What 11 Years of Parenting Actually Taught Us.

Hi everybody, welcome back to my channel. My name is Jess Hover. I'm Sean Hover. Happy to be here with you guys You guys are so cool. I never see you and now I see you. I see you loud and clear He hears a lot about you actually, especially you moms and very good mothers club. So if you're new I coach moms It's my passion and my profession you change people's lives Completely that's instantly the goal all the time. Thank you, babe. So if you are a mom who needs more support There's a link down below You'll answer a few questions and we'll figure out how we can best serve you in this season of your life We're going to talk about 11 things. We've learned in 11 years of parenting Our oldest child is turning 11 this week and our middle child is turning seven two days later So we've got two birthdays. We've learned 11 things and this video is sponsored. Hallelujah We are going to talk about grooms We are it's very fun for us because we've been buying grooms ourself for our family for years I've been bringing grooms to kids parties the other day Wilson had a class party and it was all pizza and cupcakes and candy and popsicles I brought a sack of grooms. All the kids were eating grooms. All the parents were so happy I was the life of the party life of the party grooms kids They're not just a multivitamin. Not just a green supplement and not just a prebiotic They're actually all three of those things in one little gummy bear that our kids think is a snack the taste Which is most important is very good the kids like them and I like them see what's in here. We've got mushrooms spinach broccoli Elderberry, these are things our kids are not just eating on their own Yeah, the kids don't eat that stuff and they do eat the grooms They're also methylated which means your body actually absorbs the vitamins versus them going straight through you and it's easier for your body to absorb Something that's gummy versus a tablet. No artificial sweeteners No artificial dyes who wants grooms get your grooms get your groom. What? That was mine Louise has grooms nails. Do you want to go show them? Cute so cute No Oh, that's very cute how you're ripping the head off with the little gummy bear You can get up to 52 off of your next order of grooms clicking the link below. Hooray Okay, guys, we're gonna film the rest of the video now, thanks for doing this with us Good to see you The video is all about the last 11 years of being your parents now scram being your parent. Thank you Well, not yours. You're only five. Our children are playing in their room We do not know how long this is going to last so we're going to power through the 11 things we've learned We've actually learned so many things and trying to make this list. It's sort of silly. I've only learned 11 things Yeah, sean thankfully has only learned 11 things it's not easy to do but you find activities you can do with the kids That isn't just for the kids and also isn't just for you, but where You get filled up and they get filled up and everybody's happy. Eloise was a baby I would take her down to the beach and you know, we lived in spain. So we lived a walking distance to the beach Yep, we'd go down in the stroller go to the beach. I'm getting my beach sunshine and vibe. So i'm happy She's a baby. So she's happy. She's with her dad. Yeah, uh, and that was like that version of happy place when she was a baby But then the kids when they started getting a little bit older And life is hard and isolating and it's hard to have friends and hard to find community and hard to get exercise And hard to do anything for yourself and we started going to this park. That is a skate park and a playground And a community center it's like This perfect little place where I was able to actually do some skateboarding And the kids were able to play and there were skate dads there So you not only were exercising you're making friends. These friends have become like deep friendships now Yes, the more time we spent there the more friends we made so the more friends I made the more friends the kids made so it just kept getting better and better now when we go to our happy place I get to Skate and even get some work done and hang out with my friends and the kids also get to run wild play with their friends play sports like Everybody's happy. Don't you think the shop we had a shop a couple years ago? Very good mother's club had a spot here in la where we would host moms and babies and toddlers Don't you think that was kind of their happy place? It was mine, too Like moms could come hang out with their friends and we're all passing around babies and feeding snacks to each other's toddlers And it's that thing that we care so much about of everyone getting their needs met It's not just the babies or toddlers getting their needs met, but the moms are getting their social needs met as well Yes, and that's huge probably brings us into another point which is the importance of community It will change your life. It will make your body healthier your mind healthier, but we were talking about how We knew that we've always been people people were both pretty extroverted. We've lived with people We lived in an apartment with a bunch of skateboarders. Remember that but having kids we found that we needed it more But it was much harder to find It's so weird and like for me feeling isolated was like such a unexpected experience for me because i've never felt that way before and i've never struggled with having community having friends around having like that has never been an issue for me and Once we had especially more than one kid. Yeah I was like I've never felt this before. What do I do? Like it was such a foreign thing And that's where once I