Podcast Episode 1: Prevention Strategies That Resonate with Today's Youth

Communities Talk About Prevention podcast. Communities talk to prevent alcohol and other drug misuse. Episode one, prevention strategies that resonate with today's youth. Guest, Steve Wohl, Ronan, Montana. Hello, everyone. I'm your host, Rear Admiral Christopher Jones, Director of SAMHSA's Center for Substance Abuse Prevention. Thank you for joining us today. Today, I'm pleased to be joined by Steve Wohl from Ronan Charter Academy. He has participated in SAMHSA's Communities Talk initiative and has firsthand experience designing and leading prevention efforts in Ronan, Montana. Steve, thanks so much for being here. It's great to have you. I appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, and let's get right to it. So we know that today's youth are navigating a complex social and digital landscape, and substance use prevention efforts need to evolve to stay relevant. In this episode, we really want to talk about prevention strategies that truly resonate with youth. So you're living this every day in school. I have a 13-year-old. I'm sort of living it from the parent side and the prevention side. But from your experience and perspective, what prevention approaches or messages do you find that resonate most with youth right now? I think I'm in a school setting and the youth, they really seem to attract to guest speakers. You know, there are people that are on hand especially a lot of times people that are more their age um that that helps a lot um of course uh they're they're intrigued a lot by videos and even having rappers you know stuff like that that that they attract to uh to get the message and um you know i consider myself old school these guys keep me young but uh you know as far as where we are those are things i think that they care most about and it kind of hits home with them a little bit, I think that would be what I would say. Okay. And so when you were thinking about your communities talk event, how did you engage the experiences or voices of young people and sort of there, you mentioned just now sort of having peer voices, right? People who they identify with, connect with, how did you incorporate that into your event and I'll just say a couple of years ago at SAMHSA we did a challenge where we actually asked 14 to 18 year olds to pitch us their best ways to reach young people about fentanyl and fake pills and what we heard so often is the as you use the term old school approach of like adults talking at kids was not going to work so how did you make sure that that perspective was incorporated to into your community's talk event well um it's been a it's been a challenge and i'm a risk taker so what we've done is we've tried a lot of different things and um so it's always hit and miss and and if it works hey great we can do it again if it doesn't hey we tried you know type of thing um i think some of the things that um trial and error some of the things that have worked is uh we do a lot during especially in october during red ribbon week um we i call it red ribbon month we're so blessed that i had to turn people away believe it or not i got such an outreach of people and so we also do mental health awareness month and um the first thing that i that sticks out the most is we had kids make commercials um and it was there as a class um they had to get in groups i could be they could do a radio commercial and they could do a tv commercial um or they could do a skit and uh one specific little boy hunting's big in montana right so it was during hunting season and he was mad because he was going to be gone with his dad hunting and probably the best one i've ever seen he threw a tantrum i said i'm sorry buddy you know you got to do it if you don't you get a zero and the way he went and he came back and turned it in it could have been he didn't have to edit it you could have put it on tv uh he did a he did a video with his father a hunting video and um he pretended he was drinking and taking pills and he was out in the woods and he thought he saw a deer and he shot his dad and then at the end it had rest in peace dad it had the whole obituary and he did a phenomenal job and all the kids the room was silent it was it was that it was that impact um we've had other ones um you know where where kids uh uh made things up from drunk driving and they got cops involved and they they they did the whole thing and the scene and kids uh rollovers i mean it's phenomenal the kids really took to that um so that was one that was real successful we had them do videos um or tv commercials and or ads uh also we had man i get emotional talking about it we had a girl that would struggled in school and i i'm not i just say uh also if kids are struggling i wonder why and where i live i think the safest place for them is school because they get friends they get an education they get to eat they're safe and a lot of times i stay late i just wonder what these kids are going back to and what they're going to see and what they've been through in their life and um i took a chance uh i brought in some recovering alcoholics and drug addicts into our school and they're great uh they came in and a little girl got up and ran out of class and i didn't know and a lot of times that happens during this month uh it really hits home with some kids and so i went and got her in the hallway and she's crying and she goes um my dad's one of those sitting up there i haven't