carry it. I can't. But I thought because I was 26 pounds that I could, you know, just put some of that weight into my backpack and it would be fine. It's not the case. So really it's still a game of not Not even counting grams, but really just bring the efficient things that you need. Maybe a little luxury here and there, but the lightweight of it does not take over. And that's what leads me to the next thing, identifying what you don't need. How many times have you been on a camping trip in general and pulled out all these things that you never, even when you got home, pulled out all these things that you never even looked at when you were camping. Just had all these ideas. Oh, I'm going to play cards. I'm going to do all this stuff. And it's cool to bring things for entertainment. I get that, especially if you're with someone, but you really need to learn how to not, and will going on a couple trips where you have to carry that stuff for no reason you will learn that and you will not do it again yeah and it's about finding the balance between everything like I gave the example yesterday I wish I had a tough I left I did a last spring I did a 10-day trip where I stayed stationary I fished for my fish for my food was all pike the whole time so bad but I had that was to be very beginning of the year and I had not canoe trips yet and And while I paddled into that site and stayed there, I did not consider that canoe tripping at all. And I really wanted to do a canoe trip. So I loaded up my backpack, a smaller one than this, with 17 pounds total, food, everything. And I don't carry water weight because of my water filter, and I'll go through that later on. But 17 pounds, everything. And because of that, I used this as a shelter. Yeah, it was really bad. So it was June, black flies are still kicking around, but mosquitoes like crazy. This is a half body length shelter, so you tie it up and then you cinch it right here your waist and the idea is in your sleeping bag, feet down, so nothing can get you and from like waist up you're in this so the bugs can get you. It did not work. Eaten alive, horrible sleep and if I would have brought my tent, it would have been a half a pound more weight, okay? That's ridiculous, right? Why wouldn't I just bring a tent? I got it in my head that this is a high-speed, low-drag, no frills, no nonsense canoe trip, and I'm just going to go minimal on everything. I was so hot that night, and I couldn't get out of this sleeping bag. I would have been blown up. But that's what I mean, finding the balance, right? So now I know, and in the same respect, it's cold now. It's wintertime, and when I go camping, I'm going to bring fleece pants for nighttime. You know what I mean? It's those things that you don't want to suffer. Either way, you don't want to suffer because you don't have enough gear. you don't want to suffer because you're carrying too much. Find about it. Things I've learned the hard way, many things, that's one of them for sure. Single portaging. Single portaging is a big deal. As you guys know, as anyone who's ever been on a trip knows, you can't, I keep doing that, I keep doing that. You can't expect to make distance in a day You can't expect to move a lot. If you're walking three times on that portage trail, so you're single carrying, boom, done. If you're double carrying, obviously you're walking there, back, and there again, right? So a two kilometer portage becomes six and that's that's eats up time and energy when if you're just prepared if you do it all properly and right then you can single carry obviously it's not for everyone and I don't know I don't do it all the time either it's it's time dependent it's trip dependent yeah I think I dealt with a lot of this stuff dealing with a camera is kind of a tricky thing in the boat I know everything like I said and I do have the GoPros which are amazing now but they're not a DSLR, they're not a camera camera. So, I have to be very careful when I'm getting in or getting out of the boat, or even in the boat with my camera. Normally it lays next to me, and then when I get out I pack it away, but everybody's different, like I know you guys, not everyone's shooting videos for YouTube, but you're taking pictures, right? You're out there, you want the memories, right? So, the new pack boats have these attachments on them, and you're going to be able to get all these accessories, mounts that you can jack your tripod way up and have your camera have your camera sturdy on there. Not only that, fishing rod holder for trolling on the front. Really, really cool stuff. Gear is essentially, yeah, just like, so I'll show you my water. This is, this kind of falls in line with my, my water bottle. I, when I'm tripping, please turn around, I carry a BeFree, a Katadyn BeFree. Anyone know who's that, know what that is? There you go. It's a soft sided water bottle. I'll pull it out in a minute. It collapses. So all I do is I have my cargo pocket. When we're paddling, I just scoop up the water. I drink. And by the time we get to to a portage, I have to pee, do my thing, put that thing back in my pocket, portage with it, and then I'll chug water again at the next portage. I like not having to carry water with