found that happy place and started to make friends again And like it was such a huge life change for me Yeah, that's actually why I started the online community is because it was so hard for moms of little ones to leave their house So then they become isolated even dad's become isolated So then the online community is like a lifeline of could we just connect virtually until we can get? You know our way about us to then go connect with people in real life again I talk about this in every video. I think yeah sleep and food affect a lot. That's something we learned Well, because it feels like the problem is something else But actually it just comes down to somebody probably needs a nap and somebody probably needs a snack Somebody somebody needs grooms Yeah, I Yeah, I just believe in that so much and I talk about it a lot here I talk about how we always say hungry angry lonely tired. It's from aa They say are you hungry angry lonely or tired because if you are you're much more likely to make a bad decision I'm hungry and tired. Yeah, but i'm not angry parents parents tend to be Well parents are even angry. But yeah, I think when it comes to kids, especially We protect sleep and we protect Them eating because if they are well fed and well slept everything is so much easier Everyone will be happy everyone's happier Which I think but also but also you do a good job With the kids whenever the kids are acting crazy or not listening or just like being bad kids naughty, uh instead of Like elevating the punishments or elevating your voice and just having a scream fest and a battle and a fight I do that sometimes. Well, yeah, well we all do but You do a very good job at going When's the last time they ate right? What have they eaten today, you know, and it'll be like, oh well wilson had a dry cereal Yeah, he had a bowl of dry cereal. He's always eating a bowl of like nothing Yeah, he had a bowl of dry life cereal like three hours ago and then it's like oh, okay so like instead of turning this situation into a big fight and uh You know trying to reason with him even he's six. He's smart. But if he's hungry, there's no reasoning. Yeah, it's like, okay Let's feed him something and then he'll you know, he'll eat something that's a little more healthy a little more substantial and then He's a different person. Yeah. Yeah, and but it's probably because it's true for me too if i'm hungry or underslept I'm like the world is ending but it's so it can be hard to you know Like that's the thing with like protecting the sleep and the eating that's part of the routine thing That's what I was gonna say. Why don't we just jump to that? Yeah having routines is very important Sean specifically is not a routine guy like prior to us having children. You are the fly by the seat of your pants You know i've told you this story before I think that he on a whim booked a ticket to hong kong He just drove to the airport. This is when we flew he flew for free I didn't and you were like I have a few days to myself I'm gonna go somewhere and he just went like where can I go? I went to hong kong. I brought nothing no money No wallet, uh, just my passport my skateboard and my phone charger one day I will release the video He was like i'm gonna do this whole bring nothing experiment i'm gonna film it It's gonna be so funny and it was quite the adventure and you did film it, but he's never edited Yes, or shared the video, but that shows you like that's such a non-routine. I am So then to have children and to watch you become a routine guy That that was because of necessity the more routines we have the more than you can free flow in the margin Around when will we eat and when will we sleep and right? Yeah, the more routine you have the more freedom you have actually that's that's why I had to get a lot more routine based is because Without the good routines. I just noticed like my whole day and my whole mind and my energy is all being sucked up by Dealing with the needs of the moments and figuring out the food situation figuring out the timing of this figuring out where we're gonna go Battling with the kids like oh, what do you want to eat? I want this. I want that, you know, like just the just uh constant constant questions and constant decision making whereas if you've got the routines, it's like you've decided ahead of time and Then you don't have to put your brain there at all. Your brain can stay free for the In between yeah, that's yeah, that's routines routines is decisions are already made So then and you have to make so many decisions in a day as a parent. So yeah when you can have a Some of those decisions already figured out makes a big difference. Daddy can open it I put a random one on here. Josie needs a little help. Wait, this isn't supposed to open On the topic of him traveling to Hong Kong and Eloise was our only child because we had four years of just Eloise so life was easier Um, even though I will say when you have only one child It feels like you have a lot of children and then when you have a lot of children having only one feels way Don't you agree? I wish you could feel that in the reverse like when you have one be like, oh I only have one It's so easy, but it doesn't feel easy when Eloise was a baby all the way until she turned two We traveled so much. We worked for a non-profit that gave us the opportunity to travel. He flew for free So that meant a lot of times I was flying alone with Eloise sometimes internationally because we lived in spain But we had so much fun That's it travel as much as you can when they're under two because after they're two you will be traveling Much less unless you've got the dinero, especially if you've got five kids. We have three kids. Yeah Five flight. Yeah, anytime you