seen my dad in three years i was like whoa and so um that was last year fast forward this year um i said hey um would you ever consider speaking to the student body she said yes oh lord she probably spoke for 20 minutes and um in front of 450 of her peers uh 450 kids and we all sat there we had tears her dad you know was up there sorry you know i this and that how drugs and alcohol affected their life and pretty soon kids got up and went up and hugged her and and it man they just brought our whole school together it was amazing having her talk yeah i mean it's really great i think both just having that personal connection and experience makes it real for people, right? And recognizing that alcohol use disorder, substance use disorder, drug use, mental health challenges, they're not happening on the fringes of society. They're happening in homes throughout communities in our country, but there is so much fear and stigma and shame in talking about it, but there's so much power in putting a face and name to it. I'm a person in long-term recovery and I've seen that in my own life where, you know, it just immediately breaks down those walls when you can say, I'm just like those people that you think are bad people, right? And so we can start to change that culture. And I think young people putting voice to that and their experience is important. But I also think it underscores the role that you and other educators play. And something that we highlight in our prevention work is really, we don't know what kids are facing at home. And sometimes the person who can provide stability remind them that they're loved that they're cared for may not be apparent in that moment it may be that teacher that coach that minister or somebody in their faith community and so when we think about prevention it's so important that we embrace everybody's role because we just don't know we don't know what's happening uh so i love that and i i really like the idea of trying to match stories commercials a haunting example is really great right because that resonates with the people in your community. It might look different somewhere else, but I always say prevention is not one size fits all. You know, how do we really make it resonate in your backyard? So a really great, great and powerful stories. So as you are navigating this, I think you touched on it a little bit, but maybe picking from the example of the young girl that you just talked about, what surprised you most about how other young people engaged uh with the prevention efforts like how did that story or experience start another conversation or get people to engage maybe different than you had expected um a lot of them were embarrassed they wanted to talk they're embarrassed so they came up after class or the next day um i got some texts or not uh emails from some students hey can i talk to you um then i i got our counselors involved too um with that we have a really big counseling staff and um boy some of the some of the things that came about it's horrific but yet it's good we got to address it you know what i mean so uh these poor little kids uh have have been hiding in a shell for so long and they actually felt because uh on i lost my wife to a accident a four-wheeler accident and so i'm raising kids by myself well we've been married before so i have step kids but all four of my step kids they were uh uh they were older than obviously my twins but um they didn't live with us very much we met later in life but um they all have drug and alcohol problems uh all tried to commit suicide twice or more unsuccessful uh some are some have been in prison um two of them couldn't come to the monsignor because they were put away and so i tell my story with the kids and they correlate with that because not only do they have pain i have pain too and they see that and i'm i'm open i'm really open with kids and a lot of a lot of people um i don't always do the politically correct thing let's put it that way and uh kids attract to that um and i'm not i'm not i'm not uh proud of uh some of my stories and stuff and they look and And they're, oh, that happened to me too? Oh, really, coach? You know, wow. And, you know, can I talk to you? And, boy, our attendance, I believe our attendance has gone up through this because they don't have to hide in class. When I see them not in roll call, I always wonder where they're at and what they're doing and if they're okay. And we have some tough kids, but those same tough kids might be in class. They might be outcast in class, but one-on-one, they're great. I'll see them at the grocery store, and they come up. I'm kind of the joke in school because, like I say, I use the term old school a lot, and I'm a disciplinarian, and those kids attract to me in a way, and not being arrogant, but they need discipline. They need structure, and they need to know that someone cares about them. And a lot of times, they don't have that. And I always say, a lot of times, there are some kids that come to school for three reasons. they come to school to socialize they come to school because they have to and they come to school because they get to eat um because they have nothing at home and um direct reflection and so i've taught long enough that i'm teaching kids of kids that i taught i'm teaching their kids and so a couple generations here and i'll say hey i know your mom or i know your dad and i like you do and um you know just this last weekend in softball we had an incident and it