Present and Mastery with Leonard Jacobson

Welcome to Awake to Oneness Radio. I am Caroline Chang, your host. The mission of Awake to Oneness Radio is to inspire the world to awaken to the universal truth of oneness. Spirituality and science are both telling us that we are literally all connected. We are literally all one. And when mankind awakens to this universal truth of oneness, there will be peace on Earth. Today's show topic is Presence and Mastery with Leonard Jacobson. Leonard is a modern-day mystic and spiritual teacher. He is the founder of the Conscious Living Foundation and author of Words from Silence, Embracing the Presence, Bridging Heaven and Earth, and Journey into Now. I am so honored that he is here with us today. Welcome, Leonard, to Awake to Oneness Radio. Thank you, Caroline. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. Leonard, can you please share with our audience your personal story, your personal journey of awakening? Just share with us as much as you like of how you came to do the wonderful work that you're doing presently. Well, I'm happy to do that. We have to go back about 34 years to 1981. And that's when I had my first awakening. I was attending a workshop, a retreat at that time, a seven-day retreat. And at the end of the retreat, without any expectation on my part, I had my first awakening. And it was very powerful. I opened into oneness. I opened into heaven on Earth. It was a completely unexpected experience. I didn't really know what it was at the time. I had no knowledge of what it was. And so I just relaxed and went with the whole thing, which lasted about three or four weeks. And this first awakening transformed my life. I was never the same after it. And during this first awakening, I went through quite a number of very powerful experiences. The first was that I was taken through a healing of my own past that basically originated in my childhood. And somehow I was taken through a healing. I felt like I was in the company of masters and sages from another dimension. It was all very mysterious. I was completely intoxicated with love. I found myself spontaneously singing songs of love that just arose within me. I definitely opened into oneness, which I'd never experienced before. And at a certain level of this awakening, I experienced God and heaven on Earth. The interesting thing was that prior to this, I was an agnostic, if not an atheist. I had no interest in God. I didn't have any interest in awakening. I'd never thought about it. But this happened to me. And as I said, it transformed my life. In fact, this first awakening and all the revelations that came through during this first awakening really forms the basis of what I teach now. It took me about three years to integrate what had happened to me. And then after three years, I had a second awakening, which was more powerful than the first. And again, it took me three years to integrate that. These are not the easiest of experiences, Carolyn. It was a very multidimensional experience. So it's like I'm in many different dimensions at the same time. Even though I was aware that I was here in this physical realm, somehow I opened up into other dimensions. And I experienced the presence of God, and I experienced heaven on Earth. Many, many revelations came through that really revealed to me where I had become lost. And then after that, it revealed to me where humanity had become lost. And it revealed a very simple way of finding our way back. So I've had a total of six of these awakenings, approximately three years in between each one. And pretty much that's the story. I mean, I could go into a lot more detail, but I think that's enough for now. Wow, that is awesome. For me, I have not experienced anything out of the ordinary, I guess. But I did have an awakening, in a sense, to oneness. And it was really just one thing I heard that woke me up to the truth of oneness. And when it opened me up, that was Lynn McTaggart said in the documentary film, What the Bleep, the biggest problem in the world today is the illusion of separation. When she said that, it was like a light bulb went off inside me. Like my soul, something inside of me was saying, Yeah, that's it, that's it, that's it. Yes, the problem is the illusion of separation. And once I got that, everything I was studying and reading made sense. Before that, I was just very confused. But once I understood oneness, everything I was reading, everything made sense to me. So that's kind of what has inspired me to do this show, Awake to Oneness, because I believe the understanding of oneness, the understanding that we are truly all connected, we're all one, is kind of the foundation, I believe, for awakening. Well, I couldn't agree with you more. I suppose we could say that your soul was ready to hear that sentence, and that's all you needed to hear. And suddenly the illusion dropped away, the veils of illusion dropped away, the illusion of separation dropped away for you. And the truth is oneness is already here, it always has been. But to the extent that we're absorbed into the world of the mind, absorbed into the past and future, we're not aware of the oneness and the truth that is ever-present, both within us and all around us. So I couldn't agree with you more. It's a question of recognising that the world we live in, the world we have been living in, is essentially a world of illusion. And as we become fully present, it reveals oneness. That's the key to it. How do we come out of the world of the mind, which is a world of duality, a world of illusion, a world of separation, a world of the past and future, a world of memory and imagination, a world of concept, idea and thought, thoughts that never stop? How do we free ourselves from that world, based in illusion, based in separation, and open into the truth of life revealed through the present moment? And at the deeper levels of presence, then of course oneness is revealed to us because that's what's here. We're no longer lost in that illusory separation. And again, at the deeper levels of presence, if we become very deeply present, then it's quite possible that we will experience the living