go anywhere like oh, I found such cheap tickets. They're only 500 That's two thousand five hundred dollars, right? so much of my parenting experience was having to just accept the season and the stage that I was in like having a baby and my friends would be going to the movies and I remember crying being like I want to go to the movies, but I I have the freedom to go to the movies now and I hardly ever go It's less about me really wanting to go. It's more about this resistance to the stage I was in of like, oh I am locked in I have less freedom my body is needed around the clock or our marriage felt hard in certain seasons and it just was like What i've learned and what I wish I learned sooner. I think it would have made my life easier Is that if you can accept the stage you're in and accept the temporariness of it? Like realizing even now the stage that our kids are in is so sweet and it's temporary and because i'm able to accept that It's temporary. I actually can be more present and more engaged Because I know it's going to pass really soon, you know, right? Yes. It's a season I remember that definitely with the two because our two youngest are only 15 months apart and so We had two babies at once for sure and it I mean it doesn't make it any easier but just having the right perspective the bigger picture perspective of like All right. This is so insane and it's gonna be so insane For a little while. Yeah It doesn't make it easier, but it makes it it makes it More it gives you context it's like it gives I say this a lot We're like someone who's running a marathon if they don't know they're running a marathon. They're gonna feel crazy They're gonna be like why is this never ending? But if they've chosen to I haven't heard that one. Yeah, but if they know they've run they're running a marathon. There's there's a goal there's value under why they're doing it and eventually They will be resting they will have finished this stage this season this race that they're in And that's why context matters so much, right? Well because also you're always wanting to look ahead to the goal Like the the reward and if you don't know where it is If you're running a race and you don't know where the finish line is Then that's gonna be you're always gonna be like on edge and being like, oh, I hope the finish is now Oh, I hope it's now uh with with like for me with eloise when eloise was a baby, I remember one of my like goals is I cannot wait until she and I can talk and joke and laugh together Like that was one of my biggest things that I was so excited for and we do it all the time now But ever since she was a baby before she could talk I was thinking about that I was looking forward to that and so even our little moments like the time I would spend with her as a baby uh, I was spending that time like Excited for when we can joke around and laugh together. It's so cute I didn't I don't feel like we've ever talked. No, we haven't but that and now they do it That's what me and eloise do all the time late at night after the little kids go to bed Sean and her will just be out here chatting and laughing their head off It's so cute and it's yeah, it's great because also because i've gotten to help shape her sense of humor And so, you know, you're both you're laughing at the same thing. Yeah, it's so funny And so same thing with the two kids So when the two kids were so young and it was so hard It was like I am looking forward to when They can play together and the kids can play together without supervision and and where I can be more free to be myself and It's like I knew it was going to take a few years. Yeah, but still just knowing that that's coming Helps you get through the and now we're in it guys And if you have little kids you have so much to look forward to it is like my favorite part of every day It's great you think they're gonna play together and you're just gonna be so free and you're gonna be like off doing your own thing I'm, just secretly watching them being like are you serious? You guys are so cute. I'm off doing my own thing I'm skateboarding no But the other day I woke up and they were all three In eloise's bed all three kids and they were talking about how they love each other so much and when they grow up They all want to have a house together and they wish they could marry each other But instead they'll marry someone else and they'll all live together And I was just overhearing it being like you have got to be kidding me This is what we dreamt of during the early stage when it was the pandemic and these babies were so little in eloise's home And it was just so much and our marriage. It was hard. That stage was hard even sean and I were talking about how There are moments in parenting where it puts so much pressure on your relationship And it has the potential to really bring out the worst in you But that's not the best time to make a life-altering decision about your relationship and so I think even this topic of like accepting the stage of life that you're in versus resisting it is accepting that Statistically if you are in that early stage where you have like three and under a child age three two one or zero The stats are that your relationship is going to suffer more than it did pre-baby like well Yeah, it's important knowing that like even knowing that that's kind of part of having kids that's part of the stages of life because I think people know going into having kids they've heard enough about like It's hard right? It takes a lot of time and energy. You're going to be very tired, you know those kinds of things Yeah, but I think I don't think a lot of people are prepared for This may take a big toll on your relationship This your marriage may struggle like it never has before