me. It's very heavy, obviously. I'll pull it out. Oh, I dehydrate my own food. And there's a couple of reasons. You guys know what this is? Ursac. It is Ursac. It is a bear bag as well. This is a Kevlar bag. So I was always under the old school thought and practice of hanging my bear, hanging my bear bag, sorry, over a tree, which is normal. When I started tripping in places that don't have deciduous trees that their arms grow, you can't hang 10 feet off and 10 feet down to get away from a bear, there's only black spruce that shoot straight up, or jack pine that are very, very weak. I found out about the Ursac. The Ursac keeps bears from getting your food at a height where they can reach it. So Kevlar strings, everything, and the rope, and then inside there's a, where's my water filter? Smell proof bag, right? So all you do is you tie this up at the bottom of a tree, you tie it in through these little holes here really tight so rodents can't get in there and everything. I actually have a friend who has a video of a bear ripping at this with no luck and leaning and couldn't get into it. So very good quality piece of gear, I would highly recommend that, especially for people tripping in places like woodland caribou, places that don't have big trees and things. I dehydrate my own food like I was starting to say. So if you look at the normal commercial dehydrated food, let alone the ingredients, let alone the nitrates and all the preservatives and things like that which do not agree with me and out on a canoe trip, I don't want to have any problems. That's the size of it. That's the footprint. And of course you can, you know, smash it down and do whatever to it, but it's still that big. And that's one meal. At home, my lovely wife cooks all the time and she makes things, chili, spaghetti, what not. And I'll dehydrate that food when she makes it. So this is legit leftovers. There's nothing special about this at all. And this is a full meal. Look at the size of that compared to that. Lightweight. Stays good. This is chili. This tastes phenomenal. There's meat in this, there's beans in this, everything. She also does the spaghetti and we'll eat the same thing. When we're done eating pasta, I'm not sure if I'm saying the right word, but when we're done eating, I just mix the sauce and the noodles together, throw in the dehydrator and call it good. Very healthy, very cheap. This is 12 bucks. This is 12 bucks. Imagine you're going for seven days and you're eating three of these a day. This is just leftovers. That's why I do that and the health reasons for sure are a huge plus. So you see on the left here, that's a picture of mine. I'd love to bring steak in the woods. I'd love to bring stuff I can grill up, good food, but on a canoe trip it's just not going to happen, you know what I mean? Unless you bring it and eat it the first day kind of thing, but I'm always, always, always weight conscious and space conscious and that's not really good for that. So different times call for different things. I really like to cook good in the bush. Tips and tricks, pour water on that dehydrated spaghetti. Call it good. Foods to avoid. I really like fish when I'm out there and stuff like that. I don't know. What would you avoid? What are we going to avoid? Personally, chocolates and things like that for me. But I think, yeah, you want to make sure that the bulk of your food that you're carrying, that you're physically expending energy to carry is worth it. It's going to give you that energy and that nutrients back. No gummy worms. Favorite snacks Snacks are like nuts, chocolate covered almonds are one of my favourites. Actually M&M peanuts, just there's like quality out there, you've got your candy chocolate nut, you can't really go wrong. But yeah, snacks for calories, stuff like that, chips are really good, actually Pringles, Pringles for like weight are the most calorie dense stuff going. Not very good for you. My favourite dinner recipe is spaghetti, spaghetti, for sure I like the spaghetti a lot, and a steak when I can do it. I caught that though, so it's okay. take my advice for fishing I don't know what I'm doing that's my general consensus although I am learning and those of you who watch the channel will agree right? fish so I've never been I never had anyone show me how to fish I never understood about fishing I didn't know anything about what right lure to use any of that stuff over the course of the past few years I've started to learn a little bit better and better and better my friend Doug and I crossed Algonquin Park from west to east Algonquin's huge Algonquin's enormous like the size of it's big. We crossed it from the west to the east and we caught trout for half of it and we caught bass for the rest of it. My favorite, my biggest tip that I can give anyone, and I'm sure this is really just Charles' play, fishing the rapids. That is honestly the best chance that you have for catching fish. I've caught trout in rapids, I've caught walleye, I've caught pike, I've caught bass. My favorite fish to catch and eat is trout. My favorite My favorite fish of all time to catch is bass. It's just so much fun. And I do eat it as well. Not pike. But so when I'm fishing for food, when I know