Is Donald Trump betraying Ukraine?

President Zelensky, you know, because we spoke about it, met Andy Burnham yesterday and in comments variously throughout the day, he has said, you probably know some of this already if you listen to LBC this morning, the president of Ukraine has said that the U.S. is withholding intelligence that helps Ukraine defend itself, is interrupting Starlink, Starshield satellite systems, impeding Ukrainian operations and Ukrainians are dying as a result of the decisions that Donald Trump made. Trump is making, that President Zelensky says, and you can see why he says it, a favour of Vladimir Putin. Is it time that we in Britain, in the form of our prime minister, just said as much, said what's happening, which is that the US president, supposedly our ally in NATO, is betraying Ukraine. 0345 6060 973, the number to call. You can text 84850. The Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, as you know, met President Zelensky yesterday. It's clear to the world, again, who the aggressor is in this conflict. However, in these moments, Britain will continue to provide you with whatever support that we can. And today, I'm announcing that we are accelerating the delivery of British-made air defences for you. And we will make sure that they're in place as soon as possible. I've also asked all of our ministers here in the government to do whatever they can extra to support you. And we are looking at all possible avenues. So we're just pleased you are here to be able to show you our support. But through you, all of the people of Ukraine have our support. Well, also in an exclusive interview yesterday on Piers Morgan on censored, President Zelensky was asked whether he feels betrayed by Donald Trump. Do you feel betrayed by what has been happening? Really, yes, really, between us. But, I mean, it's a little bit more complicated than just my emotions or my feelings. Yes, it depends not on me. I mean, our country has to survive. It's a pity that we are losing a strong partner. Well, I'm joined by John Foreman, former UK defence attache at the British Embassy in Moscow and in Kyiv as well. So a man who knows both countries well. Good afternoon to you. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. President Zelensky is right, isn't he, when he says, it's not just my emotions about what I'm seeing that matter. This is more complex than that. And yet at one level, there is a simplicity to it, isn't there? You're either supporting Ukraine or you're not. Yeah, you could hear the hurt in President Zelensky's voice yesterday. because it wasn't just about yesterday it's been about the last couple of weeks and Ukraine suffered grievously at the hands of Russian missile attacks and drone attacks across the country there's been large numbers feeling casualties, large numbers of children of course those images are being pumped into Ukrainian homes and to the president himself and on top of that then you have these eruptions from the other side of the Atlantic by President Trump who's blaming Ukraine for basically defending itself blaming President Zelensky for leaving a country at war in defending itself and then signing dodgy deals with the Russian president which won't actually affect anything to try and distract from his own incompetence for launching a war in Ukraine so I'm not surprised these words came out with Piers Morgan and and yesterday you could tell that the winter's coming um Russia stepping up its attacks and at the time in Ukraine's hour of need the American president's gone walkabout in the Commons yesterday Andy Burnham was asked isn't this just another example of Donald Trump's treachery now and you may have heard Andy Burnham's response you know in my position as Prime Minister I have to build bridge build bridges or rebuild bridges and I I understood why he he answered in that way and yet the truth is it's wholly inadequate isn't it really to the problem that that Ukraine is facing when it comes to Donald Trump's about turn well I mean I don't envy the Prime Minister he wants to focus on bus fares or whatever and now he's got this major international issue that the American the American America who's been the backbone of our defense for 75 80 years and it's been seen and it presents itself as the home of the free and the leader of the free world is not acting like that so I think you know we look at this immediate issue of Ukraine how do we support Ukraine through the winter keep its skies safe how do we help its civilians how do we raise costs on Russia but then the wider context is European leaders looking askance at America saying all the assumptions we've made on our own defense over the last 80 years are they valid and then at the same time America's also conducting a review of its forces in Europe and what number forces it keeps for the future i think all this behavior is going to force Europe to hopefully um wake up finally and actually do more for its own defense and security which it's been reluctant to do for many years and of course its own defense and security absolutely includes the defense of Ukraine i know there are people who disagree with that but no i mean i think you i mean i think that there's two parts i think of this why does it why does it matter to us the British it matters because Kyiv is three and a half four hours from here there's a bloody war going on we already hosted 300,000 Ukrainians here opened our doors across Europe and the money to keep it going because we know if Ukraine falls they'll make the east of Europe in particular incredibly unstable through refugees and also because Russia will use Ukraine to push its forces further westwards and threaten more of Europe so I think that's practical matters and then on the other side it's actually moral principle of the principle of the thing that we went to war twice in the last century because we disagree with the principle that might is right, that you can just stamp into another people's country and take it over. And the king said in 1939, if we allow this to happen, that will set a climate of fear not