An Open Discussion of Gree, Bosch and other inverter driven systems

I'm live. Well, guys, hey, I figured I would just start this by talking about the Gree Flex and the Bosch duct systems. I'm going to wait till some people come on. Y'all let me know if y'all can hear me, if y'all are online. I didn't have a video for today, so I figured I would do this. The good guy. Good evening. I'm glad y'all are with me. Good. Thank you. Hey, get out. I'm I'm here with Riley. and he wants this. I hope you're going to make a mess. The reason I was going to do this live talk was to go over the two inverter systems that I have installed and have experience with and that's the Bosch IDS Premium and the Gree Flex. Maybe discuss what I like about both of them, the pros Pros and cons and. Maybe take some questions on those and start a discussion that way. I don't have experience with the Mitsubishis. Y'all hold on just a sec. What's up guys? See Danny, what's up? Tanner said, I've installed one Bosch inverter system paired with their furnace. Yes, they are very easy to install. I'm going They're very easy to install. It's basically just like installing a ring, to go only you don't have a red wire outside. ahead I installed mine just as a single stage system and as far as the wiring goes it's like a single start stage system and it went very smoothly. the I'm thinking about adding second stage and this install. is the Bosch. You can add Y2 to the air handler that doesn't change anything for the condenser but it does change things for the condenser in a sort of a way because it speeds up the fan It changes the temperature of the refrigerant coming back. Inverter system does know to speed up a little bit when it goes into Y2 and I'm thinking about doing that. Plus it offers with the Bosch thermostat, it does offer some dehumidification features and I might be interested in that. I mean, right now it's not a big deal, but maybe when summer is in full swing. I do like those features, the Y1 and Y2 with the Bosch, But there's some things about the Gree that I really like and wish. And Bosch may be fixing to address these. The Bosch is running fine. The only time I ever hear it is when I'm outside near it. It does seem to have more of a following than Gree. If I'm not mistaken, Bosch is made by Midea. And they seem to be easier to work on. The Gree looked like it was going to be really complicated. They both have tons of sensors all over them. And any one of those could take it out or cause an error. The Bosch, well, I'm going to tell you, the Gree that I installed, the Gree Flex, it has like a mid-temperature gas that it injects into the suction during the heating season when it's really cold, which allows it to produce high-temperature heat even when it's really cold outside. But the Bosch have released like a teaser saying they're coming out with a cold-weather And they may be doing the same thing with. With the Gree, you know, when it's running in heat, a split system, the hot gas goes through what we call the evaporator. In that case, it's a condenser and it comes back as a liquid. On the Gree, that liquid goes into like a little receiver and they take gas off that receiver and inject it into the suction. So it's like a mid-temperature, something like 80, 90 degree gas that they're injecting into the... cold freezing suction coming back to keep the temperatures up and Bosch may be fixing to do something like that. I don't know what their cold weather heat pumps are going to be like. He is still after this. But yes, Bosch does seem to have more of a following than Gree. I'm not real sure why because around here with the Gree, yes, they have flare fittings on their condensers and air handlers. But you don't need heat strips with the Gree with the Bosch you do because they're not doing the cold weather heat pump and with the Gree when it goes into defrost kind of like a mini split the blower shuts off so there's really no need for heat strips at any time at least not around here but with the Bosch there is. The Bosch premium that I installed Raymond has a constant torque motor or an X13 on it. it does not have variable speed and the Gree does. what temperature do we start losing efficiency? now with around here it don't ever get below like 17 degrees so the Gree never really loses efficiency but um i'm not real sure about the Bosch. i'm kind of new to those. let's see forgive me i'm trying to read the comments and just had an I've got an odd one come up. Yeah I just wanted to start a discussion about the differences in these two systems. Obviously the Gree is side discharge and the Bosch is top discharge so it looks like more of a traditional air conditioner and those are really the only inverter systems that I have installed. I've installed probably five of the Grees and just one of the Bosches. Which one do I prefer? I'll be honest, I prefer the Gree because you don't need heat strips. But like I said, Bosch is about to come out with a cold weather inverter condenser and they may be fixing to do the same thing that Gree has done so that you don't need heat strips. On the Gree, yes, you do flare your connections on the air handler and on the condenser. And you've got to get them just right. They've got to be perfect. And for me, you've got to use Nylog. I mean, to me, that has been the key to making them where they're leak-free. Yes, no heat strips is great on the electric bill, especially during the winter. Any quality differences between the two? I'm not really seeing, at this point, much of a quality difference. Heard from others that the Bosch evaporator coils Do you have a problem with leaking? In my experience, I have not seen that, not yet. I hope everybody went out and voted today. If you didn't vote early, go out and vote. Don't put political stuff in the comments, please. But