How to Spot a Psychopath: Lessons From Real Cases

We had the best time doing the initial breakdown of the body language and behavior in this video, and we decided we'd revisit some of our favorite moments from it. The other three say they were trying to get you to run away, but that you emphatically insisted that your family be killed. That's what they all say. Isn't that the truth? All right, I'll go first on this one. This is pretty scary. I mean, the music behind it's pretty scary, but when you look at this girl and she looks up that slowly like that, holy smokes, and that's what I'm talking about. It looks like a robot. We're seeing a little micro expression here too. I think she's trying to hold back a smile. I think she's trying to push her mouth down so she doesn't smile. This is creepy stuff here, and those eyes, those blinks are real slow. This is what I'm talking about. Something's not right in there. Something's not firing correctly or fully with her. It matches her intellect, I think, at this point because I don't think it's running shiny and everything as well. I think there's not a whole lot to say from my perspective on that except for I think she's trying to hide a smile in there. We'll see that a couple of other times too. All right, Greg, what do you got? I think this girl is a ball of anger, a real ball of anger that's just been contained, and that's the relationship she has with the parents or school or whatever. I'll bet when she's with her friends, she's chatty Cathy. She's one of those kind of folks. I think she's a lot more animated than we see here. I think this is the organism has learned how to deal with authority or whatever authority is, and she's balled up in there. That crack, I think what you're seeing, Scott, is a crack in that. Yeah, I think that's the emotion she has is anger. That's what I sense in her, and it's just sense. I see a little forehead involvement. Her eyes close when he says that. It's what they all say. She doesn't close, and she doesn't do much of that. I've interrogated people like this before, and they seem calm until you touch the right button. Then the next thing you know, you're defending yourself because they come across the table. They come unbuckled. I don't think this girl, I think her whole life she's that tall. I think her whole life she's probably not been that violent person, and she found a way to be that violent person. That's what I see when he's talking to her, and he's looking down at the notes to watch her. She focuses on that. She's focused on the notes. The notes are the bad guy, not him. She doesn't even say anything this time. She's up front of mouth talking, trying to assuage him or calm him down so he doesn't come after her. I just think she's a ball of horrible stuff inside there. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, Greg, I totally agree with you. I think we're going to see some of this later, but what I think we're seeing here is that she's learned to use power by proxy over the course of her life. I think the shift in Phil's demeanor here to become more paternal, more serious, finger down on the table has caused some of this regression and this kind of upward eyebrow movement, this innocent voice, innocent appearance is literally what kept her safe probably growing up and literally what she used to wield her power growing up. I teach four laws of human behavior. The number four law of my four laws is that every adult is a product of childhood suffering and reward. She used that behavior to get out of suffering and to gain some kind of reward in her family life and her social life. I think this is as good as it gets. This is an amazing clip that Scott, I was going to go into that stare and you described it a lot better than I probably could have. Keep in mind, there's no positive denial when he's asking the question. I think Phil was a little bit to do with this regression, but we see the beginnings of another hallmark psychopathy trait here and this is in the official book. It's called PIM or positive image management and this positive image management, she doesn't care about committing the crime. She wants you to know that it was someone else's idea and she's still a good person. She's the type of person who will forget her shoes, but not her little dog and she's going to pet the dog the whole time on the way out. So this is positive image management is what we're seeing here. Mark? Yeah, so I think we see a couple of things happen here. I think the slow blink again is acceptance. I think that is her acceptance of the idea put forward that she was more involved than she's saying she is and that Dr. Phil's accusations are correct. Now, he has become an accuser at this point. He's become a persecutor. She now, because there's only one real place for her to go, which is to become the victim. I mean, she could start to persecute back, but that's not the role that's ever got her what she wants. So she reverts back to childlike innocence and we see that with the eyebrow raise. She lowers herself. She looks up to Dr. Phil's eye lines so she can make him the dominant male and her the subordinate female and child and therefore cause us, the viewers, and potentially Dr. Phil to go, oh, but it's just an innocent child. Why would she do anything? And to Greg's point earlier on, I think that's the role that has often got her what she's got. To Chase's point, it's got her