Breaking Down Andrew Thomas' Injury + Giants Mailbag | 886

Hello and welcome back to Talkin' Giants. Today is August 29th, 2025. It's Talkin' Giants brought to you by SeatGeek. And we have a mailbag for you today. Also going to wrap up some notes on the Giants 53-man roster. We're getting close to the final 53. We got the initial 53. The Giants made two waiver claims as well. One of them is going straight to IR anyway. So he won't even be on the 53 to start the year. Then he'll be eligible to come back in week five. we'll go through it we'll talk about it all i also did a little bit of a nose dive that i'm not i'm not proud of it you know you're proud that you're doing good work but not happy about the little bit of nose dive i did into the liz frank injury and the liz frank ligament uh what andrew thomas is currently struggling with right now not currently thrilled about that so i'm going to talk about that a little bit and what i found some research and what some studies show as we're trying to figure out if Andrew Thomas is going to come back. He was still non-committal about playing week one. And I think during Wednesday's practice, he practiced fully. Then Thursday, he's off. So snip, snap, snip, snap, snip, snap for Andrew Thomas. So we'll go through a list for injury. And then also we will dive into a mailbag. Haven't done a mailbag in a minute. Appreciate everybody hanging out. And this time next week, it will be a football Friday, and we'll be getting ready for the Giants to play. I'm jazzed, man. I'm jazzed. I'm excited. I want to see this football team out there. And I think most importantly right now, I think all Giants fans can agree with this. I'm excited to root for this team, right? I'm not just excited for the Giants because they're my favorite team. And, oh, you know, we go to the games, you're a regular season ticket holder, or you watch from home and then you do your regular traditions, right? I'm kind of excited to see what this team is going to do. There are guys on it that we like from top to bottom. You know, I don't even need to go through it all, But there's guys that you want to root for. There's intrigue about when are they going to move to Jackson Dart? That's going to be one of the mailbag questions that we'll talk about at the end. But I'm excited to watch this football team go out there. Because I think for the first time, and probably since 2021, because 2020 was a vibes year. And, you know, okay, but can they get better from 2021? Can they get better from what they did in 2020? Six wins. But I'm excited to see these guys go out there, these players, and see what they can do. I think it's a collection of guys that are going to be pissed off if they get punched in the mouth. I think they're going to try and punch back. I think there's a collection of guys, even led by this rookie class, led by Malik Neighbors, that if they get punched in the face right away, I think they're going to want to punch back. And I don't think it's just going to be the same old giants of if things don't go right right away or if they face a little adversity that you just give up and it's over. I hope that's not the case. It's easier to say that in August. It's easier to say that when you're walking away from a 3-0 preseason where you kick the ---- out of every team. Oh, and there was a stat, by the way. I'm going to pull up this stat right now. There was a stat, by the way, that has like, if you read it, and if you like stats like I do about the Giants preseason, then it's like, oh my God, we're going to the Super Bowl. We're going to the playoffs. And here it is. So, yeah, I never read this. So this is from John Breach, at John Breach. The Giants became the eighth team since 2009 to outscore their preseason opponents by at least 60 points. of the previous seven teams six made the playoffs two won the Super Bowl they averaged 11.1 wins and Russell Wilson was the quarterback of two of those seven teams so the Giants are number eight they're going to join that trend we'll see what their numbers wind up being and I'm excited for it man like I said excited to root for these guys specifically but let's uh let's talk about some roster notes and some basically I think they are they are kind of footnotes for for the most part so the Giants made two claims uh they claimed quarterback Rico Payton from the Saints and they also claimed uh former Ravens safety former Maryland safety as well Bo Braid uh like I said from the Ravens he's a he's a safety so the Giants went into posts their their initial 53-man roster they had three safeties uh Bo Braid is going to be the fourth and then they add Rico Payton as well and like I said Rico Payton's going to be put on IR he is eligible to come off of IR after the four weeks of the season they must have really wanted him Art Stapleton indicated and hinted that Joe Shane and his staff really liked Peyton from the pre-draft process. They wanted to get him as a UDFA at last off season. They did not. Both of these guys, both Peyton and Bo Braid, logged over 200 special team snaps last year, and both of them logged under 25 defensive snaps. I think Peyton had 21 defensive snaps in 2024, and Bo Braid even had less. So that's basically the claims. They're special teams guys. cool that the Giants get somebody that they identified during last year's process I don't really put any major notes into that. The Giants release Gunnar Olszewski I think once Payton goes to IR the expectation is that Gunnar Olszewski is going to be back to join the 53-man roster as the main return man of this team the only two players that the Giants lost and that were claimed by another team Tommy DeVito goes to the Patriots Josh Dobbs is going to be that QB2 there so hopefully Drake May doesn't get hurt I'm a Drake May fan I think a lot of us are Drake May fans but uh it will be interesting if for whatever reason Drake May isn't ready to play during that week 13 matchup Monday Night Football uh could it be Tommy DeVito versus Jackson Dart probably at that point right Tommy DeVito versus Jackson Dart two buddies uh playing Monday Night Football on national television that would be a pretty niche story but that would also be kind of kind of fun and kind of interesting I hope Drake May has a has a good year but uh do you consider Tommy DeVito to be QB2 over Josh Dobbs? I would probably say no. Probably I would say no, but you never know what's going to happen. You never know if Josh Dobbs will even make it to that point. You never know. He's bounced around a little bit. So Tommy DeVito goes to the Patriots. Greg Dulcich went to the Dolphins. It was reported initially that the Giants signed him back to the practice squad, and then Greg Dulcich winds up going to the Dolphins, as he should, because that Dolphins tight end room is not very good right now. It's in a very fragile spot, and Darren Waller's a very fragile player who was just activated from Pup himself just a little while back. Greg Dulcich is probably going to be activated for the Miami Dolphins sometime very, very soon. So good for Greg Dulcich. Go and get a spot, man. Here's the practice squad. Amir Smith-Marset made it back. Lil' John on Humphrey. Jake