Countdown To Daughter from Hell: Gracie Abrams in conversation w/ Olivia Rodrigo

I didn't want to text you about it, so I was like, I'm going to ruin the tour. Oh my god. The world tour. We're at Cherry Lane Theatre. Yes. I've always wanted to come. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. I'm very excited to be here and talk about this record that I love and I got access to a few days ago, which is just very awesome. I've been listening to it a bunch. I have that link. I'm so scared that it's going to leak and I'm going to be the patient zero of the leak. I was like, no way. I have to encrypt this. You're the super spreader. Yeah, I'm the super spreader. Thank you for doing this and for listening to it early. And also, just a nice excuse to be together. I know. We saw each other at a Met Gal afterparty and we were like, oh my god, we get two hours to hang out. That never happens. Yeah, it's so rare. I was just like, two ships passing in the night. I know. You just came from Barcelona. Yes. It was very fun. You're everywhere. You're everywhere at once, somehow. I remember virtually meeting you over Instagram DM. Oh, yeah. When we were this big. Literally babies. Yeah. Oh, that's actually so sweet. I do remember that. And I don't think we saw each other again until Sour tour. Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh my god. That's so crazy. Yeah, we were on tour together so much. So much more. Do you remember that last night and we did that prom thing? Yes. I got norovirus that night. Oh my god. I'm so sorry. I was vomiting on the plane ride home that next morning and I didn't want to text you about it. So I was like, I'm going to ruin the tour. Oh my god. The world tour. Oh my god. Anyway. That's so funny. But I remember finding your Instagram. It's so funny that the songwriters have Instagram these days. It's like how it happens. But I remember finding it when I was like 14 or 15 and truly I'm not blowing smoke. I remember being so inspired by you and sort of like you and people like that but especially watching you play piano or play guitar in your room and write all these beautiful songs was very inspiring to me as a young person just being like, oh, I don't need to go into a studio or do all this crazy ----. I can just be in my room and write about my life in a way that was so inspiring to me and your music has always been so inspiring, truly. Well, that's how I feel about yours. And this record is no exception. I listened to it and I was like, I got to go right now. I'm so inspired. There's just something. I think that that's the coolest thing that you can do as an artist. That's always the goalpost for me if I can write something that inspires someone else to want to pick up a guitar or moves them in some way that they feel like they need to express themselves. I feel like that's a job well done and your music is totally 100% that for me. Thank you. So tell me about the title of the album, which I love. Thanks. And then I want to go track by track because I ******* love it and I have so much to say. Let's do it. Okay, great. Daughter From Hell is a track on the album. Yes, love that track. It's one of my favorites. Thank you. That was one of the last, I think maybe like second, maybe it was the last song you wrote. It was one of the last days in the studio for the album and it felt so obvious to me as soon as I wrote it that that would be the title, which was amazing because I've never had that feeling with naming things in the past. It's hard. It's really tough. It's hard and this felt so right and I feel like throughout the process of this whole album, how do I say it? I think actually what it really is is in having time to sort of hibernate, hearing my own voice inside my body again for the first time, there's just like more clarity that comes with that and I was sort of letting that feeling dictate lots of the choices around this album. So Daughter From Hell is a song that really is a love letter to my mom. Make her cry. I know and like an apology. Yeah. And also like a big reveal that I don't know if I will ever live up to the woman that she is. Oh my God. I know. I really like it. I'm trying to not think about it. What was it like when you played it for her? I literally teary-eyed. I listened to the song. That was the song. I was on the plane and I was like, oh my God. I sobbed the whole time I wrote it. I sobbed the whole time. But what I like about it though is I feel like I've tried to write a song about my mom and it's just such an intense feeling of love that I can't do anything. I'm just like... But the song has like restraint and is so beautiful. It's not super overt. The first time I listened to it, I didn't know what it was about. I was like, oh my God. Yeah, totally. It's so beautiful. Thank you. Aaron was playing. We were making it in London. He was playing this amazing baritone. He was just playing the baritone guitar and it was in this great open tuning and I made me feel like my ribs were cracking open. Yeah. And I went into... I don't know how your brain works in sessions but if there's music playing, like if he's working on a track, for example, building something out, I