In this highlight from The Brief, Shabbos Kestenbaum asks Margot Cleveland about her lawsuit against Dearborn, Michigan — and why she says the controversy is about more than Ramadan signs.
Cleveland claims she was told she could attend certain community meetings as a resident, but not as a journalist, and says she began to see retaliation after publicly questioning city officials. Shabbos then asks Cleveland directly whether Dearborn has a “jihadi problem.” Cleveland says Dearborn is diverse and that she has no problem with Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, or anyone else practicing their faith. But she argues that public officials should be judged by whether they excuse or celebrate terrorism — not by their religion.
The conversation returns to the heart of her lawsuit: Cleveland says she is not asking Dearborn to take Ramadan signs down. She says she is asking for equal treatment for Christians and Jews under the First Amendment.
You allege that you were told that you could attend community meetings,
but as a resident, not as a journalist.
Why would they tell a journalist you can't come as a journalist?
First off, the community meeting
is not something other people know about.
I was invited by mistake because I am involved
in the community in my neighborhood and I got the invitation.
And because I was coming, but not as a representative
of my neighborhood, I put down the Federalist.
And this meeting was for select and most likely people
who agreed with what the mayor was saying.
And what their point was, well,
this isn't for something to be broadcast.
This is just, you know, me talking to people in the neighborhood.
and that, you know, you can come here if you want to be as,
you know, just someone as a citizen,
but not if you're reporting it.
Well, I, of course, refused to do that. I didn't end up
publishing anything at that time about the meeting,
but I've never been invited to one again,
which I fully expected.
I fully expect that right after they said, don't ever let her know when
we're having these meetings again
um and the mayor actually opened it up with a snide comment about
dissension in the city and how even some residents
of Dearborn are you know trying to cause fighting
by and by things on social media to monetize it he
was definitely referring to me there's nobody
else in the city who has that kind of uh public following on X
and i'm taking him left and right
when he does things like excuses October 7th, and he knows that.
You know, it's also interesting
because you're one of the very few American citizens
who actually want to go to these bureaucratic local council meetings,
and they're keeping you out. You know, you're a model citizen.
Look, I have to ask you what might
be a bit of an uncomfortable question,
but I think it's really important.
So in 2025, federal authorities arrested three young men
from Dearborn, Michigan.
Their names were Ayob Nasser, Mahmoud Ali, and Majid Mahmoud,
in connection with an alleged ISIS-inspired terror plot
targeting locations in Michigan.
You then have the Islamic Center of America, which is in Michigan.
They hosted a memorial service for a Hezbollah operative
who had been killed in an Israeli
airstrike.
You then have the Hadi Institute in Dearborn,
which held a commemoration of the martyrs,
which honored high-profile figures like
the Iranian Quds Force commander Qassem Soleimani
and Abu Mahmoud al-Muhandis.
So the Wall Street Journal penned
an op-ed last year saying Dearborn is the jihadi capital
of America.
So I have to ask you, as someone who lives there,
does Dearborn, Michigan, have a jihadi
problem? I have to admit, all of those stories shocked me.
I see Dearborn as eclectic, diverse.
I have Muslim neighbors. I have a Jewish neighbor.
I have Christians. I have atheists.
And on the day-to-day basis, I don't see any
of that type of thing going on. And I have absolutely
no problem with Muslims, people of faith,
Jewish people, anyone exercising their deeply held
beliefs. But, and like I said in the lawsuit,
I'm not asking for the Ramadan signs to go down. I
wish my Muslim neighbors a happy Ramadan, blessed Eid.
I'm respectful of that. But what I do not
believe and what I will not tolerate is terrorism,
support of terrorism, excusing terrorism,
or associating with people who do any of that,
because that is a threat to our country.
The mayor has excused terrorism.
A city council member has. All of those examples you have
right there. So it shows that there is a segment
that is a problem and that needs to be addressed
and that some of these individuals
are elected officials is appalling and shocking.
And I hope that people take note of that.
That's not Islamophobia.
That is not condemning Muslims.
It's talking about specific individuals, as you just detailed.
They are celebrating, honoring terrorists and terrorist organizations.
And that should not be tolerated in our country.
So I'm glad you brought up Islamophobia.
Dearborn, of course, is home to one
of the largest Arab-American communities in the country,
roughly 55% to 60% report Middle Eastern and North African ancestry.
How would you respond to critics like the mayor
or members of the city council who say
that you, Margot, you're just attacking Muslim Americans,
that you're just lumping together
two billion people under one banner of radicalism?
What would your response be to those criticisms?
When?
Where?
I've never said that.
And to the contrary, I've said the exact opposite.
right telling me somebody
is muslim doesn't tell me anything about them as a human being if they
support terrorism if they oppose terrorism tells
me nothing i have never and that's part of the
reason why i have no problem with this lawsuit you can dig
as deep as you want i have no problem
people going through everything i've ever said
or wrote because that is not my view my mom raised me
well. Every human being is created in the image and likeness of God.
I judge human beings as
individuals. Unfortunately,
we have seen that the mayor is someone who will excuse terrorism,
for instance, after October 7th.
So they can say that all they want, but not only is that not who
I am, not what I believe, not what I've ever said,
but my lawsuit is very clear. I'm not asking them
to take the Ramadan signs down.
I am asking them
to have equal treatment
for Christians and Jews.
A very different situation.
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