I don't I don't think I really went into it with that in mind and I don't know that it's We liked each other a lot. We I mean, I feel like we went into it almost like how could that happen to us? Right. Yeah This is so fun, you know um and so then when it does if it does not that it happens to everyone but It happens to the majority of relationships. It puts a pressure on the relationship that can make you feel really um disoriented And yeah, then it feels scary. It's like wait, did I do this with the wrong person? Does that mean my marriage is going to end in divorce? Like what does this mean for the bigger picture? And I think what we've both come to learn and through walking with our friends through ending their marriages Is um, I think generally speaking i'll make a blanket statement But if you and I were hanging out one-on-one I would ask you more questions about your life before we talked about this blanket statement is Don't make a gigantic decision about your relationship in that stage in the early parenting Exhausted, um, you've just figured out what your parenting styles are Like you've never seen him be a dad before or you've never seen him be a dad to that many children before And suddenly he's a version of himself that you don't recognize That's not the moment to decide the future of your relationship That's probably the moment that you both need to get a lot more support And probably get a lot more honest about your struggles Which took us a while if ultimately say our relationship is going to end which we we've been walking with friends Who are ending their marriages after many many years? the way for people to have the most peace about that is to Wait out some of these hard seasons and really like try your best and do everything possible So that when you ultimately ultimately make that decision you have a lot of trust in your decision making to be like, yeah I was you know, I was well slept by that point. I Have had the hard conversation. You're not sober-minded enough when you're in that stage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, that was Accepting the season you're in it's a bit of a tangent, but it really the marriage piece affects everybody, right? Um, or the relationship piece affects everybody this one matters to us a lot and has mattered as our kids have gotten older Not all screens are created equal. That's something we figured out, you know, like a kid watching a Television program on a tv that's on the wall compared to a kid Having their own tablet that they're interacting with is very different Yes So we first learned all of this when I had my podcast with lane and i'll link this episode below because we interviewed I think it's tech wise littles It's these women who study this and figure out the effects of screens on kids And they first introduced us to this idea that if you guys are going to watch screens Have it be a tv across a room that's big have it be social where you're kind of you know Speaking about what's on on the tv like oh, there's a grandma. Oh, buddy. You have a grandma Her name is whatever and it's something where it's very engaged Versus what a lot of people are doing and even we might have done this more if I didn't have this information Which is handing your child a tablet sending them to their room to go play quietly. No, that's that's the way That's what people are doing and we've now Learned a lot more about the risks of that. I'm sure you have as well but we also see the behavior change that happens with our children if they've gone to a park and somebody has a phone and they've spent Time and we didn't realize and they're scrolling short form videos on like youtube shorts And then they're having a huge meltdown is because it's so stimulating on the brain and so for us We uh appreciate screen time. We love a good movie But it's done in the main family room with us around Very regulated as far as what they're watching when they're watching it for us We don't do it in the evening because it really affects sleep badly and the only time they have access to any sort of Tablet type thing would be if we're on an airplane Flying somewhere long and then it's a very special occasion But then the moment we arrive to that destination The tablet goes away. It is not something that they use and that's because yeah, we've learned we've learned over time But that was not good. Eloise had a tablet when she was little someone gave it to her It's funny to realize we didn't really think about it much early on and no, but I think the world is thinking about it Yeah, and especially as our kids toy story 5 just came out. We haven't even seen it yet I've heard that it's good. Yeah, and we work in social media So if you're wondering how we're going to handle social media with our kids Um, I just hope they stay as far away for as long as possible. Yeah, no, it's horrible. Okay. Um It's horrible and i'm saying that as an adult who uses social media. It affects my brain so bad We don't like we don't like social media We don't so we'll see you on social media because that's one that you uh that you kind of gave me uh that you imparted to me because for me, you know growing up it's all about like the easiest way To do the thing it's like efficiency. Yes being efficient and cost effective and so like sometimes making memories requires being a bit frivolous, uh, you know, like taking a short family vacation the amount of Work that goes into that for a full family is so much. So you're spending so much money so much time so much effort you're exhausting yourself so that you can go and Relax for a couple of days, right? And it it doesn't seem worth it But then you were the one that kind of gave me this context of like the importance of making