Could a serial killer be targeting homeless men in Lansing?

Question is, could a serial killer be on the loose in Lansing, Michigan? That's what police are currently trying to figure out right now. They think that the same person is responsible for the deaths of five unhoused men along a popular river trail. Joining us now is Michigan criminologist David Hayes. David, thanks for shedding some light on this. This is a very peculiar case. What do these deaths have in common so far? So I think it's important that we separate one of them out. So there is one death that has happened, it was a stabbing of a younger man about 22 years old. And there's a person in custody and charged with that killing already. The other four, though, seem to be similar. And I don't want to go as far as saying that they're related quite yet, because, of course, there's not that much information. But the victim type and the methodology, the MO are incredibly similar. So the younger victim is kind of the anomaly on the side. And then the four older men have been killed via blunt force trauma ostensibly while they were sleeping and they were older men. So you can see that like Daniel Lusk, the 22 year old, there's someone has been charged with that particular stabbing. The other four incredibly similar Older men sleeping in what's called Lansing's River Trail, which is a bridge covered area where there's some shelter from the elements. Okay, so this August 20th, this individual, this victim that we're looking at here on the screen, a man has been charged with his death. Obviously, there were other incidents after that. There was one on August 30th. There was another one in October. Did those happen after that individual was taken into custody? That individual was taken into custody pretty quickly after the death of Lusk, I believe. And I've talked to some Lansing officials there, of course, it's an active investigation and that I'm not a part of. So the information is limited, but that one younger person seems to be an anomaly. And the other four are, if I was going to investigate this as related homicides, those are the four I would focus on. Wow, I wanna ask you, what makes a person a serial killer? And what trademarks of this case do you think, and I know you alluded to it, but what trademarks match that description? So the definition for a serial killer comes from the FBI, actually. And truly, it's as simple as someone who murders three or more people with a cooling off period in between. That differentiates us from a mass shooter, for example, who's in a single location with three or more people, or a spree killer who is three or more people in very quick succession over multiple locations. So definitionally, we're talking about a person who's killing three or more people in a similar manner with that cooling off period in between. In a similar manner, it's thrown in for our purposes right now. Since every one of these individuals, these are older men, I don't have a record of their mental health issues or drug use issues. And that's something that we would really dig into. So if we were going to really investigate this, we'd look at the victimology of it. And then the victimology is essentially how much effort we put into finding out who these people were as people and victims, and then what put them in this situation to begin with. And maybe people that they had interactions with, if they were drug users, maybe a dealer or something like that, that maybe they all dealt with. Right, right, and even then, so the hardest crimes to investigate and solve are those that are seemingly random. If there's no connective tissue between offender and victim, and it's truly a random thing, for most serial murders, they're a crime of opportunity. And someone will just wait and they'll see a likely candidate. people are targeted, sex workers are targeted, mainly because society at large and even their own families sometimes have just given up and don't have contact anymore. So they're choosing a victim pool that won't be missed, and that's kind of a big tragedy of all of it. We've talked about the victims here, let's focus on the killers. Have you ever interviewed a serial killer? And maybe aside from that, is there a common reason that they commit these heinous crimes? So, yes, I have. And their reasons are generally their own. But if we can break this down into a larger overall piece, most behavior that we all engage in is about need fulfillment. And how that need develops varies though. So there's the big difference right there. And if someone has power issues, for example, so they're very powerless in their daily lives Or they have historically never had control over a situation or any number of issues with family or work or life has beaten them down in their perspective. It doesn't really have to be real life, it's just perception too. So this is a chance to exude a bit of power. these men in this particular situation were probably sleeping when when they were attacked which is an incredibly vulnerable uh position and um that just goes to that idea we found a likely candidate they fit a typology that someone's looking for so quite possibly um older men and uh their reasons uh could vary from you know and i don't want to give a specific reason But anything from past trauma to mental health issues, to a severe form of schizophrenia, there could be hallucinations involved. And this community is largely insular. So they don't really talk to outsiders, they don't really talk to police, and for good reason a lot of times. But since we don't know, we can only assume that the victims are chosen based off of their vulnerability and the person deciding on that vulnerability, whatever their need fulfillment is is going to be at the root of it and we won't know until we have more information. Well, you live in the Michigan area, again, this is taking place in Lansing. Should the general public be concerned here? I think the general public should be concerned for the safety of their fellow community members, really. Serial killing is incredibly rare. It's one of the rarest crimes, despite what true crime tells us. Because it plays well on our phones, it doesn't really mean it is prevalent in real life. There is a danger to, right now, older homeless men who are sleeping outside. And does the average family have to worry about this particular person? No, of course not. Is the world incredibly safe? No, of course not. But we shouldn't have any heightened level of awareness outside of looking out for the people who desperately need our help the most. And that would include our unhoused populations. David Hayes, thank you for your time. My pleasure. Thank you. We'll be right back.