away from the punishment and it's got her some prizes at some time. Now, it appears from her background, I haven't really investigated this hugely, so you can put in the comments there how incorrect I am. It appears from the little background that I looked into that though everybody's house can have all kinds of dramas going on, potentially, and she says it herself, her house was not full of a lot of drama for her. Often we find in a sociopath that they are kind of created by the environment around them and so looking into her environment around her, it doesn't, it seems kind of okay. She said herself it was pretty nice, though why would we believe her? Maybe we shouldn't. So really it does edge her towards there being something fundamentally different about the way her brain is structured, not a result of society and therefore sociopathic, having a disorder that is troubling to other people. That's the thing about antisocial behavioral disorders. They're antisocial because everybody else doesn't like them, and that's why the DSM, I mean, great book, but often it has to change because, for example, narcissism, looking at your own image quite a lot. Well, hang on, we do that with our phones all the time. So as society changes, we have to adapt our ideas of what behavioral disorder is, but this one doesn't change too fundamentally, I would say. There, that's what I got for you on that one. The other three say they were trying to get you to run away, but that you emphatically insisted that your family be killed. That's what they all say. Isn't that the truth? Have you ever had a moment late at night, it's like 11 30, you're lying in bed and you notice like a weird symptom, so you do what probably none of us should really do and we start googling it, and suddenly you're 10 tabs deep, fully convinced that something is seriously wrong. The idea of calling a doctor in the morning, sitting on hold, waiting weeks for an appointment just obviously makes us put it off again. What I wish I'd done instead is just book a real doctor, someone in network that's available really soon and who actually felt like a really good fit for me. That's the reason I use ZocDoc, today's sponsor. It is a free app and a website where you can find and book in-network doctors from over 150,000 providers across all 50 states, from primary care and dermatology to dental and eye care. You can read verified patient reviews, choose in-person or video visits and see real-time availability and book instantly. No phone calls, no waiting. Most appointments happen within 24 to 72 hours and sometimes even the same day. So if you're ready to stop spiraling and actually take care of it, go to ZocDoc.com slash TVP. The link is also right down in the description and book a doctor who listens, understands and supports you. Back to the show. You ripped it up. Yes. Didn't you think it might be important to save it to show the cops and the detectives in fact I am still being threatened by these two people who allegedly committed this crime? Yes and I absolutely regret that. These notes came within days of my arrest and I think still that I was just very scared for my family and it's only now that I'm speaking out about this because I just need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way because I decided to do, obviously a little late, but I decided to do the right thing and then tell what I knew because by, you know, the reason I'm sitting here is because I didn't do the right thing, is because I didn't go to the police right away. I didn't call 9-1-1 right away. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to a neighbor's house. Mark, you want to go first? Yeah. So the first thing I really, really love is about halfway through the incredulity in the interviewer's eyes. Is she really going that way? Is that, is this really what's happening right now? It's just brilliant, it's just genius. The other thing I love in this one is when, is when Arius kind of just goes back in her chair wide-eyed and goes, yes! Yes. The cops. Yes, like I knew I should have done, brilliant, brilliant idea. I knew I should have done that. Again, just trying to make a connection with her, just trying to make a connection and go, that is brilliant. I should have done that. I knew at the time I was thinking the way you're thinking, but gosh, not quite like you're smart. I'm smart. I'm not quite as smart as you right now, but we're both smart. So always trying to play and make those connections. Then we get, we get these eyes down, but she keeps on locking eye contact on the things she really wants that interviewer and the audience to really know, which is scared for my family, the idea of faith, the Lord, the right thing. Says it twice again and locks eye contact, the right thing, police right away. So she's now locking eye contact to try and enforce some ideas, especially this idea of a, of a, of a higher power, you know, and, and doing the right thing. And the only reason that she's there is because she did the wrong thing. But now she's in fear for her family's life because she's doing the right thing. And she has faith that God would not punish the repentant and the righteous. And that ultimately is what she's trying to do there is to say, I'm being repentant and righteous now. And therefore my faith is in God that he would never punish that. And therefore, anybody who is, you know, believing in God or religious