ExclusiveMy Journey Going From a Good Family to Addiction, and Now Helping Others Recover | Jeffrey High

I was sitting like in my bed on a nightly basis just, you know, praying like, God, please just like if you could, if you're real, if you could do anything to like just make me not addicted to these drugs anymore. I came from just a normal family. There was no like violence in the home or there was no drugs or drinking like that. And people came up to me and they're like, hey, me too. Me too, man. Do you think there's more people from normal families getting into it? Absolutely. Jeff, it's great to have you on. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You have a very interesting story. You actually, you were facing addiction and you managed to get out of it. And then now you're helping people that are dealing with addiction. Can you tell us your story first? Sure. Well, my name is Jeff. I grew up down here in Southern California, Newport Beach to be specific, and a very normal childhood. Nothing out of the ordinary. I grew up playing Little League, T-ball, surfing, skateboarding, just normal kid stuff, riding a bike, scraping my knees, normal stuff. There wasn't any type of abuse in the household. There wasn't any like particular trauma that led me to addiction. But somehow, somehow I found it. I found drugs and alcohol. I found, or it found me. I'm not sure which is which. But I somehow stumbled upon it. But I went to Catholic school growing up, like kindergarten through eighth grade. And again, normal childhood, nothing crazy out of the ordinary and stuff like that. Maybe I experimented with marijuana, like sixth or seventh grade, I want to say. Fairly young, fairly young age to experiment with that. But I didn't get hooked right away. It was like maybe every other weekend type of thing or just an occasional thing to do with the friends and stuff like that. But as I got to high school, I discovered some, a little bit more harder drugs, like maybe some cocaine here and there and drinking a little bit more heavily. And it's still, I wouldn't call it a problematic issue at that time either. It was just more of doing it like with friends at parties and just like in a recreational setting here and there. It hadn't become a real problem yet. But after I got out of high school, I started working in gyms and stuff and found my passion for fitness and helping people. I think the passion was just for helping people right off the bat. And I didn't know in what capacity at the time, but I figured I could help people through their physical fitness. I always enjoyed helping people. I still to this day enjoy it. But I started working in gyms and working in gyms, especially like martial arts, gyms, boxing, wrestling and stuff. You get injured quite often. And I got an injury. So you were teaching or fighting? Yeah, I was teaching boxing classes. I was boxing and sparring and wrestling and doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and stuff like that. This was back in the early 2000s too, and it wasn't as popular as it was today. So I did get an injury. I broke my arm. I broke my elbow. A doctor prescribed me painkillers at the time, and I didn't even necessarily really like them at first. I took them as prescribed, and it was just normal. I went through the prescription as the doctor prescribed. I took exactly how he told me to do it. And then the following year, the arm healed up okay. The following year, I broke the same arm again, and I went back to a doctor. I found myself finishing the prescription in one day. I ate 20 pills in one day. I was just like, wow, I don't know why I like them so much, but I do now all of a sudden. From there, it was just off to the races. I went and quickly tried to obtain another prescription, and the doctor said, well, I'll give you one more. But after that, you're kind of on your own. I very quickly found a crooked doctor here in Orange County that was prescribing me pretty much whatever I wanted, like hundreds of Vicodins a month, some other benzodiazepines, too, and some other things as well. But so quickly, my addiction was taken off right there. But at first, it was manageable. At first, I would call it manageable. I was taking maybe three a day at the time, three a day, and everything was great. It felt as though I was invincible. I was teaching the best classes in the morning, the best boxing classes. My classes were full. I wasn't impaired. I wasn't slurring my speech, or I wasn't slow. I was very energetic, quite the opposite, very energetic, very outgoing. I think for the first time, it took away all that fear and anxiety in my life that I didn't even know I had, but it did. I was all of a sudden very sociable. I could talk to anybody without being nervous, or I just felt like on top of the world. Everything was going great, and life was good for those first couple years. Everything was really good. A lot of people say, like, think it starts off really dark, or it starts off ... But for me, it was great. I had a nice place by the beach. I had a nice truck, a nice motorcycle. In my early 20s, everything a kid could want. From there, I began to develop a tolerance. Where I was taking three a day, that