A little backstory of Addicted Fishing, Cameron Black, and Jordan Knigge.

Hey, what's up everyone out there? Thank you so much for tuning in to another Addicted Fishing Podcast. You guys have been just hammering me because we don't put these out very much anymore and apparently we trend like pretty good on the fishing podcasts. Like we're like ranked on the podcast pretty high and so. We're like 2,800 out of 29. I'm totally kidding. No, we're like ranked pretty high and I think we would benefit from recording these a little bit better or actually like. I mean somebody just asked me the other day, do you guys do podcasts? Yeah, not in the summertime. I was just going to say when the days get short, we do podcasts. When the days are long, we're fishing. Well, it's funny too because like sometimes it'll be like Clint's just on his A-game getting the podcast like edited, getting them up like instantly and then I'm not on my A-game. I'm like screwing up and like not publishing them good and then Clint will go off of his A-game and not edit them and then that's when I'm like on my A-game and like asking him like where the hell the podcast is. No, no, no, don't admit defeat or fault. It's always. The last podcast that is still sitting in the podcast folder is Clint's fault. Okay. And I didn't put it out because remember Clint, we were like we need to put this out like this week and if we don't, we're basically burning it and we didn't put it out and so now we had to burn it because it was right before the Sturgeon opener and we talked like Sturgeon, remember? Yeah. Yeah, so anyway guys, there's just a little backstory of but if you guys want to hear more of these podcasts, please just do something. Tell us, comment, send us some Instagram messages. Tell us a story on what you want to hear. Shoot us some emails. Let us know. Let's hear some comments on our YouTube channel, wherever to let us know that we need to be recording more of these because if we get enough good feedback, we'll figure out a way to put more effort in and record these damn podcasts because we like recording them. We do like recording. It can be anything too from like about the current state of the government. Oh, we could talk about like how like little got his name or like, I mean anything like, you know what I mean? That we need to talk. We do need to talk more about that stuff. So I thought about today's podcast. It would be fun to tell a bunch of people who are listeners are how you two got involved in addicted because I don't think that story has been told ever on our podcast. You've told everywhere else ish. You would be surprised cam how many people don't have a clue. That's funny. Think about it. We get 8,000 new YouTube subscribers a month, sometimes 15,000. Those are people that have no clue who we are, where we came from, why we started to dig. Well, we just found Jordan living under a rock. He just likes to catch fish. So there's a mess of hair under a bridge. Hey, what are you doing? You go first because Jordan was after you. So we got to do this in sequential or I could start and just talk about why I started addicted originally. Let's go with that. Okay. Ground zero, ground zero. So first of all, before we get this started, let's go Brandon. And then after that, let's talk about why I started addicted. So if you guys didn't know kind of my backstory, I grew up in foster care pretty much my whole life. And my parents struggled with heroin addiction. My brother did pretty much my whole family struggled with addiction and eventually passed away overdosed on drugs. But I do have some faint memories of my dad taking me fishing. Actually, the funniest thing ever that I remember is my dad used to take me fishing. So he didn't have to buy a fishing license. What he would do is he would, he would take me and my sister and we would sleep in the or be whatever, or sometimes we'd be out there. But a lot of times he would night fish for catfish. He loved catfishing. So he'd go out at night. And then also the game was right out at night, so a lot of night fishing. And, uh, my dad was a heroin addict guys. So he probably wasn't very legal with anything he did. But, uh, anyway, so that I remember that because I specifically remember him getting checked one night and the game one was like, where's your fishing license? And he's like, well, I'm not fishing. My son's fishing. And I'm like five years old, like bring it on. And so that's not my run. But regardless, some of those memories I do, they stuck with me. Like, I, I think I, they stuck with me big. I remember my dad one time bringing home like this giant trout, which we're not going to tell you how he got that trout, but I remember him one time bringing home this giant trout. Um, and I was just like dumbfounded at how big this thing was. And I just had some memories of fishing. And then I went into foster care. I got in some trouble when I started getting older into like my teenage years, I got into some really bad trouble in the state of Washington. Finally just took me away from my parents forever. And I ended up in battleground out in the middle of nowhere. In my opinion, I was from like downtown Vancouver. And so when I asked where you originally were from, yeah, I was in downtown Vancouver. I was born in Longview actually Longview, Washington. Um, but I ended up in, in battleground over kind of by Louisville, you know, out there, out in that area. And