broke my heart because um we had some kids get caught vaping on a softball trip and their parents were there and i coached their parents and their parents uh were put away and i was like oh i don't want history to repeat itself you know and um they're such good kids they have so much potential and they're smart and they're athletic and i don't want them to be a statistic and so uh we know we we do a lot my administration um i always tell them hey i'm gonna make you look good if you don't look good bad on me and looking at not only you know what's happening in a kid's life that's right in front of you but recognizing that this is generational right that parents and you know this their their behaviors influence what's going on with kids um and you know i think it's when we think about prevention strategies how do we engage parents right how do we also be that person who is there as a you know safe and stable person in a kid's life i think you know those are really really important pieces and more than anything i think kids want people just to be real uh you know to speak to them and and age appropriate ways but not to don't to sugarcoat stuff or and i think as you said the sort of people are attracted to you because of that um and i think you know these are these are weighty issues but they're the issues that are playing out in a kid's life and they're going to seek information from someone or some place. And so having it from a trusted adult and certainly somebody that's walked that path, I think is really important. And we do have to continue to work to change the culture so that these are just regular conversations that we can have and that it is okay to have them because it's happening in homes and communities, whether we want to talk about it or not um you want to might want to ignore it but it's there yeah and i i think you know one of the things that i have often and you sort of identifying sort of the disciplinarian part of your personality and approach is that really trying to find that balance right so those softball kids who were vaping the first approach should not be like how are we punishing them it really should be like what's going on right how do we understand what might be driving that or what supports do they need so the behavior doesn't continue but historically i think it's been more of a it's a punitive approach and we're not really looking at the underlying drivers right and so it's sort of like when those kids need support and help the most we're just punishing them right or we say you have suspension like i don't know how that really solves any of the underlying issues and so it is trying to find that balance, what they're running from exactly and you try to find the balance of you know you need accountability you need to set healthy boundaries as a as an educator as a school as a parent but also not doing it at the expense of understanding what is going on with that kid and how how can we actually help them address the underlying issues so the behavior doesn't continue or progress so uh i think that's just such an important point great, that's some great facts you got there awesome so one of the things that i'm interested in in prevention is we often talk about what works and the successes, and you've already highlighted a number of things. I think it is equally important that we also give light to the things that didn't work. We thought like something was going to work really great and it felt completely flat because that can help other people not repeat and spend resources and energy on something that may not be, you know, something that is going to be fruitful. So in your prevention work, and your community's talk work were there things that you all said oh man i think this is going to be really great or you sort of had a lesson learned where it didn't go as expected or it just didn't work in the way that you wanted it to work um a couple things come to mind our uh our hospital here is really active with me um and they spend a lot of money this year i'll just go the most recent was this year um we did a we focus each year we kind of even though it's broad spectrum we kind of pick a topic this year was vaping and uh for the for the main topic but we cover everything um and so they put a lot of heart money time into a display on our lawn in front of our school and and so everybody who drives by there's this big display and a percentage of kids across united states that that try vaping ones that haven't and ones that continue to that's you know the statistics and they had great big plates and they were painted they're put on stands and so we put a hundred of the hundred plates out on there and they're all color-coded by uh and and uh all the adults drove by and people come in and what a great display the kids didn't like it they're like whatever they they thought they made fun of it they that bummed me out because those guys put a lot of a lot of time and effort into that that so that display on the lawn didn't work um this time uh another one i work i work uh real closely with the tribe the tribe here and they do a lot for us and um uh they in fact they uh sponsor t-shirts for every single kid in school every year uh they bring in guest speakers and stuff so we sat down and and there was there was a guest speaker i can't remember his name that was highly recommended across the United States he comes in and the kids were bored those two are the recent that this that i just think of that didn't