three just wasn't doing it anymore. I wasn't feeling the effects of three anymore, so I would need to double that. Now I was taking six a day. Could people tell that you're taking these drugs? Not at this time. The three weren't doing the effect anymore, so I'm like, okay, I'm going to do more. As soon as I took six, it was like the same as if I was doing three, and then it was back to normal. Business as usual. I felt good. Everything was getting done. I mean, I would have a hard day at work, at the gym all day, and I'd come home and clean my house. I'd clean the ceilings, and vacuum, and everything would look perfect. It just gave me unlimited energy. But then, I would say people started to notice, maybe a few years into it, where the tolerance had grown, definitely. I was taking 10 to 15 a day, or something like that. The only time it became noticeable was when I was out, or when I ran out for a brief time until I could go see my doctor again. Because those 120, even though I was getting 120 a month, they would run out before the next month to go see them again. That's when they would notice, because I would be sick, I would be sweating, I'd be shaking a little bit. But once I was on them, I mean, once I was taking them, it was like back to normal. It was like this right now. You would not really be able to tell. But then, as opiate addictions go, my addiction and my tolerance kept growing, and growing, and growing. I developed an insatiable appetite, a thirst I couldn't quench with just 120. I had to supplement by going to find more on the street, in the black market, and stuff like that. I'm taking more, and more, and more. We were finding the OxyContins for a minute there, too. Those were too strong for my doctor to prescribe to me at the time. But we were getting them on the black market, and I was taking those. Pretty soon, it just came to a point where someone's like, hey, why don't you try this heroin stuff? I'm like, I'm not from the hood or anything like that. I'm from Newport Beach. I'm like, oh my God, heroin? Are you serious, man? That's crazy. I grew up going to D.A.R.E. classes and stuff like that. In school, I had this vision of homeless people or criminals shooting heroin under a bridge like that. He's like, no, man, it's not like that. You just smoke a little bit, and it's the same thing. I was really scared at first, but then I smoked it, and I realized it was the exact same feeling as the prescription medication that the doctor was giving me. If anything, it was a little bit less potent. It was very strange. I was like, oh my God, I thought this was going to be completely impaired. It can if you do too much of it, but at first, it was just the same feeling. As the addiction gets, it just grows and grows and grows. If it could just stay like it was at the beginning, I probably wouldn't even be sober. Who knows? Maybe. It was great, but then it gets worse and worse, and you need more and more and more. Your addiction demands more and more opiates to satisfy that feeling. At one point, I think it was around 2000, it must have been 2012 or 13, I realized that I had a problem. There was a problem going on. I could not stop. I tried many times to stop on my own, and I couldn't get past noon without taking something. Did the people realize your job? People were starting to realize it. Maybe not so much my job, because the place that I worked at, they were like a family too. They were young, and they were professional fighters, and they were all doing their own kind of party and stuff like that. Not like I was at the time. I was hiding it from them, but they were all doing their thing too, like drinking and smoking a little marijuana and stuff like that. It was all fun and innocent. For me, I was developing a very non-innocent habit behind the scene. It became noticeable. I think my close friends could definitely tell something was going on. I decided to reach out for help the best way that I knew how at the time. It was going to the county methadone clinic. I don't know if you're familiar with methadone, but methadone is a medication that was invented in the 70s to get people off of heroin. What they don't tell you is that's just as addictive, if not more addictive than the heroin and the drugs itself. Basically, they're just getting you on a government form or a pharmaceutical form of heroin that you can do, that they will give you at a clinic. It's supposed to be okay, but it's literally just the same. Maybe it doesn't have the same euphoric qualities as heroin and painkillers, but it's definitely as addictive. If you don't have it, you're going to be in pain. You're going to be in severe withdrawal. Again, I was just naive at the time. I was too proud to ask for help. I didn't tell my parents at the time. They didn't know, I don't think, because I was living on my own. I didn't want to tell them, like, hey, mom, hey, dad, I'm strung out on heroin now. It's your son. I'm strung out on heroin now. I figured, I'm like, I could do it on my own. I'm just going to go to this county methadone clinic and get some methadone. All I ended up doing was just adding methadone to the impressive repertoire of narcotics I was taking on a daily basis. So now I'm