I was in Boy Scouts. And so with Boy Scouts, you know, you start camping and doing all these things. And I started getting into fishing in Boy Scouts, you know, going fishing on trout fishing, camping trips and stuff like that. And then I got into an age where, you know, when I got into my teenage years where Boy Scouts was kind of, I just didn't care about it anymore. You know, you start getting older and you don't think Boy Scouts are that cool anymore. And I stopped fishing. I didn't really fish from probably 15, 16 until I was about 18. I didn't really fish at all. Then when I was 18, I got a job at Sportsman's Warehouse. And one of my buddies there, well I met Josh. I met Josh Handy there. That's where I met Josh. Me and him used to go smallmouth fishing and largemouth fishing all the time. And then one of my buddies took me steelhead fishing. And pretty much from that day forward, I was like, just, there was nothing stopping me. I was going fishing nonstop every day. But this kind of background that I had of addiction and drugs and all these things that I went through as a kid kind of stuck with me. And it really resonated with me on the fishing side of things because I started thinking about all these kids that were like me, you know, all these kids that grow up in these areas where honestly they don't have access to fishing or they're in foster care and their foster parents don't fish. And I really wanted to just share that same passion and addiction that I had for fishing. And so I started a fishing website, called it Fishing Addicts Northwest. I was writing blog articles. I was writing articles for Northwest Sportsman Magazine about fishing and just fishing every single day, calling in sick to work, like just literally consuming my life with fishing. And that's where the name Addicted comes from. You know, I named it Addicted Fishing because I chose this healthy path of fishing versus what my parents and my family chose of, you know, drug addiction. And so the brand continued to grow. I have a marketing background. I've done marketing and business development kind of my whole life. And so it was an easy transition into the fishing world to start kind of branding fishing and teaching people how to fish. And we've stuck with the motto from day one, educate, entertain, and inspire. We put all sorts of videos out, you know, educating people and teaching people about fishing and advocating for fishing. And yeah, it's gone really good. But I will say when we kind of first started, you know, about three, four years into the blog and we had built a following, we probably had six or 7,000 followers on Facebook and we, and you know, we had a decent Instagram and we had some YouTube videos. We would make these like highlight reels of us steelhead fishing all over the place. I still remember all the YouTube like creator studio songs. They would all be too. They're all like the familiar songs. Yeah. So we'd make a lot of that stuff. Memories. That's the first thing I think about too when I think of those videos. But I would say we were kind of looked at in the fishing industry as just like punks. Like we were just little punk kids. You know, I wore my hat like up off my head and kind of crook to the side. And you know, I just didn't really give a give a about what anyone thought about me. I just was really, I really loved fishing and I wanted to share that with other people, but I couldn't really like turn what I had built into like a brand or into something more professional until I met Cameron. And then I met Cameron. And again, don't get me wrong. We had short rest flashers and we had Joel's jigs and we had, we had some people in the industry that definitely liked what we were doing and they saw a little bit of the vision, but I didn't necessarily have like a bigger picture vision of where I was going to take the brand and what I was going to do with it. And then I met Cameron. How did that happen? Well, I'm going to back you up like two seconds because you know, you, you talked about these punk kids running around and you would, you know, I mean, don't get, I mean, I wasn't oblivious to like fishing addicts Northwest before I met you on the water. And, uh, you know, I'd see these pictures, these steelhead close enough. And I'm like, sons of bitches in my backyard. Like, Oh my God. Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's just, it's crazy that you got your, did you catch your first steelhead on that river? Yes. Yeah. So it's just kind of like literally, I think I might've just been three years ahead of you in this, like, you know, kind of crazy fishing world, but seeing those pictures and stuff like back in the, uh, the days of I fish and blogs like that. But at that time, you know, Facebook was just kind of coming around and, uh, you know, social media for that in general. And so like, yeah, definitely heard of fishing addicts Northwest. I kind of never like draw an opinion of like, Oh, okay. These kids are punks or whatever. This person's punk until they treat me bad or say something bad. And then it's, you know, then it's the same thing that why people don't like us today. People didn't like us back then because they didn't like that we post pictures. They didn't like that we made videos. People don't like you because they don't know you. Yeah. And that, and, and sometimes like, you know, when you see someone being successful or driving a little bit of