in that way, you wouldn't punish me either, because this is now, you know, the work of God, repentance and righteousness. It's extraordinary. It's kind of brilliant. But again, the interviewer quite rightly is there incredulous at the angle that she's taking on this. What a, what a performance, what a Yeah, so I think we're, we're seeing this again. She's saying the words, and I regret. And I absolutely regret. And what comes right after? That these notes came within days of my arrest. So there's, I regret, or I'm ashamed of, or I'm embarrassed about. Let me give you some evidence. And I'm embarrassed about it, but there's some evidence because it has to be true if I'm making some kind of confession of personal admission here and opening up to you. So this whole thing is evidence management, perception management, and story management is all we're seeing here. I decided to do, obviously a little late, but I decided to do the right thing. Let's think about this. It's the same story she did with calling the police after she encountered the, saw these people attack. She didn't call the police right away. She got the letter. She didn't call the police right away. So we're seeing a very similar storyline. And if you watch the last one second of the video, the last one second, you'll see Duper's delight. The left side of her face tightens up, the cheeks raise up and the lower eyelids raise. And it is the quickest micro expression I've ever, I think I've ever seen analyzing a video. I watched it a few times and I had my iPad just like three inches from my face trying to watch it, but it's there. And she fits the sociopath criteria perfectly, except for one thing, past behavior younger than the age of 15. She hits all of these major indicators from the DSM-5, which is the psychology manual to diagnose a mental disorder. Past behavior before this incident, unless there's something drastic that we don't know about yet, she fits all of that. And maybe that shows us a weakness in the DSM, in the diagnostic manual for psychology, but maybe this thing is some thing that's going to show us that there's something else going on, which I think is borderline personality disorder. Again, I'm not making a diagnosis nor am I qualified to do so, but I'll leave it at that. And Greg. Yeah. So here she's closing the loop. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think she has made contact and she thinks this woman is bought into her. She's reeling her hands what she thinks. Now she, if she thinks that she clearly cannot read body language because I agree with you, Mark, right there, disbelief is all over her face. Like, really? This is what you got? But she runs down this whole thing and then she does something I could not have imagined possible. She went from this chaff and redirect and all this to holy ground. You need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way. She's become what I call a stancer, what we call a stancer in our true crime workshop case. Remember, stancer is a person who's going to take a holy ground stance because God is my witness. I didn't do that. Boom, boom, boom, boom. She takes holy ground and she comes up. So now she's used stancer, trancer, romancer. She's used insulator. She hasn't used prancer yet, but she'll figure that one out yet. I'm sure because she's got lots of strategies up in that head of hers. You notice that this is really what I think you're seeing. She does an eye block and then makes eye contact again. That's the connection. She thinks now I've got this woman. Again, I think she's missing that this woman doesn't believe her story, but she believes that she's falling for it because it's worked for her so many times before. All of us, every one of us talking to you and you included, are simply a creation of things that have been successful in the past. You get your knuckles wrapped enough times you don't do things unless you are into having your knuckles wrapped. But if you are rewarded for something, like you get candy every time you do something, it just becomes part of your repertoire and it compounds and compounds. To Chase's point, sometimes it compounds in very negative ways and into pathologies that maybe we don't even know what all of them are. When we talk about borderline personalities, those are close to pathologies and those kinds of things. We can't diagnose her, but what we can say is I've talked to a lot of people like her in my past and they always try something like this until you get them to the point where they go, you lied to me. Once you bust them and you tell them something and then you use what they tell you against them, they get really, really angry usually afterward. That's what I'm seeing here. Who's next? Is it Scott? What I'm getting out of this is as she's going along, as she tries to keep up with these people who interview her, she tries to become that person. She reflects back. She's using the classic, yes and, and that's what you do in improv. No matter what somebody says, yes and, and you add something to it. Right out of the gate, she says that as part of her first answer, yes and. Then she starts creating, again, this story going along. Y'all have covered most, just about everything I've got. Then again, the classic of falling back on religion, like Mark was talking about, just goes right back in there. Don't get me wrong. I, like I always say, I believe in God. We're very