Leader Chippendale: House Oversight Committee 21324

thank you madam chair thank you gentlemen I would uh I'd like to talk about inspection protocol and document integrity and uh Mr Klein I'm going to start with you um first I I'm I'm not a professional engineer so if I screw up any terminology or acronyms or whatever I I preemptively beg your your pardon and feel free to correct me um so two of the three of us up here are Professional Engineers so Fant let us help you um we we've determined already through questioning that uh VHB you've hired the third party inspection uh outfit or or okay no sorry uh sorry that uh VHB hasn't hired the inspectors the inspectors are working separately under a contract with f directly do th those inspectors send their reports to you or do they send them to the client the inspection reports that are ongoing right now are being sent to both simultaneously so you get them as well as dot um the ones that are happening since the the closure yes and the federal and the Federal Highway Administration also so prior to that not everyone was getting them prior to that the the protocol is that the inspection reports go to rot and to Federal Highway Administration okay this is something that we've all come to to know this format of the report right with with these photos and and and the the details that are on them they they've been going on uh going around for quite some time um document Integrity it was noted I think early on by folks that there were some misalignments some text things that were out of whack yeah um did you is that is that something I saw them but you know the I mean the the explanation was that if there were Corrections there were corrections to make it correct okay um so first I'm I'm going to add to rep's uh request as far as looking for the original photos on tiedown 7 I I would like to request all the original photos um for all of the reports in question um as well as the inspection reports from the inspectors on the ground sure um we have some inconsistencies in the photos where where people were pointing out the dates are are manipulated you can see there's two different type faces used there at a different level etc etc um that calls into question if if anything in the report can be relied on no it does not I think that's certainly does to me I think that's a reflection of maybe the the poor editing capabilities of whoever made the edit to it I I don't know I don't know if it means anything more whatever information on it um I believe whatever information however it was made was accurate and correct okay then why over these four years or this this period with four different inspection companies do we have reports that have the exact same verbage including spelling errors the exact same dates underneath on photos why is that happening if if this original information is is getting to do why are we seeing the same verb use I asked that same question so now I'm asking it so hopefully I'll get an answer so the answer is this um the reports themselves in the format of them and even the system that's used for reporting was developed uh from an ashto standard it was it's a national standard of bridge reports with the review and approval of the Federal Highway Administration so these are the way we're going to report on it this the method we're going to use part of of that reporting process is a system that these companies go on as a central depository for their inspection reports and there are some um fields of information that they fill in that are pre-populated with some of the original information so that if no change is in place that text even though the contractor in the engineering consultant that's performing it is a different contractor they're using a pre-formatted tax that they just leave in place if the condition they find is the same as the one that pre-existed follow me I'm following so um that's I think that's the explanation that I got of why some of those fields information appear to be the same even if there was a misspelling from year to year because there was no change in that particular aspect of that bridge inspection therefore the next company populating those forms left that data the way it was great so when we get the uh the original stuff we'll be able to see if that consistency remains um I'm going to go directly to Mr Klein um span 7 when it was was inspected by uh aaom in July was that the company who did that inspection the July inspection was done by aom it was okay um did you get the original materials from the inspector or did it go to both you guys the do as well as VHB I'm not sure what you mean by original materials the photos the reports the findings um anything that was noteworthy the inspection reports were provided to us but they were provided to ride out first so we received them I believe after the closure did you get the rot version of the report or did you get the report from the actual person who inspected it uh it would have been the there is let me let me director I'm I'm speak speaking to the engineer please okay yeah I I'd have to look back at what we received but I believe it was the the final version I don't think we have anything so you don't you have What DOT had provided us with I would assume so okay um let me just add to that the reports that we provided you with are the reports that we get they're not altered in any way they're not edited by do all due respect you just told me that four different companies that inspect made these reports copy and paste information correct but that's them that's not us at do we don't alter the reports in any way they they fill in the reports they fill