just over Europe but also around the world. So I think the British public understand that. I know that people are on your phone and sometimes will shout at you, but I think 75%, I think, percent of the public agree with that position, 25% are concerned. And also if you look at polling about the number one threat to the UK, it's Russia and I looked at the UK this morning clear of Iran clear of terrorism clear of everybody else so it matters to us this and I think the principal position the British government's taken of all flavors over the last four and a half years has been commendable you talk about the 1930s I mean in America was arguably slow to join that war and and help in the defense of Europe but it certainly wasn't actively supporting Hitler was it at the time we now have a US president who arguably is doing that yeah so i think president trump has had a strange affinity and affection for president putin for many years uh i think he respects their his sort of putin strongman style you know the big tough guy and that Putin can sort of say things and things happen within the system but i think also his animus towards zelensky both because Zelensky uh didn't launch an investigation to Biden during his first term and of course Zelensky is the obstacle as Trump sees it to peace because Trump promised peace before he became president and that's not so that happened so he can't be the peacemaker and he didn't help him to get re-elected and he's getting away with better mates but he's being better with his friend Putin so I think a lot of it does come from Trump himself I heard Zelensky talk about Trump's advisors but I think you know Trump is not surrounded by people who say no to him he's surrounded by sycophants so I think there's a lot of it's coming from POTUS in his desperation to reclaim some of his popularity ahead of the elections in a couple of weeks time of course there's there's a limit to what we can do you know we heard yesterday what we're doing speeding up an offer that we've already made about defense um missile systems but should western leaders like Andy Burnham and other European leaders be insisting if they have the power to insist on anything from Donald Trump for transparency about why the Starlink or Starshield satellite system this intelligence that the U.S. is according to Zelensky with withholding from Ukraine and impeding through that satellite system what they can do why aren't we pushing Trump on that more in a for more transparency on it but also in a tougher way is it pointless is he that powerful no i think um i've said before on the media i don't think we want want to enter a war of words public slugger match with President Trump but i think it helps and that's why i'm slightly concerned about the way the anger and is becoming clear in President Zelensky's voice and some things are coming out but you know sometimes words matter and Trump's got a very thin skin so i would imagine that let's do what we can in public to support Ukraine give it more arms at the European level working through the E3 which is Britain France Germany um the coalition with our European partners to do whatever we can to help Ukraine in this hour of need and let's work offline through our channels the National Security Advisor through the British Embassy uh into the system to find out what's going on and to prevent it happening again i think also to set out to the Americans the consequences of their action you know they want to have they say Europe is a critical national interest of the United States that's in their policy documents but the way they're going about it is doing deep damage to America now and in the future i think but i absolutely understand diplomacy and care with words and what you say in public versus what you say in private i think everybody understands that but what we're seeing here is an American president who appears to be actively betraying Ukraine in a way that leaves Ukrainian people and men women and children dead um we see him saying openly the president openly uh that you know you talk about President Zelensky's words President Trump said just yesterday, I think he, Zelensky, is the one in the way of peace. President Putin wants it more. I mean, it's the, you know, the inverse is true, isn't it? And yet he says that and we're asking Zelensky to temper his words. Shouldn't we be pushing Trump more or are we in private? I'm sure we are. And I think the prime minister made that point clear. But I think the problem is we're all between a rock and a hard place because there's lots of talk in Europe that we Europeans can stand up and put our own defence down and we just get rid of the American strategic autonomy. But I think, you know, I heard the president of Lithuania tell me, you know, that's not a decade away, at least a decade away. So we're heavily entwined with America through finance, through trade, through defence and security, the ultimate guarantee of our security for NATO. And trying to wish these things away won't happen. So we have to manage this problem. you know there's a lot of stormy weather coming across the Atlantic from the direction of the President United States we just have to pour I think manage our way through this poor oil and troubled waters sometimes we have to go with the with the storm sometimes you have to ride it out we're just going to have to try and keep the ship at an even keel for the next couple of years or at least until November we see what happens in the Senate and House of Representatives and then perhaps that provides some sort of check and balance on Trump's misbehavior but I think it's also interesting for me is the reaction inside the United States I lived in Washington I worked in the Pentagon this is not a you know Trumpian America versus us this is very much the way that Trump is behaving and Republican voices in the Senate pushing back heavily about what's happening with Starlink sort of general incompetence the clown show which is coming out of Washington president well that's that's a a drop of optimism there you leave us with thank you very much