work but on the other hand we've had speakers that were amazing you know too so those are probably the two the two most recent that I didn't feel worked with the kids uh very well um everything else we've had a lot of success I'm proud of our kids I'm proud of the effort people put into us yeah well I think it speaks to you know when you're planning these types of activities making sure that you have young people as a part of those planning efforts right I often say they have sort of the built-in meter to say like this is not going to work I would call it I'm also known for not always being politically correct i would call it a bs meter uh you know like where they can say like nope this is just gonna fall flat right and so then you do save those time and resources and you're creating content or activities that are that are relevant for kids and they'll tell you if you ask yes they will you create a safe space for them they'll let you know that what you're thinking is ridiculous and i appreciate that we've tried to do that with our work in CSAP, where we have worked with CADCA, the anti-drug coalitions, to have some youth advisory feedback. And we had a youth summit where we really asked questions like, what can we be doing better in order to make prevention resonate more with young people? Or how would you design it? And I think those are important questions at a community level, at a school level, of asking kids to provide that feedback to say, you know, what is going to be most relevant. And so as you think about your community and the young people that you're working with, what are some of the supports and resources that you think are really needed to support young people? And a sort of second part of that question is, you know, where are we falling short? I think oftentimes we can do a pretty good job of enumerating what are the things that people need, but that doesn't always line up with the resources that are available. So what do you see as some of the key supports or resources, and then any strategies that you've tried to do to address gaps in getting those resources and supports? Well, I wrote down, I had a list here, and I'd like to just read you the list. This is just this year. This is how I am supported in our program here. We had our St. Luke's Hospital with us. Our tribe came in. We had our officers, our tribal officers came in and spoke. Our DEA agents came in and spoke. VA, we had tribal investigators also. So they came in and put on a show, um, for the kids of, uh, all the drugs that they confiscated on the reservation in the past year and stops, um, they showed, uh, you know, uh, I guess I would call it heists almost at local motels, uh, gas stations, things like that. You gotta watch though. Some of those kids' relatives are in those. That I learned that. I mean, we didn't plan for that. all of a sudden you got a kid get up crying that was my mom that was my dad but these guys came in and did a great PowerPoint for us and showed us how to um how to uh what they look for uh i had a sex trafficking uh guy come in um got touched home with a couple kids uh i also um uh We have in our community an ex-marine hurt. He was my oldest son's age. He got hurt with both of his legs taken. And he came and he became a drug addict, drug dealer. And he comes in and speaks to the kids in his wheelchair. Now, he's going nationwide now. So the kids really attracted him. And he was born and raised there. And he tells them, I was in school. And in that bathroom, I took my first hit. and i mean he he's really really impactful um we had uh let's see here we had um i had professional athletes come in i had michael cooper from the los angeles lakers come in i had preston denard from the los angeles rams come in um they happened to be coming to town and i reached out and they they bit they came and talked to our kids gave them jerseys and you know i learned just as much if not more than the kids do uh um the one at the one thing i got from Michael Cooper he says i wasn't a student athlete i was an athlete student you know i you know and i flunked my first year you know becomes on you know a five-time NBA champion um that caught the kids attention and uh been being a coach also i'm with the kids more because i coach so sometimes i think we're with we're with the kids way more than the parents are uh we see them you know more often what i'm proud of with our kids um not only do we have obviously a drug and alcohol policy we have attendance and grade policy and my team GPA this year was three i think 3.17 um that's 35 kids um and attendance was almost perfect and the minute season's over it plummets and then um it's it's sad but it does um i had i had our mental health people come in um with us that are that are and their office is near our school um they come in the mental health people um and then we i had individual people i had i had our marijuana group or i had our fentanyl group come in i had our um vape crew i had our uh opioid crew they were all separate entities that i had come in um this year i said i had to turn people away and then probably the coolest story is um a drone guy came in and filmed all this stuff for us and put it to music last year and i hadn't seen this guy in 30 years and i was i was i was uh i got out of my car with my kids and he says hey hey wool how are you and i said good i no idea who this guy was and he said um that he was bullied in school and i saved his life and i thought all right where's