Kubis, Elijah Chapman, Trace Ford, Timone Fox, Brian Hudson, Jordan Riley, Elijah Garcia, Jude McAtamey will be the international pathway exemption. Dante Turbo-Miller, Raheem Lane, and Dee Williams. I think the guys that I like most winding up back in the practice squad. Amir Smith-Marset winding back up in the practice squad is good as a backup slot depth and also as a return man. Lil' Jornon Humphrey, if we need more wide receiver depth, which that is a conversation that's big amongst the fan base right now, at least on Twitter, talking about the lack of wide receiver depth, which is kind of fair, kind of fair, but you have three main guys. Really, honestly, it should be four. I know we consider Jalen Hyatt to be a zero, And there's a Jalen Hyatt question on this mailbag that we'll talk about. But Lil' Jordan Humphrey on the practice squad, I think, is just fine. They can activate and elevate him at any time if any of those wide receivers goes down. I like having Jake Kouvas on the practice squad. Center guard versatility. Elijah Chapman being back. I think he's going to be elevated at any point of a defensive lineman going down. I mean, they could even elevate him a couple times. I think you can elevate guys three times from the practice squad on game days or for that week before you have to sign him to the 53. So even if they want to experiment with, all right, we want a fullback for this game. Like if we're playing the Cowboys, who have a shitty run defense week two, do you want to activate Elijah Chapman as a fullback? Maybe they may explore that. So I like that Chapman's back. And obviously Dante Miller, people are happy that he's back too. So they also signed a giant sign Swayze Bozeman to the practice squad as well. He's a linebacker for the 49ers. Also another special teamer. One of the things that I saw while I was on over the cap, You know, because they have all the practice squad guys. They have guys that are on IR. Josh Azudu, I was put on IR. He made the initial 53, but he's put on IR, so his 53 spot doesn't count. So as I was looking at all the spots and practice squad and the list and stuff like that, saw that the Giants are $8 million in the red right now. The Giants are $8 million over the cap, according to over the cap. So they're going to have to rework some contracts and do some stuff, and this is one of the reasons why I was talking about why it may be beneficial to cut Daniel Bellinger because they would save $3.3 million by cutting Daniel Bellinger. So $3.4 million, I think they would have $100,000, $100K in dead cap. So they're going to have to rework some contracts. And the three main options really are Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas, or Brian Burns. Now that Brian Burns contract has been reworked already, I think. And just looking at how that contract is laid out, i don't know if i want to touch that contract dexter lawrence i think is gonna have to be the guy that they're gonna have to rework they already negotiated some incentives in dexter lawrence's contract i believe right before camp started so they're gonna need to create eight million in room and then maybe even a little bit more because they're gonna have to get through the year which i don't view this as like a huge issue because i'd rather the giants not have a million contracts where they're backloading which they don't they they really have structured a lot of the contracts on their team responsibly uh they they really have so even if they have to struggle getting through the year cap space wise like okay you know and i know a lot of people if their three win team come december man the giants only have two million in cap space they're struggling to get through and and i've been guilty of this in the past too they only have three million in cap space and they have three wins in december how that's really bad roster management well they're not backloading all these deals that they got with the players that they got to pay so uh so dex's contract probably they don't have to do something with it they have to create eight million in some way and i wrote down andrew thomas but i don't know if that's a contract that you want to touch either which brings me to this liz frank injury that he has and a little bit of the research that i did into that i did into that you know andrew thomas is still only 26 years old he's 26 man and there's gotta be a worry there has to be a worry before we see him on the field before we see him that he's okay and even just hearing the again like the snip snap snip snap one day you think that he's going to be ready and it's all part of a plan to ramp him back up i get it but we're we're all just so worried about this dude and for good reason because he's so damn important and when he's right and when he's on he's so damn good one of the best left tackles in football and left tackle is the second most valuable position in the game of football and it just changes this offense changes this offense where the Giants offense would be unwatchable ungodly awful with him out of the lineup and then with him in the lineup it would be watchable and bearable you know not great not good but it would be bearable to to witness and to see and they could actually function as an offense in the NFL without him in the in when he's not here in the last couple years as we know it's awful and it's bad and it's unwatchable want to gouge your eyes out so that's a andrew thomas is not a contract that you want to touch i think and i hate to say this andrew thomas's contract is something you can get out of if you don't touch any of the money they can get out of it at the end of next year at the end of 2026 heading into 2027 and that's so crazy to be like this 26 year old really good left tackle in in a time where the giants need to create at least eight million dollars in cap space this 26 year old left tackle who earned this contract that is so damn good you can't touch us you can't touch the contract ideally we don't live in an ideal world but ideally you don't want to touch that contract and this liz frank injury uh not fun not great and let's talk about it a little bit so the liz frank ligament what that does is it helps stabilizes the midfoot and it helps transfer force between the forefoot and hind foot when pushing off oh what do you kind of need to do as a tackle when you launch you kind of need to to push off right impacts skill positions but it impacts skill positions more but for tackles i think it could really impact you right especially if you know acceleration and quickness and things like that obviously yes it does affect running backs and wide receivers and the stop start ability a lot more but stabilizing that midfoot helping transfer that force i mean And that sounds a lot of what tackles have to specifically do in their sets. A study of NFL Liz Frank injuries from 2000 to 2010 found that over 90% of players returned to play with a median return time of 11.1 months. So we're approaching that. We are approaching around 11 months, not in August, but he suffered that injury in October. That was the sixth game of the year against the Seahawks. So that's in October. so we're approaching around 11 months and