success online or wherever it is, even whatever scale that might be, like whether you're a guy who's, I mean, shoot, look at the guys that sometimes even post their like first salmon on social media. They get ripped sometimes. And it's like, so I never, I never tried to draw that conclusion like until I actually meet and like know somebody, whatever. So coincidentally, you know, you were running that for at least three years, probably at least three, yeah, three, 11 years. So I was 2009. It was 2009 when I started it. Yeah. So 2009 and then, Oh yeah. So she's like 12 years now. Yeah. I don't know, 70 years ago, whenever, but anyways, long and short I'm out fishing wobblers. And back when we used to wobbler fish on the Columbia river for fall, which we don't do anymore incidentally, and very often sitting there anchored one day. And I had a really good spot off one of the local river mouths. And it was kind of like, it was a good year, a good run. So let me think. Cause that had to be 2000. I don't think it was the big million fish run, but it was probably a 2000. I think it was 13. Yeah. Anchored up catching fish. And you guys were in Lonnie's boat, wasn't it Lonnie's boat? The purple boat. Was it purple? It was like black and blue. Black and blue. Okay. That was purple. Anyways, anchored next to me and, and shoot, we just anchored up. I was running a trip. You guys were doing your thing, but like, you know, when you're kind of in that hog line, it's definitely like a little bit of a team mentality. Like, you know, you work together, you make sure fish don't drive into the other person's lines and you clear rods and you do, you know, you do what you can. We had a, I don't know. I thought we had a reasonably good time and a super fun, you know, super fun day. We all caught fish, but I do remember you catching a lot more than us. I had a lot more rods out, a lot more rods out, but we, we all caught fish. It was good. And so long and short, uh, you know, bid farewell. Nice to meet you. Cool. See you later. And I wake up, you know, to get these spots and to do what I had to do back in those days. I had to get up, you know, fricking 2 a.m. Get out there three hours before daylight to drop our anchor ball, try to get a little sleep the night before, you know, kind of a thing and get back out there to do it all over again. And I get out there at two in the morning or some godly hour and I'm driving down the river. I'm like looking down there and I'm like, that's a set of nav lights. I'm like, who the F is sitting where I like to sit. I mean, sure enough, these guys get them like, oh, we're going to do this all over again. Huh? So Marlon stole my spot. That's how I got to meet Marlon. He literally stole my fishing spot, damn river poaching, whatever. But what ended up happening that day is we all caught fishing. Yeah. We all caught fish. We all had a great time. And I was like, really, dude, you're like two. No, I wasn't that mad about it. Cause like I said, ultimately it was really good fishing, a really good run. You know, we knew if you were in that five boat spot, you were, you were getting them. And, uh, yeah. And I think at the end of that, it was like, well, Hey, next time you go up on that old river there, this is where it was. We started winter steelhead fishing together. And it's like, son of a gun, this guy like goes everywhere. It goes everywhere. And I mean, I grew up on that river as well. And, uh, it was, uh, I think from there on, it was kind of like, I kind of realized they had it. Marlon had a kind of a good thing going, you know, technology and the game we'll call it the game. It was changing too, because I mean, ultimately like in my guide service, I mean, shoot, I've been doing, I was doing it probably nine or 10 years at that time because it adds up because it was 2000, 2004 when I got married. Yeah. It was that year, same year I got my guide license. And so, yeah, I knew that things were changing and, and, uh, you know, Facebook and social stuff was going on and you asked to do some tips and some little horrible how-to videos. We made some terrible ones, but they helped a lot of people. A lot of people gravitated towards that. And then of course, like outside of fishing addicts, Northwest, like I saw the response, you know, just with, um, you know, not even necessarily like with business response to just people on the river, like, yeah, I saw that video, you know, thank you. Like that really kind of helped. And now my daughter caught a fish and, you know, like just, you kind of built this, this, you know, there definitely was a community there and I saw it and I saw that Marlon and what he'd built. And so, yeah, I wanted to be a part of it and wanted to help out. And here we are three movies and podcast studios and fricking adventures to Florida and ICAS and trips to Alaska and everywhere. It's been a crazy Michigan. I mean, countless fishing adventures, who knows where it's going to go? A lot more plans in the works, that's for sure. And we couldn't, we wouldn't be able to do it without all you guys out there that follow us and support us. And we just really appreciate all the support and it's just been a crazy journey and I can't wait to see where it's going to go into the, into the future. I'm really excited. A lot more fun, but along those journeys, especially I think with the first movie, we found that guy sitting under the river bank. I think his hair