Giant Steps 2025 Single Vineyard Release

G'day, Mel Chester. Welcome back to D... Oh sorry, Melanie, you said you prefer to be called. Never. One person in the world. G'day, how are you? You've raced here from the Royal Sydney Wine Show. I'm glad you made the time. It was always going to be tight to get here in time. How was that experience this year? Oh great. It was really fun. Yeah, was it good? Are you sick of tasting ******* wine? Like, I did smash that beer you gave me on arrival. She came running through the door. It was like a relay race, wasn't it? We were waiting there like... I'm like, chuck it in the beer helmet, I'll do it. No, it's a really great show. And this year marks their 250th anniversary. Which is crazy. So there's some fascinating... Like, they were talking today that basically the first show ran in 18 something, something, something. I've forgotten the number. But it was, you know, six years before James Busby bought the first Cuttings into Australia. Yeah. So what was it running on? This is the thing though. The math doesn't compute to me. No. But it's kind of amazing to think about how much of our industry it's seen and how much it's nurtured and, like, directed styles. It was pretty fun. Great week. Always cool to taste some stuff. Good crew. Yeah, Ripper crew. Had some good boo. I really appreciate that list of trophy winners you gave us too. Yeah, that was super handy. Yeah, that's right. Sorry, I won't tell you about that. We're ordering some Pulse of Wine. No, we're not here to talk about that kind of espionage. We're here to talk about the new 2025 single vineyard collection from Giant Steps, of course. One of our favourite releases each year. It's becoming a nice little annual tradition where we get to get with you to look at these wines, isn't it? Tell us a little bit, for those that somehow have been living under a rock and don't know the Giant Steps story, what is a Giant Step and what makes it such an incredible brand in Australia? Look, great vineyards. We've got five, six vineyards across Sierra Valley that we look after and five of them we bottle into our single vineyard expressions from across the valley. So we're just passionate about these cool little pockets of our region and we make wines that taste of the place and they're yummy and transparent and delicious. And 25's a really good example of that, you know, slightly warmer vintage that has real, you know, authenticity and transparency to place straight up, which is kind of fun. So yeah, I love the 25's, it's been fun. I saw Flammer yesterday. Yeah, he was in town. Yeah, he tasted his 25 Salo and he said, it'll be like 17-ish in like 21. And he's like, there'll be like, he reckons the good producers in the region will make some of their best wines and like great producers will make like some of the best wines ever in 25. And I was like, that sounds like marketing ----, but he doesn't really usually spread that. No, no, it's not bullshit. It doesn't have a marketing bar in his body, Steve Flamster, that's your predecessor. That's a really cool like lens to put on that. And the funny thing is about 21 and 17 is they were both slightly cooler vintages, whereas the 25 is slightly warmer vintage. And so there's this sort of opulence and texture to the wines that I find like really yummy. Yeah. Like they're open and confident. So we're tasting these for the first time right now. And that's the first look at Tarrapin and it is, it's like a little less reduction, but there's also like the fruit is like really juicy and bright and like open weave. Yeah. Yum. I like that about it. I think that they're like the wines that wave to you immediately, which is kind of exciting. Like the 24s are certainly pithier, tighter acidity. 23s are such ethereal thinking wines. Yeah. And so it's kind of nice to have these wines. Like it was a really fun vintage, like warm, early, compact, you know, exciting. And I guess for some producers that would have been super challenging. I'm sure it was for you too, but with the resource you have and the amazing team you have at Latho and everything to be able to handle all that fruit coming in at once. Was this the vintage where you were doing it like half and half? No, that was 24s. Like 24s across two wineries. Yeah. 25 was our first vintage in our home in Yarra Glen. And between 24 and 25 vintage, we decided to renovate the winery and get it set up for all our gravity and all that stuff that we like to do. And it was so early that we were like a full month earlier than we were in 2026 and 2023. So we were so early that we didn't finish the internal renovation. So we were like making wine on scaffolding. Even when we visited last year, there was still scaffolding everywhere. You're still putting stuff together. And like, it's all done now. Like for vintage 26, it was all sorted. But like 25, we would have loved that extra four weeks ripening. And that is the way that vintage always works. I was chatting to someone this the wine show, thinking like, when in my career am I going to get bolder vintage that I know exactly how it's going to behave? Probably never. And maybe that's so frustrating and hard, but also maybe that's the beauty and the joy of grape growing is that every year is different and you get to dance a different dance because there's a different song playing. You know what I mean? So it was a cool vintage. So it was really compact. Within just over three weeks, the whole valley was picked. And you're right. The resourcing was a key to it because there was a day in 25 we were picking at like five sites at once. So there's grapes flying everywhere. That's craziness. So you had like five teams? Logistical nightmare. Yeah, it is. But again, very competent team who can smash it out. Well, it wasn't as much going on in the early days. You mentioned this Flamo, Steve Flamsteed, your predecessor. When Wade and I first started selling these wines for you guys some 15, 16 years ago, or more maybe, it was just tariffed and sexted vineyards. But the idea of Giant Steps is always the same. It was always, we're exploring the Yarra Valley. And it was just done through this kind of tighter lens. It really wasn't into upper