taking methadone on top of heroin and painkillers and marijuana, recreational cocaine, the occasional crystal meth, too. It was just a wild thing, and that continued for another five years. So I was addicted to all these drugs, and then I added county methadone on it, and that was the hardest, I think, to give up in the first place. People say that methadone is the absolute hardest thing to give up, and that's what they give you to help you. But it does work backwards. It's definitely. I mean, it'll keep you calm or something like that, but if you don't have it, it's the same as being out of drugs. There's no different. It's no different. It's what they call a maintenance program. It's like, you're going to stay on it, and you're going to stay on it for forever. So anyways, I stayed on that for about five or six years. There came a time where I was sitting in my bed on a nightly basis, just praying, like, God, please, if you could, if you're real, if you could do anything to just make me not addicted to these drugs anymore, I'm sick and tired of this life. Because I grew up in Newport Beach. All my friends were becoming lawyers and real estate guys and mortgage guys, and they had beautiful homes and wives and kids, and I'm just like, God, what am I doing? I'm doing drugs. I'm on heroin, and I'm doing all this stuff. I saw all my friends living these awesome lives, these very fulfilling lives, and I'm sitting here at 33 years old, strung out on heroin, losing my house at the beach, losing my car, losing my motorcycle, having to move back in with my mom. It was just incomprehensible demoralization. It was very humiliating. So when you're in the thick of it, you can't just be like, okay, I'm going to throw in the towel. I'm done. I'm just done. It just doesn't work like that. So it took something like an act of, or it took a power greater than myself to just kind of step in and be like, one day, so I stayed up for multiple days. I started doing some speed, and I was up for a week straight. I didn't go to sleep, and I fell asleep. I finally fell asleep after partying for a week on this speed. I was up for a week straight, and I fell asleep, and I woke up. I didn't know how long I'd been asleep, so I went to this methadone clinic to get my daily methadone, and if you miss one day, they don't really care. They're just like, hey, get back in line. If you miss two days, they're like, oh, you're going to have to go see your counselor and talk to them and this and that, but if you miss three days, they just kick you out of the whole program, and it's bad. You have to re-enroll days later and start from the beginning a low dose, and it's bad. But anyways, I walked into the methadone clinic, and I said, yeah, my number is 9605. Like, hi, I think I missed a day or something like that, and the lady looked at me. She's like, how long do you think you missed? I was like, I don't know, a day. Did I miss two days? She's like, sir, the last time you were in here was Monday. She's like, it's now Friday afternoon, and I'm just going, what? She's like, yeah, so you're kicked out of the program, and the doctor went home for the day, so we'll see you on Monday. I got to tell you, that was the longest weekend of my life. It was so, I was so sick. I was so sick, throwing up constantly, couldn't move. It was bad, and at the time, my younger brother was working in treatment, and he said, hey, if I could get you into treatment, would you go? He's asked me that before, and I was like, no, man, I don't need it. You need it. I'm good. I don't need that. This time, for some reason, I didn't even hesitate. I was like, I'll go. I'll go. I'm done. I found myself in Venice Beach, at a little sober living, and this place wasn't really an official rehab or treatment center. It was just some guy's house. I didn't know the difference. I'd never been to treatment or sober living or anything like that before, so I was here, and they're like, before you come to our house, you're going to need to go see a doctor. I obtained some, I'm a master doctor manipulator, so I manipulated a prescription from this doctor that's supposed to be helping me. I got him to give me some, not illegal drugs, but some narcotics, and I was at this sober living, high on narcotics, and everything. I was like, man, I love rehab. I'm having a great time. It's because I was high. That continued for about a month, and then that place shut down, and the owner comes up to me and goes, hey, we're shutting down. You're going to have to go somewhere. Find a place to go. If you talk to this one gentleman over here, he will take sympathy on you and take you into his place. I talked to him, and he said, you can come to my place, my treatment place, but I got to tell you, there's absolutely nothing allowed at my house. No medications. Not even aspirin. Not even Tylenol. I'm like, oh, my God. But I have a prescription. All this. He's like, I know what you have. He's like, nothing's allowed at my house. I was frightened big time, but I had no other option at the time. I couldn't go back to my mom's house. I couldn't go back to Newport Beach, so I was like, I'll go. I went to this guy's house, and from there, I'll tell you, I didn't sleep for ... I started the withdrawal process, and I didn't sleep for probably 30 days, man. I'm not talking wide awake, but it's like, you're laying there in bed, and you're looking at the clock, and you're like, oh, my God, that was only 30 minutes. I can't believe it. It was just worse sleep. You didn't sleep for like a week, achy, throwing up. It was bad. It was a bad, rough month. But after the fog kind of cleared, and ... You were not allowed to get out of the house, or you were? No. Yeah, no, not at that time. I think just to go to these daily program, it was like a school type thing. It was called the IOP. They would let you go to that, and then you'd come right home, but I could barely get out of bed. It was bad at the time. Yeah, so after the fog cleared, and after that very long 30 days had passed, I woke up, and for the first time, at 33 years old, and I'm going, oh, my God, I can't do that ever again. I don't think I could physically do that, or mentally do that, or anything again. Right there, I made a decision like, okay, I'm going to do everything I can to not ever go back to that lifestyle again. Then I was in treatment with a bunch of young kids. I was 33. I was the oldest guy there. It was crazy. I thought it was ... I didn't know it was like that, so many young kids. I saw so many young kids that were in treatment that were not doing the right thing. They were smoking weed, or maybe abusing their medications, or something like that. I made a decision right there. I'm like, I am not going to associate with these guys. I'm going to go and ask the people that have long-term sobriety, like 10, 20, 30 years. I'm going to ask them like, hey, what's the secret? What do you do? What do I have to do to never go back to that lifestyle? I asked a lot of people, and they said, well, you got to have the willingness. You have to have the willingness to do whatever it takes. I'm like, I have the willingness, believe me. I'm willing to do whatever. I'll stand on my head and whistle Dixie if I have to. Whatever they want me to do, I'll do it. They go, okay, that's good. They're like, well, you should probably get a sponsor, what they call a sponsor, somebody to help guide you through the trials and tribulations of sobriety. I got one. I'm like, yeah, no problem. I'll get one. He's a great guy. He's still my sponsor to this day. He's a good guy. Then they said, well, you got to go to these meetings every once in a while. I go, oh man, I didn't really want to do that. I'm like, I don't really want to do that. They're like, you got to work these 12-step things. I really didn't want to do that either. I didn't even believe in it at first. I was like, I didn't even really believe in that it was going to work. I didn't believe in higher power or God or anything like that. I was like, I didn't believe in any of that stuff at the time, but they were said, it doesn't matter if you believe it or not, this is what you have to do. And I'm like, okay, I'll do it. Like, even if I don't believe it, I'll do it for sure. So I started doing it. And, uh, honestly, like I was at the very beginning, I was like, well, if I do it and it doesn't work, I could at least just throw it in their face and be like, look, I did what you said and it didn't work. So what do you think of that? But the funny thing is I just did what they said. And it was very easy. It wasn't like hard. It wasn't like I was doing like schoolwork or like essays or anything like that. It was pretty simple. And I did it. And somehow, some way it worked. It just, uh, that mental obsession where you're constantly thinking about drugs and alcohol just completely went away. This whole program type, type of thing that I, that I work, it's, it's not only just about getting off drugs and alcohol, but it's also about giving back and helping people as much as you can. Being of service is what they call it. You know, being of service to individuals that still suffer, uh, from addiction or alcoholism, you know, or, um, being a service. So it not only helped me like get off drugs and alcohol, but it, well, at first I got a backup real quick and I'll say this, my spot, like my sponsor guy, he's like, Hey, do you think this whole, this whole thing is just to get off drugs and alcohol and, and just to stop using drugs and alcohol? And I'm like, yeah, of course. Like why did it 12 step, right? Yeah. Like, well, the whole program thing. Yeah. The 12 step fellowship thing that I'm in. And, uh, he said, do you, do you think this whole thing is just to get off drugs and alcohol? And I'm like, yeah, of course. Why would I be, why else would I be doing it? And he's like, well, that's just like the very small portion of it. You know, he's like, that's, that's the first step thing of it, like the first part of it. But it's really had to be like a, a loving kind human being that gives back and honest, like not lying, not cheating, not stealing. Like it's about being a good human being. Like it's about being a man, Jeff. That's what it's about. And I was, I realized like, you know, I was a, I was 33 years old, but I was far from living life like a man, not paying rent. You know, I was, I didn't have a job at that time. So this whole, it really