that was between 2000 to 2010 missing roughly eight and a half games was the study but more recent study and this is important because thomas is going to come back and the studies that i were reading in the results that i was reading a lot of guys do come back and they play and they're okay but what is their performance like more recent study 2009 to 2020 a study found statistically significant drop in approximate value in av that's a that's basically pro football references version of war if you know war wins above replacement in baseball so 2009 to 2020 study found a statistically significant drop in av a metric accounting for overall contribution one year post injury a medium drop from 6.0 to 5.0 so there are going to be questions on how andrew thomas is going to perform especially when this guy is so athletic and athleticism is his main trump card and being so quick and being so agile and mirroring guys that's andrew thomas's game so there's a worry there's inevitably going to be a worry until we see it and then the question and the challenge for him will be okay we'll see you for a couple weeks can we see you for more than a couple weeks and that will be the challenge and i mean if you had to put a gun to my head which has become my new favorite slogan as doing these solo Talking Giants episodes. It's been like my new favorite thing. If you've got to put a gun to my head and you've got to have me predict something instead of just talking around it, does Andrew Thomas play week one? No, I do not think Andrew Thomas plays week one. And I think I'm okay with that because it's way more important for Andrew Thomas to play week 10 than it is week one. So that's Liz Frank injuries a little bit. And one more thing before we get fully to the middle bag, the Giants announced their captains, which made me think of Andrew Thomas and then go down this rabbit hole of Liz Frank stuff. because Andrew Thomas is not part of the 2025 season captains. Russell Wilson is. Darius Slayton for the first time in his NFL career, which I appreciate that, and I think he's earned it. Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, and Bobby Okereke. Bobby Okereke, a little interesting there, as Ryan Dunleavy and a lot of reporters are coming on and saying that I'm going to have Jordan Ron on for Monday's show. I'm going to, today's Thursday, the 28th. I'm recording an interview with Jordan on the 29th, So then that interview will come out on Tuesday, not Monday, because Monday is a happy Labor Day. So I'll ask Jordan a little bit about Bobby O'Kerrick too, because I haven't heard his perspective on that. Yeah, so those are the five captains. I don't really take too much of it, of Andrew Thomas not being a captain. I think everybody that was awarded a captain, that's not a surprise. I think they deserve it. The offensive line is a unit that's been together for a whole year, but also because of Andrew Thomas's unreliability when it comes to him being on the football field. Is that a reason that he's not a captain? I don't know. Does captainship really matter? I think it does, but I think that could play into this. The rest of these guys are pretty much available. Dex has been playing through injuries, and Bobby O'Kerrick played through an injury last year, so Brian Burns played through an injury last year. So I don't really have a problem with Andrew Thomas not being on there, and I don't really view that as a significant piece and part of the future. Like, I don't really have much of a take from it. So, all right, there you go. There's a 53-man roster. We're getting closer to the final 53, but we're past the initial 53. Everybody landed back on the practice squad that we want. Tommy DeVito goes to the Patriots. Greg Dulcich goes to the Dolphins. And the Giants made two of those waiver claims, mostly for special teamers, but they have four safeties on the roster. They added Rico Payton, who is going to be activated week five, probably, because he's going to be put on IR. Let's get to the mailbag. Before we get back to the show, I have to tell you about this game-changing product that I know a lot of my close friends and family members use before we go out for a night with some drinks. And it's called Z-Biotics Pre-Alcohol. Z-Biotics Pre-Alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. And here's how it works. When you drink alcohol, and here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember, to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. So go to zbiotics.com slash giants to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use giants at checkout. ZBiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money. No questions asked. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com slash Giants and use that code Giants at checkout for 15% off. Now we're going to get back to the show. All right, welcome back to the show. And let's actually get to the mailbag now and not read another ad. Let's get a question from FCBEasle2567 on Instagram. Do you think we made a good call cutting Greg Dulcich? Thanks to everybody that asked the question, by the way. i i think they did um and i'm gonna get into it a little bit more as to why instead of just saying yeah he went to the dolphins it's a prerequisite for me for tight ends to block and especially backup tight ends and here's why like for all of you asking why is chris manhurtz on the team what what does he do what purpose does he serve greg dulcich had a good summer he had a really good connection with james winston had a really good final game with uh jackson dart and the patriots and everything like that. So he was showing a connection with multiple quarterbacks this summer. I'm going to give you the second tight end receiving numbers by year. The tight end that was second on the team and what their stats have been since 2020. Let's go to 2024 first. So Daniel Bellinger was second on the team as a tight end in receiving. He had 14 catches, 125 yards, no touchdowns. Daniel Bellinger was also the number two tight end on the team in 2023. second leading tight end receiver. Now, Darren Waller was hurt for a lot of those games. He had 25 catches, 255 yards, and zero touchdowns. Lawrence Kager, listed as a wide receiver on Pro Football Reference, but he was a tight end, mostly a tight end. 2022, Lawrence Kager was second, 13 catches, 118 yards, and one touchdown. I think a lot of that came in that Eagles game. Remember the final week of the year? 2021 was Kyle Rudolph, the best tight end two season that the Giants have had over the last five years. Really sad. 26 catches, 257 yards, one touchdown. Caden Smith in 2020 had 18 catches, 112 yards, and zero touchdowns. That's a total of 84 games. 