presence of God in all things present. And again, at the very deepest level of presence, we'll recognise where we really are, and where we really are is heaven on earth. And what a pity it is that we don't know this, that we don't recognise it. It's all very well to have a concept about heaven on earth, but to awaken into the direct experience of heaven on earth, to awaken into the direct experience of oneness, that illusion of separation that you're speaking of dissolves. What a blessing for each and every one of us. And I have a very, very strong sense that what I'm speaking about is available to each and every one of us if only we're willing to let go of the past, let go of our beliefs, let go of our ideas and concepts, and really relax deeply into the present moment. It's so true what you're saying. I know for me, my awakening moment was in 2007. And I didn't start living in oneness right away, because when you're still immersed and surrounded by people who are still immersed in that illusion, and you even try, I know I tried, I was so excited. I was like, I tried to share it with other people, and they just didn't get it. And so then you kind of like start to wonder, well, am I crazy? But I didn't really start to think, was I crazy? I just, they're not getting it. I know I got it. I understood it, and I believe it. And for me, it's true. But other people around me are not getting it, so it's hard for me. At that time, it was hard for me to actually live in the truth of oneness when no one else around me was living in the truth of oneness. This year, so that was in 2007. Here is now 2015. I've been through a lot since then, and I've decided, you know, I don't care how other people are living. I mean, I do care. In a sense, I care about others because they are one with me. But I'm not going to allow how other people are living their lives to assess my truth. I'm going to start living day-to-day, moment-to-moment, in the oneness that I know is real. I don't know if I'm making any sense there. But I do see... Go ahead. You're making perfect sense. In fact, it's very similar to the experience that I had after my first awakening in 1981. Initially, I began to share what I'd experienced with others, and all I encountered was their doubts. And it was very easy for me to take that doubt on and begin to doubt myself and doubt my own experience. But very quickly, I realized to stop sharing it with others who are not ready or not interested. And it takes a little time to settle in and have the courage to be here even if no one else is, which is what you're saying. It's the same thing. I had exactly the same experience. But the good thing is, Carolyn, you've probably experienced this yourself. In 1981, when I first awakened, there were very few people who were awake, and very few people, at least in Australia where I lived, very few people who were awake, very few people who were interested, and very few people who knew what I was speaking about. But the good news is, the time between 1981 and now, there's been a fairly dramatic shift in consciousness, and I just find that so many people are ready, so many people can hear what I'm saying about awakening, so many people are interested. As long as they have a very clear way that they can approach their own awakening, then that makes it easy for them. True, true, very true. And what you're saying is totally correct. I especially see it on the Internet, in documentaries and films, and all over the Internet, YouTube and whatnot. I stopped watching mainstream news after 9-11, so I don't watch much television, so mainstream media is not something I watch. But I'm very active online, and especially the online community, you can see that there are so many organizations dedicated to helping awaken the world to oneness, that you can see it's definitely growing. It's definitely a different day and age than in the 80s and 90s. Right. Yeah, we're definitely experiencing a shift in consciousness, and I believe it's a positive thing, and more and more people can feel free to live it, to live it day by day. But tell us more about your journey into the now. I know I just recently became familiar with your work, and I was so impressed. I contacted you right away, and you agreed to come on the show right away. Thank you so much. You and Mary are awesome. I read The Power of Now many years ago, and when I first tried to read The Power of Now, probably back when it first was published, which I'm not sure when that was, in the early 2000s, I didn't understand a word of it. I opened up, I read the first chapter, and I put it back down. But after my awakening in 2007, I picked it back up, and I couldn't put it down. I understood every single word. So could you just share with us, your listeners, more of what you're teaching, just so they have an idea of who you are? Sure. The first thing I would say is that it's very important for us to recognize and realize that everyone on this planet is already a fully awakened, enlightened being, existing in oneness. Oneness with God and all that is. So that's a simple truth. Everyone is an eternal being. The problem is, to the extent that we've become absorbed into the world of the mind, which is a world of illusion, based in past memory and future imagining, to that extent we disconnect from the truth that is ever-present. And as long as we keep thinking, we remain caught and imprisoned within the world of the mind. And the truth is, for most people, those thoughts never stop. They just keep coming whether you're intending to think or not. And so that means that as long as we're addicted to thinking, as long as we can't stop thinking, then we remain imprisoned within the world of the mind because all thoughts are past, future, and all thoughts take us into the world of the mind. So what has arisen within me as a part of this teaching is a very simple way to come out of the mind, out of the past and future, into the present. And this is what I call Step 1 of my two-step dance of awakening. Step 1, essentially, is learning the art of being present. And it's not an intellectual endeavour. It's not something you can achieve through