cannot hear anything. So I will leave the studio, whether it's outdoors or just into a different booth or whatever, where it's completely silent and I'll write everything that I hear and then I'll come back and be like, does that make sense? And so I left and I went into... I went into a room by myself and I started writing it and I was crying in a way where then when I was in there, I was like, how do I go back with my eyes get so swollen? When I cry, I look like I have an allergic reaction. Huge, puffy, awful. And I was like, I need to lie. I need to lie. What horrible thing happened? London allergies. Yeah, God, it's really bad. And then, anyway, I went back in the studio and did the whole thing and it just really hurt in a great way. It just ached. It aches. It aches and I love my mom. I call her all the time. I love her. That's the song. I'm hoping I can be the kind of person that she is. It's so beautiful. It's so intense and layered. Obviously, the love is so palpable, but it's the wanting to live up to it. There's almost an element of shame or something in it. No, no, no. It's shame for me, for sure. But in a way that just is so moving and just pulls on your heartstrings like crazy. And I was so excited when that song came on, too. The sonics of it are so beautiful and I'd never heard you do anything like that before and it was really thrilling to me as the listener. Thank you. It felt heavy and raw. Thanks. I loved it a lot. Thank you. I think the reason that that felt like the right title as well is because I would not have at any point prior to that day and at this age in my life had the perspective to write it. And I was brutal growing up to my parents. I was really hard on them. And I think when you're in a place where your relationships with your family are full of intense friction, you never believe. When you're a kid and that's your reality, you never think they'll be different. And you certainly never think you'll want as much time as you can get with them. And I think the way that I feel right now in terms of the kind of fun we're talking about and peace we want to sustain and having our feet rooted where we are, I don't know what it is, probably the times that we're living in and the amount of pain in the world, but none of us have any idea how long we're going to be here. And I want as much of my time left here spent with the people that I love. And there's no one in the world I love the way that I love my mom. And so this album as a whole, I think, like, regardless of that song, like, I think I was careful about writing about conflict and pain from less of a place of pointing fingers and more so of having been on both sides, like, of both the protagonist and the antagonist of each song. Like, there's songs about tough friendships or, you know, kind of a breakup, and it's like I've now lived long enough to have been both the unreliable friend and both the person who's been dumped, like, the person that's left. And I was careless in the past writing music about how it might impact the subject, and I don't like that. I don't like having done that. I wish I could go back and fix it, and I feel like moving forward, starting with this album, just... I think there's a way that you can write music about people and be as honest as you want and need to be and deliver it without cruelty. Sure. So I think I... I don't know. Maybe this album is, like, full of just, like, new aspirations for the kind of adult I hope I become. I love it. I mean, creatively, it does have, like, a lot of, like, restraint in a way that I find so beautiful and so hard to pull off. I think sometimes when I'm writing songs too, I'm, like, the knee-jerk reaction is to be like, ugh, here's, like, everything. Of course, though. And you just, like, put it so beautifully and tactfully, and yeah, there's so many, like, layers. I listen to it twice, and the first time I listened to it, I loved it, and the second time I listened to it, I was like, oh, my God, there's so many more things that I, like, can, like, unpack, and I think that that's so exciting for a listener and just, like, keeps you on the edge of your seat. And I'm sure, like, my fifth and sixth listen, I'll still find more to talk about. All right. Okay. Ready? Mm-hmm. Cheese. Ah. Wait, just give her a sec. You got it. She's thinking about it. Ah! That's a true candle right there, baby. Now what? Now we start drinking. Okay, woo! Gus Fritz home. Um, shall we look over there? Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Do one, like, maybe, like, lying on the table. Yeah, I'm creative directing this ----. Is this sturdy enough? No. Here, I'll come around this side. Cute. Good night. Bye. Cold goodbye. It's a single art that I just took. In what world is this the mattress? I'm like, is it time to hide now? It's like sardines. Okay, um, you know what would be cute? What if we got our shoes together? Yeah, love. Okay. Yeah, you'd be cute. In the light, in the light. Yeah. The stars. We don't have enough people. This is terrible. Wait, that's kind of cute. For who? For me. Walking through the nexus of the ideas and, like, what you were trying to, you know, express and how it started and what it looks like, like, making it. This album started technically two years ago while we were on tour for Secret of Us. The day that we recorded That's So True and I Told You Things, I also wrote Cold Goodbyes and recorded that song and that was, like, kind of a funny... Damn, that's a productive day. It was a productive day, but it was also this funny, like, backwards start for this album that I didn't anticipate. Right, because Cold Goodbyes is the last song. Last song, and, like, it felt like this... Looking at it now, I'm like, it's such a nice kind of spiderweb of how all these songs are connected. Can you write stuff on tour? Like, are you, like, in a bus? It's a totally rare day. You know what I mean? I have an OP... Do you have an OP1? Yeah. Okay, that's, like, my favorite toy. I don't know how to use it very well yet. You have to teach me. Every time I do it, it's like, oh, okay, I made a ringtone. Like, it sounds so off. Me, at the beginning, I hit the wall. No, it totally... It's the best thing. I'll show you, I'll show you. It gets deeper. I still need to learn, like, all the inner workings, but on tour, I feel like when I'm not... Like, Secret of Us is so acoustic guitar heavy that when the show is over, I'm like, I don't want to look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get that guitar out of here. So I would just use the OP1, which was a great start for finding kind of weird sounds that all made their way into the album. But sometimes, on the hamster wheel of, like, tour, or sometimes maybe, like, answering the same question over and over again, there's this weird, uncomfortable silencing of your own, like, internal voice for both of us. I know, not to speak for you, but I know how, like, writing is the way we process. So I was scared when tour ended at the idea of making something new because I thought I had nothing to say and I also didn't really like myself. Like, I didn't like how I was feeling when I was alone, which was rare all of a sudden. It was, like, new to be alone all of a sudden. And Aaron has always kind of been this medicine when I felt that way. And when I felt at my best, like, there was something about his, there's something about his playing that always makes me feel awake to a feeling that I wasn't looking at or that I didn't feel I could, I don't know, didn't have the capacity to articulate or something. That's a gorgeous way of putting it. Wow, I love that. He's like a wizard. Did you make the whole album with Aaron? Yeah. And Dan worked on Look at My Life, which was amazing. I was like, I feel like we need, like, some, like, slamming Dan right now for this. Anyway, so then when we started working on it in the studio, there were, like, some really fun days and some totally depressing days where I felt like we were flailing and I had the kind of fear of, is this not working at all? And, like, are we not going to collaborate on this next one together? And it was, you know, with his patience and support and encouragement and I think my time, like, having real time for the first time in four years. Yeah. How long did it take to make this? Well, it technically started two years ago, but then really, like, August of last year until a month ago, two months ago. Okay, wow. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard to, like, have no distractions and focus on the writing. I feel like in our jobs, it's kind of a weird thing that I've been realizing lately I'm like, I love writing songs. That's the reason, like, you and I, I think, got into this is because there's just something addicting about, like, expressing something and it being exactly the way that you wanted to say it and, like, just, like, that's the bread and butter of, like, I think, like, why we got into it and why we love it and it's, but it's really hard to carve out time to be like, I'm just going to focus on this. I'm going to, like, be inspired and, like, give my all to it because there's just so many things in the world and also you've been on tour for so long and you're like, I want to see my family and my friends and, like. Yeah, I think it's, like, you want to, like, be able, like, I definitely feel like on this album I referenced in a few places what, like, the strange fishbowl feeling, but also I want to be able to write about, like, life outside of doing the thing and for me, like, you, I wonder how it has unraveled for you, but, like, I had no ambitions to be a performer in any sense. I just loved writing, so all of these wild opportunities that are so lucky that have come as a result of the writing, like, were never on my bucket list, but then what we were saying, again, before cameras is that, like, there's so much that can be made to feel like it's an emergency or it's the biggest deal or, like, everyone is looking at you, everyone cares and it's, like, in reality that isn't remotely true and the world is so big and I'm grateful to tour that it, like, lets you remember that, you know, in many ways, but right now, like, when I think about this album, writing it from a place of not being able having thought there was anything to say, I actually, like, this is, this album to me, it feels like it is, it