84 games, the stat line is 96 catches, 867 yards, and two touchdowns. That's 19.2 catches per season, 173.4 yards per season, 1.12 catches per game, and 10 yards per game. I don't think that's enough. that rate and let's just say that okay but the Giants offense this year is going to be better okay I just don't think whatever Greg Dulcich would have provided as tight end four tight end four not even three it's tight end four would have been fully worth keeping him on the 53 if he is not a reliable blocker and he is a complete reliability as a blocker I think tight who can block help make an offense way more versatile. I think it makes it easier running out of 11 personnel. It's going to help the offensive line out, which I think this offensive line specifically needs as much help as they can get with runs under center. If you want to be in the I formation on first and 10 and be an 11 personnel with three wide receivers, one tight end, one running back, having a tight end that could put his hand to the dirt and help out the offensive line is helpful. Having a tight end that could stay in as a pass blocker is also super helpful too. And I don't think dosage was enough of an advantage at tight end three slash tight end four as a receiver like oh yeah we're gonna work him in the offense so I do think people were really number one people really over inflate the impact that backup tight ends can have when they've averaged the last five years for the Giants I understand bad offenses but they've averaged one catch per game 10 yards per game and that's tight end twos tight end number twos not even tight end number one so I am perfectly fine with the four that they kept Fedoni's a seventh round draft pick with traits Joe Shane talked about those traits like Thomas Fedoni showed those traits throughout the spring and throughout the summer that they like that he earned that roster spot and then you have the three and Theo Johnson may be going through some sort of injury too and he's been missing practice time uh that's a little discouraging uh his status for week one I think is also up in the air right now too so uh Daniel Bellinger may be that main tight end one or even Thomas Fidoni and Daniel Bellinger, 12 personnel, 13 personnel. You get Chris Manhurts out there, too, and he's a kick-ass run blocker. And I think Chris Manhurts being a kick-ass blocker, pass blocker, and run blocker, I think that in the long run of a season serves much more of an advantage for a football team than a guy that will get one catch per game, 10 yards per game. So that's Greg Dolzich, and I know a lot of people were upset about that. All right, next question. This is, I don't know if I can say this guy's handle. Jeff, we may have to, producer Jeff, we may have to blur this out, but Chronicles of Blank, he has a Packers Donald Trump profile picture, AI, how do you like that? He asked, at this point in time, what percentage do you predict the running back carry split? And then my guy J5, Johnny, two questions, what's up with the tailgates? and two, what are your year two expectations for Tyron Tracy? So tailgates, we're going to do, it's pretty solidified, but it's not announced. So the Giants don't have a home game until September 21st, which is helpful, which is pretty helpful. As of right now, we're doing three tailgates. We are doing the Chiefs game. We're doing the Eagles game on Thursday night. And then we're going to do the 49ers game one o'clock in November. I'm still going to be in L16, just hanging out. for the rest of the tailgates, but we're only going to be doing three tailgates this year. Those three, Chiefs, Sunday Night Football, Eagles, Thursday Night Football, 49ers. And tickets will be going live soon. I hope soon. I know our guy, Justin on events is working on that. So that's the update with the tailgates. They will be happening. Not as many this year. We're going to be doing three. They're going to be a lot of fun, and I hope to see you there. But I'll be in L16 anyway, L16, L17 on the curb. hanging out just won't provide alcohol and food for the for the rest of those games uh but the other questions are about what percentage do you predict their running back carry split and then what are your expectations for for tyron tracy i'll start off with tyron tracy first so last year tyron tracy is 17 game pace uh was about 60 yards per game and on the 17 game pace he was going to end with around 1100 yards now if you include receiving a total of 260 touches which is not nothing. About 1,400 yards and seven touchdowns. Now, he had a six-game stretch between weeks five to 10, and I've talked about this plenty of times this offseason, but if you're new, if you're just catching up on the Giants, we'll go through it again. It's always good to get a reminder of good Giants stats. So weeks five through 10, after Tyron Tracy kind of takes over that mantle in that Seahawks game, or maybe even the week before, whenever Tyron Tracy takes over the mantle starting week five, here are his ranks among running backs with at least 37 carries. Tracy was fifth in the NFL in rushing yards with 516 yards. 61% of his rushing yards came in those five weeks. He was sixth in yards per attempt, 11th in missed tackles forced, fourth in runs of 10 plus yards, but nine. Half of his runs, half of his 10 yard runs that season came in that five week stretch. And he was eighth in breakaway rate. So that five week stretch, our six week stretch with weeks five to 10 was pretty damn good. And if I had to really envision what the split's gonna look like between Tracy, Skadaboo, and Singletary. I think as a team, they could combine for around 2,000 rushing yards. In 2022, they combined as a team. They had 2,500 rushing yards. I don't think they're going to get close to that. But 2023 and 2024, I think they could get over what they did. 2023, they had 1,874 rushing yards. 2024, they had 1,783. So I think it's fair to say that this offense could get 2,000 rushing yards this year. About 2,000. So now it comes down to, how do you split up the 2,000 rushing yards? You're not going to have, as Russell Wilson's not running the ball at this point in his career. Jackson Dart will run, but it won't be Daniel Jones rushing. Daniel Jones had 700 rushing yards at 5.9 yards per attempt in 2022. And as a team in 2022, they averaged 4.8 yards per attempt. You didn't know? No. Micah Parsons traded to the Packers. Micah, are you serious? Absolutely serious. Are you ******* serious? What's the package? What's the Parsons package? Unknown? So, I mean, pretty ricky. So this is the Micah Parsons reaction right now that's happening in the middle of the Cam Scadaboo and Tyron Tracy splitting backfield packages. It's got to be at least two firsts and one second, and then a day three pick, plus at least a contract that's $45 million. I would hope it's three first-round picks for Dallas, but this is awesome. This is so awesome. This is so awesome. He's out. get out shout out pretty ricky man he knows all he knows everything everything oh this is so awesome michael parsons out out of the nfc east it's got to be at least two first round picks the package that ricky put out was two first round picks the second round pick and then oh that was awesome i'm sorry we're keeping that in um you'll know the package by the time you hear this but for dallas's sake i hope it's three first round picks i hope it's three first round picks that makes the packers that puts the packers up there with the eagles by the way in the nfc without a doubt i think jordan love is gonna have a really good year jordan loves pre-buy splits and post-buy splits and he was hurt remember with a calf injury in the early part of