Yarra there. It was kind of more in the valley floor around Greer and those warmer parts. But this was the wine. This was kind of the OG Chardonnay back then that we always used to talk about. And just drilled that one. Oh, so young. So tariffed. We're not getting too nerdy about it, but it's kind of the warmest side, I guess. Certainly the most northern and lowest altitude. I know the aspect is a bit different, but it's amazing that you get such elegance to this wine from a site like that. I can remember vintages like 16 and whatever, where it was a chunkier, bigger, blockier sort of wine. But even though that looks quite open and juicy and ready to drink now, it still has really fined up in style over the last few years, I think. It's a tighter frame wine in general than what it used to be. It's a great site. It's such an important one for the story because it's the first place that we ventured outside of Sexton. So Sexton's the home base in the origin story. But Tariffed was that next step outside of that one property, and that's how all of this happened. Because Flammeaux was like, they're ripening different, they taste different, let's bottle them differently. And so it is a really important part of that story. It's funny, that kind of south aspect in that warmer sub-region gives you these wines that are pithy, like their grapefruit rind. Because the Chardonnay comes from up the back, doesn't it? Yeah, south-facing. Where you're looking down towards. Yeah, yeah. So it's got its back to the sun, right? It's in shelter. You know, I always say like, think about that north-facing living room versus your south-facing bathroom. Like how much cooler that south... So it's the same on this little property. And so in the warm vintages, in the cold vintages, it's, you know, dirty martini, olive brine. And then in the warm vintages, it's like white pear and all those kind of... Yeah, because it's like white stone fruity kind of stuff. Yeah, jasmine flowers. Just so charming. Like it doesn't have necessarily... We're going to taste a couple other wines here that are going to have an extra level of intensity, probably, and structure and drive. But this is just so charming and easygoing and approachable and open and just beautiful. The essence of Yarra Chardonnay is that kind of, you know, seam of citrus, but then, you know, there's a purity and a kind of cleanliness that Yarra Chardonnay has. I can't really explain it. Digestiveness. Totally. You know, that's not even a word, but it's like moorishness or something like that. We saw that in the Salo 25 we tasted, which I continued tasting last night, actually. Oh, you swear I'm going to go home. And you talk about digestiveness and moorishness, like that wine as well, had the same sort of vibe of just this... It's got texture and richness, but it never feels heavy. Yeah, but that's the region, I think. And it almost sometimes feels like, yeah, there's a glide and a refresh to the palate that's quite unique to the Yarra. And this vineyard has this, we always talk about it, it's a bit, you know, hard to translate to some people, but it's got this kind of white flowers that kind of smells like fresh laundry, you know, when you get your laundry out of the dryer and it's like, oh, heavy and you wouldn't like it. It's not really my job, no, just joking. Yeah, but you do a **** load of laundry, bro, yeah. I'm the laundry king. But I think it was Sam Milton who described the Yarra Valley really well, saying we make mid-weight wines, you know, mid-weight, fresh, decal wines. Let's do sex. Do you want to taste sex? No, let's taste sex in China. We're talking OG. This one slaps this year, Cho, she's... It slaps, most of it slaps, so we're going to taste it. And it's cool, because when you're sitting at Tarifid, you can look back and you can see this vineyard up the hill back towards the mountains there. Yeah, once you know the shape and the look of Sexton, you can see it from all across the valley floor. So more north-facing, and it's quite a high point tucked into the foothills of the Warramate Ranges. Yeah, and so exposed up there. Oh my God, so windy. Yeah, well, there was that time you and I were up there, we were up there at the back of my car, let's crack a bottle of wine, and we poured it and like the wind blew it away on the way into the glass. We nearly lost Brent off the side of the hill. Bitterly cold up there at that time of year, because I think we went like now-ish, like August, September, it was stupid. And we don't have anywhere to house people. We're like, that's a great site to grow grapes. We're not going to put in a whole... I know there was talk at one point of putting a cellar door up the hill there. Thank God we didn't, it's a great place to grow grapes. And in some ways, it's a bit of a pipe dream that we'd love to think about, but it's a great... How did Phil come across the site at the beginning? Yeah, so he was originally... So Phil's a brewer by trade, right? But he also has always done this cool kind of visionary beverage thing, whether it was Dome Coffee in WA. If you've ever been to Perth or WA, amazing. So he's very into the coffee trade. He started pubs and breweries. So Matilda Bay and he was really involved in Little Creatures, which like... Little Creatures was like the first... I remember those years. Well, I mean, I think I just kept on going for it and finding things like this, right? And so back in the day, so he'd done Little Creatures, he'd done Matilda Bay, he'd done Devil's Lair. And he was working and knocking around in Oregon, doing stuff for microbreweries over there and wanted to come back to Victoria. And that's where the story goes, that he told me when I was first talking to him about joining the business, that Dr. Caritas from Yarra Yarring rang him and said, mate, there's this farm up the road. It's a horse stud. You'd be bloody mad to buy it because it's like real hilly, but it could be cool. And so Phil flew back from Oregon, walked the site with the then farmer and shook his hand on the spot. And he lived there with his family for 25 years. It's crazy, walking up that hill every day, that sounds like a nightmare. I love doing that. So if you're