was down to his ass at that time. Might've been. Yeah. Might've been. Was it, was it longer? I can't remember. It was definitely more tangled up. A little more dready for sure. A little more like I've been fishing 150 days straight. Yeah. Last but not least. So I stumbled in to the addicted booth at the sportsman show. I was working a booth at the sportsman show for a lodge I was working at in Alaska and it was just kind of wandering around and, and walked over and made my way down through the one side of the show that now we own the whole row, which is awesome. Yeah, that developed. And saw Marlon standing there and I was kind of just, you know, going booth to booth, talking to people and somehow I honestly don't even remember the first interaction as much. Yeah, I do. You came up to me and I remember thinking like, who the is this guy with long hair and stuff. I remember getting like pretty weird impression when you came up, but then you came up, shook my hand. You're like, Hey, I'm Jordan. You know, I guide on this river. I've watched a few of your videos. I think they're awesome. And you gave me one of your cards and you're like, if you ever want to go fishing, just hit me up. I'd love to take you guys out. That's kind of how the first interaction went. Well, I remember calling, I actually called Lonnie. I'm like, dude, this, this guy came up to me. He's freaking fish. This X river, the river we wanted to fish forever. It floats this really cool section of it. We should go fishing with him. So ultimately I think he was trying to do exactly what he did to Cameron. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's how that would have addicted. Just go steal your fishing grounds. Yeah. That is not true. And so Marlon hit me up. We planned a trip and he brought his friend. Rob came with, and we had a fantastic day and it was, I mean, it was very casual. None of the, none of the, I mean the whirlwind of the life we live now is ever a thought process. I think for any of us. Yeah. But it just so happened. I took Marlon out. We had a great day. Beautiful. Like one of the fish of the year for, for that river for me, it was 17 pounder. It was huge. It was beautiful fish. So it kind of sealed the deal. We kind of buddied out that day. Still didn't really know each other at all. And a couple of weeks went by and, and we planned another trip. He's like, well, let's come out for summer, steal him. You got to see this in the summer, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, we'd love to. And, uh, at that time I was leaving in July on 4th of July, actually to go work at this, this lodge in a particular area in Alaska, uh, for the whole summer. And I'm talking to Marlon on the phone and he goes, yo, no way. We're going to go to Alaska this summer and make a movie. And I'm like, huh? Well, that's cool. Where are you going? He goes here. I'm like, well, that's where I'm going to be living for three months. So that's pretty ironic as fate would have it. And really, I, I, I say it all the time when people go, how'd you end up here? And I say gravity. It just, all this is very natural. No, I don't feel like any of us other than working hard have tried to make this happen. It's all, I mean, other than pop-off. No, I'm just kidding. We got to hear that story. Yeah. We'll tell the pop-off story too. It's just, it's not, it's where we're supposed to be. I feel like it makes me, satisfies my mind and my heart a lot with this family that we have at Addicted knowing how it all happened. I mean, nobody got over on anybody to get here or, or, you know, hold any strings to be in the positions we are in Addicted. But anyways, they come up on a record coho year in Alaska. So a lot of you out there probably have no sense of what that actually means, but they show up and there's, I mean, more fish than any of us have probably ever seen or will see again in a, in a small river. And we made Addicted Alaska one. And that was, that was that at that point. And I came home after the end of the summer, excuse me, end of the fall, right in the beginning of October. And Marlon asked me to come and do a live feed and we did the premiere and everything for the first movie. And, but really wasn't close with everybody other than Marlon didn't really have a relationship with anybody else from Addicted. Cause honestly, at that time, it was a lot of high school friends and Cameron was involved, but a lot of the people helping out in Addicted were just good friends of Marlon's and family of Marlon's that he's known forever. That was helping keep this thing rolling. And then came into the live feed and that was my first ever on camera other than the movie that I'd really done. And it went well, me and Popov and Cam sat and talked about beads all night. Where was that? Was that in? It was in the garage. Marlon's? Garage. Not my garage. Nope. Okay. Nope. And I don't know if it was that night or, or sometime along that. So Addicted already had a YouTube channel. It was Fishing Addicts Northwest at that time. And again, B-roll type videos with a lot of music and just beat down. And that's actually how the first time I ever saw Addicted, we watched the video over and over again. It was a coho fishing video that Cameron and Marlon made. It's all about the Twitch, the one with the seagulls. Yeah. The seagulls, the seagulls, the seagulls made this happen. Yeah. This video in particular is two seagulls fight