‘The Call to Remove Masks Is for Doxxing’: Former Deputy Director of ICE Field Office in New York

Joining us now is Scott Mikowski, former deputy director of the ICE field office in New York. He's also a visiting fellow for deportation studies at the Oversight Project. So Scott, thank you for joining us today. Good afternoon to you. So, you know, Democrats are in part calling for a ban on masks for federal agents in most circumstances. Is masking by federal immigration agents a new practice and why is this being implemented? Well, thank you for having me. I like to say that from a tactical standpoint, it was never an issue. We started to see a lot of doxing and a lot of this online harassment in the end of 2017, 2018. It wasn't as bad, but I would tell you that with the new trend of protesters interfering, obstructing of the doxing, online cyberbullying, threats to federal agents, yeah, it definitely increased. Okay. So there's an argument out there, Scott, that wearing masks decreases trust and increases fear. What is your thoughts on that? It's a double-edged sword. I mean, listen, the only reason why the one side wants people de-masked is so that they could dox them. And they proved it time and time again. This isn't about identifying anybody. They want to use facial recognitioning. They want to use AI. They want to use these things to dox people. It's been proven. There's plenty of ICE, ERO, and HSI agents that are out there. They're working the streets every day. They're not wearing masks. Now in Minnesota, in the Midwest, you see it more, but it's freezing cold out there. So I'm not going to use that as an excuse, but prior to this, yes. And there's a lot of undercover agents and a lot of undercover operations, and they wear that for their own protection. But they're being doxed. I mean, there's been data that has been linked. 4,500 agents have been doxed by a whistleblower that released information. There's information being released by hotel workers. The list goes on and on and on. And that's all they really want to do, is they want to shame the agents. They want to shame the officers, shame their families, and their children. You're absolutely right that this is a double-edged sword, and we must consider the safety of the agents. So I brought a clip here with me. This week earlier, Border Czar Tom Holman said there will be an immediate drawdown of 700 law enforcement personnel in Minnesota. So I just want us to take a look here of Holman speaking on Wednesday. That's why this partnership and this coordination is so important. We'd much rather work in the safety and security of jail. Look, I go to bed every night wondering if every one of our officers go home safely. I also am concerned that every person we're looking for is taken into custody safely. The best way to do that is to have a targeted enforcement operation and well-planned operation. So I just want your thoughts on this. What impact will this drawdown have on the safety of the federal agents? Because, you know, fewer agents, does that mean fewer protests and therefore safer environments or something else, Scott? I would say first and foremost, you know, Tom Holman's in that position for a reason. He understands operational needs. What I would say is a lot of this is, it's the Minneapolis Police Department, St. Paul Police Department, all these other police departments that let the obstruction, the interference go on for so long. I mean, they were part of the problem. Mr. Holman wants to draw down and wants to get back to targeted enforcement. And I think that's a smart thing to do. And like he said, I mean, that's what we're good at. I mean, people are very confused about operations. I mean, ICE is, you know, relatively new in the sense they were organized in 2003. But we've been doing this in legacy INS. We've been making arrests. You know, so when I hear people talk about all of this rhetoric, it's nonsense. We do targeted enforcement operations and it's never been this bad. Okay. So you're saying it's never been this bad. Can you just contrast for us in detail, how has cooperation changed over the years between local authorities, state authorities, state leaders with federal agents and the federal government? Well, I think politicians have weaponized law enforcement. I mean, when you have governors out there that come out and they institute sanctuary city policies, state policies that forbid you to do any cooperation whatsoever with a federal law enforcement agency that's in charge of taking the worst of the worst off the street. I think that just shows you how idiotic it sounds. I mean, if ICE agents are getting people from jails safely and securely, they wouldn't have to be as many people on the street looking for them. This is a dangerous, this is not a game. Okay. This is law enforcement and the men and women of ICE, the border patrol, all the other agencies that are out there supporting this operation, right? They shouldn't be used as linchpins between politicians and law enforcement. When police chiefs outright tell people, listen, this is lunacy. Politicians should be listening to them. I mean, it's crazy to think that you don't want to cooperate taking people that the very people they say they're protecting, they're putting in harm's way. They're releasing these people knowing that they're wanted back into the very communities they committed crimes in. So the victims are there, the victims' families are there. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Right. And I just want to add to what you just said right now. The agents are simply following orders. They're just doing their jobs. I mean, why target agents? That's my question. Okay. Scott, I just have one more thing I like your comments on. I was talking about this issue with a guest a few days ago, and he said the drawdown is essentially equivalent to conceding control. But Tom Holman says this is smarter enforcement, not less enforcement. I just want your comments on this. I think there were some concessions here. Tom Holman had communicated with the officials there, they wanted cooperation, they wanted them to work, you know, into the jails, get people out of the jails. You know, the police need to step up and do the crowd control to make sure that everybody in the community is safe. I think his tactic will work. You know, I do think that drawing down and refocusing our efforts will be better in the long run for everybody. Okay. Let's wait and see. But really appreciate your comments today, Scott. A pleasure. Thank you for having me.