standing like at the nose of Sexton there, Yarra Yarring, like where you're talking about, that's like down on the left, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, like literally we share a fence line. So then like Warramate is up there and then Yarra Yarring goes down there and then you come up to Sexton. Yeah, yeah. So like right behind you, if you're standing on the nose of Sexton, right behind you is the Warramate Ranges and like the upper Yarra is sort of further that way. And then it goes sort of, you know, Yarra Yarring, Coldstream Hills, Medhurst that sort of wraps around the Warramate Hills. And you can see Yarringburg is like the next nose. Yes, exactly. So it's a cool spot to look across the valley and understand like that rolling gentle hills that is the valley floor. And, you know, that nose of the vineyard is like one big hillside and then there's like a vineyard that wraps all the way around that little hill. And on that site, you tend to get more power and richness in the wires, don't you? And Phil planted in the late 90s, planted a bunch of clones from Margaret River. So Gingina Mendoza, which is all that. Yeah, that's right, that Mendoza block down the road. Because you see the sunshine more in Sexton as well. It's like a brighter, golden-y style Chardonnay. But it's like super pithy this year as well. Like it's got a real slate-y kind of... The tannin? Yeah, it's got some white grape tannin or something. But like that is the key with Chardonnay, you know, it's fruit ripeness, acid texture. And then with this vineyard, there's that fourth dimension that is tannin and structure because of those small berries on the Jinjin clone. So we kind of like... Because it's hen and chicken, you get... You get more tannin, naturally. You're not pressing it harder, it's just like... It does have that slightly more golden fruit profile to it. That's the kind of feature of this for me, in a lot of ways, is like that... I'm not going to call it tropical because people get the wrong idea, but it's just more yellow fruits, richness to it. We always talk about like yuzu and orange peel and pink grapefruit stuff with that. Like you're right, it's more orange rather than yellow and green in the upper yarrow. Whereas this has got in the orange fruit spectrum. And there's a little bit of like fuzzy peach and all that cool stuff as well. Can I ask you a question and be honest? Because you've got so many great sites that you work with now and new vineyards that have come on in the last few years and stuff. Where does Sexton still sit for you? Not in terms of like quality, but how you feel about that site? Yes, it's the kind of home of Giant Steps and away, but now you've got Applejack, Bastard Hill, Primavera, Tasmanian Project, everything else. Like how do you maintain the same kind of attention and love on that original site? It's a great... Well, it's almost the most complex site because it's such a patchwork quill. It's our biggest site. Right. So there's... Everything from Chardonnay to Bordeaux variety. Exactly. So it kind of demands the attention. Like it requires you to be there and be present. And the wine is also like that. It demands your time. It's loud. And you know, it's me when I had blonde hair. Like that's who that is. When did you have blonde hair? For like three years in my twenties. Oh really? I was so fun. Tremendous. I'm going to have to dig for a photo. That's so funny. You'll look at me like, whoa, this is... I did blonde hair. Did you? For one summer. It was ******* horrendous. It's like the ugliest thing you've ever seen in your life. Because I couldn't quite get to like proper blonde. So it's like half orange, half blonde. I ended up burning half the hair out of my head. Oh no. We actually did one vintage. We did, everyone did frosted tips at Giant Steps. Oh, that's hilarious. So all the boys did frosted tips and then we all, all the girls dip dyed. So that was the last time. Just singing some 41 and ---- like that. It was so funny. The frosted tips was horrendous. But all the chaps just went and buzzed it off. It was amazing. That was one way to bond pre-vintage. It's just to all dye my hair. Yeah, because literally no one else would want to talk to you. So yeah, no choice. And you can spot them through Harvard and be like, oh yeah. Everyone, all the boys just wearing hats the whole time. Getting kicked out of the pub. So yeah, like the vineyard just demands your time. And like, you know, it's almost the weirdly, like the most creative vineyard. Because like, for example, Applejack, it's one block of Chardonnay, one clone. It's two picking calls. And it's scary because you've only got two, you know, two times. But whereas this, we've got, you know, what? 10 blocks of Chardonnay. It takes you three weeks to pick the joints. So in your role, there's a lot more input and responsibility. Not so much in what you're doing with vessels, but how you balance all those different components. Does some of this go to Yarra as well? Definitely, yeah. It's our workhorse, absolutely. But within that is like some really special little pots of shardy. So it's one of those ones where like during vintage, you know, I feel like I've got to nail the picking calls. Whereas this feels really creative because you can kind of be like, right, what are we picking tomorrow? I've got a crew booked for three weeks. So where are we heading tomorrow? Whereas, you know, we've picked, we've nailed Applejack to the minute, you know, or Barstow Hill to the minute. Whereas this is sort of like, we're picking for the next three weeks. What's next tomorrow? Yeah, let's roll over to the vineyard, taste some stuff, what's ready, what's not. So that's really... Should we taste the Barstow Shard? Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, fascinating. Well, then opposite end of the spectrum, I guess. So this has been the... You've tasted the two kind of OGs here in Tarraford and Sexton at the warmer end of your spectrum of sites. And then we get the Barstow Hill. We've spoken about this story over the last couple of years, but it's just the most incredible site with this amazing history, which we can touch on just briefly. And this is one of the third vintage, is it? Yep. Third vintage came to us in 2022 for the 23 vintage. So yeah, only the third time we've made, and certainly the warmest vintage this vineyard's seen. And it was just the most incredible season for this site. You know, right up the top of the valley at 400 metres above sea level. You know, latest ripening vintage vineyard that we have. Came to us with a lot of, you know, his... Yeah, mate, it's slapping this year, bro. Oh, ----. So it came to us with, like, all of this pedigree of a great sparkling site that had made some cool, like, table wines. But, you know, you wouldn't see the wines around very much before we grabbed the vineyard. And also came with, like, all of this kind of, like, whispers about it. Like, oh my god, it's crazy. It's so steep. It's so, you know, it's so high. It's so cold. It's so late ripening. And I'd never really tried any wines from it. I just walked the site and just fell in love with the place. And it's one of these places... It's an old Eileen Hardy block, isn't it? Yeah, well, they'd made... It would have made Eileen. They made some Bastard Hill wines. It was when they were doing Yarraburn and it was, like, the cutting edge of sparkling, you know, super premium sparkling, which is what Yarraburn was when it first hit the market. That's where this vineyard came from. It's just crazy even getting into the place because you drive kind of through the middle of the Yarra where it's flatter and you can see the hills in the distance and you slowly start winding up the hill and then you go through this bloody rainforest. I know. And there's all sorts of, like, creatures running around that you don't see in any other part of Australia, it feels like. You're in this dense rainforest, this windy road up the hill and all of a sudden you come to this clearing and there's this, like, beautiful sight just rolling down either end of this ridge with this amazing treeline. I think Ray planted those trees, didn't he? Yeah, he did. Didn't he plant them there to... They were anchors, yeah. They were winch point. Yeah. I used to winch in and out of the vineyard. It's how steep it is. They're about 50 metres high now. Well, there's a great video of Ray with the trees in the background and it's like, you know, his head height. And now I've got a photo, you know, 30 years later of it and they are so high. It's incredible. It's an amazing little property and it, you know, makes these chardonnays that are, you know, so unique. There is no chardonnay vineyard like it. So what makes it unique? What's special about Bastille? In terms of, like, the way it appears to me is it's always, you know, candle wax and, you know, wet rock and all this beautiful... So I was going to say, like, where you can see, like, fruit profile in the other two chardonnays we've tasted, this is just, like, all... Like, I see rainforest in it. I see, like, a wet fern kind of thing. A lot of secondary components, isn't it? Like, stony, like, pebbly, white rock crushed kind of business, like... Agave and, you know, ice. It's like... It tastes kind of like a cocktail-y sort of mixer or something like that. Is what I'm saying, yeah. It's delicious. It just doesn't go into that stone fruity territory where you see Taraford and Sexton, a bit more classic Yarra Valley Chardonnay. Yeah, obviously very well done. And this is just a totally different beast, isn't it? I think also you think, oh, it's going to be really acidic and really fine-boned. And certainly, like, the fine-boned wines we made in 23, it's such a cold vintage. But this shows, like, actually incredible power and presence that those warmer vintages and that hang time gives you and that, you know, long, cold, like, ripening up in the clouds wine. Just keeps going to you, doesn't it? Chamomile and elderflower. All that cool kind of crushed green herbs. It's, yeah. And what's the soils like up there? All the old red dirt. It's all red, yeah. Yeah, red dirt, yeah. So beautiful red volcanic basalts. So I've got a question with this, because we did a, it hasn't, we haven't published it yet because it's taken me forever to edit this ******* video. But we did, like, a Chardonnay taste-off with, like, we did, like, six top Aussie Chardonnays. So it was, like, Baston Hill. So it was all 24s. Sick, yeah, cool. Baston Hill was in there. We did 24 Toll Puddle and Geoconda. Kevin John helped me out. What have I missed? Bindi. What a line-up. And something else. Well, that's just nice to be in that line-up. And the Kumeyaay mates. Oh, yeah, yeah. We chucked in the mates, yeah. Anyway, there was, like, like, reduction in some of those wines is, like, a really key feature where I see, like, it's a stylistic thing. And I ******* dig it. Like, I love a little bit of sultry, sexy. I like it to a point. Yeah. But, like, in the top three wines in our tasting, yours was, like, the Baston Hill was the only one that didn't show, like, a crazy level of reduction. And so is that because the site doesn't really lend it? Or you don't really want to kind of work for it? Or you just, like, we spoke about this in the tasting the other day, didn't we? We just don't get it. Like, we don't really do that much to force it. You can, there are lots of ways you can promote it in your winemaking, whether it's, you know, often crushing. And I know that Michael does a bit of crushing, because you get more solids. So he might not be doing that for that reason. He might be doing it because he likes the fruit profile that he gets from that. But you could crush your grapes. You could add leaves back from last year. You could spray the vineyard with salt. There's lots of ways that you can promote it. I just don't think it's the way we make wine. We just squeeze the juice and stick it in a barrel. And we want it to taste like the vineyard. And I don't mind some of it. I don't mind sort of some of that, you know, when it goes to, like, white miso and, like, roast chicken skin. That's sexy. But sometimes when it goes to, like, you know, when it holds the palate, like, I want there to still be this, you know, that refreshing, cleansing thing we talked about. Because this is, like, ultimate purity in Chardonnay. It's