last year he comes back after the buy he only throws one interception he has a ton of explosive plays plays really good football like top five top six in epa per play and the main thing about the packers is that they don't really have stars. They're like a jack-of-all-trades but master of none. They have depth everywhere. They have solid players everywhere, but they don't really have stars. So now you add Micah Parsons to that mix. I think that is a team and a roster that could compete with the Philadelphia Eagles. But man, the Cowboys entering a rebuild that they're still probably going to win five to six games this year. Maybe even seven. They're entering a rebuild where they just traded away the best player on their team. I do think Micah Parsons is better than CeeDee Lamb. And they're going to have to pay George. Man, what a Why did you trade for George Pickens? Why did you trade for George Pickens? They just don't want to pay anybody. They don't want to pay anybody that's not on their terms. Man. And also, why I hope it's three first-round picks for the Cowboys. As a Cowboy fan, I'm wanting three first-round picks. The Packers are going to be picking at the back end of the first round. That second-round pick you're getting, it's going to be closer to third-round value than true second-round value. So I hope it's three first-round picks for them Because the Packers are going to be picking in the back end of the first round every year because they're good and they have a core that's not going anywhere. Damn, that's awesome for the Packers and awesome for us. Yes, get out. All right, back to the running back splits. There's about 2,000 yards, I think. I think this Giants offense can run for 2,000 yards this year. So how is that going to be split up? Tyron Tracy, like we said, was on pace for 1,100 yards last year. 1,100. And I think that's fair to expect that he can get that again this year. I think him getting 1,100 yards is reasonable. Now, you got to think, well, the offense was so damn bad last year. You would think that Tyron Tracy would even get a little bit more. I think 1,100 yards is fair, though, when you really lay it out. I think that's fair. 60 yards per game? So where does that leave everybody else? Where does that leave everybody else? I think Cam Scadaboo and Devin Singletary could be 60-40. Is Cam going to be 60, or is Devin going to be 60? I think one of them can get 600 yards, and then another can get 400. And then that's about the 2,000 yards. And then, hey, maybe if the Giants end in, if they end with 2,200 yards, then that's 200 rushing yards of Jackson Dart. 2,300 yards, and then you're really getting close to 2,022. That's Russell Wilson rushing yards added on top of that. you know you got to add in a sprinkle of Malik neighbors and Wanda Robinson rushing yards too if they're going to get some sweeps and push passes and ---- like that so I don't know man if you know obviously the expectation of what we want is for Cam Scadaboo to be the one that gets the 60 out of that 40 right the 600 yards here's what it's going to come down to who plays it's going to be determined by two main things who isn't going to fumble and put the ball on the ground and who can pass block if you're going to fumble and put the ball on the ground the guy behind you is going to get more chances if you can't pass block the guy behind you is going to get more chances and man do i hope that cam scottaboo number one stays healthy and number two can pass block because what he flashed this summer he flashed as a receiver how will the giants utilize cam scottaboo as a receiving back now barkley at times was a legit receiver but he had some bad drops and i think there's a difference between being again a good receiving back and simply a weapon, and I think we lost that as Giants fans when it came to Saquon Barkley in his time here. We lost the whole, well, this guy is a receiver. You can target him downfield. I think he's a weapon. I don't think he was necessarily a good receiving back, at least not after 2019. 2018-2019, he was targeted down the field, and it was different. Remember that Houston Texans catch touchdown that I think he had his rookie year? So that was different. But Cam Skadaboo, despite not being the same weapon that Saquon Barkley is and was, what he showed this summer was he's kept he's a he was a red zone weapon jackson dart layering the football over over defenders and cam scataboo toe tapping like he's toe tapping getting his feet in like he's a legit receiver was awesome being targeted down the field not just screens and stuff that you saw in the preseason like i wouldn't i wouldn't based on the preseason i wouldn't call dante miller a great receiving back he just caught screens in that space so you can use Cam Scadaboo as a receiving back with screens and stuff like that, but how will the Giants implement possibly getting the football dimmed down the field, or even, especially like in the red zone? I still think red zone offense for this team can be a little bit of a struggle because I'm not confident in their ability to run the ball under center. They are much better running out of the shotgun. Tyron Tracy's yards per carry out of the shotgun versus under center was a whole yards difference. I think it was 4.9 yards per attempt out of the shotgun, 3.9 under center. And they don't necessarily have that kick-ass offensive line that moves people at will under center. But out of the shotgun, when there's less guys in the box, I think they can move well together. So using Cam Skadaboo as a receiving back inside the red zone, either could be a huge X factor for this year. If he can pass block and hold on to the football, then I'm way more confident in Cam Skadaboo getting the 600 yards rushing. and then Devin Singletary is filtered in there for the 400. But I still think Tyrone Tracy is the main guy. I think he gets 1,100 yards this year. I think he gets over 1,000. I think his 17-game pace and what he was doing last year is fair, is a fair expectation. I love his ability to one-cut. We saw it a little bit in the preseason. I call it like he lulls you to sleep behind the line. He'll lull you to sleep. He'll allow linemen to get in their place. If they're pulling around him, if they're pulling behind him, If they're pulling in front of him, allows him to get where they need to get, get a hat on a hat, lull you to sleep behind the line, sticks his foot in the ground, and then goes upfield. So that's how I see it splitting. If the team combines for around 2,000 rushing yards, Tyron Tracy gets 1,100, Cam Scadaboo gets 60% of the other 1,600, and then Devin Singletary gets around 40. And then you have, if they average 2,300, if they get 2,300 rushing yards this year, then the rest of the other players are gonna have to figure out that other 300 all right before we keep going with the mailbag i gotta talk to you about chubbies are you ready for some football if you're not chubbies is ready to help you with their nfl collection whether you're tailgating grilling or riding the highs and lows of the game from your couch chubbies is the ultimate football apparel brand so much so they created their own fantasy football