Debate: Green councillor confronted on 'Zionism is racism' motion

I'm delighted to say that Florence Schecter joins me now in the studio, Green Party councillor for Brownswood in Hackney, cabinet member for finance, resident services and digital at Hackney Council. I mean, just on that point, Florence, we've had 2,500 people arrested, public buildings burnt to the ground, school children losing their hands, hundreds of police officers being attacked. What's inspiring about any of that? Well, I think it's important to remember that these protests in France, there are a huge amount of peaceful protesters out there. And that's what I was referring to when saying people should be inspired. I'm really inspired by the young people who are speaking out against austerity, because where there's violence in the streets, absolutely, we can condemn that. But when harm happens to people because of budgets and spreadsheets, we don't see that same level of condemnation. And that's what I want to see. A third of British children live in poverty. And I would love to see the level of condemnation for that, as we are seeing for the violence that's happening in the streets. It was a poor choice of words, though, to say you might have been inspired by something that has been as violent and destructive as what we've seen across the channel. Even if you agree with sort of the underlying grievances that are driving those protests, when there has been so much harm caused, to suggest that people would have been inspired by them is a poor choice of words. I think, to be perfectly honest, the question is a bit of a distraction. I just said that a third of British children live in poverty. And that's what I'm upset about here. And I would love to see that same level of condemnation for this. But do you not worry that people are going to turn out at your demonstration who have been inspired, not by the cause, but by the attacks on police officers? But the march that we're having on Tuesday at 6pm is about fighting austerity. And that is what people are going to be turning up for. How do you know that? Because you might be turning up for that reason. Other people might be saying, great, I'm inspired by them going and lobbing bricks at police officers. I'm going to turn up to this Green Party event. And that element of it is really irresponsible. Well, I mean, firstly, it's not a Green Party event. It's something that is happening in coalition with loads and loads of people. Yeah, and obviously I am going to be there. But I'll be honest, the best way to prevent violence is to listen to the demands. It would not be escalating to violence in the first place if we had a government that were investing in this country, if we were doing something about the third of children who are living in poverty. There can't be people who feel that their causes are so justifiable. Do you not think that a third of British children living in poverty is not justifiable? I don't think it justifies violence, no. You think children... OK. I don't think any cause justifies throwing bricks at police officers. No, I don't. You know, I think it's really interesting. Do you? I think it's really interesting, the inconsistency of the condemnation of political violence. Because on one hand, we have grandmas who have been put into prison for holding signs, and then we have people who are setting hotels on fire and there are no repercussions. And then in the same week, there'll be a documentary about suffragettes and weren't they wonderful? It really feels like political violence and whether it's condemned is less to do with whether people think violence is a bad thing and more to do with, do I agree with the outcome? So do you think the violence we've seen in France is somehow justifiable? What I'm saying is I think there's an inconsistency of how we are condemning violence because when it is useful for the political elites, When it's useful for the people in power, when it's useful for the people with money to condemn that violence, then they condemn it. But when it's not useful... Would you condemn the violence we've seen in France? I will absolutely condemn violence that is happening in the streets. But I also condemn the violence that is happening to the British people every day because of austerity. What sort of violence are you talking about there? A third of British children live in poverty. There are parents who are having to make the decision between heating their homes and feeding their children. that that is horrifying to me horrifying that that is violence let's move on to i want to talk about green party issues more generally because it's been a pretty difficult few weeks for your party how much how much damage has been caused by the decision to vote in favor of a motion declaring zionism as racism do you think i think that's a really complicated question i think there's been a lot of different impacts i think again it's really interesting how much the media is focusing on this i was at the conference and there was one tiny part where we were um talking about the zionism is racism motion and by the way i would like to say that i'm jewish and i am really really affected by this but we spent a lot of time talking also about pollution and transport and health care and the economy and i i really wonder why that's not being reported on i had a friend the other day who came to me and said florence is the green party still about environmental issues because I never see it. No, because we are talking about environmental issues all the time. No, because the media is focusing on these things. Absolutely. I was at the conference and there was so many things about the environment there and none of it was reported. And I was thinking the other day, if only we had a Green Party that was still talking as much about the climate as it is about Israel and Zionism. We have had Zach Polanski talk constantly about Jack Dorr. The government has just approved more drilling in the North Sea and we are talking about it constantly. Your members overshadowed the entire conference by passing a motion that many people saw as anti-Semitic, a lot of people saw as extremist, and of course that is going to overshadow anything you have to say about education or healthcare. It's totally self-inflicted on the part of the Green Party. It's not the fault of the media. It's the fault of your members. No, I do think it's the fault of the media. It's where you are putting your focus. I spent... Did you go to conference? Were you there? Was I at the Green Party conference? No, I wasn't. I'm not a Green Party member. Well, press are invited to every political conference and perhaps you should come to the next one. I don't want to be there, frankly, if they're declaring that all British Jews are racists. Do you think that democratic political parties should not be covered by the press? No, of course not. I'm just saying I have no desire to go. OK, well, press are more than welcome to come. And if you had been there, you would have seen that we talked about a lot