like, it's because of, like, I can't even really see, though I'm sure there must be a lick of new oak in there somewhere, is there? Yeah, it's like 30%. Is it? Is it really? Yeah, but that's, like, again, the power of that beautiful vineyard. But typically you would only use, what, 10 to 20% new oak on the Chardonnay? Probably, like, 15% on the yarras and fifth swines. But yeah, I think this is probably, I don't know if I've said that, but I never ******* remember that number. It just ain't. I'll call Latho. Give me my phone. I'll call Latho. He'll remember. Oh, darling, like, you know, the intensity of this vineyard, I think that's the misnomer or the misunderstanding of, like, the higher up you go, the tighter, the leaner it will be. No way. The longer the hang time, the more power and presence the wine has. And in this dry, warm year, that's what this vineyard's been, that's what we grow it for. When did we go? Were we there after harvest, like, 20... Bastard. Yeah, no, no, just to the winery. It was... This time last year? It was this time last year, wasn't it? It was just in the big arse... Yeah, it was just before. No, that was in Sexton, bro. That was Sexton, right. And that's, like, 30% of that wine is that third year. Right, right, right, right. But you made a really interesting point about the altitude versus power thing. It is a misconception, isn't it? Because it really depends on when you're picking the grapes and what the phonological ripeness is at that point. And whereas, so Tarifid, which is a warmer, significantly warmer site than this, is often this leaner... Tighter, pithier thing, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. Because you have to give up a bit earlier. If you let Tarifid hang, what's the difference in picking time between Tarifid and Bastard? Close to three weeks. So, like, that isn't really as far as... Yeah, so if you were to let Tarifid go as far as this, right, it wouldn't make a quality... It would be, like, much pulpier and riper and pineapple-ier, maybe. But also, if you picked that really early, it would certainly be more, like, your lemon juice. Yeah, well, it's sparkling, totally. That's the way I think about it. So it's, like, one of the things that, you know... It's the same with Tassie, if you think about it as well. Like, Tasmania, it's colder. You're further away from the sun. There's more sunlight hours to ripen the fruit. And the same up here. There's more sunlight. This has more time hanging in the sun to get the fruit ripe versus somewhere that's, you know, slightly... Because that's 32. Yeah. It's not like you're picking it at, like, 12a or something. You know, like, it's... You've just judged at the Sydney Wine Show, right? One of the top two or three biggest wine shows in the country. Would it taste as shitload of Chardonnay, no doubt. We're killing it on Chardonnay in Australia. Aren't we killing it on Chardonnay? So, yeah, two points. First of all, what won? I have no idea. We've got the piece of paper she left on my desk. It's fine, it's fine. I wrote it in code. Firstly, yes. How ******* great is Australian Chardonnay? We're absolutely ******* killing it. It's amazing. Second thing I was going to ask is, stylistically, like... And there isn't one... It's easy to give a cliched answer. Like, oh, it depends on the region. But there isn't one style. But what do you think the identity of Australian Chardonnay is becoming? Like, you taste a wine like this, which is purity and structure and restraint and power, like, latent power. And then there's other wines that we've talked about, like in that showdown, which are just much broader and more classic. Like, if you were to take a style of Australian Chardonnay to the world, you only take one and say, this is what we're doing here in Australia. What do you think that identity looks like? Well, it's modern, vineyard-based. It's wines that have complexity and texture. And I think that they're surprising. They're, you know, not the big, sunny, you know, sloppy, juicy, oaky, butchery things that... I love that when you go outside of this beautiful country to tell the story of Australian wine, and you pour them a glass of literally any Chardonnay from this country, and they are blown away. They're like, wow. These wines have acidity, they've got frame, but they've got fruit balance. They have incredible complexity and texture. And these wines are, like, the quality level, the rising tide, you know, which honestly stems from great viticulture, ingenious winemaking from Dave Bicknell, Ginny Wilcox, you know, to name two of 15 people that have inspired that sort of drive in this incredible country. And I'm so proud of it. I think it's one of the things that this... When I tell the story of Australian wine, which sometimes happens outside of this country, when I'm, you know, in Norway or somewhere, cool. Very cool. Australian wine is like... I'm like, you guys need to get around the Chardonnay. Are you seeing a positive response? Is it still pretty challenging? No, no, I reckon people are totally open to it. Some markets are different to others. You know, some markets have, you know, completely conceptualised that Australia makes great quality wine. You know, UK is a great example of that. There's so many fantastic people who travel here, they understand the wines. It's a very, like, you know, sharp wine trade over there. Well, the UK is one of the few markets that didn't go drastically backwards. Like last year, we were looking at the export figures yesterday in our weekly video. A lot of the Asian markets have done well, but a lot of the traditional markets have really gone backwards. But the UK was pretty stable. The UK is just chugs, it's solid. And it's a very, very evolved and advanced wine trade. It's incredible. Yeah. Love it over there. And why wouldn't you ******* love this one? I mean, this is a lovely wine. You're being very humble, obviously, but this now for us is, you know, in that top echelon of half a dozen Australian Chardonnays. I hate the word Grand Cru, but, like, we've got a few Grand Crus, like, in Australia, like, single-side Chardonnays that are just below your ******* socks. Just an amazing patch of