is defining my, this decade, like, being in our 20s where it's this in-between. What's your favorite lyric off the record? My favorite lyric, I think there's a song called Humming. Yeah, I love that one. That was when you were talking about, like, how there's so much pain in the world and we live in these crazy times, like, that's a song that I thought about. It's called Humming It's such a beautiful way to sort of frame that. I think that song Humming, it's like a beautiful, positive, it's like, there's all this, I mean, you have your own meaning to the song, but from my perspective, I was like, there's just all this awful cruelty going on in the world and it's like, that can turn you bitter and angry and I'm sure it does, but also it turns you, you know, also very soft and like, this is the thing that's the most important and like, and connects people in it. Yeah, I find it so confusing to be our age right now where, like, we've grown up with the kinds of leaders that, like, are in office right now, for example, and I think that the amount of power they have and using it to invoke fear and to make people feel unsafe is like, for that to be our example at the highest level in our government right now is like, really upsetting and really, really confusing and I think is, in many ways, so purposeful to make us feel so afraid that we then disconnect as a result of our helplessness and I feel like lots of the songs, to me, feel like more existential than diaristic, but that song in particular, the lyric that comes to mind when you ask that question is, I'm convinced our sinking ship will sink haunting hymns keep echoing after we're in the ground and I think when I wrote that, I think it comes from this place of understanding or just having eyes and ears and a heart and, like, knowing that so many people are in the midst of such despair and pain and, but that I really do believe in us, like, I do believe that there are more of us than them and my, you know, just more light and I, and I hope, and I, I have hope for us yet and, um, yeah, anyway. Okay, I'm gonna pull up the, yes, the track because I have so much to say. Tell me about Hit the Wall. I love it so much. It's so beautiful. I can't wait to hear it live. Thank you. I love the lyrics. I know it's so fun live right now. Thank you. Tell me, tell me about how that came to be. I was here. We made it at Electric Lady. Cute. Um, yeah, and we were, like, sort of in the middle of the process of making lots of different fragments of things and feeling quite disconnected. I was like, what the ****? I was like, I don't know. I was like, I think I was right that I have nothing to say. What's going on? And I, honestly, I was really missing Audrey. And I was walking from Chelsea down to the studio and, like, so, so corny. I was, crying. Like, I had my, sunglasses on. I was, walking down and I kept being like, really, like, crying in a way that it was like, I missed her. I wanted to call her. It was like, it was like, I tried to FaceTime her and she was asleep. It was like, such a cute loneliness that was, just, kind of, tearing me apart inside that day and, I got to the studio and Aaron had been there earlier than I, than I got in and he had, he had been making what was the beginning of that song, the samples that you hear at the beginning are his, him sampling himself playing piano and making this weird kind of great loop and then playing these chords that just, it perfectly matched how you're feeling. How I was feeling. It was like one of those, like, moments that like, makes you remember how lucky we are to get to, have the instinct to write things and make things when it just connects in that way. And, I don't know how, I have so many questions for you about your process but like, which you've been asked I'm sure a trillion times but, but like, for me on this album there were a handful of songs Hit The Wall being one of them where I remember being like, okay, I'm going to sit down and write this and I forget the entire, I don't, black out and then the song is done and hearing it back it just, I was like, oh, I know this was going to be the introduction to the album. I love how we produced it and I, I feel like I needed to put words to, yeah, a lot of the feelings that like, I knew I was carrying on tour but, Did it feel like a catharsis? Yeah, it was, again, it was like the vomiting up of like, kind of intrusive thought to an extent but also feeling like once you have somewhere to put it it's less heavy. Hell yeah. Yeah. I love it so much. Thanks. It's been stuck in my head. The other one that's been stuck in my head like, in a way that's annoying is Men Like You. It's not annoying, I love it. Yes, oh my god, I'm so glad. I literally was going to bed last night and like, the like, post-chorus thing, I was like, oh my god, I can't get it out. Yeah, so annoying. So good, so good. Actually, I think Death Wish is my favorite song. Oh, thank you. I remember watching the video of you performing at the O2 and being like, oh my god, that song is so, so beautiful and every lyric feels so poignant. Like, it feels like there's no filler lyrics in it, it's just like, perfect and I love that song