stride, practice, or understanding. It's a direct entry into the present moment. And I share a simple key how we can accomplish that so simply and immediately. And it's really simply this. When you're in the mind, you're in the past and future. So in order to come out of the past and future world of the mind, you just bring yourself very, very present with something that is here in the moment with you. If you can see it, hear it, feel it, taste it, touch it, or smell it in this moment, it means it's really here. You're not imagining it. You're not remembering it. It's a part of the present moment. It's of the present moment. So the moment you're truly present with something that is here, then you come out of the mind, thoughts stop without you trying to stop them, and now you're present. And if you're truly present in this moment, then in this moment you are an awakened being. And what I suggest is that you relax, settle here. Let yourself relax and deepen here into the present moment. Then you'll know what... Then your listeners will know exactly what I'm speaking about and what you're speaking about. They'll know it from their own experience. They have to know it from their own experience, otherwise it remains a belief or an understanding. It has to be a direct experience. And the beautiful thing about what I'm sharing is that it's immediate. There's no gap. There's no practice. The moment you're present with something that's here in this moment, then you're present. You've come out of that illusory world of separation, and you just have to relax here. Now, that's step one. And, of course, there are levels of presence. You can go deeper and you can become more and more deeply present. And it's at the deeper levels of presence that the mystery is revealed, that you start to experience what the masters and the mystics have been speaking, the sages have been speaking of for centuries, whether it's Buddha or Jesus or Ramana or Lao Tzu, any of them. You begin to experience what they're speaking about at that very deep level of presence. But, you know, it doesn't always have to be a deep level of presence. What I say to people is, the real reason you choose to be present is very simple. I'd rather be in the present moment, which is the truth of life, than lost in a world of illusion, which is the world of my mind, the world of past and future. That's step one. And it's very simple. It's very immediate. We have to recognise how simple and available that is to us. In fact, it's our natural state. But people will discover that it's very easy to be present, but it's not so easy to remain present as we live our lives, in our relationships, when we go to work. It's so easy to get caught back into the story. People can trigger you, people say something or do something that catches you or triggers you. Now you're back in your story. And so that's why step two, in my view, is necessary. Step two involves, and it's a process that occurs over time, step two involves bringing conscious awareness to all the ways you're involuntarily pulled out of the present moment. What happens? What are the mechanics of that? How did that happen? How did I get caught in the mind again? What are the obstacles to my awakening? Step two involves bringing to consciousness all that is still buried in unconsciousness within you. I love the words of Jesus, these words, when he said, For me, I just love those words because it implies everything that is buried still in unconsciousness within you is brought into the light of consciousness, revealed into the light of consciousness that is you in presence. And slowly, slowly, as the whole story, the whole play of your life comes to consciousness, it starts to relax and release you. In order to release yourself from the story, you have to recognise the story that you're caught in. You have to recognise who you are in your story. And when I speak of your story, I'm really speaking of every moment outside of this moment. Everything outside of this moment is your story. Now, often there's no problem with that, but the story goes all the way back to your childhood, and it contains within it all those limiting beliefs, emotional traumas, emotional wounds that occurred in early childhood. And the truth is the story goes back further. It goes back into all your past lives. It includes the soul's journey and the soul's story. So it's very intriguing as you bring all this to consciousness and you start to recognise what happened to you, how you got lost, and how to come home to presence and oneness. Those two steps are necessary. The first step is presence, leads to presence. The second step leads to mastery of the mind and ego. And those steps are essential for true awakening. Now, of course, I'd have to elaborate on step two to really make that clear. Right. I think maybe some people may... I think a lot of people probably understand presence. It's that step two, staying there, I think, where I guess a lot of the challenges come. I know for me, just in the past few weeks when I discovered your work and listening to your different videos, it has brought me more into staying present. And I know that this is something I try to do consciously moment to moment, and I'm already awakened to oneness. I know we're all one. But staying in the present moment is kind of difficult, especially you're trying to share that with another person. Even today, I was talking to a friend. She was telling me about her health issues. And she said, yes, she knows it all stems from stress. And I was saying to her that you don't have to allow stress to affect your body the way it does. And she just had every excuse under the sun why she had, the situation had to, because of the situation, she had to be undistressed. And no matter how gently I tried to explain to her, no, that's not the case. You don't have to be undistressed. That is a choice you are making. But it's kind of hard for people to hear that when they're so used to, like you say, living in their mind. And I did, when I first read The Power of Now, I realized, wow, I am always either thinking about the past or dreaming about the future. I'm never here. I'm like very