league george kittle ian rappaport and others have come together to assemble the chubbies league on nfl fantasy each week the top five scores they're going to win a chance at a chubbies polo slash shorts combo with their team's logo the grand champion gets the chance at the ultimate fan experience a five city five stadium nfo game tour with the plus one while the fantasy flop faces a hilarious and unforgettable punishment only chubbies could pull off head to chubby shorts.com slash the chubbies league to learn more and have some fun get ready for the most outrageous fantasy football season of your life and would you look at that folks for a limited time our friends at chubbies are giving you our listeners ten dollars with the promo code giants at chubby shorts.com slash giants that's $10 off your order with the promo code giants and that includes the nfl collection support our show and tell them we sent you express yourself level up your game day wardrobe with chubbies back to the show all right next question is coming from admkly on instagram and he's asking about wide receiver two how likely is a trade to bring in a wide receiver two for the giants i saw some interesting ones including hyatt a pick for jacoby myers i don't think the giants need a wide receiver two. I don't think they need a wide receiver two. You reward Darius Slayton. You pay Darius Slayton like a wide receiver two. And I think they're going to treat him like that with that contract as he should. Now, the thing to get more critical of is not moving Hyatt if you don't believe in him or not cutting Hyatt and just cutting your losses. Releasing Hyatt and releasing that contract, I look just, you know, you think, oh, he's a rookie. It's going to cost you financially. it doesn't it's basically it's a to zero the they barely lose anything and then they barely gain anything you know dead dead cap wise and then cap savings wise neighbors goes down or any of these guys goes down Slayton goes down you feel a little bit more bleak about the wide receiver room especially if neighbors goes down well I mean that's like with that with any team in any position oh a star goes down you feel a lot more bleak about the position okay but I don't think the critique is wide receiver too I think the critique is just the overall depth of the wide receiver room. I really do think Bo Collins is going to serve a valuable role as an in-line blocker. I really do. I don't know how many snaps per game he gets. Do they feel comfortable that Darius Slayton can motion in and be an in-line blocker when they're running under center? Like I said, because they had a lot of trouble doing that last year. Are you going to put Malik Neighbors on the field on a first and ten and really feel confident in him? Sterling Shepard was a really good run blocker. They would motion him in and I would feel great. I'd be like, alright, yeah, Sterling Shepard's going to is going to be able to get in front of somebody and take care of business. He was a really good run blocker as a receiver. And that's what they were doing with Bo Collins in the summer. Is that going to be enough of a role where Bo Collins will actually get starting offensive snaps come Sunday on game days? Is that going to be enough? Plus whatever he can do as a special teamer, right? That's the critique, is what's behind the front three. Do they believe in Hyatt or do they not believe in Hyatt? Or even, they clearly don't. You can't believe in Hyatt, but can Hyatt function enough as a wide receiver four? And if you were to get them in a room and they tell you no, then the critique is, well, then why is he on the team? Why wasn't he either moved for a day three pick or he just flat out cut him and you cut your losses and you find somebody else. But also like what wide receiver four is really going to be an advantage. Like is a little drawn Humphrey better than better than Jalen Hyatt? Maybe he could be better at, you know, it can be on the sideline. even though they do it differently, Hyatt's speed and Humphrey's contested catches. But at the end, Humphrey may be a better receiver on the sideline than Jalen Hyatt is. And that may not surprise me, which is really ******* sad, which is really sad. So they clearly didn't hide Jalen Hyatt that final preseason game. If they were going to move on from him, if they were going to cut him, if they were going to move him, I think they would have tried to do it a lot more quietly. But they made a lot of noise because he dropped passes and then he caught a touchdown. And they were targeting him. They were going after him. Jameis Winston's first play after Jackson Dart gets hurt is, we're not even hesitating. We're not even thinking of any other option. We're going to Jalen Hyatt for a touchdown. We're going to Jalen Hyatt on a goalball. So I don't think wide receiver two is not the trade that they would make, and they're not making a trade for a wide receiver four. They're just not doing that. The wide receiver room is the wide receiver room. That's what they got. And the only thing that you can really critique and look at and second guess is what are their actual opinions and belief in Hyatt. so that's that uh doug analytics asked this from the last mailbag and he asked and i really wanted to go back to it looking at how the giants performed last year which stats do you trust most to show real improvement this year and which ones might be most misleading so one of the things i wanted to look back at is just how good or decent the giants offensive line was with andrew thomas in the lineup and while daniel jones was also quarterback last year so that speaks one through six ironically enough i did this prep of this question and research i did it before i really looked into the liz frank injury so take that with a grain of salt but weeks one through six it led dan schneier had a tweet and i and i i was thinking about this tweet this morning i'm gonna read you this dan schneier tweet if i bookmarked it he tweeted something along the lines of on October 6, 2024. I think that's after the Seahawks game. It is. At this point, we're almost five full games into the season. And I can confidently say, this is Dan Schneier, the Giants offensive line pass protecting better. They are pass protecting better than they have for any consistent stretch since 2009. The jump they made this offseason is massive. i'm so shell-shocked i'm still not sure it's real so doug is asking which stats do you trust most to show real improvement this year i'm even thinking of the giants offensive line as not even improving but can they just keep what they did through the first six weeks up which over the course of a full season is improvement which goes to doug's question so weeks one through six the percentage of dropbacks with some responsibility of pressure. And PFF breaks this up with offensive line and quarterback. The Giants offensive line ranks sixth in lowest responsible pressure rate. Daniel Jones was eighth in highest responsible pressure rate among quarterbacks. That's important because Russell Wilson, his percentage of pressure that he's going to own, Russell Wilson is going to be high in that category as well. Russ was second