and that was another one that was making me really misty-eyed yesterday and can't talk about it. Like, it was so, so gorgeous. Thank you. Um, Daughter From Home we talked about, that one, that one really got me. I like called my mom after I listened to it and I'm like, hey, I love you. Minibar is so good. You wrote it with Audrey, right? Yes, we wrote that the same way we did, that's so true. Oh, really? So I feel like there's kind of like a zippy, like, They feel like sisters, for sure. Afflictions also, one of my favorites that really got me. I think it's so beautiful. Thank you. I think, and that's something that I've been kind of like toying with in my own record is like, it's really hard to write a love song without feeling like, yay, like, this guy's hot, my life's so cool right now. Yeah, no, it's brutal. You know what I mean? But that song really captures what it feels like to be in love in a way that's like, kind of like gut-wrenching. And I just adore it. There's so many lines in there that I love. Thank you. I loved writing it. Yeah. I'm just like, it is that pure. Yeah, it's that, it's that safe. but it also feels like really mature. Like, it feels like a very mature love song of like a, like it feels like the love is very deep and not superficial and that's something that's really hard to. It is. I'm like, it is. But it's like, you know, I don't know, because I also, I don't know how it is for you, but like I, I'm like, I think, I'm trying to like visualize the track list, but I'm like, I think that is the one. Are you looking at it? I mean, there's other songs about relationships, but that is the, that is the love song. Yeah. Because I've, I can't write about it much. Like, I find it, like I find it when I've tried to write about it before, it's like kind of diminishes what it actually feels like. Yeah. And. It's super hard to capture. Yeah. But that, I, that is super rare. Yeah. So I'm, I'm happy it's on there. I love that one so much. Thank you. That one makes me really emo. I can't wait to hear you sing it. What's your favorite song on the record right now? I love playing The Knife right now. Live is like, it's such a band song and the band sounds so good playing it and Men Like You is really fun, but it kind of is sometimes like vocal gymnastics sometimes, like. Yeah, that's hard. But it's great. It's a good, it's a good time. I like you. I love you. I know, I know. It makes me laugh. For a girl. Yeah, okay, I'll be sad. Okay, give like, this is my office. Don't come around here no more. Don't come around here. Three, two, one. Oh, well, wait, what the hell? Okay, and now, and you seem so sad for a girl. Yeah, okay, I'll be sad. Okay. Three, two, and hold it. Heaven. Great. Okay, now, but, but now you're so in love. Three, two, one. And almost. Heaven. Great. We're really having a story here. Yeah, we're really, yeah. It's a visual arc. We used to play this game as kids called Emotional Theater where, before we went to bed, we'd like, face, like, backs to my dad and he'd be, like, shocked. Oh, this is, this is beautiful for you. Maybe, love. I saw this thing on TikTok the other day where, like, families are, it's like, you choose a number and it's, seven, and they have to, act out what, like, they can go emotionally seven, or like, purple. give me, give me pink. Pink? Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Hold it, three, two, one. That's gonna be nice, the mirror detail. Yup. Here, how about this? Okay, selfie, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Maybe on the mirror thing because it'll be nice and glowy. Okay, ready? Three, two, one. Wait, I'm curious, you said, you said that performing was never on your, like, bucket list as an artist. I'm curious what is on your bucket list. I feel like it's shifted in the past year because of certain people that I've met or the way that I've, like, been reminded of what makes me feel the most challenged and, like, curious and that's, you know, a lot of that has to do with the people that I've been lucky enough to surround myself with, like, back at home and, like, artists that I've met as a result of this kind of, like, nurtured home environment, I suppose, and, like, an eclectic mix of artists. Like, even talking about the movie, like, that was not ever something that I thought I would, like, even dare to consider attempting and, like, but I met this amazing woman whose brain, like, thrills me and the idea of being in more rooms with people that are, like, so much smarter than me and whose work moves me, whether it's, like, music or sculpture or food or whatever the thing is. I'm like, I think my bucket list, like, right now is to try to surround myself with people who make me feel like that. You know what I mean? And, like, what you're saying, it's just, like, fun. Yeah. How did the movie come about? Like, what was the process of doing that? Helena Raine. She's so great. I love her. She's just so, she's so smart and so strange and, like, I love her work and when I met her a few years ago, like, down the street, actually, we got breakfast and I just felt like I had known her before. Like, there was some weird... Kismet thing. Yeah. And she sent