that I need to get food, I'm trolling. Like that's the bottom line. That's what I'm going to do if there's no rapids around. Because the success rate for me has been very good. A nice big silver spoon. I stop sometimes and let it just fall right to the bottom and go again. That's when I get a lot of hits right on the bottom where we're starting to go again. Yeah, I like fishing. I like fishing. I really like fishing. I hope to learn more about it soon. I'm sure you guys, a lot of you know more about it than I do. The cleaning. So spiky bass, we're referencing pike. You guys call them jacks here? No? Northerns. So when you clean them, they have a Y-bone, right? There's a five fillet method. You can get that Y-bone out. I have a hard time doing it sometimes. You cook that fish, you just pick it out, it's good too. But then smooth will be the bass where like you're just, you know, it's a nice, easy, straightforward fillet and go to town from there. But don't let me discourage you, don't be discouraged on pike, you still get a ton of meat off of it. Even if you fillet it normally and then you take the back strap completely off and that's a nice piece of meat. Favorite ways to cook fish? I have a reflector out here called a Svanfjordian and it's from Sweden. And you put your grill, I put my little grill in there and set it right next to the fire. Fire is here, I just set it on the rocks right here next to it and after about 20 minutes, half an hour, the thing is like coming out of the broiler. It's really, really nice. So we did our woodland caribou trip, flying woodland caribou trip, best trip of my life, most remote, best fishing, just amazing, amazing trip. We caught pike and walleye for eight days, it was a nine day trip, a nine day trip and we knew that there was lake trout, we were told, yeah, you'll get lake trout, no problem, early season and all this. Eight days, our last day we're leaving and it's like, where are the lake trout, you know what I mean? Finally hooked into them, again, trolling with the Len Thompson on the bottom or whatever, got them so elated. the picture, that is probably the happiest I've been in years. Legitimately, it was the first lake trout I ever caught, didn't know anything about it, I was extremely happy. And I beat my fishing buddy who was with me, which made it all better too. But we cooked it in the Svante Frieden reflector oven. And I saved a slice of lemon for nine days in my dirty old pack, put it on there, it was heaven. It was very, very nice. Also, battered with oil, solid, and on a stick over the fire. On a stick over the fire for nostalgic bushcrafty reasons is probably my favorite. You just have Doug cook it. Yeah, that's always good. That way it's not ruined, I can come catch it. Yeah, keeping it fun, you know what I mean? That's the whole thing, that's why we're all here. You guys paid to come here, you know what I mean? This is just to be around people who are into canoeing, to get inspiration from canoeing, to plan your own adventures for canoeing. That all takes money. That's why we want to be here. It's fun. We appreciate it. You know what I mean? You have to remember that when you're out there. Sometimes it's not fun when you're out there. Have you come across that? That's a real thing. You know what I mean? But that's also type B fun, where you can look back on that and say, man, we really did something. So going solo, you learn stuff about yourself. You really slow down. You get to do things when you want, what you want, when you want to do them. I don't want to get up right now. I want to lay in bed for another hour. Cool. I want to have bacon for breakfast instead of hurrying up, eating oatmeal and getting out of here. Cool too. I really like it and I believe, and Kevin Falun has said this many times, I believe that for a solo trip, you need to be out there for like four days minimum, four nights minimum to really feel yourself, to really get in the groove with things, nature. And going in groups, it's the exact opposite of that. It's a camaraderie. It's the adventure, it's the little bit of safety net because someone's there too. There's no right or wrong. There's no better or worse. There's just how you're feeling at that time and what you want to do. But I will say this. Get yourself someone. If you don't know who you're tripping with very well, if you haven't been experienced with them tripping, don't go on a 10-day trip right off the hop. Maybe do a one-nighter. Feel it out. But it's good to introduce people as well. You know what I mean? Don't get me wrong. That's not what I'm saying. It's a... Yeah, just understand what you're talking about. Finding good challenges is a huge part for me. It's probably the main reason that I want to do this. I love beating myself into the ground Portaging being just wrecked at the end of the day, just crashing hard. It's such a rewarding feeling It really is, and then looking back at that footage. Yeah, avoiding repetition. I think everyone wants to do that New spots to explore for me, where I'm headed this year I'm gonna do the Bloodvine River and in Northern Cariboo, that's like maybe a Canadian Heritage River Lots of good fishing opportunities, and my buddy Kyle, I'm sure some of