memories so then kind of just changing my mindset from like What's the easiest cheapest way to accomplish the goal and instead of being like? How can we create a lasting memory right? And just you say that I did it which I have talked about this a lot But I think what really brought this home for us was the fact that the kids talk all the time About the memories that we've created. They don't talk about the random stuff we do on any given day they talk about the stuff that we really put our effort into we took the time to decorate the room or we Took the time to pack everything to go to the beach and they talk about the beach day Like the thing that cost us more time more effort more money Is the bigger experience for them and even for us that's like, uh, like disneyland, you know I would never be like, yeah, let's go to disneyland and spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on Havings of some fun i'm like I have more fun going to the local park and it's free, you know But it's like it's not about what's more fun It's about creating a memory and when you go to disneyland you create a lasting memory. Yeah I don't like disneyland. I don't want to go there. I Not fun for me Sean's really good at being frugal and making sure we don't go into debt and all of that So all of this is balanced with make memories, but also don't torture yourself with well Actually, that's why when we when we did go to disneyland for the first time we sold Eloise's artwork in order to raise money for Art when she was little thank you so much that sent our whole family to disneyland And that turned out to be a lasting memory that eloise still talks about a lot She does and not even just the disneyland experience She talks a lot about the fact that she sold her artwork to to buy tickets to disneyland and like she's really proud of that Yeah, i'm so proud of that too raise dad's help So when we had eloise first baby, there was this thing of like I have to do it. I have to breastfeed I have to be up with her all the time. We have to do it the most natural way I shouldn't give her a pacifier because that might throw off breastfeeding and everything was this I don't know this pressure that I had to do it The way I heard other people were doing it or like the most natural way And then there's no secret. I I became super depressed like it It took a while for me to realize what had happened to me to go and get the help we needed blah blah blah So when we had wilson, we went about it entirely different. I still did things Very naturally like wilson was like giving birth to him naturally and he was 10 pounds No without medication. It's what he means. Yeah. Yeah with jules. She went straight epidural. No, I didn't She's going straight up. I did get an epidural and i'm so thankful and I was way faster to get an epidural But I did try for a while. That's crazy. It took you a third kid to realize the epidural was So helpful um If I had known with wilson by the time wilson was coming like he was almost out of me There's video. Yeah, you're like no one should ever have babies or something I've never posted the video, but my sister's filming it and she's cracking up. I'm like nobody should have kids And I said, can I have a glass of wine? They're like, no, he's almost out. Um, anyway, uh, oh, yeah but when wilson came our priority became Taking care of him and my mental well-being and in doing that We looked for a lot more ways for you to help for other people to help I pumped so that he could do a bottle feeding at night with jules. She needed formula She was premature. So we went through a whole feeding thing with her and we still emphasized. Um, Allowing other people to help me specifically So and then you thanked me I remember at some point he came to me and was like wow Thanks for letting me do this bottle feeding thing with wilson. I feel like it's helping me bond with him as a baby It's so cool to have this experience of feeding a baby. And so yeah, I just think Moms, we know we need help, but it's very hard to receive help It's very hard to ask for help something I hear with the moms and very good mothers club Is that being in a group of friends who all care about that? It has made them more bold capri was just saying recently that when she had Her second baby. She invited her husband husband's friends to come over and watch her son She was like I was so bold I just reached out and was like I need somebody to watch my toddler so that I can take care of my baby Will you my husband's friends? Come and pick up my toddler and she was like I never would have done that if you guys weren't advocating for me to ask for help and um Yeah, well because yeah, sometimes there's like a thing like oh, I can't ask for help. I have to be a super mom I have to do everything and you feel like what help can I even ask for? I don't know how to delegate i'm barely i'm barely figuring this out myself How do I tell someone what else to do? Well, I guess that's a good message for dads to figure out kind of figure out ways to do that So figure out ways to get support that gives the mom more sleep Yeah, right like so if you can like even for the lightens her mind Yeah, like even for the dad like if you can take one bottle feeding Yes in the night like to give the to give the mom a Even if it's not give her a full night's sleep, but give her some stretch of sleep, you know Like something also because sometimes moms don't want to hand over things to the dad because their style is so different the way you take care of my kids is so different than the way I Take care of my kids. I actually think you're better at taking care of the kids than I am to be honest You're so good at it but um, but I there were moments where we had to learn and