was just like a blueprint for, for how to live my life. And from there on, I started to learn, like, you know, to, to be completely honest with myself and with others and, um, learned how to, um, to avoid, learn how to deal with situations that might be stressful or, or anxiety inducing or something or stuff like that. Just basically learned how to deal with life on life's life's terms. We are honored to be sponsored by Shen Yun. I've been attending Shen Yun performances every year as they change the choreography and music. Shen Yun takes you back in time to the magical world of ancient China with unique blend of brilliant dancing, beautiful costumes and legends coming to life. Overall, it's a very meaningful performance with a lot more than just entertainment to offer. Make sure to go see it this year. Go to Shenyun.com and book your tickets today. I highly recommend it. People nowadays go to the doctors, the psychiatrist for pills, for antidepressants. This, this is the antidepressant. I knew it was going to be good. It's a billion times better than I even thought it would be. I'd heard people say, you don't want to miss this. And I would fully agree. I'm going to tell everyone to come see it. You have to. Definitely going to come back next year. Totally inspirational. You have to go see this. It's a once in a lifetime must see that will change their lives forever. Now you're helping people that are facing addiction. How did you end up doing that? It's funny you asked that question because I was planning on just going back to working in the gym industry and the fitness industry. But I was having a hard time getting a job at that time in early sobriety up there. And I was living in Los Angeles and, uh, um, I didn't have a hard time, but it was a hard time getting the pay that I wanted. I was just like, man, what am I going to do? I even tried like waiting tables at a, at a, at a deli in Los Angeles and I got fired within the first week. Completely sober too. That was, that was humiliating, but it was because I was too slow and I didn't know how to do it. So I'm, I'm sitting there going, geez, what am I going to do with my life? Like, what am I going to do with my life? I'm 33 years old. I have no skill except like knowing how to like box and work out. And other than that, like I'm not like trained. I don't know what I'm going to do. So someone suggested like, Hey, why don't you work in treatment? You know, it's a, it's a very fulfilling, fulfilling, um, job to have. You get to help people and right there when they said I get to help people, it kind of like turned a light light bulb on. And I immediately thought back to those people that helped me in the beginning and how cool they were. And they made it look so appealing at first. Cause I think if I would have had some like somebody like some doctor in a lab coat with glasses, like, you know, this is what you're going to do and all this stuff like that. I'd have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was cool people that look, you know, that were, that were, um, that I can relate to that. We're telling me like, Hey man, this is, this is what you should do. You know, like, and they made it look attractive. They made the life, um, of being sober, look attractive. They weren't like, you got to do this and that, you know, they were more, more or less like, just leading by attraction rather than promotion. It just became very appealing. So the first job I had in treatment was teaching, uh, or facilitating fitness classes and boxing classes in the treatment center. So it was like, I slowly combined both worlds like a fitness and, uh, and rehabilitation. And then I got some good feedback from, from the people and they were sitting there, man, I really like your classes. I like your groups and stuff like that. Could you do more and more? And then the, uh, the, the places were starting to like, you know, call, like other places would hear like, Hey, I hear you work here. Like, could you come to my place and do that too? And can you do that at our place? And it was, it was great. Like, we're just started to like, uh, get out like by word of mouth. Like, you know what I mean? Like, uh, that the groups were, were, uh, were fun for the clients and they were making it look fun. So I was very fortunate enough to where I really didn't have to apply to anything like other than the first, first, like one or two treatment centers. And it was just all word of mouth, but I'm very grateful. Great, very grateful to have had all the opportunities, all the places that I've worked for, um, have been great. Now, did you, did you ever realize, uh, so you said you grew up in a middle-class family, everything was fine. And, um, did you ever find out why you went into this? You know what? That's, that's a great question too. And I've asked, I've asked, I remember sitting down in therapy sessions, like in early sobriety and the therapist was like, there's, there must be some reason like why you use, like, what's the trauma. And I'm trying to think, and I'm like, no, you know, I just, I somehow just love the effects produced by alcohol and drugs. And he's like, I don't know why, but why? And they're like, but why? And I'm like, I