over the GoPro. In the beginning of the video, it's a lot of, yeah, I wish you could see it because my reaction is hilarious. Well, I'd never seen those drone shots and the fish in the river and blah, blah, blah. And my best friend, Phil, um, years before this, I mean, probably three, four years before I ever even talked to Marlon. Um, cause, Oh, you should check out this Addicted thing. It's, it's pretty cool. He sent me the link to the video. And at that time, I think just like anybody, I'm not going to say the word I said, but I said, that's stupid. I'm like, those guys are stupid. And the only reason I said that is because a guy, one of the Chris Calhoun, Chris Calhoun, longtime supporter of Addicted, great guy. He was hiking down a long ways every morning to beat me to some of my favorite fishing holes that I was guiding on. Uh, and he was always wearing like an Addicted hatter, but it was when he first came out with the beanies and the bait towels, it was like your first merch that you ever dropped. And he had the Addicted beanie and a bait towel. And just because of you, Chris, I'm like, I hate Addicted because this guy's Hoorah and, and walking clear the hell down here because he's Addicted and beating me to my favorite holes and staying there all freaking day. So I can't stop him fishing. Um, and so just again, like you said, just the fact that there was other people that were working that hard to get to these areas, you know, kind of had me having a grudge. Um, and, but I got to credit my, my best friend, Phil, for telling me to check out the Addicted stuff. And so back to the, what I was actually saying, I got it off on a tangent there. Uh, Marlon approached me and said, dude, you know, like what you do is just, we're having a good time and got another movie coming up. You know, everybody's starting to, to get along and build a relationship. He's like, I really want to go after this YouTube thing. I've been researching it and, and trying to figure it out for a long time. And I think I want to, I want to start posting a lot of videos on YouTube and I need somebody to help, you know, like Cameron's really busy. I don't want to do it. And I need somebody to help me with videos. And, uh, if you're interested verbatim, this is what Marlon said. I want to make you a YouTube superstar. And if you don't like that and you don't want people to know who you are and be in your life, then tell me now. And I said, let's do it. And, uh, yeah, people don't understand when you're on YouTube. You know, if you look at any influence or anyone online, like the only way YouTube works is if you let people into your life, like the people watching, they want to know you as a person, they want to know what you're about. They want to know what you're doing. And if you're not willing to do that, you're never making it on YouTube. But it just inspired me watching at that point in time of my life. Like I was guiding 200 days a year, working my butt off, trying as best as I could to make it in the fishing industry. And it was working. I was building a good reputation for myself and, and fishing kind of exclusive water, which I became popular for. And, and, but I was really impressed and kind of, um, inspired by Cameron and Marlon's ambition and how hard they worked. And that was probably the thing that made me latch on to the most was just having people around me like that, were that motivated to be successful. And, you know, it sounds the YouTube superstar thing sounds, you know, a little arrogant, but that was his mentality at the time was, I want to make this work and I'm going to make this happen no matter how much work we have to do. And, uh, and believe me, like we, at one point we were putting out like fricking what, five, seven videos. I mean, we were putting out a video almost every day at one point. Yep. Almost every sport. Thanks to SB fishing for that. Yeah. Yeah. We were putting out growing really fast. We need to do exactly what he's doing. We're posting one every day. Well, he came to me and he's like, Hey, the way I've got my channel to grow so fast is doing these 30 day challenges. And what it is, it's basically for 30 days straight, you fish and you put a video out every single day for 30 days. And when he would do that, he would see this just massive growth on his channel. And so I was like, we got to do that, but it started with tutorials and, and, you know, over years of effort, I think about three, four years now of aggressively going after YouTube. Um, I still remember the first time yeah. I remember the first time Marlon was explaining to me what video he wanted me to make as far as like tutorial and stuff. And I said, dude, I'm not going to give away a free guided trip on the internet. Tell people all this information. I mean, same mentality. I think a lot of fishermen who might not like us because they've never met us have like, Oh, I worked so hard for all this info. Um, and then slowly I started to realize like what we were doing for people and how many, you know, men, women, children that we were helping and people who were in a bad place in their life with people that just wanted to do hobby or, um, and so that's really what inspired like what we're looking at now, you know? And then, and then it kind of dawns on you that even though you tell all those people, you're still Jordan. Canigy, I was going to say something in the middle there, but you're still Jordan