me this script to read which, like, to me was the end of the road. I was like, this is just so cool that you're letting me read this thing. And then, just auditions and things and blah, blah, blah and now she's letting me try so that'll be nice. I'm so excited. Where are you guys filming it? Are you filming it here? In... No, in Europe. Okay. Yeah. I'm so excited. I can't wait. I'm excited. How are you feeling about going back out on the road right now? Like, with the... I don't know. I feel like you... I've... It's been lovely to, even though we don't see each other every day, like, grow up together. And I feel like you seem so in your skin. Aw, thanks. And so, as a friend and fan, I'm curious how you feel about, like, re-emerging. Aw, I appreciate that. Yeah, that's such a big compliment. Um, I feel really good. I feel like my perspective has shifted a little bit. I think I used to, like, really, like, almost, like, beat myself up over things in a way where I was like, this song's not good enough to perform on stage. And that's fine, and that's how you grow, and it's, like, good to have, like, an internal self-critic. Sometimes I think that's how you, like, evolve a little bit as an artist, but I feel like I'm still evolving, but I just really think that music is, like, this beautiful forum where people can connect and feel joy and feel catharsis. And, like, I don't know, something, like, clicked in my brain where I'm like, if that's what it is, like, why am I killing myself? Yeah, like, this should be joyful and wonderful, and, like, there's so much, it's not being lazy, it's just, like, there's so much joy in the work, and, um, yeah, I'm feeling really good, I'm feeling really excited, and, uh, yeah, we'll see how that goes. I know. I'm sure it'll be fun, but, um. I wanna do, are you, well, oh my god, wait, just, we have to talk about your Glastonbury set. That was, that was, that was a true highlight of the weekend. Thank you. That was, like, first of all, the best weekend of my life in terms of, like, the most fun I have ever had. Most love I've ever felt to people around you. we, our whole group, I can't remember who we were sprinting from, but, it was one of those, like, no one was looking at the clock, and I look at the clock, I was like, everyone, get in line. Like, the hardest I've ever run to anything in my life, and we were, I cried, like, three times watching you. It was the most insane thing, and I had to, like, get up on shoulders to be like, I need to see the full scope of this ******* crowd. It was like, felt like the whole planet was there, and I kept just thinking back to, like, watching you perform for the first time, and then seeing that, and it's just, you're the same, like, you're a very evolved person, but you are like, it gives, it restores one's faith in how this whole thing can run, that, like, truly decent people who believe in, like, the dignity of others gets to, like, reign supreme at Glastonbury. I was like, it really was amazing. What did it feel like? Did it feel like I think it did? It was, like, truly one of the most magical experiences of my whole life, and I've had this, like, I just want to cry for you again. It was so gorgeous. I was so happy that you were there, and we got to, like, see each other in passing, but I have, like, only ever had, like, you know when you're, like, writing a song and it feels like the heavens open up and they, like, give you a song and you're like, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And it's very rare. Like, I feel like I have, like, maybe three songs on the album where that happened. Like, it's a beautiful, rare, it's like catching a butterfly in the air. It's, like, wonderful, but I only ever had that writing songs. I feel like I had that for the first time performing at Glastonbury. Like, I felt out of my body. I was just like, okay, I'm here, and I'm, like, letting the, like, ******* universe flow through me right now. You're like, I am the vessel. It was so weird. I had a panic attack backstage. I was like, I can't do this, and literally the second my boot stepped on stage, I was like, oh. Oh, I can. Like, I love this. This is amazing. Yeah. But it was so great, and, like, we have a shared love for England, too, and I feel like that just solidified my, like, love for England and English music and, like, I can't wait to go again. We have to go next year and not perform so we can just have so much fun. Well, that's the fantasy. Yeah. I'm like, let's just get a tent. Yeah, let's get a tent and let's go all year. You didn't camp, did you? No, I didn't. You guys camped, though, We camped hard. Was it fun? Camped, as in, like, I slept maybe two hours the entire weekend. Like, you checked our steps. But you got to come on Friday, too, right? Friday, like, 7.30. And also, Laura, she put out her album that morning, so it was one of those, like, everything felt, like, correct, you know? Love. Such a joy. Well, there's a reason we're not behind the camera. Yes. That's cute of you. That one's cute of us. It's just the vague idea of us. Wait, where's our... Where's our... Oh, yeah. That'll be nice. That's our mirror one. Oh, yeah. That'll be nice in