tight, you know, and Jesus loves you, but I'm his favorite. So as we, so as I tell you about this, that's, that's where I'm sitting on. So as she goes in, it's the classic. I know I did wrong. Like exactly what you're saying, Mark. I know I did wrong, but now I should be forgiven because I realized my transgression. I know what I've done. I see what's happened here. That's the classic. You sin and then you pay the penance for, for that sin. That's what's going on. She's saying, so I'm paying that now because, and like, it's not going to be any big deal. That's why I'm in trouble. Shoot. They're going to figure it out because I just did this over here. It's no big deal. That's actually what I did. Not that big a deal when it's actually, I've got a shot getting out of there. You know, we know that now, but even then you can see it on her. She's, she's really not that sure, but man, she's trying to sell that. She's going to get out, but that's where we're ending up that she's showing. It's the classic. I've learned my lesson and I'm not going to do that anymore because I am right. And I am a good person. I just did this one thing wrong over here. So that's what I get. Yeah. I think you guys, what you just said ties together nicely because what Chase is saying, she's trading guilt, you know, she's trading down, she's giving you less, something less guiltful, and then she's trading it off saying, look, I did make a mistake and, and then giving you that guilt and saying, my family doesn't deserve to be punished for this. And we'll hear that again later. Yeah. And if, if you're at all interested in what Greg was talking about for what worked for somebody in the past, and this is how all of our habits are formed, whether or not you want to go to the gym more often or eat healthier, all of those things, it happens right around this spot right here in the brain. There's a little spot called the nucleus accumbens and the nucleus accumbens is a dopamine memorizer. It says I did this before it worked out and I got some dopamine from that. So I'm going to force the brain to do that again. And it runs dopamine through a channel right here called the ventral tegmental pathway or the ventral tegmental area. And that goes back and forth in the limbic system and forces a cycle that even at the age of eight or nine, if a behavior worked, you're more likely to repeat it. Even at the age of 55, sitting in an interrogation room, you'll do the same thing that worked for you when you were young because of that little spot called the nucleus accumbens. If you want to go look it up. And it doesn't matter whether that was a bad or a good thing depends on whether you perceived it as a good thing. Right. And that's why we love our phones so much because we get that feeling that searching out, finding the thing, and we keep going back to it and going back to it and go back to it. The like thing, all that stuff is based on what Chase was just talking about. If you're into that kind of thing, again, yeah, Google that. It's a fantastic study. So go like what we're talking about and you'll get a reward. You ripped it up. Yes. Didn't you think it might be important to save it to show the cops and the detectives? In fact, I am still being threatened by these two people who allegedly committed this crime. Yes. And I absolutely regret that. These notes came within days of my arrest and I think still that I was just very scared for my family. And it's only now that I'm speaking out about this because I just need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way because I decided to do, obviously a little late, but I decided to do the right thing and then tell what I knew because by, you know, the reason I'm sitting here is because I didn't do the right thing. It's because I didn't go to the police right away. I didn't call 911 right away. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to a neighbor's house. If I had shot my own children, would I not have done a good job of it? Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears? That's insane to think that I would do such a thing and then bring the witnesses in against myself. That's crazy. I love this one. If you want to talk about an embedded confession, this is a dumb person embedded confession. She's saying, look, I would have thought this out and I would not have made it look like something dumb. That's evidence that it's real. How does that possibly even cross your mind when you're sitting up and thinking this, this just proves they're not all smart. They're not all super geniuses. She's not, she's dumb and she's a psychopath. We got that. Both of those things figured out. Now there's anger. At the one point she's challenged. If you look at her challenged, she sets her jaw, her lower teeth are exposed. She narrows her mouth into a pursing move. She makes hard eye contact and her voice changes to terse and her tone changes and her cadence changes. She's telling, that's insane to think that I would do such a thing and then bring the, the witnesses in against myself. That's crazy. And here's the one interesting thing. There's a study that says that psychopaths pupils don't dilate to negative emotions. Ding, ding, ding. Look at this. No movement whatsoever. So there's another, another instance we're looking for. She starts illustrating with her brow and brow beating with her forehead to make the point. And then she does this kind