Labour to end deals with Greens backing 'Zionism is racism'

But let's talk about Labour's stance. Alex Hearn is co-director of Labour Against Anti-Semitism. When you consider the work that Saqib and others did to rid your party of a real menace that I'm sure you agree it had some years ago, you must be surprised to see this popping up over on the Greens. Good morning to you. Good morning. Yes, it's been very strange watching the Greens embrace activists expelled and suspended from the Labour Party for anti-Semitism. um and i have mixed feelings about what's going on about the reaction to why why mixed alex well on the one hand it's a cordon which is great and it is more than the lib dems have done and it's great this has finally happened so thumbs up for that but on the other hand he hasn't ruled out mr mr burnham uh andy burnham hasn't ruled out a general election coalition and this is the bare minimum asking green councillors to denounce racism in their party and it's it's taken too long as well it only took a letter to him from labor against anti-semitism in the national press and the public outcry to make it politically necessary to do this so it's been quite slow in coming and i don't want to be grateful for crumbs off the table this is a this is a supposedly anti-racist party who claim to hold the moral high ground so it's not a lot to ask asking greens to denounce racism and possible human rights breaches within their own party i mean it's the least that should be asked and even if even if the motion itself is revoked it would still only paper over the cracks because revoking a motion isn't the same as changing a culture and what lead do you think mr burnham should be taking alex i would have liked to have seen him demand that the motion get revoked that should have been for me i mean i don't think he has that power certainly he obviously is a very powerful man but i don't think that actually forced him to be able to achieve that does it alex no no but he can certainly call ask for it call for it and demand it um the problem is that the people within the Green Party um who are these kind of Labour rejects if you like are creating policy you know and the Zionism is racism motion was brought by someone who said that synagogues should be confronted and that Zionists should be hunted worldwide someone who according to U.S. court documents was a close friend of an al-Qaeda terrorist who tried to bomb Heathrow Airport I read that those people need to be kicked out of the Green Party so why don't they start why don't we the Labour Party start demanding that those people have to go. Alex Hearn, your co-director of Labour Against Antisemitism. Thanks for your time this morning, 10 after 7. Listening, Fahima Mohamed, who's a Green Party member and broadcaster. Your reaction to what we're hearing from Labour as regards deals with the Greens. Good morning to you. Good morning. I think here we have two separate issues. Labour has every right to decide whom it governs alongside itself, but the Green members also have a right to debate and determine their own policies. The important distinction is being opposing a political ideology and discriminating against Jewish people. They are not automatically the same thing. We do take and I personally do take anti-Semitism seriously, just as like, you know, Islamophobia seriously. So Jewish people must never be held responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. And Palestinians should never be denied equal rights or self-determination. I also think that, you know, Labour needs to explain what happens to local residents if these arrangements collapse. Councils exist to deliver service, not simply to conduct national political dispute. And the test for every party should be consistent. And people, you know, from, you know, we have to protect people from discrimination, protect legitimate political debate at the same time and uphold equal rights. Just to clarify, Fahima, sorry to talk over you, to clarify, you are supportive of the motion at Brighton or you're against the motion at Brighton? I'm supportive of the Zionism that has a meaning that the Green Motion addresses as ethno-nationalistic political project and its consequences for Palestinian rights. But I would not assume that every Jewish person who identifies as a Zionist supports discrimination. But to your point, which I think is well made, surely local authorities are about providing books in libraries and making sure that the streets are swept and there's safety. It's not about taking positions in the Middle East if you're running Ealing Borough Council, is it? Well, I think it is part of it. Like we said, parties have a right to put forward policies that are several. There are several policies that were put forward in the Green Party, and, you know, this was one of them that was, you know, foreign policy related. But it doesn't mean that just because we're a Green Party, we cannot discuss this and we cannot. This was one of many motions. You do see it as anti-Semitic, don't you? The motion? I don't see it as anti-Semitic. I think that there's a lot of Jews that don't see themselves as Zionists and there's a lot of Zionists that are not Jewish. I do not see this as anti-Semitic. anti-semitic you're in a position now where some of your green colleagues or friends who are jewish could risk disciplinary action if they attend synagogue why no i don't believe that is true because that was the amendment that mr polanski wanted the idea of disciplining wanted as part of it and you were there i wasn't so i appreciate i'm but i read that it didn't go through that that can't be right i mean i don't agree with everything the prime minister says but he is right when he says this is anti-semitic fahima no it's not anti-semitic we are not here to punish jewish people in any form and way yes i do feel that there might be some more clarity to the actual um sort of policy when it comes to certain things but it's not demeaning or discriminating against anyone it is just about the ideal you know ideology and what is the political position of people who believe that you know there isn't supposed to be equal rights surely lastly you must concur it's gone down very badly with the general public i'm not saying there's not an element within your party that support but with the general public who maybe you would want to attract to vote green they are not happy with this policy you accept that for hima absolutely and that's what political parties are all about not just in this but in everywhere but i find it quite interesting that you know the consistency of the argument we've had public discussions about whether islam is compatible with the west you know whether muslim prayers is act of domination or whether islamic beliefs threaten british culture often the defense is free speech and legally people absolutely have the right to criticize islam judaism christianity but suddenly when we're discussing zionism a political ideology with different interpretations we're being asked whether criticism itself crosses the line i would want to see that we have you know a consistency here and i'm not arguing that antisemitism should be tolerated okay i will We'll end it there. Thank you for your time, Fahima. Mohamed, you're a Green Party member and broadcaster. I'll come over for your views. If you were flirting with the Greens, as I think I said last week, my view has always been they were nutty but nice. Now, not so sure. We'll take your views on that. And surely local authorities, as I said to that broadcaster there, it should be about making sure there are books in the library, right? Really?