you know who I'm talking about. We haven't been together in a long time in California. I'm really excited to do that. There's going to be lots to do, lots to do this year. I moved north. I live down near Sault Ste. Marie, and I used to live in Windsor. Windsor and Detroit are close, you know what I mean? I lived in the not-too-new area. Now I live near Sault Ste. Marie, and the world is open to me. So I'm going to be doing a lot of Crownland camping, which is just like, you know, state, how do I, like, free land, free land, not a park, a lot of park tripping, Killarney, Lake Superior Park, I think that's it, so let's open up for any questions if there are any, oh, very good question, man, I actually meant to touch on that, that depends too, my favorite, because again, I'm tripping spring, summer, fall, right, that's, summer, there's really no worry, summer is like a carefree, I don't really have to worry about what I'm doing, sorry what I'm wearing as much. These are, do you say Merrell or Merrell? Merrell. Thanks guys. We'll call it Merrell. Yeah, I like to wear these a lot. These are called the Rapids. So these are neoprene inside. Very quick drying shoes. They don't have ankle support. They're not a hiker. And that might go against what some people think. My thinking behind this is, hikers are Gore-Tex. I get wet getting in and out of this boat. There is no getting around it. around like you can do do land entries and exits but nine times out of ten it's a water and you're standing up to your ankle whatever however deep it might be so I like for my shoes to dry if I'm wearing Gore-Tex hikers that come up to my ankles or whatever those are great for keeping me dry for like first two hours of the trip you know what I mean even if they don't get wet from water they get wet from sweat and they are not going to dry out period and that's okay if you're in the middle of the summer it doesn't matter but in the very early in the spring, in the morning, you try to put your boot on and it's frozen solid, it's not the funnest thing. So, having these, being able to dry these out by the fire enough at night, and I get all the protection I need out of these ankle-wise. Personally, the lace doesn't soak up water either because it's so small and has that little constrictor. I will say that I do wear neoprene socks if it's very cold underneath these as well. And then, if I'm not wearing my neoprene socks with these during the day, I will switch out at camp to my neoprene socks and only wear my neoprene socks at camp as camp shoes while these dry. Or while I give my feet a break because they've been wet all day. I think it's called the Rapid, right? Rapid, yeah. They're very lightweight. I've had these, this is my second pair of them. I blow through a pair in a season, I'll tell you that too, like they're not, like you will ruin them. How do you get into the room? How do I actually physically get in? I see you, like, stepping on the edge, or leaning down on the other top, but when you have to, like, how do you do it? Yeah, so it's actually, it just takes a little bit of getting used to it. It's a little bit of a graceful thing. So, a lot of the entries is very rocky. It's really hard to get in, you know what I mean? I had to rappel my boat into, well, I had to rappel it down a cliff to get to the portage with a rope. Anyways, yeah, it's just, you kind of balance it with the one hand, step in quick, keep your center of gravity low. I can't really show you too much of it. I mean I can. Just basically keeping my center of gravity low. I don't actually hold onto the gun on that one. I'm thinking about it just in like this. You can stand in these boats when it's in the water. It tips, but not bad at all. This is a very, very stable boat. I've never considered even tipping in one of these ever. I was in, looking for it with my buddy Sean, almost a tornado kicked up in the pitch. The wind was so bad, I was still fine. But anyways, getting in, I usually grab the front, the front sit down on that and then the same way to get out I grab this and pull my body up low center of gravity step out again I swear you can stand up on these things it's not a problem no it's very stable very stable you're so low Yes, what about first aid? Okay, yeah, so I brought my first aid kit, basically I bring things and I think everyone should cater their first aid kits themselves. For me personally, black flies, they kill me. I have a horrible reaction to them I like my blood gets poisoned from them. It's really bad. So I have to carry a lot of Benadryl Look who I found Joe, how's it going? Good. How you doing? Good. Good to see you again. Good to see you. Welcome to Wisconsin. Thanks. First time in the States or what? No, no, I love the States, been around lots, been around lots. Look at we got the the council tools All the awesome axes that Mr. Rooster has designed. You designed all these? No. Okay, take that back most a lot of my, so the woodcraft lines we have to pack axe, a new camp carver and then I brought some personal ones, you got the the double bit and well Hudson Bay yeah that's a cutie I was looking at that yesterday for sure, very cool, that double bit's pretty awesome too I'm busting my chops over here.