dirt, in the right hands, at the right time. And that's what you can get. With the right amount of age as well, like an established vineyard, not just like, you know, someone did the awesome work ******* 30 years ago, so now that we can have this. And that's kind of the freaky ---- about this vineyard as well, right? Like it's, we've only, this is only our third vintage. We've got four hectares, a couple of years ago that we pulled out, that we're going to start replanting in the next year or so. And it's going to be new clones and, you know, like new density and completely set up. And imagine, like, it's not, that's not for me to enjoy, as a winemaker. That's for, you know, 30 years time, for someone else to enjoy. And like this vineyard that came to us with so much history, we get to be a part of that, you know, next point and setting it up for it. It's an expedition. That's really cool. And of course there's delicious pinot on that side too. I don't know if we'll get to it today, but there's a stunning, like, ethereal pinot that comes from the end. I do want to open it. Can we open it? It's super, it's pretty quick. Just really quickly. Go, go, go, get it. Yeah, you're like, I'm going to pick up the camera. So gorgeous. All right, so you're twisting my arm here. We have to taste the bastard pinot quickly because it's sitting under the table and it'd be rude not to. And we're here for you all at home to let you know about this beautiful wine. The last couple of years, this has been a really pretty, kind of dainty, delicate thing. Doing the same thing again. Colour's gorgeous. In like this rose, hippie, kind of like, almost like sweet red frogs and super perfumed. Yeah, it looks like kind of Norello-y, something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But without any, like, tannin. It's just so, like, gorgeous. It's softer than that, it's like more silky. And yeah, it's like, it's like the most hedonistic example of pinot, right? Totally, there's so much aroma. And, you know, Yarra does do, as, you know, Sam Middleton, I've heard it from Mac Forbes' mouth too, like the perfumed, medium-bodied wines, irrespective of variety. And so the perfume and the medium body is a big part of the pinots that we grow. But this wine, at the top of the mountain, kind of gives you that, like, the most, like, potpourri, kind of, like, aromatic wine. Like it's almost, it's like, you could, you know, wear it on your next Tinder date. Seriously sexy. So, all right, we're on the clock here. But I think, should we bounce from here to Primavera? Because, like, we could do Red Dirt versus Red Dirt. Red Dirt, and dropping down. Yep. And also Prims, I think, the wine for me this year, that's, like, had, you know, just really loved that warm year. Like, it's got this wine, it's wine of, like, density and texture. Whereas previously, it's, like, often the most, you know, sweet and succulent wine. There's an element of that still in this, which is why we love it. But it's become this, this wine that's, kind of, just fleshed out beautifully. Might I say it's almost the forgotten child sometimes? It's this tiny volume. Like, we make such a small, it's a small little vineyard, only, it's our smallest vineyard, actually, when I think about it. So, yeah, they're tiny volumes. And often makes these wines that do go under the radar, because they're not as, you know, showy and as glossy, maybe, as other wines. And it's such a clear narrative with the other sites, and Primavera, kind of, sits in the middle of a few of those vineyards, doesn't it? Yes, yeah. Well, it's a gangster's vineyard. Lou Primavera. Lou, my guy, my man. Yes, but it's a very, very cool site. And you made a tiny little bit of Chardonnay off there as well this year, which is very cool. So, like, the difference between these two, as I can see it, anyway, just popping and pouring, because these wines are good. How, when did you bottle 25s? January? January, yeah. So, this looks, to me, like, it looks weirdly, in comparison to Bastard, anyway, it's earthier. And it's more, like, savoury, like, it's more like game meat, sort of, duck fatty kind of business going on. And a little bit darker than the Bastard. Yeah, it's always, like, got that pomegranate and cranberry thing. But then it's kind of got this lovely, kind of, slippery character to it as well. So, there's a couple of little hot spots in the Yarra. And there's the Gladysdale hot spot, where Applejack is, and where Deer Farm, that Coldstream Hills grows. Ben Porte's got a vineyard there, who have I missed? Hazeldean from Oak Ridge, just a cool little hot spot. And this little neck of the woods, down in Woorie Allick, is another little hot spot. So, the start of the Lone Star Creek is Primavera. Then it goes to Oak Ridge is Hank, Lone Star Creek, and Lusatia Park. And that little stretch of red dirt in Woorie is just a really precious little place for Pinot. Facing, sort of, more southwest. So, it gets a lot more of the prevailing cold winds. And so, it's actually, we pick this the week after Applejack normally. So, it's actually, you know, second to last in terms of ripeness. And again, that hang time and the intensity, the 25 spring, and the flesh, and the core, and the body that mine has. Because it's like, it can be quite nervy on release sometimes. I would agree with you on that. Yeah, 24 especially. Like, you know, like all of those, like, bouquet garni, herby things. Totally. And you almost see, like, a gin kind of character in it sometimes, I think. Juniper. Juniper berry sort of thing going on. This year, it's got more flesh on the bone. So, like, it's kind of, like, a little bit plusher. A little bit silkier. Like, it's still got that nice, kind of, nervy acid in the background. But it's like, it looks a little bit like, like on release. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's definitely, they're definitely a little bit more showy, these wines, at this stage. The 21 vintage, they're more voluptuous. But the tannin is not, like, overt either. The structure's there, but it's still fine. Some of those warm years, you see that bigger structure as well. I haven't seen that in the wines so far. Is that something you've seen? I wonder if, like, what I think about these 25s is, like, that warmer season gave us this, you know, amazing juiciness to the wines. But then also this tannin resolution that kind of offsets the slip and the sort of syrupiness of the vintage. Not that it's syrupy. I guess it's a bad way of putting it. But the tannin resolution gave you a bit more kind of texture. And we also, we love kind of interplaying those sides of the, you know, the sweetness and then the savouriness of the tannin and the bunch and all that sort of stuff. And so I think the 25s, definitely glossy, maybe like more aromatic. Glossy's a good word, yeah. And juicy. Juicy, yeah. Because, like, usually you can kind of see the stalkiness a little bit in this wine as well. Like, you can see the bunch as, like, as a feature. In this, I'm ******* terrible remembering this number. I want the exact percentage. I feel like called friend. How many bunches? Hey, Siri. No, the 24 was about 40%. And this is less than that, 20, 25. So I think that's one thing that we always work on. Like, it's one of the 1% things every year we get better is how do we balance this as part of the wine? And, you know, yeah, love it. It's a beautiful wine, Mel. Well, in 25, it's one of the wines I think is the most surprising to people because it has moved so much from, you know, those, that slightly cooler vintage in 24, 23, 22. Where it looked more like what we saw in the bust, more or less. Like, it was more that really red fruited zone. Now she's got this plum skin and... Yeah, it's more purple. Yeah, because, like, well, just going back to the bust, technically, I think, like, maybe the first vintage you made it, you're like, this is, like, pushing it to get this ripe. And, like, this is, like, borderline on whether this is actually table wine. 23, yeah, 100%. But, like, that wine really looks, like, resolved. 25s, yeah. So, I guess what I'm asking is, you've had a few looks at... So, is this your fourth vintage, fifth vintage? How long have you been... It's just, it's a little bit mad, isn't it? 22 was my first vintage. Oh, okay, yeah. 23, four, five, six, I'm five now. Yeah, so... And this is the fourth release. This is the fourth release, exactly. Yeah. So, like, with these wines, like, is there, because I... Is there something that you've noticed in each of these wines where you're like, oh, okay, actually, this is what I want to do with this. Like, because... 100%. Yeah. I'm never done. Like, even when I bottle them, I'm like, hmm, we should... Like, I'm, like, you're always working. And it starts at the vineyard. Every year we're doing, we're trying to make, we're trying to grow the very best grapes in Australia, if not the world. Yeah. So, that's what we're trying to do. Why not? And, like, you can always improve. And we're never done. And so, yeah, every year we want to sharpen them. We want to make them better. And it mostly happens in the vineyard. And then it's how we manage it in the winery to make sure that that's translating as well as possible. I feel like such a dick saying, like, this is the best release of these wines. But I, like, I don't know. I love the 25 Pinots, mate. They're so good. All right, let's try the big boy, though. Should we try Applejack? That'll be the test. The Jack. Nice cheers. That was good. Holy ----, that almost exploded those glasses. All right, so this is 25 Applejack. All right, so Applejack now. The, you know, the Grand Cru of the Pinot sites, you could argue. I know you love all your children equally. Definitely, whatever year they change. But we love them all equally, but a little bit more. A little bit more equally. We've all got a favourite child, let's be honest. Applejack, same altitude as Primavera, but we're moving over to the east-facing slope in Gladysdale. Yeah, amazing little property. Like, you stand at the top of Applejack, it's, like, quiet. You look down this beautiful valley. You can smell all that sort of temperate rainforest behind you, but you're sort of basking in that gentle morning sun. Yeah, it's an amazing property. Always, like, you know, the yin to the Primavera's yang. If Prim is sweet, succulent, red fruit, and Applejack is often blue fruit and savoury and earthen. It's basier. Way more base. It's, like, yeah. It's all about the base. No trouble. Lots of trouble. Yeah, still got plenty of trouble in 25. What do you reckon, like, in the... That's outrageous, the smell. So, like, if you can, like, kind of put a personality on the 25 compared to, like, the last couple of vintages. Like, I don't know. It's not Nicki Minaj, but I can't. We were talking Taylor Swift last year. Is this a lot of peanut? No, that was the year before, actually. Is that the best song ever? Gosh, let me think that one through. I don't know. This wine's always also, like, weirdly a sum that's greater than its part. Like, all of these little blocks and these little patches of Pinot, we put them together and we're like, wow, there's something strange going on there. There's some real chemistry. There's some real magic, you know, in this beautiful little vineyard. It's a crazy completeness. Completely. You took the words out of my mouth. It's the most complete of the lineup. Yeah. Where I think Sexton, Bastard, Primavera, Coal River, they all have their own personalities and great. This is almost taking the best of all of them and in the one wine. Like, it's got perfume, it's got depth, it's got power, it's got earth, but the structure is the most structured of the Pinot. It does have, like, a kind of crushed rock, minerally fairness here that I see as well. Because, like, sometimes it gets a little bit more, like, mushroomy. Yeah, it's all fennel seed and crushed rock and, yeah, like, cool stuff. But this is, like, a little bit brighter tone for Applejack, maybe? Like, a little, I don't know. I love that. I mean, it's an amazing property. We have lots of fun making it. How many years is it now, Applejack? Applejack? We've had it since 2012. Yeah. But we've been making wine off of there since 2009. Like, Fleur-de-Lys made Applejacks from 2009. And then they bought it. Well, actually, no, maybe it was after 20, whatever. Who cares? Somewhere in