do y'all have any, doesn't Mitsubishi offer a product that's similar to the Gree Flex? If they do, I haven't installed one. I would imagine it's more expensive than the Gree and the Bosch seem to be. an economy version of the inverter system for most people because if I would install a 20-seer inverter-driven system by Ruud, which is what I normally install, it would probably be 50% more than either the Gree or the Flex. No, I do not work in Savannah, Georgia. I stay close to home, and I'm in Albany, Georgia. My house has a pane true to its name. Well, some of the old panes lasted a long time on my other house. When I put a Gree on it, we had a pane that had been there for like 26 years. Is 20K on a 100-amp circuit maybe? That's a lot of heat. Where do you have 20K? I mean, 20K, what is it, 80 amps? So that might not be too abnormal. Have I moved? Are you talking about, to me, a very crazy Chimkin streamer and mentioner? I do not do dehumidifiers. I don't, I've worked on a few, but they're kind of like window units. Once you need to work on them, most of the time it's not worth it. Well, thank you for mentioning that I do a lot for the community. I'm just trying to share what I've got. I got no kids. I got no employees. So I'm just trying to pass on what I know. And by the way, while I mentioned this, it seems like I've had crap for luck Um, sponsors, um, maybe they just don't like my, my brand of honesty. I promise y'all I'll keep it real whatever I do, even if it means I'll lose a sponsor. Interior British Columbia, this would be the fourth one agreement. Yeah, negative 35 degrees Celsius, that's, that's pretty cold. Well guys, I'm sorry I didn't have a video for today. I was occupied with other things. I was trying to come up with something like a tool video or something but this topic of degree in the Bosch was kind of in the back of my head and I figured I'd just come on live and talk about it. I've seen other systems like a Mitsubishi. I'm not sure if they do have a matching air handler for their heat pumps or if they offer a kit where you can just convert but in my experience Mitsubishis have been really expensive in the mini split market. No, I haven't installed train communicating equipment. The Trane communicating, well, first of all, there's no train dealer here. There's no American Standard dealer here. The closest one around is about 90 miles away. And so I kind of stay away from that brand. I had somebody come looking for a company to sell their train products because they lost their exclusive Trane dealer. Thank I didn't jump on that bandwagon because we don't have a parts store for Trane anywhere near us. So even something as simple you as a defrost control board would mean they would have to wait like two days and I'm not going to do that. Yeah, very the rest of the country's thinking about the election. much. Well, I'll tune into that later. That's Carrier ICP inverters. I haven't installed any. I've come across a couple of them. So I don't really have a whole lot of experience on the ones I've come across for working. I've diagnosed a couple of Trane ones that were not working. And in both cases, it was a sensor. So I haven't installed a Daikin. Once again, our Goodman dealer is all the way in Tipton. And in fact, they're no longer going to be dealing Goodman probably as of now. They're going to another name brand. EcoNet converter, preferred brand of thermostat. You know, all of them have their problems, but I've been with Honeywell for a long time. I'm very familiar with their thermostats, and I don't know, it would take a major problem for me to dump Honeywell. Yes, you do see a USA flag. Back there with my college diplomas. I don't know if y'all can see that. There's one from the Ohio University. Yes, there is a new cold climate heat pump coming out from Bosch and I don't know what they're doing to make them work in cold weather. Like I mentioned, the grease inject a mid-temperature gas into the suction to make them work better in cold weather. I don't know what Bosch is going to do. I've also looked for information on that. We won't know until they come out or we get our hands on one. And I'm probably not going to get my hands on one unless I work on one. The some of the Panasonic and Mitsubishi mini splits can be a pain in the rear to work on. I can agree on that. I used to work on chillers. That was part of some I would work on everything from mini splits to chillers at one of the jobs I was at. And now that I'm running my own business, I kind of stick mostly to light commercial and residential and chillers. Sometimes one call might take four, six, eight hours, and in that time, if it's a busy day, I could be putting off eight customers, so I don't really have time for chillers. Should I worry about that? What do I know about the ACIQ high-efficiency inverters? I don't know anything about them. Medea and Gree both may have been making inverter mini-split style systems for a long time. No, you shouldn't worry about it looking like a mini split because side discharge is actually preferable over top discharge in my opinion. That's a good one. I started HVAC school. It's a great career. I started out going to school in engineering and I quickly figured out I didn't want to sit behind a desk. I wanted to get out and do things. That was not a career for me. So, I really enjoy what I do. I get to meet new people all the time. And most of the time, I get to help them out. Okay, who is this very crazy chimpkin streamer and mentioner asking crazy questions? Bosch coils, at least the condenser, looks like it has a coating on it. It's kind of a blue color. Yeah, I think they're very crazy too. What's your strategy for obtaining new customers and pricing appropriately to retain them? I'm going to tell you, when I started my business, I