highest in that category in 2024 it's gonna be high with russ but if the offensive line cannot make it worse by them getting their ass kicked and them getting beat that's even better right quarterback and it's always a it's it's a dance of sack rate and pressure and who's responsible for what quarterbacks holding on to the ball quarterbacks drifting in the pocket quarterbacks running backwards quarterbacks not moving up in the pocket how they improvise and all that ---- like it's it's a dance of who's responsible for what it's not just an offensive line thing and it's also not just a quarterback thing a lot of people i see a lot of numbers people in football say well sac right is simply just a quarterback stat it's not it's also an offensive line stat so that's it's it's important to look at that with russell wilson as quarterback so when andrew thomas was left when he left the lineup and Jones was still in weeks seven through 10. So yes, that is a shorter sample size, but the offensive line shared responsibility ranking was 16th, jumped up to 16th out of 21 qualified quarterbacks. Two main reasons why I feel like the Giants were able to sustain drive so well last year through the first two months of the season. And they were top five, top 10 in average time of possession and plays per drive. That's what they were good at doing through the first two months last year. They didn't score. They were awful in the red zone, and they were average at yards per drive, but average time of possession and plays per drive, they actually were top 10 through the first two months of the season. That's like the only good parts of the Giants offense last year, what they did. But why I feel like they were able to sustain drives so well through the first two months of the season, they didn't take a lot of negative plays. They didn't take a lot of sacks. And then also it's Malik Nabors. I think Malik Nabors really did a good job helping them stay on schedule and how they were force-feeding him through the first two months of the season. Now, Daniel Jones, despite having over 200 attempts, the third most in the first six weeks of the season, he only took 14 sacks. That's a 6% sack rate. And that's awesome, man. And six of those sacks, Jones was deemed to be responsible for. So with that in mind, this line, they're the exact same. The main difference is that they've already played a year together, which is huge. A 6% sack rate would be a monumental improvement for the overall health of the Giants offense in 2025. When as an offense, we've constantly, every year, have lived around 10% or higher. Getting that sack rate and that sack percentage down to 5% is huge. But Russell Wilson, like I said, is going to be a victim of taking sacks. The lowest sack rate of Russell's career was 7%. That number needs to be closer to 5 than it is 10. The overall health of the Giants offense will be so much better if that sack rates 5, 6, maybe flirting with 7. If it's around 10, it's going to hurt. But also, I had some people fairly in my replies give a rebuttal to me when I tweeted out that stat today about 6%. Like, oh, 6% would be huge. I tweeted that out. Some people are like, well, if the sack rate's a little higher, I'm okay with that if the Giants are more explosive, which is also a fair, fair reply. And it's a fair rebuttal. But I still think with how this offensive line played, let's have an expectation for Russell Wilson to not just be such a shithead taking sacks. And then even whenever the reins are turned over to Jackson Dart, Jackson Dart showed an amazing ability to navigate the pocket and not take sacks this preseason it's the preseason and the speed of the game is going to be a whole lot different when starters are out there a whole lot different so overall health of the offense going to be better if you can keep that sack right down that's a no ---- Sherlock but why I bring that up why I bring this up when Doug asked which stats could show real improvement getting that offensive line for a full season along with capable quarterback play for a full season when you combine both of those two things I'm fascinated to see where it could take that offense and where it could take this offense so we'll see and then Andrew Thomas's injury and when he comes back and how long he's going to be back for is a black cloud that is looming on top of this of this football team right now now for something that's misleading I feel like a lot of people including myself they've looked at the Giants not forcing any turnovers and said well because of how bad it was it was bound to get better right I don't necessarily think that's true Shane Bowen's defenses they've always had a difficulty forcing them there's never been a season where he's been a defensive play caller that gives you any sort of hope or indication or optimism that the Giants can force turnovers at a top 10 rate this year. So I think something that is a little misleading is simply looking at their low turnover rate and being like, oh, it's going to, it has to get better. Just snapping your fingers and saying that it's not necessarily, not necessarily the case, which kind of leads me to my next question from Rational Giants takes at Rational G-Man Fam. What's going on, man? Nice to see you. Besides the quarterback room, which position group do you see taking the biggest leap this year? I have the running back room as number one, but I already talked all about that. I just think the compliment of the three of those guys and Tracy being in year two, Cam Scadaboo being your second running back with also being like a receiver, and then Devin Singletary, who was your running back one heading into last year. I think the running back room as a whole could really take a step up from where they were last year. But also it's the secondary with the resources that they allocated to Javon Holland and Paul Sanadibo. I really hope we're walking away from September feeling the impact of those guys and that they aren't just blending in. I got Javon Holland and Paul Sanadibo. They're okay. They're there. They made a play here. They made a play there. I can't be walking away from September being like, oh, they're just blending in. They're there. They got to touch the football. They have to get their hands on the football and be contributors on the run defense as well. Tyler Newben has to touch the football, has to so the secondary as a whole with those two additions it should also make Cordell Flott better it should make Deontay Banks better since those guys won't be you know Deontay Banks won't be facing wide receiver ones those guys should also make and Javon Holland should help Tyler Nubin out more Shane Bowen should feel more confident that he can call a more aggressive defense on the back end disguise some coverages see if you can get your hands on the football get some interceptions and force some turnovers full quarterbacks in coverage looks on the back end instead of what wink martindale would do on the front end is he would try and disguise stuff on the front with the front seven so besides quarterback room which position group do you see taking the biggest leap running back room and secondary without a doubt all