don't know. Like, I wish I did. I mean, I grew up listening to like rock and roll music and like, you know, all the, all the people that I admired back in the day, you know, or, or still, you know, musicians wise, like have, you know, drugs or, or, or in, in their history. So I don't know if it was like some type of thing like that, where it was like people like, like music influenced me or just, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is, you know, but I remember sitting there in treatment going, God, do I even belong here? You know, like I know I do because I know I'm certainly addicted to drugs, but it's like, everybody seemed to have had this like traumatic story or traumatic situation happened to where it, it, it, it really got there and ignited their addiction. But, um, I, I realized years later when I started sharing my story, like publicly, like at, at different speaking engagements and meetings and stuff like that. And I say, Hey, you know, I don't, I don't have any trauma. Like I came from just a normal family. There was no like violence in the home or there was no drugs or drinking like that. And people came up to me and they're like, Hey, me too. Me too, man. Like they're like, I thought I was, you know, different. So it's, it's ever since I said, that's why I like, I say that every time is because like, you know, I really didn't have any reason to use or get addicted to drugs and alcohol, but somehow I did. And that seems to always relate with people more than like, you know, Hey, like, you know, I came from, from gangs or like, you know, like prison, like that's cool. If that, if that's your story. Is that happening more now? Do you think there's more people from normal families getting into it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Why do you think that is? I mean, I think it's not just so much today. I think it's always been that way. I think it's no secret that the United States is facing a opiate crisis and they have been since the early 2000s. So I think these narcotics have infiltrated like suburban households, like, you know, just middle-class America. It's not just for the homeless or the gang members or like the, the quote unquote wrong side of the tracks anymore. It's, it's I think for a long time now even long, long before my time, it's, it's been infiltrated into like, you know, regular working class, middle-class like societies and households and stuff. I think that with the stigma attached to it, I think it just people keep it more hidden, keep it more under wraps. I think. So you think a lot of people are functioning, but they're doing drugs on a regular basis, but they're not telling anyone. Yes, absolutely. I've worked with, with several, you know, middle-aged housewives that are just taking it and they're like, I don't have a problem. I'm just, I just do this so I can function and I have pain and I have anxiety and stuff like that. And in their minds, they're like, yeah, they, they do, you know, have the anxiety or they probably, I mean, I'm sure they do have the anxiety and pain, you know, and they're using it for a good reason. But I think they were, they're almost like in a denial. Like, you know, certain individuals are almost in denial that they, that they had an addiction going on, but it's more and more common, you know, especially for me, I justified it because it wasn't, I wasn't going to like a corner in Santa Ana, like getting, getting something from like a gang member. I was getting it from a guy in a white lab coat with glasses and the prescription pad. So it was very easy to think in my mind, well, I'm not as bad as these guys like under the bridge, like doing drugs, like, you know, shooting drugs. I'm getting it from a doctor. You know, it must be, if a doctor is giving me, I must need it. I think there's less and less of that these days, like where doctors are just prescribing anything. You know, I think a lot of those guys got caught, but nowadays there's just, nowadays there's a whole new epidemic amongst us. And it's, I'm sure you've heard of it, the fentanyl epidemic, you know, it's that's, that's a serious one. It's taken a lot of lives. Is it spilling into these communities? Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I'm from Costa Mesa right here in born and raised Newport beach, Costa Mesa area. And I've seen, I mean, I've just seen the community or like certain parts of, of it go from beautiful to all of a sudden it's just riddled with homeless people that are addicted to drugs. There's definitely, it's definitely, I would say the homelessness has increased a lot in the last 10 years. Definitely. And do you, uh, the people you're helping, what's the hardest thing to get out? One obstacle that's always challenging in early sobriety is to just be honest with yourself. Like, Hey, I think I do, I do have a problem with this. Like I have this insatiable appetite for these, uh, drugs or, or alcohol. And I can't stop on my own. You know, I need some help. You know what I mean? So just being honest with themselves, a lot of people like, you know, a lot of people that are clients or patients or whatever you want to call it. Um, they're there not on their own free will. Like, it's