rarely, maybe less than 5% of the time am I just here and now. And like I said, since I've discovered your work and your teachings, I honestly the past three weeks or so have really practiced being present more and more. I don't do sitting meditation much unless I'm out in nature. I live by lakes. I'm a water person. I love to go to the lake. So when I'm sitting by a lake, I will do a sitting meditation. But other than that, I'm usually just trying to stay present in the moment. To me, that is a meditation. Being awake in each and every moment is a living meditation. Well, of course. I mean, you can be present washing the dishes. You can be present putting the garbage out in the morning. You can be present walking up and down the aisle of the supermarket. The way I look at it is every moment we have that choice. Do you choose to be present or do you allow yourself to be lost in the world of the mind? Now, I should make it clear that I'm in no way against the mind or use of the mind or thinking. The problem is with unconscious thinking, unintended thinking, uninvited thinking, which just keeps us in present in that world of the mind. I would say that the strongest addiction on this planet is the addiction to thinking. I would say that it's stronger than the addiction to heroin, alcohol, sex, gambling, all rolled up into one. We're all very, very addicted to thinking, and we don't seem to be able to stop it. And in fact, trying to stop it just is another thought, and it just reinforces the thinking process. Even practicing presence won't really work because you don't need to practice it. The present moment is already here. So what are we practicing for? It's already here, so it's just a question of recognizing, oh, I'm in my mind thinking. That's okay. I'm not going to judge myself. I'm not going to beat myself up. I just notice that and very gently I bring myself back to being present with something that's here in the moment. And it really doesn't matter where I am or what I'm doing. The present moment is always here waiting for me. One of the lines in one of my books simply reads, every leaf on every tree is waving to you. It is saying, here I am. Can you not see me? Will you not be present with me? I think that's so beautiful. Everything in the present moment is waiting for us to be present enough to really, really be here with it. It's quite beautiful once you recognize that. Now, you can still think. You can still live. Of course you're going to live in the world of the mind at times. What I say is, I live in the world of now, but I play in the world of time. I'm not of the world of time. I am of the world of now. And this is actually true for everyone, whether they're in touch with that or not. It's not really the point. It's true for everyone. It's the truth. I mean, the truth is, Carolyn, that everything on this planet, everything is present. Whether it's a tree, a flower, a mountain, a donkey, an elephant, a mosquito, everything is present except for us. We are the only species on the planet not present because we're lost in the mind. If we're not present, then where are we? We're in the past, in the remembered past, or the imagined future. And how did we get there? We thought our way out of the present moment into the world of the mind. And the moment you believe too strongly in your thoughts, your beliefs, your opinions, then you're going to become imprisoned within the world of the mind. That's the catch because not many people are that willing to kind of give up their firm belief in their beliefs or their thoughts. What I say is not one thought you have about anything is true. You can still have your thoughts, still have your opinions, have your beliefs, enjoy them, but know that they're not true. If they were true, then who's correct? Are the Muslims correct with their belief in God? Are the Jews, are the Christians, are the Hindus? Who's correct? It's all a huge, wonderful illusion. We're all believing in the same God, but we're willing to kill each other in the name of that God. It's totally, totally crazy. It's crazy, yes. So true. And it's so true. And for me, being present is twofold. I do try to be present in my daily walk in life, in every moment, but also be thankful. Giving thanks for each moment, giving thanks for that butterfly that just flew past. There's an owl outside my window every morning who wakes me up, just being thankful for that owl, being thankful for that woodpecker that I hear. It's like an owl and a woodpecker is always waking me up in the morning, and they like talking to each other. You know, just all the little things that, you know, all the little things you don't notice when you're so in your mind of, okay, what am I going to do, what am I, you know. When you're always in your mind, you don't notice the present. The present just passes you by. But when you're present, you notice those little things. And for me, I say thank you for every little thing that I notice in my now moment. And I believe now is all there is. I believe time is an illusion and everything is happening right now. And everything is, like you said, heaven is here right now. And all you have to do is embrace it and experience it right now in your life. And we all have that opportunity. We all have that choice. It's a choice. And a lot of us don't feel it's a choice, but I know in my heart it is a choice for all of us to embrace the now and embrace the present moment and you're embracing heaven. Jesus said that heaven is within. So there are so many religions. I personally don't subscribe to any one religion. I believe love is the truth. And long as there is love at the core of your religion, then you have truth at the core of your religion. But like Jesus said, the kingdom of heaven is within. And I ask Christians that sometimes, you know, because everybody is waiting to die to go to heaven, and I'm like, you know, where did Jesus say heaven is? He said it. He told us where it is. It's within. It's not a place. So I believe we can create our own heaven or we can create our own hell right here on earth. And it's all in the now, all in the now moment. The more present you are, the