in the reports they provide them to us we review them Federal Highway Administration reviews them if there are any corrections that need to be made Federal Highway or we comment back to the company they make whatever changes has to be made to make the corrections not us to this form this form to those forms okay correct okay um again Mr Klein per industry best practices what is the standard physical distance an inspector must be from the object or area he's inspecting um my scope on the project is is design I can't comment on what the um the inspection Protocols are okay further um uh confirming we definitely need inspectors here um we can report back to you on what the proper distance is that that would be great and and we can ask the inspectors when they come in front of us um during the July inspection by aeom was there physical access either on staging or through a boom truck or some sort of a physical lift for the inspectors when they made that inspection I that would be a question for the inspectors do does the administration know yes they use um they use lifts from the barges below they you cat use catws and whatever access is on the bridge itself and they were employed in that July inspection they were used they were actually physically able to get up and and view the are I don't know I I don't have a firsthand knowledge of what they use but yes they use various kinds of lifts and supports to get them in a position to inspect the bridges would it be appropriate for them to use a drone instead um I don't know I suppose so that would be in keeping with best industry practices for a drone to inspect rather than person know I don't I don't I don't know that one or the other I think I think we prefer and we have them inspected eyes on so that a human is directly there looking at it and can touch it feel it or interact with it in a way okay okay um have you ever requested or have any reports ever been delivered to you orally to the Department as opposed to in written form inspections yes any reports any reporting from someone you paid to do an inspection have they ever orally communicated the information as opposed to a written document not to me I I have no knowledge of whether or not anybody's commuted orally any inspection results to any members of my staff I have 700 people at work for me and they talk to people all the time and I I'm not privy to every conversation but I can ask okay I can ask yes I and I would appreciate that uh Mr Mr kle at any point prior to the July inspection were you made aware of any structural deficiencies or load limits that should have been placed on that span of bridge um can you repeat the question prior to the July inspection yeah were you ever made aware of any structural deficiencies or load limitations that needed to be placed on that bridge no was the administration load limitations any load limitations or structural issues with the bridge we have made no load limitations on that bridge I know we Haven I'm asking ramp that was on it I think the the ramp coming onto the bridge from veterans Mo Parkway had a load limitation associated with it I'm talking about the area that we're all here today to talk about not to my knowledge no there were never any load limitations or or concerns about we did not we did not place a load limitation on that portion of the bridge no I have a document I believe it is from VHB or it's part of their um Team from February of 23 that does indicate that there are load restrictions and and and over like a copy of that document I'm happy to provide you with copies of the documents um so there's a lot of inconsistency that just a dope like me can find by by talking that document says whether or not there's an inconsistency I can I can provide you with the doc thank you very much thank you but this is all of this is going to the lack of faith frankly that the best practices had been employed up to this point which L us to where we are well best practices were employed but the best practices available to us aren't perfect and they're not necessarily as good as we could potentially make them but they they certainly have served the purpose of keeping people alive through a difficult process of fixing 27% of our bridges that got structurally deficient decades oful that you have fixed a lot of bridges director we've all heard it repeatedly you don't have to keep reminding us it's up a lot of time here fact understood understood and You' stated it repeatedly we we stipulate and depending upon what that document says that you're holding which I don't know because I've never seen it um I'll certainly look at it and we'll investigate what it says and what it actually means but it to me right here sitting right now does not prove to me one way or another with without seeing it or knowing what it says whether or not there were any deficiencies in the way that our folks have acted but I'll certainly take it into consideration when we when we're looking at that and if it did I assure you that um whatever inadequacies um exist will be addressed so so the question is and and you did state that it's it's not a perfect process nothing's perfect though right um that's certainly understood however it's not even good enough to stop this from happening what the practices we're we're we're employing weren't good enough to prevent this from happening this economically crippling event so to say it's not perfect is a truism uh to shade it any other way I think is a little gratuitous um I'm going to defer from this point because I have a lot more questions but I want everyone else to ask theirs and I thank you for uh your responses thank you