like their court ordered or their parents make them go or their wives make them go or their husbands make them go. Um, they're there to kind of just like, uh, to please somebody else. Like, you know, to make somebody else happy, you know, they're not there for themselves. A lot of me be surprised. So they don't realize they they're having a problem. Yeah. You know, I don't think it's out of their control. Yeah. They're like, I'm just here because like the judge made me go, I don't really need to be here. Yeah. I've just got five DUIs, but I don't really need to be here. It's fine. But it's like, well, you got five DUIs, like maybe, you know, maybe that is a problem. You know, maybe that's, maybe it's turning into a problem. Uh, that would be, you know, definitely one of the challenges is just being honest with yourself. That's a challenge. There's many challenges that people face. What's hard for me might not be hard for you. And what's hard for you might not be hard for me. So there's a lot of different, different challenges and stuff like that. But one thing I got to say is it's not as hard as I initially thought, like for all those years that I was out there, I thought, Oh my God, it's, it's damn near impossible to like, to, to become sober, to become sober and live sober without being bored. Oh my God. I used to think, like I used to think life was going to be so boring, but somebody brought it to my attention in early sobriety. They're like, I'm like, man, it's going to be so boring without drugs and alcohol. And he's like, well, what do you like to do, man? I'm like, well, I like to surf. I like to skateboard. I like to box. I like to wrestle jujitsu and stuff. And he's like, well, what were you doing? How, how often were you doing that when you were using drugs? I'm like, man, for the last five or six years, I wasn't doing much at all. You know, I maybe surf twice in one year or something like that. And he's like, well, what do you do? You know? And I'm like, well, I just kind of like sit on the couch and watch TV and do that. And he's like, sounds pretty boring. You know, it sounds like you're a boring person. And as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh my God, I am a boring person. In my early sobriety, I made it a point to go out and do those things that I was most passionate about growing up, like surfing, skateboarding, boxing, wrestling, art, stuff like that. And, uh, I, it's like you discover a whole new passion for, for that, for the stuff that you once loved as a, as a kid. I used to think sobriety, I think I used to think sobriety was going to be boring. It's I've had so much fun in these last seven years. You know, I've, I've gone on trips, many trips, rediscovered passions for things that I've, I love to do, discovered a whole new career path. I met the love of my life. I got to, uh, met my wife. Um, we got married, we had a kid and a life is totally beautiful today. It's, it's amazing. For those people that are struggling with this now, do you, was there a moment that you thought this is not possible? Oh, you know, like, did you lost hope before or like during, before and during, before I was, there was, I was, there was no, I was like, there's no way that this is going to work. There's no way I'm going to stay sober, but I'm like, eh, let's try to see how long I can go. Like, you know, just, just for, for, for fun. Like, let's see how far I can make it. I realized like once I started doing it, I think I had this like pre like thought in my head that it was just going to be so hard and so boring. And it was just like every day, I was just going to be like craving it like every hour, every minute. But it really wasn't like that. You know, I was just doing the things that people suggested going to meetings, doing the stuff and the stuff that they, that not a lot of stuff. It wasn't that hard, you know, and uh, it, life got really good, really quick. And it wasn't like, it was quite the opposite of what I thought. Like it was going to be super difficult. So, um, once I saw the drastic improvements in my life, like just in the first six months, I was like, Oh, this is doable. This is, I can do this. Now you mentioned you have a family now. And when, at that point, at some point you were thinking like you were 32 years old. Yeah. Your friends are having really nice jobs and you're kind of, um, how hard was it to, to build this? Like once you became sober, it was, it was hard. It was difficult. I mean, not difficult, but it was, I mean, it, I wouldn't even like to describe it as difficult, but it just took work. And, uh, one thing I got to say was I really started, you know, I always wanted the wife and kids and the home and the cars and the white picket fence and all that stuff and, and the dog and everything running around early on. I was like, even, even right when I got sober, I was like, I looked at myself in the mirror. I'm like, would you date that person right there? And I was like, at first I was like, no, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't like, you know, I was like, this guy has no job. He's out of shape. Like, you know what I mean? He's just, he's worn up around the edges, you know? So right