there were moments where I would be frustrated with the way you were Doing things because it wasn't the way I was doing it and I had to really understand for myself I want my children to grow up being shaped by you It's almost like they're a canvas and I don't want the only paint on that canvas to be mine. I love Your paint and I want you to paint the kids. I want you to it's the most romantic thing Yeah, right, but I like I want you to help shape them. I want you to make them more brave I want you to make them more laid back in the ways that i'm not and I have been doing those things Um, so I think there is also something to like dads need to step up and really help or the co-parent whoever it is but then moms Needing to surrender a little bit of the control to be like i'll let you parent in the way that you parent Even if it's different than mine, you know, yeah. Yeah I don't remember what that point was but I know that it's that uh culture like think about how you want your family to be and then be bold about Being like guys, this is how we are as a family. We are like this Yeah, like we're a team, you know, like your family is one big team something that has helped me so much With parenting is from the beginning I have had like a core belief that there is Nothing more valuable. I can give my children than my time and attention and so more than money like more important than career Is the time and attention i'm able to give my kids so just for me Elevating that above everything else was very important and Helped me to be the kind of dad that I wanted to be And I think that we're seeing the fruit of that like that was that's such a a stage specific Value because as they get older they're in school or they're in sports or they're in theater or whatever And and they're very peer-oriented as they get older. So they actually want less of your time They want more of their friends time, but when they're little they want your time and you have the decision We have the decision to prioritize time with them at the cost of other things or prioritize time with corporate america Sean sean and corporate america are always uh, but Uh, no sean was never a corporate guy But you have this decision of like do I prioritize my career at the cost of spending time with them or vice versa? And for you it was always very clear In this stage of life, they will get my time and attention to the best of our ability yeah, and well and part of why that was clear is because you were clear from Since we got married that you Didn't want to be the stay-at-home mom that you wanted to work. And so, you know like so for me it was kind of like Okay. Well, then i'm going to be with the kids because like that's the most important thing You're like, yeah, and I'm so excited from what I met him Uh, but the way we've done it has been very flexible as far as the work that we have because it's very much juggling Kids and passing them to and fro. Yeah, there's a lot of stress that comes along with trying to figure out how to survive and make money and also care for the children and schedules and yeah, that's I guess that's why it was so important for us to have routines is because we You know, we didn't have the built-in work routine that was You know, it's not like we're both just working nine to five and then we come home and do the evening It's like we're having to structure the whole day and how can we both work and how can we both? You know, it's like very tricky. We should tell them about the financial The reason why this is worth mentioning is because there really was a cost to this decision And it is that we've been stressed financially. And so, uh, there's we've always been taking care of it's all been fine But there really has been this thing of like, okay. How do we do this? How do we prioritize taking care of the kids when the stresses of life are expensive? And so now that our kids are getting older and we're seeing the good things that have come through So much one-on-one time with them, right? It feels worth the financial stress that we've experienced and now as they're getting older we can We can pursue jobs in corporate america. Yes My motto was like I just know there's no chance that later in life I'm gonna look back and regret spending so much time with my kids, you know, like no It probably would have been harder for us if we had really solid careers. Yeah Yeah, it's not like it's not like we had much of a should I be a dentist a doctor? We're like, what are we gonna do for work? Yeah, I wasn't like, okay i'm leaving my high-paying Law firm job or something. Yeah, the people watching this are so successful and we're like, you know what? Yeah, it's very easy. It's very easy to choose your kids over your career when your career is uh Not very existent to begin with Anyway, all we're saying Is you're better than us and we're proud of you i'm a pro skater Stupid yeah Okay, guys, you were doing so good. I think that's all I don't know if that was 11, but we're over time Those are the 11 things we learned from 11 years of parenting We are really excited that you're here If you do need more support in motherhood click the link below fill out the questionnaire I would love to help you in this stage of your life And if you want more of sean hoover, you can follow him on instagram If you want more of me i'll be here and sometimes on instagram though I'm having a love hate relationship with instagram right now Nobody likes instagram. Okay. Thanks so much. If there's anything you more if there's anything If there's anything more you want to see or hear from sean leave it in the comments We'd love to hang out with you and we love you and we love you. You're beautiful as ever. Okay. Good job at life. Bye Thanks, babe