of throwaway word or Scott, that's crazy. Well, cause she doesn't like that word. There are a couple of others. She's more animated when she's angry than she is telling you a story about her children being killed. There's something wrong with this right out the gate. Chase, what do you got? So we have more audio book narration. There's this, she's speaking as if she's reading like an Ikea furniture assembly instruction guide. That's insane to think that I would do such a I think it's important here to note that she's mentioning insane and crazy in the same little sentence, which could be a hint at her subconscious thinking about what a defense strategy might be or what a future defense might be for her. And there's an eye flutter, which means her eyes are blinking rapidly, both at the moment she says insane. And at the moment she says crazy, which is a huge red flag. But overall throughout this whole video, there's a lack of denial. And keep in mind, one of the famous things that I like to talk about is the vanishing perpetrator. And it's all here. This is defense versus providing information. And that's one of the biggest things that you can ever look at talking to anybody. Is there a defense or are they providing information? It's a huge difference and anybody can hear that. It's interesting. There's a chin tuck. Chin goes down at the moment. She's saying that's crazy. We tuck our chins down out of a protective or fearful response, but she's planting all of these questions and trying to use those to kind of change your mind. I had shot my own children. Would I not have done a good job of it? Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears? This is sometimes effective in other scenarios. And because in all persuasion and influence, this includes interrogation. This includes doing a TV interview with a psychopath. Your primary resource is focus. Above all else, capturing the ability to capture someone's focus is number one. And focus is driven by questions. Questions are the steering wheel for focus. And I think that she's somehow unconsciously absorbed this over her lifetime and she's using this questioning thing to drive what you're focusing on. Why didn't all of these things happen and why didn't this add up? Questions drive focus. That's all I got. Mark, what do you think? Yeah. So emphatic non-contractions going on there. That's when the words don't get shorter. They're full length and actually maybe even elongated. So they become very emphatic. I not have done a good job of it. Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? For me and anybody who, like me, grew up as a kid in the 70s, it sounds like Texas instruments speak and spell. I don't know whether anybody else remembers that. But I used to love that thing because I was particularly bad at spelling. And I thought, that's amazing. That thing can spell, you know, and it would go spell regulator, R, E, G. You had a fantastic way of getting itself around these words. So it reminds me of Texas instruments speak and spell. So it's quite, I guess, mechanical. And again, that puts us off because it feels very inhumane, feels very unhuman. That's going to make us stand away from her and go, oh, I don't like this. Now, in this case, we have every right to. But again, if somebody speaks like this, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're psychopathic. There could be a whole bunch of reasons why they don't contract. And they're quite emphatic about some elements of it. There is a sense there of indignation. You see that she lowers her head with anger. So look, this idea that might be propagated that anybody with antisocial behavioural disorder or psychopathy doesn't feel emotions. Yeah, they can absolutely feel emotions to some extent. Okay. They just don't feel them when we would expect them to feel them. That's why they're antisocial in order to be part of society. You need to feel remorse at certain times. You need to feel anger at certain times. You need to feel sorrow or happiness at certain times. These may be limited or just in the wrong place to exist within society. So they become outsiders of that society, antisocial, not part of the social network. So I think we do see anger in her. That's that's an emotion. The head lowers for anger. And it's indignation. I've been I'm being wrongly found out or accused here. It's insane to think that I would do such a thing and then bring the witnesses in against myself. Single shoulder shrug on bring the witnesses against myself. So I don't think she believes that she ever brought witnesses against herself. My guess is, though I don't know, they showed up anyway, without that. This is an element of being grandiose, which is to say that you can take the things that should be against you and say, actually, I caused that thing to happen. I caused the witnesses to show up. That's my good. I can choose. I can choose my pain. I can choose what happens to me. So elements of grandiosity. Scott, what do you got? All right. Well, I'm going to go through three more from the from the hair psychopathy checklist. And so you'll have an idea of how many are on there and how to go about checking or talking to someone. I'll put a link below to somewhere you can go find out about that. And there'll be some books and stuff there as well. Some links to books. Now, first thing we see again is that shallow effect. There's no emotion there. No emotional. Not only because she can't do it. She doesn't know how to do it. So that's number one is a shallow effect. The second we see again is the grandiose sense of self where she says, wouldn't I have done this right when I've done it the right way? Would I not have done a good job of it? Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears? She's assuming we think she's brilliant. And she's because obviously she thinks she's pretty smart because she knows she would have done it the right way. Well, obviously she wouldn't because she didn't. So she didn't think that out. Robert Harris is a psychopath is a cunning, usually intelligent intraspecies predator. And in this case, we're seeing that, but she's not intelligent. This isn't a very smart person at all. And we're going to see that get worse as this goes along. Another one is the pathological lying that we're seeing. And she just keeps going and going and going. And she adds things on, as you'll see, as we go along to this story as well. There's things she didn't tell when she first got in trouble that she tells later on when she's in prison and trying to get paroled and tell them what the story was, things like that. So she's adding these things to that. In the first video, we heard her say I six times. This goes back to that, to be, it's all about her. Everything is about her. It's I, me, nothing about her children. And we wouldn't want her children to mention very small, nothing emotional toward that. And in this case, we're hearing her say I five times. That's a lot of, that's a lot about her. That's all about her. And when you hear someone talking like that, that you run into at a bar, then you feel like you've just met this person who is a kindred spirit with you. And you say, oh, this is wonderful. You get along with them great. And they say, you know what, man, you're awesome. I think you're great. I like what you do. I like you. And I think you're fantastic. And it goes on and keep building up and you feel great about that. Well, after you leave there, you'll have this weird feeling like, why don't I feel completely awesome about that? There's something not right here. That's when you go, wait a minute, something's up. When you leave a person that does that and you feel fine, everything's great. That's one thing. But when you go back home and you're sitting there, or you're in your car driving back, or you're sitting at home, you're laying in the bed thinking about, you think that was fun, but that still makes me feel a little bit odd. Because your brain is seeing things, which I've gone through a thousand times, that you're not really picking up yet. And that weird gut feeling you're getting is going to come to you later on when you're in the shower, when you're driving. There's something not right about that person. That's when it's going to hit you. So listen to that little feeling. To be safe, if you meet somebody and it seems perfect, but it seems too perfect, it probably is. So be careful with that. Not all people are like that. Not all people are going to be nice to you and say these wonderful things. A lot of them may mean it. But when you leave there and you have that odd feeling, something's just not right, remember, something's just not right. So that's three more from the list. They're all but the pathological lying are from what we covered before. So we're getting a pretty good read on her so far from a psychological perspective from the hair psychopathy checklist. You good? Hey Mark, one add to what you said. Hair said that they are capable of sudden burst, shallow and dramatic of emotion, but they are not long lasting and there's no depth. So yeah. Yeah. Same thing with histrionic. Yeah. You know, so that's, that's the odd part here. We're seeing sort of a combo in a couple of places. I had shot my own children. Would I not have done a good job of it? Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears? That's insane to think that I would do such a thing and then bring the witnesses in against myself. That's crazy. So if I went to one of the centers and I got a pinprick and I only gave that much blood, right? What tests are you currently able to perform for that blood using anything other than commercially available lab equipment? So we have never used commercially available lab equipment for finger stick based tests. Every finger stick test that we have ever done uses proprietary Theranos technology that is not commercially available right now because we're at a moment in time in which we've decided to transition from the lab framework to the FDA framework. I think about this kind of like if you have cars driving on a road and you say, okay, I'm going to take everybody from driving on the right-hand side of the road to the left-hand side of the road. The only way to do that is to pause, right? Cut over. And so as a result, because we have voluntarily decided not to use our nanotainer tubes until we cut over to the left-hand side of the road, which we now have the FDA quality systems in place to do this. We are not collecting the finger stick sample for anything except for HSV. That has nothing to do with what we can run on our devices in our lab. It has nothing to do with our tests. It has nothing to do with our testing methodology or the accuracy or performance of it. All right. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So I'm just going to say two things here. A lot of suppression gestures now, which I think you guys would call regulators and I would call moderators because these specific regulators are about her moderating the conversation and just saying, look, stop that. I think she's really on the back foot now. She wants this to stop because he's been really specific about that. He's literally going, well, if I get a pin and I prick a little bit of blood, like, what can you actually do with that? He's managed to narrow it down. And so she's now got to explode it up now, got to reject his premise and explode it up into some kind of word lasagna in order that we won't be able to see where the lies are, essentially. So lots of nods, lots of looks to approval, nothing new there. The only other thing I'd say is there's a lovely, for her, quite big downturn of the mouth right at the end of this. I think she spends a lot of time serving up this word lasagna and at the end of it, she's like, oh, that was, I don't think she's pleased with herself at the end of this one. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, that last one, I'm with you, it's in my notes. There's a change in her mouth at the end that is uncharacteristic and there's a request for approval at the same time, kind of that. So you can't miss that she knows she's not delivered well there. She starts off, if you notice her head movement here, remember I talked about frequency, but also how much movement she has. The amount of movement is much lighter and much more rapid. So that's an indicator, as you said, it's an adapter, it's a way to release nervous energy. And so she's really nervous and she's, frequency is moving up and the amount she's moving her head has decreased. I love the fact she picks up his word anchors and chaffs like nobody's business. Meaning when we say chaff and redirect, we mean like a plane spraying all this chaff out the back to make a missile follow. He says something, she picks up on a word commercially available or a term and she runs away with it. Commercially available lab equipment. So we have never used commercially available lab equipment for finger stick based tests. Every finger stick test that we have ever done uses proprietary Theranos technology that is not commercially available. And when she does that, in fact, she does a little lip grip when she says commercially available, which means withholding information or emotion. As she gets to the message and she gets down into this chaff and redirect, then her hands start to come up and she starts to talk. She does a two-handed defense. She's doing regulators, as you were saying, Mark, to control the conversation. My favorite is I'm going to regulate you and point out how good I am at the same time. That's one of my favorites I've seen a long time. That's a hell of a lot of arrogance to do that to somebody. When you put your hand in someone's face and then talk about yourself, that's a hell of a lot of arrogance. And that's what I got. Chase, what do you got? Wow. We thought you were going to go to profundity. Oh, man. I was waiting on that. I was getting so good about not doing that. Sorry, guys. Sorry, Scott. I know you have to edit all this out. Oh, yeah. You think I'm going to edit that out? It's not going anywhere, especially since you said it. All right. This nodding that she's doing is killing me. I can't take this nodding behavior. So one thing that we see here is she is acting like a nano explainer and not just a nano tainer. That didn't even get Scott. I think just carry on and see how long you can possibly hold that. Yeah, that'd be good. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Cool is bluff. So one thing we're seeing here that you're not going to see in a lot of the other videos is immediate mouth closure after the statement. The statement's over and the mouth closes within a tenth of a second. And she continues to dig deeper here. There's a baton gesture, which, Greg, I'm not sure what you guys call that. I know you're on mute and Scott's frozen. Or sort of frozen. Yeah. Illustrator. But a baton is a function of illustrator. Yeah. So a baton is when we talk in our hand is at the accentuation or the right at the syllable of what we're saying. And there's a baton gesture on every single syllable here when she starts to answer this. Keep going. Cool is bluff. See who crumbles first. I think it's unusual here that she won't speak for herself. She's turning everything into this is about the company. This is not about me. Because we have voluntarily decided not to use our nanotainer tubes until we cut over to the left hand side of the road, which we now have the FDA quality systems in place to do this. We are not collecting the finger stick sample. And I think part of this is a diversion of guilt. That if she can make it about them and about everybody there, then she doesn't have to own it if anything ever happens, because I'm damn sure that she's worried about this coming into light. So right at the end, again, immediate mouth closure with a confirmation glance back to the interviewer, which is both of those are not within her normal baseline. Scott, what do you got? Other than a cramp in your neck? Wow. No, I just can't see. Shall I call the ambulance? I got hot chicken waiting up there. That'll wake me up. This is a huge lie. Your blink rate plummets at this point. And as we're going, as she goes through this, she shrinks again. She