was low price. I had the lowest price in town thinking I'd get a lot of work. I'm going to tell you now that is a bad strategy because you're going to get people that you don't want. Be competitive. Put your prices up there like the other big companies, and people will show you more respect. So I was hoping y'all would have some more to say about some of the other inverter systems. Thank you, Antonio. I'm kind of learning, for example, like the Bosch. If you have ever worked on an ECM motor, the Bosch ain't much different. You've got a board that's like the module that controls the condenser fan motor and the condenser. But, of course, it's got all these sensor inputs. But basically, it's the same thing as a module and a motor. Now the grease that I've installed, All of them have been the three-ton version, and they have three boards on them, three main boards. It's got one little tiny board that just has a couple wires going to it. But I think the Bosch would be easier to work on. That's an expensive board. But I agree, if something fails on one of the boards, you may not have to replace all of them like you do on the Bosch. You have to replace the whole thing. But I think the Bosch would be easier to work on. Simply because there's not so much copper piping and stuff in it, and it's very simple. It looks like it's simple to work on compared to the Gris, but the Gris have their own advantages. Well, hello from the Chicago area. I used to work on the commercial side a lot. Where I worked, there weren't, but we had like eight technicians. There were only like three of us who could do that they would trust with commercial work. And I was one of those. I was never the lead technician there. I actually left there and became a lead technician somewhere else. But that was for about three years when I was doing that. If you are allotted the time you need for commercial work, it can be fun. I enjoyed some of it. What I don't like in any of my jobs is feeling like I'm rushed. Yes, the greed and... The Bosch are using non-communicating thermostats. Like mine, I've got a, what's that Google thermostat? The Nest. I've got a Nest on it. That's just what was in the house and I just reused it. But the Gree, I put a Honeywell T4 thermostat on it and it works fine. Raymond, owning your own business is worth it in the long run. The first couple of years can be very rough. I couldn't have done it if my wife hadn't have been working, but it's. Very much worth it. Very much. Matt, communicating systems don't use 24 volts to control the system like a 24 volt contactor or 24 volt relay. They use boards and computer signals between the boards. So basically they're sending a variable DC signal between each board to tell everything what's happening. That's what a communicating system does. So a communicating thermostat is not actually, some people don't call them thermostats. They call them a user interface. It's part of a larger computer system that controls your air conditioner. Yes, I have seen pictures of this Rheem side discharge heat pump. I'm not so sure they're inverters though. I think they're like they're 14 Sears. They may make it in the inverter style. Because I have asked about buying those. Honestly, I think it would be a plus because you don't have leaves and stuff falling in the top of it. How hard is it to remove a stripped Allen screw from a furnace gas valve? You can't get it out, replace the valve. I don't know if the Nest thermostat interferes with the Bosch. I haven't come across that. The Nest thermostat just operates on 24 volts like any legacy thermostat. So I wouldn't think it would. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think it would. Oh, and something else. It looks like Gree is going to be using R32 and Bosch is using R454. Let's see. Referring to the Eco Mode features. I don't know. I don't know if that's going to interfere with anything or not. Cool Gree Cosmety. Well, thank you. Is that Ninja Star 80? Well, guys, I'm not going to be on late tonight. I'm probably going to watch a little bit of the news. pick out a movie to watch and then I'm going to tune in to see what's going on with the election. Hopefully I won't be up all night. Okay so what's the RD-17? Are y'all talking about that side discharge ring? Thank you Mike. Yeah R32 is a single component refrigeration which means it's not mixed similar to R22 which makes me think you can charge it in vapor. Yeah, you might be able to charge it in vapor. I haven't heard anybody talk about that, but I think you could. Well, guys, what time is it? 6:15. But yeah, I just wanted to talk about the grease and the washes. Ashes, um... I'm learning more about them every day. There's some new grease coming out. Most of my experience has been with the two- and three-year-old ones. I installed one this year that the board was different. Um, it had a defrost terminal instead of like an x terminal on it and the way I hook those up I don't hook up the white wire from the thermostat but I do hook up the white wire coming from the condenser so when the condenser calls and there's no heat strips in it if there's no heat strips in it when the condenser calls for defrost it sends a signal on the d wire or your white wire and the blower shuts off. But if you've got heat strips installed, it knows this. It gets a call on the white wire, and it brings on your heat strips. And I think that's a really nice option on the Grease. Well, guys, y'all take care. I don't want to go too long because I do want to watch a movie. Thanks for tuning in. If y'all hadn't subscribed, please like and subscribe. And I will catch y'all in the next one if I can figure out how to close this out. So far, I haven't figured it out. Here we go. There's an in-stream button down here. Y'all take care, and I'll try to catch y'all tomorrow.