of things. And any of those things were extremely important. I'm not dodging the question. You're pulling focus. I was talking about austerity. I was talking about children living in poverty. And you are trying to pull the conversation away from that. I'm trying to ask you a question about how much damage you think has been caused to your party and to all the causes that you're talking about here by the decision to declare Zionism as racism? I think it's important to remember that at the end of the day, the Green Party is a democratic party, and that means that policy is not being decided by, you know, leaders in the same way that it is in Labour, where the executive gets to decide the policies. It's decided by members. Anyone can put forward a motion, and it's not for any member or any leader to stop someone putting forward a motion. So this idea that, you know, the Greens have made this particular decision is a misrepresentation of the fact that we are the only Democratic Party in this country. It's not a misrepresentation. It was a vote that was passed by your party base. As were many, many are. And Zach Polanski didn't turn up to vote. He was campaigning. He was standing. That was convenient of him, wasn't it? Oh, no, I think it was very convenient for the election to be called a few days after our conference. That's very interesting. Keir Starmer said he wouldn't stand up as Prime Minister. Caroline Lucas has said several times she thinks he should have been there. Caroline Lucas, as every single Green Party member, is allowed to have her own opinion. Do you disagree? I think that it was very interesting that Keir Starmer stood down exactly when he did and that the election was called exactly when it was because I think that the Labour Party knew that something like this was going to happen and very specifically scheduled the election to be right after our conference. But he was at the conference for most of it, wasn't he? Zach Polanski was at the conference for quite a lot of it. He was there for some of it, to canvass, which is his responsibility as a candidate. Hold on, and left very shortly before a very contentious and divisive motion. Is that strong leadership? To go canvass. He showed strong leadership by canvassing in the place where he was a candidate. And, you know, his opponent, the Labour candidate, it was very interesting. She avoided a lot of hustings where they had empty chairs. She avoided questions. And he avoided his own vote at his own conference. I mean, let's just come back to the substance. Did you vote on the motion, Florence? Yeah, I did. Did you vote for it or against it? I voted against it. OK. What was your issue with it? I think that one of my biggest things that I had issue with it was that I think that we should have self-determination and that the motion was about changing it to a single state. I think it is one of the really important... This is my personal opinion, that it is really important for people to have autonomy, that Israelis and Palestinians should be deciding for themselves how to run their own country, it's not for British people to decide whether it should be one state or two state or anything. But again, I really want to bring us back to austerity because deciding on how a particular state in the Middle East should be organised is not going to help one third of British children who are currently living in poverty, who are having their homes unheated. You're right, of course to focus on that issue, but the point is the Green Party, to get a hearing on those sorts of issues, your party has to convince people that you have not become an extremist anti-Semitic party that has been infiltrated by hardcore leftists and a lot of other sort of sinister groups with sinister agendas. If we were an anti-Semitic party, why would we have a Jewish leader? That is the concern that people have. Why would we have a Jewish leader if we were anti-Semitic? I'm Jewish and I am a councillor, I'm a cabinet member. If we were an anti-Semitic party, why would a Jewish person be in the cabinet? What would you say to the members? You don't need me to say that, Florence. There are many members of the Jewish community who are very, very upset and disturbed by what is going on in your party right now. What would you say to reassure them? I think that you are treating the Jewish people as a monolith. I'm not a Jew. And there's a famous phrase that there are two Jews and three opinions. I'm not taking that. I said there are a lot of Jewish people who are concerned by what is going on in the Green Party right now. I didn't say all of them. I didn't say there aren't Jewish members of the Green Party. As you say, Zach Polanski is himself Jewish. But you will know full well a lot of British Jews are very worried about what happened at your conference. They are worried about the fact that even this morning, Zach Polanski was retweeting posts suggesting somehow that UK government policy is being driven by the Board of Deputies of British Jews. What would you say to reassure them? The Green Party is absolutely committed to fighting anti-racism, anti-Semitism, discrimination of all kinds, and that has not changed, and this policy has not changed that. But again, I really need to remind you and the viewers what I came here to talk about, which is fighting austerity. austerity. Right now, what is Burnham doing? He is tinkering with parking charges. He's going on Gogglebox. He's going on Gogglebox. A third of British children are living in poverty and he is going on Gogglebox. What's the link between those two things? Does not going on Gogglebox help? Nobody in their right mind is going to... Because of his time. That's how he's spending his time. It's ridiculous. Nobody in their right mind is going to disagree with you about the need to tackle child poverty. And the Labour government has of course lifted the two-child benefit cap. That was a U-turn, but sure. How does going on Gogglebox in any way prevent Andy Burnham from tackling child poverty? Is that really a good use of his time? Raising money for a cancer charity, I would say so. A third of British children are living in poverty and doing charity drives by appearing on Gogglebox, that is not a good use of his time. It's something that should happen. I'm not against charity drives, but it's not something for our Prime Minister to be doing. He has very limited time in the day and I'm just really concerned that that is where he's deciding to spend his time when there are so many other things he could be doing. He could be stopping Rosebank. Jack Dorr, it's an absolute travesty. It's going to do nothing to help our bills. It's going to bring us, what, 27 jobs? And it's not going to help energy sovereignty whatsoever. And so what is he doing? He's going on Gogglebox. Florence, I'll have to leave it there. Thank you very much for coming in. Lovely to talk to you. Florence Schechter is a Green Party councillor for Brownswood in Hackney, cabinet member for finance, resident services and digital at Hackney Council.