more present you are in your life, the more deeply present, the more you're going to experience heaven on earth. The more you're lost in the mind, very rigidly believing in your beliefs, the more you're going to experience hell on earth. It's as simple as that. And so the other thing is, and most people probably don't know, is that if you don't find heaven on earth here now, you're not going to find heaven when you leave the body. Right. Simple as that. So it's so important that we humans get it together and recognize the truth. Now, you speak about people having the choice. This is how I see it, Carolyn, that everybody on this earth is entitled to know that they have a choice, that there is an alternative to living exclusively within the world of the mind. And, of course, that alternative is presence. So the first step is for people to recognize, realize, and get it that there's a choice. They have a choice. They can be present or they can be lost in the mind, living within the world of the mind. But that's not enough. To know that they have a choice is not enough. We also need a very, very simple way of awakening that will enable them to exercise that choice so that they can really experience presence for themselves. And that will be step one of this teaching. But even that's not enough because we're so habituated to living within the world of the mind. It's very, very easy, as I said, to get pulled back into the story, into the mind, into the illusion. So to really, really have that choice truly and fully available to you, you have to also know how to arise in mastery of your mind and ego so that you're not going to be constantly pulled out of presence. Now, once those things are in place, then we could say people really do have that choice. And then it's up to them. They can choose to be present more and more in their lives or they can choose to live in the mind as much as they like. But it's very important for people to realise that with each choice we make, there are consequences that we will inevitably have to live with. Whether it's a choice to eat the wrong kind of food or food that's not healthy for you, sooner or later you're going to live with the consequences of that. Every choice we make has consequences. And, of course, the fundamental choice at the very heart of free will is... Now, this could be God speaking. Beloved, which world do you choose to live in? Do you choose to live in the world of the present moment where I am the Creator or do you choose to live in the world of your mind where you get to be the Creator? Which world do you choose to live in? And that's a choice that sooner or later we all have to face. Right. Well, can you share more of step two with us, more keys to mastery on how people can stay more present? Well, it's not a question so much as staying more present. It's a question of bringing awareness to what's pulling you out of presence. And so I talk about four different aspects to step two. The first aspect is the resistance of the ego. The ego is more than happy for you to pursue enlightenment. The ego is more than happy for you to be spiritual. But the ego does not know the present moment. And if you become present and your mind becomes silent, the ego is very threatened by that. And it is very skilled at pulling you out of the present moment. It's got a bag of tricks that just keeps us in prison within the world of the mind. I'll give you an example of one of its tricks. How does it keep us in the future? It's as if the whole of humanity is trapped by the ego and by this simple trick that keeps us in the future. And here it is, Carolyn. It's so simple. The promise of future fulfillment. We all fall for that. Love will be better when I get a new dress or a new coat or a new husband or a new car. That just keeps us focused into the future. Even the promise of enlightenment in the future is one of the ego's tricks. You're never going to be enlightened in the future. You're only going to be enlightened now. There's no other possibility. Because now is the doorway, the present moment is the doorway. So a very essential and key part to this teaching and to step two is to really have answers to these questions. What is the ego? How does it function? What is its role in our lives? Why does it resist our being present? And how can we overcome its resistance? And what I teach is how to come into right relationship with the ego so that it will gradually and gently relax and release you into deeper and deeper levels of presence. You cannot defeat the ego. No one in the history of humanity has defeated the ego. Not Buddha, not Jesus, not Ramana, not Eckhart Tolle, not me. No one. You have to come into right relationship with the ego and then something happens. Its role in our life is transformed dramatically. It's no longer resisting our being present. It's no longer trying to be the master. It surrenders to the true master arising from within. And of course the true master arising from within is the I am that you are. So that's the first aspect of the second step. The second aspect of the second step is rather intriguing. There's two questions that we could ask ourselves. The first question is, in truth, who am I? And my answer to that, to all of your listeners, I'm speaking to every one of your listeners, when you are present, which is the truth of who you are, you are love. You are acceptance. You are compassion. You are gratitude. You are generosity. You are empowered from within and you exist in the realisation of oneness. This is the truth of who you are and there's nothing you can do about it. You can't add to it. You can't subtract from it. It's who you are. But then we have to ask the second question, which is who have you become on this long journey through time and separation, living in a world of illusion where no one is present? Who have you become? And there's a law which I share with people which is if you deny who you've become, you will be denied the truth of who you are. But if you're willing to gently and gradually own, acknowledge and confess and reveal who you've become, then that will reveal and open the truth of who you are. It's a very strange