Qatar, Turkiye, Pakistan and Indonesia sign defence production agreement

Now, breaking news coming in. Qatar, Turkey, Indonesia and Pakistan have signed a new defence agreement here in Doha. The four countries will work together to develop and produce military equipment and defence systems. Some of that equipment will be produced in Qatar as it plans to establish a new defence production hub. Qatar's Deputy Prime Minister earlier said the partnership will help the country counter ballistic missiles, drones and cyber attacks. We're joining us here on set. That's Osama bin Javid, whose face I'm sure you know very, very well, and Abdullah Banda Al-Ataibi. He's an assistant professor of international affairs at Qatar University. Great to have you both here to explain this developing story. Firstly, to you, Osama, because from your perspective, I mean, how does this shift things for Qatar, moving from simply buying foreign hardware in the wake of the U.S.-Iran war to now this? Well, I think Qatar has been positioned to do this for the last few years. Barzan Holdings, one of the lead defence companies here in Qatar, has been signing defence agreements with various countries at procurement and production levels. What this agreement does, and we've just received this from the Ministry of Defence, let's read it together, that this is going to, this memorandum of understanding will enhance cooperation in defence industry. So essentially producing components together. I was speaking to a general who gave me an example of, think of an Airbus plane, which is being put together in Toulouse, but essentially some of it is being built in Germany, some of it in France, some of it in Belgium, and then it's all put together. Given the current circumstances of how events have taken place, how crises have disrupted mechanisms of transport, this will give them the depth of producing these defense systems that they're individually producing. This also includes technology transfer in the years to come. This also taps into the various strengths that each country has for each other so that they can not just produce cheap drones and munitions and anti-drone systems, but also use and tap into the manpower that all of these countries have. Remember, Pakistan's been fighting for the last 20 years in its northern and eastern borders. It just had a fight with India, an enemy much larger than its size, last year. You've got the Turks who've got decades of experience fighting guerrilla warfare in the mountains. And you've got the Indonesians who are essentially masters of the sea. So all of that experience combined, given the Qatari depth as well as financial help, it's going to bring them together. And this is going to be a landmark agreement, which will be part of the changing defence architecture of this region. Abdullah, it's an interesting mix of nations, as Osama has highlighted here, bringing together Turkey's advanced defence tech, Gulf capital. you mentioned that and states of course like Indonesia and Pakistan that have experienced frontline warfare very very recently and the situation there is very much ongoing they're bringing a lot to the table these different nations but what does this tell you this agreement at all what does it tell us about how middle powers are essentially reshaping regional security I mean middle powers are very important they are the ones who are actually increasing the balance of power with the greater powers, basically, because the greater powers are more interested into the biggest strategy and the biggest shift in the system, but the middle powers are the ones who are making sure that the balance is there. And I think that this is, this is the part that is very important when it comes to the productions. I think Qatar needs that depth. The whole region, this is, for the four countries, I think they have the same vision, that stability is important, but stability and diplomacy and dialogue doesn't mean that you don't need capacity and capabilities to supplement, basically, diplomacy. And with this war, the whole countries are in the region, and these countries, they witnessed some of the new threats with the drones and missiles, so they need something different, some innovative solutions, basically, especially when the threats are part of the whole equation, which makes it very difficult, basically, to bring the parts that you need to supplement your defenses. So I think this is a step forward for the four countries but this doesn't mean they are actually especially for Qatar, it's ruling out from its diplomatic stand that it's always about dialogue, extending relations with others and building bridges but this doesn't mean you need to just wait for diplomacy, you have to have the capacity to defend the sovereignty of the country. So clearly much more than an economic and an industrial agreement, it's a clear strategic signal as we've just heard about self-reliance in the Middle East and beyond, I guess. Absolutely. You're looking at the different architecture of security in the region post-Israel-US war in Iran. All the guarantees that were standing for the region where you heard Tom Barak, the special envoy just yesterday, talk about how the US is shifting from oil for security because he likened the region to a teenager and the US weaning itself off that it'll be there, but not always omnipresent. And that is an awakening for the region. And I think this is something especially for Qatar that has been working on. Yes, I completely agree with Abdullah that, you know, diplomacy is essentially a part of Qatar's foreign policy, but so is deterrence. You've seen how the Qatari armed forces have been able to block about 90 percent of the attacks that emanated from Iran towards Qatari targets. And now, as you see those pictures earlier on about conventional defense systems, tanks and helicopters, gunships, the reality on the The ground has completely changed, not just because of this war, but the war between Russia and Ukraine as well. Now you can deploy cheap drones to hit defense and industrial installations that would cost billions of dollars in damage. And in order for you to counter those attacks, you need robust systems, easy to deploy, cheap to manufacture and quick to replace. And if you are scaling up that kind of technology domestically, I guess you're scaling down your reliance on big Western manufacturers as well. spending billions and billions of dollars is spent on buying state-of-the-art weaponry that we have seen during the course of this war with Iran. The arithmetic just simply doesn't add up when millions are being spent on one interceptor in the face of, you know, a drone that only costs tens of thousands of dollars to manufacture. I wonder how this decision may be perceived by Qatar's Western allies at this time, nations that I guess may see their orders start to dwindle i think the western partners of Qatar they know that very well they know that the GCC countries and Qatar they have been working towards this direction for years working with other partners uh domestically Barzan was working with Turkey with working with other western partners as well in terms of manufacturing uh some of the parts even with EDGE in the United Arab Emirates and other regional countries but this doesn't mean we ruling out the western partners all partners are very important you have different threats now this is very important when it comes to some of the as Osama said, in terms of the drones, because you have a little drone that hit Ras Laffan, which actually cost Qatar almost 100 billion losses over five years. This is something massive for countries. But this doesn't mean you only need to be prepared for the drones, because we are in a very globalised world with AI now is taken over, so you will definitely find new threats coming up in our world with the cybersecurity and maritime now is part of the equation. Maybe it could be other threats coming. So this doesn't mean you need to rely on one. Very, very, very briefly, how soon before we start to see any of this happening at scale? I mean, we don't know. I mean, non-state actors are taking notes and they're learning from other countries in the region and they are actually using, like recently we heard about reports that the Houthis are using AI for the drones and for the missiles to make them. So I think everyone is getting creative nowadays and this is where the countries need to be creative in terms of defenses. So time is of the essence. Clearly, good to have you both on this. Many thanks. Salman Bin Javed and Abdullah Bandar Al-Ataybi, Assistant Professor of International Affairs at Qatar University. Thank you both.