shrinks and she's using her barriers. You guys cover most everything. And again, I think she's had a lot of help with this because nobody can both while you lie to somebody like this. If you're a psychopath, if there's something wrong with your amygdala, there's something wrong with the limbic system in there. Here's why I think so, Chase. She can look at somebody and stare at him without blinking like I just did and not feel weird about it. What's coming out of her mouth? It's just it's a huge lie. Every bit of it. Nothing in there is true. She can't do any of that stuff. And she's looking at this guy dead eyed and just saying like it's nothing. It's not bothering her. And having been able to do this to everyone up to this point like that, again, not caring about the health of who knows how many people that this would have affected. They would have found out eventually, obviously, didn't care about that. But it doesn't bother her. As a psychopath, what happens is your amygdala don't work properly. It doesn't work properly. There's two of them. They're about the size of almonds and they're about this high up. You go in about what is an inch and a half and they come down like that and they're either not working properly, they're not functioning properly, they're missing or they're damaged. And that's the part of the limbic system that lets you have empathy for people, for little animals, for little children, for other people. When somebody hits their hand with their thumb with a hammer, you go, oh, gosh, I bet that hurt. They don't have that. So they don't know that it's weird to keep looking at you. That's the psychopathic stare. So when you see someone in a bar and they keep looking at you like this from across room and don't quit and it makes you feel weird, it's because it doesn't make them feel weird. They don't know. They can't read the social cues in the room like a normal person can. And she can't read the social cues on this guy as he becomes uncomfortable as she continues to him. And that's a big sign of that for me. In the list, you go down there, they can't read. They can read some facial expressions, fear. They can read. They see that. That's the one they cue into. But she's not seeing fear here. She can't read what this guy's doing or what he's thinking or what other people she's talked to are thinking or have thought up to that point. And apparently they were believing her because of what they've mistaken for competence and her not looking away and keep dead eye on them at this point. And then you're right there at the end. She looks like, do you believe me? Everything's kind of changed. Like, do you believe me? That kind of face. Yeah. So that's what I got. That's another list of reasons I think we're dealing with psychopath here. See, I don't think she answered the question. What I don't think, I don't think she lied. You guys hear my dog having a nightmare back there? No, no, no, no. He's doing little barks. I thought it was going to ruin you talking. I'm sorry. Oh, no, Scott. I don't think, I don't think she, I don't think she told a lie. I think she just avoided answering the question. She didn't say we can do this. She just avoided it. I agree with you. But she doesn't see the cues on this guy to go. I wonder if she's missing everything. Watch that. What? Keep it, keep it on the other guy as well. And she nods her head. You know how many times she nods her head coming out of the gate there in that answer? As he's talking to her at the beginning, 58 times. 58 nods. I know it's a lot. I'm just watching. That's a hell of just a hold of one, two, three, four, five. Count them. Go back through and count them this time when you watch this back through. 58 times she nods her head. That's just not normal. None of this is normal. I think she's feeling stress is the reason she's moving her head. Yeah, sure. Could be. I don't know. I'm embarrassed. I didn't count. I didn't have a number at all. And you have. I agree with you. That's a lot of them. It's a lot of them. All right. Is that everybody? Yep. Let's move along. So if I went to one of the centers and I got a pinprick and I only gave that much blood, right? What tests are you currently able to perform for that blood using anything other than commercially available lab equipment? So we have never used commercially available lab equipment for finger stick based tests. Every finger stick test that we have ever done uses proprietary Theranos technology that is not commercially available right now because we're at a moment in time in which we've decided to transition from the lab framework to the FDA framework. I think about this kind of like if you have cars driving on a road and you say, OK, I'm going to take everybody from driving on the right hand side of the road to the left hand side of the road. The only way to do that is to pause, right? Cut over. And so as a result, because we have voluntarily decided not to use our nanotainer tubes until we cut over to the left hand side of the road, which we now have the FDA quality systems in place to do this, we are not collecting the finger stick sample for anything except for HSV. That has nothing to do with what we can run on our devices in our lab. It has nothing to do with our tests. It has nothing to do with our testing methodology or the accuracy or performance of it. All right, this is a good one. And we'll see you next time. See you next week.