there. But it's a, yeah, it's a really special little part of the world. And we're always really proud of it, too. Like, it's the wine that everyone knows and recognises. And, like, I think there's some more cult wines in there. But this wine is the wine that everyone's, like, wow, can't wait to taste it each year. So Chardonnay is a thing that we can, like, we talk about it all the time. I think it's, like, pound-for-pound the best thing that we make. Maybe Grenache in Australia is, like, one thing we can do, like, world-class. Semillon? Semillon, obviously, yes, in the Hunter. Sorry, Barossa. And the Barossa? Yeah, some Barossa, yes. But how do you find, when you're taking, like, Pinot overseas, like, is it more challenging than pushing Chardonnay? Or is, like, do people, will they give Aussie Pinot a go? They definitely will. I think it's as challenging as Chardonnay. Because we're known as, you know, Shiraz and, you know, those happy fun wines, great, you know. So those cool climate varieties, absolutely. They're like, oh, wow, that's not what we expect from the country. But, you know, Pinot is the one that, you know, if Chardonnay grows great everywhere and we make consistently great wines, Pinot maybe doesn't grow great everywhere. And there's, like, you know, more, sort of, concentrated pockets of it across our country. You know, that means that it is a variety where the band of tolerance in terms of temperature and climate conditions is smaller. So to be able to be in one of those pockets of the world in the Arrow Valley is pretty fun. I love the variety. You know, there's a great quote, I think even Fleming did it on your podcast, where he talks about it's the variety that makes you look deeper and think. It's a pound for pound by volume in my house, it's Chardonnay. But the wines that have changed my life have been Pinot. And they've made me, you know, rethink. I remember the first bottle of, you know, Rousseau with Adam Waddowitz when I was two seconds out of university. And I couldn't believe the wine. I'd never. He opened Rousseau for you when you were just out of uni? It was a different time. He's a baller. Burgundy was maybe a different price point. Yeah, I was like 22, 23, straight out of uni, working in Great Western. Waddowitz was my boss. Do you work at Bess? I worked at Great West, at Seppelt in Great Western. Oh, at Seppelt, right. And Waddowitz was there for a vintage, and then he went back to SA. But, you know, him, Adam Carnaby, who makes wine in the Adelaide Hills, and I opened my first bottle of Rousseau close to Jacques, 2002. I can still remember it. It's one of those, like, so the variety that like anchors you in the moment and makes you appreciate the wine in front of you and the glass of wine that you've got is always Pinot for me. Chardonnay is the wine that I enjoy by volume and by value the most, but Pinot's are the wines that have changed my life. So it's kind of like, I love that I get to make Pinot. And this little part of the world in the mountains to the southeast of the valley floor is where these little pockets that... And I guess it was a variety that kind of brought you to the giant steps of the Yarra Valley. Well, this vineyard, this variety. I used to collect this wine before I got to walk it and make the picking decisions with Flammeau. It's the wines that, yeah, it's a very special place. We asked you last year at the end of a fabulous tasting with all of the hats you wear, the different things you do. It's a significant business now you're running. How are you going? Are you okay? How's the evolution of Giant Steps from a business point of view the last 12 months? How's everything going? The market's challenging? Market's challenging. It's really challenging for a lot of people out there, but it's full of positivity as well. You know, people like drinking better wine and spending more money on it. Fantastic. They are looking for wines of provenance. They have story, they connect to place. My favourite thing about wine is that every drop of that is grown. I don't get to turn a tap on or like buy more ingredients from, you know, wherever. That's not how it works. And I think that that's one of the great joys of making wine is that it's from the ground. So I'm excited. I think the people who come out behind us are going to be, you know, interested in that story too. So the business is good. We've got a great team. And every year, I know it's fun to work. I like going to work. This is what I'm doing for work. What we did today, I tried some wines. I tried like beautiful, you know, amazing old... Today at the wine show, I just reminded you that our industry is actually quite strong. There's lots of really positive stories. I know it's hard out there for some people and I don't want to discount that. But I think most importantly, there are some incredible wines from the Yarra Valley, from Giant Steps, but from the wine industry that, you know, the future's cool. Yeah, the future's exciting. Amazing. Well, Mel, it's always an amazing pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for coming. We love everything Giant Steps. It's always been very close to our hearts here for a long, long time. It was the wines I poured at my wedding. We've always loved this brand and the sites and the people involved. So long may that continue. And 2025, holy ----. These ones are amazing. What a release. They're popping out of the t-shirt gun. Yeah, the t-shirt gun is out. You may have quietly mentioned earlier... You may have quietly mentioned earlier your favourite vintage to date, at least the vintage of the year. We know that much. She's too humble to say it, but Mel is extremely excited about these wines. Might go down as one of the great Giant Steps vintages. And certainly, if you want to rip the top off and drink these wines... They're ******* ready to go as well. They're not like, you know, you can just wait and see how good these wines get. They're ******* brilliant. Incredible. And the detail of all different sites, it's all there. So well done, mate. All right, probably beer o'clock in there. Oh, ready for another one. Let's go. Enough wine tasting, wine chatting. All right. Cheers, guys. Thank you.