law because most of us are used to denying or trying to fix ourselves or we judge ourselves. We're trying to fix ourselves. We go to therapists to help fix ourselves and the truth is there's nothing wrong with any of us except we're lost in the mind, lost in the story, lost in the past, without any real access to the present moment, which is the truth of who we are. When we're in the mind, we're in a state of separation. What are we separate from? We're separate from the truth of who we are, the truth of love, the truth of acceptance, the truth of oneness and the truth of God. No wonder it's painful to be lost in the illusion of separation. I agree with you, it's an illusion, but if you're lost in it, it's real. It's your experience of life. So that's the second aspect. The third aspect of the second step is to do with the repressed emotions that we all carry around with us, mostly from childhood, but of course they accumulate over the years. To the extent that we have emotions repressed within us, like anger, hurt, sadness, pain, unfulfilled needs, to the extent that we have all these repressed emotions within us, how can we be fundamentally and fully present? Because there's always going to be someone who will trigger those repressed emotions, they'll say or do something, or something will happen in your life that will trigger those repressed emotions. Then you get more and more lost in the story because those repressed emotions from the past come flooding into the present and distort our experience of the present moment. So another part of this teaching is I show people how to very gently come into a right relationship with their feelings and how to liberate those repressed feelings within us. How I describe it is we allow those repressed feelings to complete their journey through us. It doesn't take long. In fact, it's possible to release 10 lifetimes of repressed anger in about 10 seconds if you hit the right note. We have to know what anger really is and how it really functions and what it really wants in order to free ourselves from it. It's very important that we're not trying to get rid of the anger or rid of the hurt or the sadness. That would just lock it more into place because it's a form of judgment. To get rid of something, even trying to fix yourself, is a form of judgment. You're saying there's something wrong with me. Whereas you just recognize whatever shows up with love, acceptance and compassion that arises from presence. It's a beautiful and powerful alchemy of healing and awakening to come into a right relationship with your feelings. And the fourth and final aspect of the second step is just to begin the process of recognizing how we lose ourselves in others. For example, Carolyn, if I need you to agree with me, if I want you to agree with me in a very subtle way, I'm losing myself in you. If I want you to love me or approve of me or accept me in a very subtle way, I'm losing myself in you. Energetically, I'm moving from me and getting caught up in you. The truth is you're a free being. You're free to love me or not love me. You're free to accept me or reject me. It really has nothing to do with me. If you judge me, for example, then I would simply say to you, blessings upon your judgment, for you are the one who has to live in the energy of judgment, not me, unless I take it on. Now, why would I take on your judgment? How does that happen? Well, my needing your acceptance, my needing your approval, is an invitation to your judgment. Now, if I recognize that I'm just losing myself, I don't need to keep doing that, and that if I'm present, I am love, why do I need you to love me if I am love? I am acceptance. Why do I need you to accept me if I am acceptance? And so everything shifts as we recognize how we've been losing ourselves. The only other thing I would say is it's very important that we begin to bring the energy of judgment to conscious awareness as it arises within us because judgment, more than any other energy, will keep us forever in presence in the illusion of separation. God and presence are utterly without judgment. When you're present, there is no judgment. When you're present, you're just full of gratitude and generosity. It's your nature. There is no judgment. When you're present, you are love. You are acceptance. But you're also empowered from within, and you feel free to express yourself fully as the authentic and unique being that you are without concern with what others think of you, without limiting yourself because of what others might think of you. So that's really step two in a nutshell. That is so true. No, what you're saying is so true because also, for me, the whole, once I understood oneness, and I literally, when I look at another person now, I say, that person is me. I say that in my mind. I may not say that out loud to them, but I say that in my mind and internalize that. And so if I'm judging that person, I'm just judging myself. Whatever I do to another, I'm doing to myself. So that's, for me, how nonjudgment, I live my life in a way of nonjudgment, and I believe there are no villains, there are no victims. It's all just one, and the nonjudgment comes across where it's like, I believe I'm God. I'm a part of God. That other person is divine, and he's a part of God or she's a part of God, and God can't judge God. God can't judge another part of himself. So I understand what you're saying completely and wholeheartedly, and the love that anyone is looking for is already within. They are love, like you said, and if you feel you have to feel love or acceptance from another person, you're giving your power away because you already have it. It's already yours, so you don't have to get that from another person. I agree with you 100%, 1,000% on that. I've heard it said another way about when you were talking about past hurts and traumas and things that we deal, emotions that we deal with from our childhood, our other lifetimes. I've heard it said to shine a light on it. Like you said, acceptance and loving it and nonjudging it and loving that aspect of yourself because when you shine a light on it, that's when it dissolves. You don't have