two hours. Two hours in, like, a coloring session. Well, listen. Yeah, I can show you some cute ones of Liv. That's cute. Look how beautiful she looks. Look at my pretty friend. So pretty. She's so pretty. So pretty. This is painful. Which one? No, thank you. Wait, I just thought that's a camera. You didn't like... As someone who just, like, loves you and watches you, I feel like your style has, like, never been cooler. Like, love your haircut so much. I feel the same way about you, girl. Thank you. Yeah, so how does that... How does that, like, play into things? Is that, like, an afterthought sort of thing, or is it something that you were thinking about while you were making the record? No, I was certainly not thinking about anything visual. Like, honestly, no. In the same way that you... And I don't know how... It seems like your brain works, like, both at once at 100%. It's tough sometimes, but... Well, it doesn't seem tough. It's just flawless. But I feel like the... Again, everything that comes outside of the writing is, like, extra to consider. And I think more than anything, like, I have found, as I have continued to cut my hair off, I feel more like myself. That's great. So that's been nice, and I think, like, I look back on even the last tour, you know, aesthetic, being in dresses, for example. I'm like... The person I am today, I'm like, I don't know that I will ever perform in a dress, like, ever. Just ---- like this, you know what I mean? Being in this decade, things change quick. Yeah. You're just finding out who you are in front of people. You know, it's... Yeah, now I have, like, no hair left to put a bow in. I'm like... No bow left. But I have so much, like, softness, like, fondness for those times. But I think it's interesting now, like, all the visuals for this album have felt as... They've naturally unfolded to me at the same speed that the album itself did. And, you know, Spencer Singer, who's my dear friend and stylist, he is so brilliant and, like, knows me so well now that I think everything that I put on every day, when I, like, get to sit down and talk about the music or what we... the way we shot the cover, this amazing photographer, Julie Greve... Love that photo. ...shot it. She's... She's so amazing. I've been a fan of hers for so long, and I think the way that she captures, like, girlhood in her work is really different. It feels very raw, and I guess I just wanted... I guess I just wanted all of this to feel not like I'm putting on a costume ever. No, for real. There's no artifice to be found in any of it. In, like, the visuals, in the songwriting, I think that's, like, my favorite part of it. It just feels so you. There's, like, no... Sometimes it's fun to do a little artifice. A million. Every now and again, but, like, I love this record because it just feels so raw and, like, without any fabrication. That's how your moment is to me right now. Really? Oh, thank you. Yeah. It feels easy for you. Everything right now feels really, really aligned for you. So I feel like, I don't know, even sitting with you today, it feels... I think it's just like we're growing up. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I know. We should be really stressed right now. Why aren't we sweating? I think it's just like... When did you... When did your first record come out? How old were you? Well, for EP, I was, I think, 19 or something. Yeah. Which is love. I love that EP so much. But, yeah, I just feel like... How old were you? Sour came out when I was 17. What the ****? I know. Isn't that weird? That's so upsetting. Really weird. That's so crazy, Olivia. Jesus. But you're just like... Olivia. But, yeah, I just feel like just as normal, but take the job away from it, you're just, like, finding out who you are as a person so much. Like, the last five years, like, I couldn't feel more different and more evolved and, like, it's just so much fun that we have, like, such a blank canvas to, like, project that onto with our work and stuff like that. And I feel like I really see that in you, too. The album feels like you've grown so much. Obviously, like, I love the new sonics and, like, it's weirder and cooler and more interesting and I adore it. And also just, like, the topics that you're talking about, I, like, feel like just as a fan of yours, like, I couldn't have been on, like, Secret of Us. Like, I feel like you've grown so much as a person and it's really evident. Thank you. And that's always just very exciting and I'm so proud of you and adore you. Well, I really appreciate it so much and I guess, like, I, that is, that is how I am witnessing you in this moment, you know, and I think it's a relief not just as someone who also writes music and does this, but, and not just as a friend, but as, like, a, you know, a woman in the same decade as you. I think you, again, that we talked about at the very beginning of this thing, that, like, there is room and there is time and, I think, allowing ourselves to really be where we are and it's all gonna be okay and I'm just happy to know you and love you. Oh, lucky to know you, too. And with that. And with that, shall we skip off into the sunset? Oh, Lord. Cute! Mwah!