away I, I kind of made it a mission to, before I went in search of these things to really focus on personal development, like my health, like, uh, like being healthy, exercising, eating the right food. And then from there I discovered the new career path. And then I started to get comfortable in my career and get a little bit more established. And, uh, then I, I, I moved out of the sober living home and our halfway house or whatever you want to call it. Got my own apartment, you know, got like a little car thing. And like, and then from there I started to, I, that self-worth was, I felt a little bit more of that self-worth feeling, you know, and, and became a little bit more confident and was able to, uh, once you love yourself, I think that's the secret. Like once you love yourself, you can love others, you know, but you can't love others without loving yourself first. Does that make sense? Yeah. And do you, what do you say to people that are facing addiction right now and they are stuck? I would say this, I would say it's definitely possible. And I would say that it's, it's not easy, but it's simple. It's very simple. If that makes sense. So it's simpler than what they think. Yeah, absolutely. It's not easy. I mean, it's not like someone's going to hand it to you on a silver platter. It's going to take some work, but it's not complicated. It's not like rocket science or quantum physics. It's very simple. It's a very simple thing. Like, Hey, do a, B, C, and you'll get as long as you do it. And, but it's not like very complicated. It's pretty simple. You know, it's pretty cut and dry. But, um, and then the last piece of advice would, I would just say like, uh, be patient, be patient. Everything takes a little bit of time. You know, it doesn't, you didn't get addicted to drugs and alcohol overnight. So it's not going to just go away overnight. You know, it takes a little bit of time. So be patient. They have a saying, you know, like don't quit before the miracle happens or something like that. You just give it some time. What about the family members? What would you recommend to family members? A lot of people have a loved one or family member that might be facing this. So what I would say to anybody's parents would just be, Hey, educate yourselves, educate, get the education, the proper education. If you really are truly looking to help your loved one, if you're looking to help your son, your daughter, your husband or loved one, do a little bit of research, do a little bit, get a little bit of education yourself on the, on the topic. Don't just think it's something that somebody can just turn off and on like a light switch. You know, I cannot fix it that easily. No, right. But with the right amount of compassion and directing it into the right place, that I think that would be the most appropriate thing for a loved one to do. Yeah. What about some of the signs? A lot of people that are not into doing drugs may not know that somebody's in facing addiction. What are some of the signs that you could say to people that, well, one of the top signs, I mean, is like, you can tell when they go broke when they have no more money left. That was for me for sure. That happened really quick. Like, you know, I wasn't a, I wasn't living large out there, you know? So I ran out of money really quick, but also they, um, on a serious note, they become a little bit more withdrawn, I believe. Like not as like interested in the things. Yeah. Quiet, more reclusive. Like they don't want to be in, in social settings, which is strange because drugs and alcohol helped me get into social situations at first. But then at the very end, I didn't want to be around anybody. You just want the drugs and the alcohol and that's it. Like, leave me alone type thing. So I would say like, you know, look for somebody being withdrawn, um, out of money all the time. Like the withdrawal symptoms are like cold sweats, fever, like symptoms and stuff like that. But, uh, I would just like to say that if you do have a loved one facing addiction or alcoholism, or if you yourself are facing addiction or alcohol, alcoholism, that, uh, not to give up hope because there's many resources today. There's many, there's more resources today than there ever has been. So there are many different ways that you can seek help. You know, there's not only 12 step programs and stuff like that, but there's great, I mean, especially right here in Southern California, there's many great rehab facilities that you can, um, seek help in. I also got to say this today. It's in this day and age with this whole fentanyl crisis, it's just not something to play with. It's not something that should be taken lightly. It's a serious thing. And if, if you are struggling with, um, any type of addiction or alcoholism and to, to seek help, um, from one, one way or the other at, tell your parents, tell your wife, tell your husband, um, tell your friends, just get some help. You know, that's what I would say. Like, it's not, don't, don't be embarrassed. It's not something to, you know, be embarrassed about or anything like that. Jeff High addiction recovery expert. It was great to have you on. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me.