to, like, I have to get rid of this aspect of myself. You don't have to. When you resist it, that's when it shows up even stronger, but when you love it and shine a light on it, that's when it dissolves and disappears, the hurts from childhood and past lives. Like you said, because we only remember our hurts from this particular incarnation, but we are carrying hurts from many, several incarnations that when we look at them and love them and embrace them, then that's when they disappear. So you put it in a different, I've heard it said differently, but the terminology means the same. Well, not exactly, but it's very close. But what I say is it's very important not to deny any of these things within us, let's say our humanness. The way I put it is we need to go through a process based in presence where everything is revealed into consciousness. We own, acknowledge, confess and reveal everything that's arising within us, but with love, acceptance and compassion. So I suppose that's the same as shining a light on us because when you shine the light on it, it's the same thing really. So I guess we are saying the same thing. Yeah, I think we are. Yeah, it's very important not to bury these things under spirituality. We have to be willing and courageous enough to really, really bring everything to consciousness. Every stone is to be turned over, turn over every stone. Don't miss a thing. Whatever shows up, own it, acknowledge it, confess it and then come back to presence. You know that it's just part of your story. It's part of who you've become on your long journey through time and separation. You know, we've been on this journey for God anyway, so how can God possibly condemn us for who we've become given we've been on this journey for God in the first place? Right. I do believe that we choose to come on this journey. We choose this journey. We're creating this journey from a spiritual level and we just don't remember. Like you said, we are awakened beings, but right now we have chosen to forget who we are. Right. Yeah. So that's kind of how I look at it. And I see everybody as divine and as a part of God and as a part of me. That keeps me grounded, the whole understanding of oneness. I'd love to experience the mystic experience that I hear. Many people have had that experience with meditation and the oneness of just overwhelming love and acceptance. That's just something I know I will experience one day, and it's not something, like I said, I stay focused in the present. So it's not like, okay, oh, I can't wait, I can't wait. No, because I know that will take me out of the present. That whole, like you said, that we all think, like, if we get a new house, we get a new car, we meet our soul mate, you know, this is when we'll be happy, you know. It's always in the past. And in some religious circles, it's like, okay, we're not supposed to be happy now. We're supposed to be happy when we die and go to heaven, you know. So it's always a future thing when it's here and now. And I truly believe that's all there is, is here and now. I think it was Einstein said time is an illusion. He's actually misquoted. Many people have taken that quote of his and said, he states reality is merely an illusion. He didn't say reality. He said time. He said time is merely an illusion. And all is happening here and now. There is only here and now. So when we're not in, when we're not focusing on the here and now, we're missing. We're letting our life just kind of go by. And we are, you know, trapped in the mind, you know, trapped in an illusion. Because that's what our mind creates. It's creating this illusionary world that we're living in. And like you said, we are in this world, but not of it. It's our creation too. That's another thing that helps me is owning it. Like, okay, I'm creating this illusion. So, okay, I take full responsibility. I own it. I blame nobody. Yeah. And a lot of, you know, there are people that blame everybody under the sun, except for themselves, you know, for their, whatever situation they're in. They'll blame everybody under the sun. So also, please, share with our audience what's coming up in your near future. Well, I want to respond first to what you just said. Oh. Okay. You're absolutely correct, Carolyn. You know, so many people are looking for the big bang, for the high experience that they've read about or heard about. And that is such a trap. Because what I experienced and I've had is, I've had the big bangs as much as anybody on the planet ever has, I think. And the enlightenment experiences and all experiences, including enlightenment experiences, pass. The question is what remains. And what remains is the one experiencing, which is the I am that you are, or the I am that I am. And at the end of the day, Carolyn, after all these experiences pass, we're all left in the same place if we want to remain in the truth, which is here now. It's as simple as that. So you're absolutely correct. It's such a trap to look for those big experiences. If it happens, it'll happen by its regress. You don't need those big experiences to awaken. Absolutely not. As far as I'm concerned, you're absolutely on the right track there. Not to be seeking those things, but just keep focusing on the present moment with an attitude of love and gratitude and generosity. And if it's going to open up, it's going to open up. I've met so many people that have had very big experiences and they've become trapped by them. Okay. I see what you're saying. Yeah, I was sharing with the group about what it feels like when you're in this very deep, mystical, awakened state. And a guy towards the back of the room raised his hand. He was very excited. He said, I know what you're speaking about. I know it. I had that experience 30 years ago, and I've been miserable ever since, he said. And I asked him, why have you been miserable? I knew the answer before he answered. He said, because I've been trying to get it back. You can't hold on to anything. The constant has changed. I've never done any kind of drugs, but I hear that a lot of people that do drugs, their biggest high is the first time, and they're always chasing that initial high. That's right. And it can be the same with enlightenment experiences. Anyway, I'll come back to your question, which is what am I planning in the future? I think you asked. Yes. Well, at the moment, I'm a little bit like you. I'm living right by a lake. I can see the water right now. I'm in northern Minnesota having some R&R, some rest between my travels with Mary up here, our little dog called Bodhi. And we have a boat, so we go out on the lake. It's just gorgeous. Oh, wow. In July, I head off again. I'm going to Australia, China, and Japan to run retreats in those different countries. And then I return for a while, and then I head off again. So my life is, there's a lot of travel at the moment, sharing this teaching. So I do treasure these quiet moments by the lake. Oh, yes. Well, you're speaking my language. You're speaking my language. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. To be able to hear woodpeckers and owls in the morning, you're very fortunate. Oh, yes. I love it here. I'm in the heart of the Pocono Mountains. I'm near many lakes. I have a boat. I have a paddle boat, and I have a jet ski. Oh, wow. That sounds great. I'm on the water as often as I can, especially this time of the year. We have long winters here in the Poconos. So in spring and summer, I'm living outside because it's just, I'm a nature girl at heart, and I love the water. To me, the water is just so relaxing and calming. So that is wonderful. I would love to be able to attend one of your retreats probably. Now, you have something coming up in California. What, is it October? The SANS convention? Oh, yes, yes. I'm speaking at the non-dual, the SANS conference, the Science and Non-Duality Conference. And then, of course, we have our next retreat in America is next May of 2016. Oh, okay. But I do do regular, when I'm in the country or at home, I do regular live video webcasts, which are broadcast pretty much all over the world. We get emails from people from just about everywhere. It's amazing. Algeria, Egypt, China, pretty much everywhere. It's very encouraging to know that people all over the world are becoming interested in their own awakening. Yes. Actually, that's kind of what I love about this radio show. It's an Internet radio show. All my shows, people can listen to live, anytime after they air, anywhere in the world. I've gotten emails from a lady in Africa, from Canada. So it reaches the world, and I love that. To me, I call that residual inspiration because you record it one hour a week, and it's there for the world to listen to. Now, how often do you do your webcasts? Well, the schedule is on our website, which is LeonardJacobson.com. But there might actually be one. It's not scheduled yet, but I'll do one. Let's see, what date would that be? Towards probably between the 7th and the 14th of July, which is when I'll be back in California for a week. Okay. But it'll be posted on our website. On the website, okay. And I do have a link to your website on my website if anyone's interested. They can always find it there as well. And also, can you tell the audience I know what SANS is? Because I'm hoping to make it to SANS this year. But could you explain to the audience what SANS is? Well, I've never been there before. I was invited to speak. I don't know a lot about it, but I know it's going to be in San Jose in California. And it's a fairly, I think, a fairly well-known conference. It's just called the Science and Non-Duality Conference. Conference, yes. So I guess it's the coming together of science and people who are involved in non-dual awakening. Right. Which is very intriguing. I always say on this show, it's science and spirituality are really speaking the same language. And science refers to oneness as non-duality. And spirituality, people refer to it as oneness. But it means the same thing. So, oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, that's very true. But at the end of our journey, we'll find that both science and the spiritual seeker will have to let go of it all and become silent. When you're truly present, your mind is silent. You cannot reach to presence and oneness with the mind. It's just impossible. So at some point, we'll all come together, whether it's science or non-duality or any spirituality. We will come together, but it will be in silence and oneness. It's a silent realisation of oneness, which is what happened to you. Right. True, true, true. I mean, that didn't arise because of your mind. Something that somebody said or you read that sentence, it triggered something within you that took you transcendent of your mind. And your minds need to understand. And your minds need to conceptualise. It's a transcendent state, the state of presence and oneness. So the beautiful thing is that sooner or later, even science will reach that point where they'll realise, OK, we've come to this point, but there's nothing beyond it. And, of course, that's a very significant statement. There's nothing beyond it. Nothing. Nothing there. Silence. Eternal silence. Pure consciousness beyond form and beyond content. You can't reach to that with science, and you can't reach to that with your mind in any way. It's a transcendent experience, and the present moment is the doorway to that transcendent experience. I agree with you 100%. Also, I agree that words can't even really explain it. Words are so limiting, and they can't really explain it. But I do agree with you 100%. We are actually down to the hour already. This has been so wonderful. Thank you so much. And I will definitely keep in touch on the website. I'll keep in touch and follow and see where you are. And I will try very hard to get to your next retreat here in the U.S. and to the SANS Convention in October. Thank you, and I'll get to meet you in person. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Winner. And please thank Mary for me. She's been so wonderful arranging this for us. I am so thankful to both of you. Blog Talk Radio has a way of just cutting us out, and we have, like, 30 seconds. So thank you and good night. I'll be in touch. Okay. Thank you, Carolyn. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.