right before we keep going and running on this episode is brought to you by the jack pocket lottery app jack pocket lets you order official lottery tickets right on your smartphone why wait download jack pocket app to easily order Powerball Mega Millions or official state lottery tickets in just a few quick clicks. Jackpocket is the number one lottery app in America and it makes playing quick, simple, and secure. And here's the best part. If you're new to Jackpocket, they've got a special offer just for you. Download the app, opt in, and get a free lottery ticket. Don't forget to use code AWARDS when you sign up. That's code AWARDS on the Jackpocket app to get your free ticket. All right, moving on to the next question. How about Snickety? At Snickety, he asked if JMS were to go down, do they just move in Austin Schlottman to replace him or slide Greg Van Roten to that spot then slot in Neal or someone else to guard this is what I'm going to be asking Jordan Ronan because I saw one of those Giants accounts tweet out that Jordan Ronan said that there are people that are in the building that think Greg Van Roten is the team's best option at center okay even if that's the case I would rather see John Michael Schmidt struggle at center than the way that Evan Neal is probably going to struggle at guard that's flat out the truth um if they really felt that greg van roten was their best option at center then why didn't they why weren't they more aggressive at guard outside of missing out on will freeze they didn't get will freeze he was a free agent from the cults they didn't wind up getting him so was that the only option at guard that would have made them feel better and then you sign greg van roten and then slide him over to center and then john michael schmitz as the backup jordan's also said there's people i i gotta hear i didn't hear what he said but i just saw that somebody tweeted it out that he said that there are people in the building that think that greg van roten is the better option over jms depends who is saying that and who has that belief right so i would much rather see john michael schmitz we know what john michael schmitz is and it's not great at times but i'd rather see that than whatever evan neal is going to do because I think the higher floor is John Michael Schmitz. And I think that's an easy answer. I still think they're going to try and do this rotation, because it's Evan Neal, and they really want him to work. All right, I'm going to ask these next three questions, but kind of just all in one. CH1SEO90 on Instagram asks, what's your prediction on what our record will be? And then Patrick on Instagram with a complicated username, he asks, when do you think Jackson Dort will be named as the starter? and then Zach underscore Ash34, also on Instagram, asks, what QB starts the most games for the New York Giants this year? So I think on our record prediction show with New York Revival, I went 6-11. I'm going to bump it up to 7-10. You got me, preseason. You got me, training camp. You got me to bump it up by one. I think they can go 7-10 this year. Now, obviously, the record of how they do is totally going to be indicative of when Jackson Dart is going to be slotted in and when he's going to come in, right? i i don't know like i i don't know when dart is going to come in because it's just so i i don't know how the giants are going to start the first four weeks of the season like if they go two and two we're not seeing dart for a little bit if they go one and three then you may see him sooner than sooner than you think if they go on four you're probably seeing week five so i don't know man but the main thing that i'm walking away with from this preseason is saying i'm not dreading the dart announcement april may june everything leading up to training camp you know what i thought about jackson dart as a prospect as a football player i was dreading that the announcement dreading like oh ---- like when is it gonna come and it's gonna be a bad situation and he's not ready and he's raw and they're gonna rely on him to save everybody's ass and save everybody's job and the vibes are gonna be bad to begin with sure there'll be juice for a week or two when when the new starters announced but it still will be a bad situation because if the giants are a bad football team with Russell Wilson, then guess what? They're going to probably be bad with Jackson Dart too. Because that means that they're probably just a bad team. Probably. But I'm not dreading that anymore. I was dreading it because it's like, I don't want to set this guy up to fail. But maybe what this preseason showed, what the summer showed is maybe this guy's just got, maybe he's just got that it. Maybe he's just that dude. Maybe he's ready for this ----. Take advantage of the infrastructure that you built that you don't have to throw him in there right away let Joe Shade's roster go out and try and compete like this is not just a Joe Jackson Dart isn't going to be yeah Jackson Dart will be the thing that saves Joe Shane and Brian Dables ass because that's what happens with every every every quarterback that you nail and then okay well we'll work on the roster but we got the quarterback but part of what makes me most frustrated with with Joe Shane isn't that he didn't land this quarterback through his first three years here is that he's built a ---- roster so for me 2025 isn't just about oh you gotta see what you got jack dart 2025 is is this roster getting to a spot that it needs to get to be competitive that's what it's about more than jackson dart for me as a fan i need to see that joe shane and the foundation that is set here is it a foundation that's actually worth building upon 2024 draft class. Can anybody in the 2022 draft class get extended? Can Cordell Flott show that he's a good depth player that you can extend? Wanda Robinson, is he a slot guy that you can extend, or is he just a replaceable player? Kayvon Thibodeau, what's the future of Kayvon? I don't know, man. That's what this year's about. When do I think Jackson Dart will be named starter? Ideally, the week after the bye for week 15. Week 15, 16, 17, 18 for the final four games of the year. Realistically, earlier. Realistically, earlier. And hopefully it's, if you had me to pin down a week between week eight to 10, that's the time that I think is realistic. But hopefully this team is better. Hopefully the Giants are kicking some ass. Hopefully they're sacking the quarterback. They're putting the quarterback on the ground. Hopefully Malik Nabors is killing it. Hopefully Andrew Thomas is healthy. Hopefully we're getting some big plays. We're scoring some damn points and we're having a ton of fun. I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was a lot of fun. Hopefully an interview with Jordan Ronan coming out on Tuesday. As we get excited, head to the season. Next week is going to be the last week without Giants football until the month of February. All right, we'll see you then. Have a good Labor Day weekend. I'm going to be at Clemson LSU. So I'm going to have a good little fun weekend. Let's go, Giants. Appreciate you. See you next week. It starts today! Let's go, Giants! We, we, woo!