Canigy and you still catch all the fish you were going to catch. That's what I'll never understand. And that was my hangup. And truth be told now, after running this with you seven, eight years, whatever it is, uh, I still, I don't catch more fish than any mother ever than you, but I still catch the fish that I'm going to catch. And I still catch fish. And I realized that when I do see someone who beats me to my spot or anything like that, I usually kind of like you said, hold the grudge. But if I do see him wearing an addictive sweater, I don't hold myself a grudge. It's like, you've always taught me learn how to fish. Don't learn how to fish a spot. But no, it's, it's a, so, but it goes around and you're right. I didn't mean to stop you, but you realize like you go to even new rivers that you've never fished before. That's kind of your thing. Now you're traveling all over and you're still catching them and catching a pretty good. Yeah. The sport of fishing is a, is a powerful, powerful thing. And the lifestyle of, of fishing and sharing it with others is, I mean, but we've all kind of as a community and as a team agreed upon, like, you know, it's, it's a good thing to do. And it's a, it's a really fun activity and a lot of these guys, they can't, they'll never be able to put themselves in my shoes being, you know, a five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 12 year old kid who wanted to fish so bad and loved fishing, but couldn't. There's, there's two pieces to it too. One is that, you know, from what the brand you've developed and we've made and just how it's, how it's grown, we're definitely at the forefront of like, I'll just say attention in the Northwest. Like, I'm just going to use that word attention just because I don't have a better one. So like anybody who's seeing a new person go to the river, but by my second point, you know, anybody who sees a new person go to the river, you know, they just think, oh, well, it's probably my second point to that is those people are just selfish. You know what I mean? Like they don't realize that they don't realize that there's thousands of entities that people can get a lot of this information from. And there's, there's other things out there. They probably don't do it in the way that we do it. They just, then they need a target to, to, to cry about. Honestly, really that's what it is. And it's probably people that aren't confident in their fishing. Yeah. You know, they don't realize like, okay, yeah, you just told that guy you're mad because that guy showed up and he picked up a rod and tried, tried steelhead fishing, but you don't realize that that guy maybe has like a seven year old at home that he's going to pass it on to and get him off the video game, Xbox and get him out in the river. And that's what he's going to do tomorrow. If he finds this an inch of success out there on the river today, you know what I mean? Or however that works out, you know what I mean? It's like, it's contagious. It's contagious. It's so, so like, you don't know what some, and like, and you go back to, you know, the whole thing of the addiction stands for and stuff like that. I've been with you at, at hunt, you know, hundreds of days, either on the river sports and shows premieres where people, you know, even online where people thank you, you know, for giving you, for having a positive outlet, you know, for guys in the military kids. We, one of the comments we get all the time on our YouTube videos is Jordan is the dad I never had. And I, and that to me, like resonates so much because you guys don't understand how many kids are out there that really do fiend for the outdoors, but they don't have any way to get to it. They don't have any access to it. They don't know how to learn. They don't right. And look it we're in the age of the internet. Like, right. No, that is here or not. Don't hate the players, hate the games. If you're, if you're going to be one of those guys, it was going to be selfish. What did it for me was when we did, we were probably like three months into our live feed and somebody sent a picture of a shop in Afghanistan. And there was like 25 guys. And we were just thinking, we were just screwing off telling stupid stories in the garage. Like, Oh yeah. Five people are watching. And probably, you know, four of them are eight year olds. You know what I'm just saying? I'm just saying like, we had that, you know, we were playing with it, working it out. But then someone sent a picture of, uh, of a shop in Afghanistan. And they had a, they had a TV monitor or a computer monitor and they had a bunch of folding chairs and there was like 15, 18 guys, like literally sitting with us on the screen. And like when that one hit, that was like, Holy, there's guys that are like, and I mean, these guys away from home, you know, like, I don't know, man. So that put a whole nother, like, I don't know, I fire, if you would under, I think this addicted day, at least, at least it did for me. And at least I'm, okay. Yo, this is something that, you know, you can commit to and, and, and put out there that it really does. Uh, it could affect people's lives. Like for the positive, I'm never, please explain to me, like, because I don't get it. Like, I, I, I don't understand this mentality of like, like what you said, like, well, it's taken me 12 years or 15 years, or my grandpa taught me that. And then his dad taught me that his dad