From Religious Refuge to Risk in UK, Embassy Approval Gives CCP Leverage: Advocate

For more insight into the approved Chinese embassy in London, we welcome Mark Saba, the director of the Committee for Freedom in Hong Kong Foundation. Mark, thanks for being here. Please give us an overview of what this embassy means for the security of the UK and for Chinese dissidents. Well, I think for the security of the UK, it's quite dangerous. I think if you have the foreign service, the secret service, governments of foreign governments, local residents, the Metropolitan Police and others, all warning you that this is a bad idea, it probably is a bad idea. I think what's making people suspicious is that they all thought it was bad before suddenly they didn't think it was bad. Regarding opposition people from Hong Kong, from Tibet, Uyghurs and others, they've had regular protests over the last year or so saying, do not allow this to happen. And it continues apace, despite the fact that the CCP is putting bounties on people living in the UK. Ten Hong Kongers now have bounties in the UK, including my colleagues. And nothing is being done to stop this or to say to the CCP, you cannot behave this way and expect your rewards. And yet somehow the Labour government continues to reward the CCP despite all these actions. They are holding a British citizen, Jimmy Lai, in jail in Hong Kong. They are spying on our parliamentarians. There were spies out of the Hong Kong Economic Trade Office. There are problems with Confucius Institutes on campuses and so on and so forth. And having the biggest embassy in Europe right in the heart of a financial district is an incredible thing to permit by this British government. And Mark, to one of your earlier points, there are reports surfacing now that 208 rooms are these hidden chambers that are in this planned embassy, and they could be used to hold dissidents, detain them, people who fled China. Now, also there have been allegations in the past in 2022, for example, with British investigations following of a Hong Kong protester being dragged into the Chinese consulate in the UK and beaten during demonstrations. Does this new embassy further those concerns? Yeah, of course it is. I mean, a couple of years ago, there was a man from Hong Kong called Bob Chan who was dragged by the Chinese consul general, manhandled into the gates of the consulate in Manchester in the north of England with an open view of the police and protesters, and he was beaten. And it was only thanks to the courage and bravery of a local policeman who broke all protocol to step in and pull the man out. But had he not done that, we don't know what would have happened to Bob Chan. And of course, for many Hong Kongers and Tibetans and Uyghurs and others, the idea that there are all these secret rooms in the basement, these redacted rooms that nobody knows what they're for, is a source of concern. Of course, it could be that they just want to build an underground library, but we're highly skeptical of that. And the fact that the secret rooms run alongside all the financial district cables is another source of major concern, because if anyone thinks that the CCP won't tap into cables or cut cables, as they have done, and undersea cables and so on, then those fears are very much alive. And so many dissidents, Hong Kong dissidents and Chinese dissidents and others, really fear that having such a massive complex means that the opportunities for people to disappear within those gates once they're inside grow exponentially. So, Mark, as we've discussed, the Chinese Communist Party's methods for targeting dissidents worldwide are many. They also target spiritual adherents, like the persecuted practitioners of Falun Gong. The CCP spreads propaganda through its embassies and targets their events. Do you see the approval of this embassy as eroding Britain's freedom of belief? I'm not sure about the freedom of belief at this time. It's more about the security of people who have chosen the United Kingdom as a safe haven from no matter which religion or which ethnic background or whichever country they've come from. People flood to the UK precisely because it offers them freedom of belief, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, all things which the CCP does not allow. And the CCP pursues its policies internationally. For a country that hates foreign interference, it loves interfering in foreign countries. And so that's where the biggest fear lies, that it will leverage this absolutely massive embassy for nefarious purposes. I'm following what you're saying. Now, The Telegraph reports that, and we were talking about this, the critical high-speed Internet infrastructure is right next to the site of the new embassy. And Benedict Rogers, a China human rights activist, says this is reason enough to shut down the project. What does having a Chinese regime facility next to these sensitive communication I mean, again, it's a national security risk. London is one of the world's global financial districts. All the major cables carrying all the information run alongside this secret redacted basement that nobody knows what they're going to use it for. Now, again, it could be a gym, it could be a recreation center, who knows. But it's funny that that is the room that's been blocked out and redacted. And The Telegraph exposed perfectly the dimensions and the depths and so on and the proximity to those cables. And it is a national security risk. I'll tell you something, I cannot imagine for the life of me, any Western government, democratic government, not least the British government, being given permission to build an embassy right next to Beijing's own information cables. It just wouldn't happen. And so why are we allowing this in the United Kingdom? It's astonishing. It's playing fast and loose with Britain's national security and with the security of citizens living in the United Kingdom. I hear your point about the double standard. Now that the UK has approved this embassy, though, what can Brits and others who are concerned about this as a security threat that you were alluding to do to protect themselves and their way of life? What now? Well, the first thing is that it's not a done deal yet, because there's going to be a judicial review. Judicial review could take, you know, a long time, could take months, could take years. And then there's the planning process. And if the CCP think that they have patience, wait till they meet our planning boards, that will also take a long time. So this is going to run on for a long time yet. And certainly everyone in opposition to it is going to do their absolute best to make sure that every single avenue and channel is investigated before there is nothing else that we can do. But the fight is not over yet. There certainly needs to be a very rigorous process behind this. So, Marc Saba, thank you for coming on our show and sharing your insight. Thank you.