taught me that. So that's how it should be. I just don't, I don't get that. I mean, and, and to a point there are those things out there. No, there's not. But even if there is fishing, right. It's something that was probably been done since the beginning of time. Right. For any, what I'm saying is like, if the grandpa stood on that rock and then the dad stood on that rock and he teaches his son to still stand on that rock to catch that fish, like that's still there. It's cool. But the stuff that we, why hate on the dude that wants to stand next to you on the rock? Right. Because I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of selfishness. There's a lot of, of, I'm not going to say not what's, it's exactly why anglers can't unite, right? It's a narcissism. No, no, no. It's like unconfident. Like you're not, no, I can't remember the name. I'm exactly why we don't fight with each other. And we get nowhere with this because everybody thinks that that fish swimming in that river is like for me. And then eventually you catch enough fish in your life, or you take enough people on guided trips. And then you realize like, okay, sometimes it's not necessarily about killing the last one. Like, you know what I mean? And those generally, I find that those people that don't like that fish is the river thing, or any human, it's funny too. Cause a lot of our like people that are so-called haters, they like make their living in these areas that I don't even, I've never even fished in my entire life. And I would never go there because they're like shoulder. They're, they're always crowded. You know, like I can, I can think of two guys right now that I'm like, that guy is a mega hater. He constantly hates us online. And he literally stands at a hatchery and goes there every day. And that's like where he fishes. And he's like mad because we brought three more people to that hatchery or whatever. And I just, I'm never going to get lost. And I like with that right there, I'm never going to get lost in case specifics. Cause if you want to get into that, then you can blame fishing and hunting news for the last 25 years, posting maps of the fishing spots every single month. I used to get that magazine, right? Like, Oh, there was like literally maps. Right. And then everybody knows, and everybody knows what Google is right now. So, you know, what, at the end of the day, like, I don't worry about those two guys. I know. I just, what I'm saying is I never, I'm never going to understand it. And I find myself a lot of times trying to fight with those guys and get them to understand. And they just, they're never, never will. It's selfish. And, you know, the way I look at it too, is if you're going down to the river bank and you're just, I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't like seeing a million people there too, but I always just kind of like, you know what? I mean, everyone gets miffed. You go down to that secret spot or the first run in the morning and there's so many like, Oh, maybe it's like, it's not the end of the world. I'm still fishing. Yeah. I'm still walking around this river today. I'm still alive. Like, you know, it's not the worst thing in the world. So maybe make a friend next time. That's the big thing. River has brought some of the most influential and important people in my life to me. And because the river I grew up on, everybody was very friendly. I remember even when I took you that time, I stopped and you're like, you were the fish next to this guy. I'm like, can't get out and fish, dude. You know? And he's like, Oh, okay. You know? And I'm like, everybody has learned how to do that. I grew up. Like if someone's there, you don't, you roll. This was a hatchery, but regardless, we didn't even fish those kinds of spots. We just never did. We were growing up on the river. We grew up. Like you said, if someone was in the pullout, you just carried on down the road to the next one somewhere else. Well, even when we would travel around, like we just, if someone was fishing the hole, we'd go somewhere else. And that's why I, you know, I kind of learned that just naturally don't learn to learn to fish a spot, learn to fish. Like I always, when I wake up in the morning, I got 15 options. I never have one. You have to, unless I'm sturgeon fishing, then I only always have one. That's why I suck at sturgeon fishing. We're not, we're going down the rabbit hole. We're going down the rabbit hole. Well, guys, I hope that gives you guys a good little backstory. We thought we'd just kick it off into this podcast because we haven't put one out in a long time. And I see a lot of people asking some of those questions. And I know we got a lot of new viewers and listeners that don't really know those stories. So we're going to try to tell more of them as of late. We'll have to get pop off in here next and have him maybe hit man Swanson could be a cliffhanger for the next podcast. If you guys want to see pop-off and Swanson in here talking about how they got into addicted, let us know in the comments, be sure to leave us reviews on ICAST, Google play, Spotify, all those different things. Really does help us. If you guys leave reviews, thumbs ups, all those little great engagement things, we really appreciate it. And, uh, and ideas for the next podcast. Yeah. Comments, ideas for the next podcast for sure. And, uh, we appreciate every single one of you. We'll see you on the river.