this going you know in front of my kids he came over and he gave a story of um when i was a senior he was a freshman and i remember him he's a little guy and um kids were picking on him he said i told him to leave him alone and the kids thought i was joking but they put him in lockers and lock him in the locker old school stuff and um always hit him and make fun of him and he said after i told those guys leave him alone he did and he said because he was headed down the wrong path and he said that kind of changed life then he grew then he got into the he retired from the air force and he came he says i owe you one and i said you don't owe me anything pal i go i go i remember you but you know what he goes no i owe you and he came and videoed and did all the choreography everything for our red ribbon week we do a fun run that culminates at the end and and he uh it went viral here and he and he uh did that all on his own dime and then he got up and spoke um on behalf of uh bullying in schools and how he was bullied and he started to use alcohol and drugs to escape and um that and now and he says then he talked about success as a choice and the avenue you want to take and where are you going that one cannot ignore in fact he called me um yesterday and wanted to know if he could fly it over during my kids graduation and and uh he said he wanted to touch my kids as mom the wings to heaven to get to graduation i thought you know that i never i never knew it's just you never know what impact you're going to have on people and you can't take back a first impression and and so when we have these get these people in if it touches one kid's success but we're lucky it's touched a lot of kids I mean, a lot of kids it's been successful. Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, I think it really underscores what we often try to teach in prevention work while we, you know, we're raising awareness about substances and fake pills and vaping and the consequences. I think fundamentally, we're also trying to teach people problem solving and life skills and how to handle emotions and conflict and, you know, how to be a good human being. And the payoff for doing those things is that people are typically not using substances but we also know things like bullying or cyber bullying are very much strong risk factors for substance use right especially among young people because they're they're coping trying to cope and substances are you know like vaping are readily available or alcohol readily available in communities so it's important that you're changing that school culture to say the norm in our school is we're not bullying people that that is not an acceptable part of who we are as a school culture. And, you know, I mean, you're reflecting a long ago period when we didn't even fully understand those connections, but it underscores that something that you didn't even recognize you were doing or weren't like making those connections had this lasting impact to somebody. And I think it's an important story because that moment of kindness or that slight change in how other people might be treating somebody can have a massive payoff in the trajectory of their life and I think those are very tangible stories to have other kids understand right being kind you never know you never know what's how somebody is showing up and the impact that it can have I think in our school you know my administration does a great job of trying to protect kids and stuff and I know my daughter just went through some stuff and and you know my daughter is a straight A student she's a good athlete she's a good kid and she had some people saying some stuff about her and it's it's affected her immensely but anybody can do this right you know they'll do how about face-to-face but it's easy to do this and and uh i wish we never had social media i'm glad i grew up when i did because we had to we had to address things face-to-face and we had to talk and communicate now they do it by typing and it's it's not i mean i i have a 13 year old and this is the anxiety that uh i have of like you know kids having phones and texting and you know trying to help set appropriate boundaries and you know help her understand somebody might say something but that is like how you respond to that you know uh those are just like life skills right and and i didn't get the the playbook as a parent of how do you navigate a 13 year old in 2024 uh and so it is you know it's important one of her school they have you know no phones during school and i to me that is just something that has been really helpful uh for them to be able to focus on their academics but in non-school hours right there there are there are no limits right unless parents are are engaging or other adults are engaging and i think it's important to recognize that while there can be many benefits, it helps if she's walking home by herself, I can talk to her, you know, or she can let us know what's going on in her life. There are also real risks. And I think we have to help as part of our prevention works, help both students and parents and educators understand, you know, how does social media or phones access, how does that relate? I had some specialists come in and talk to us on cyberbullying. I have some cyberbullying people come in and then like i say that the sex trafficking guy he talked about that how it all started and then i had a retired police officer come in and he was one of the people that um he would pretend he's a 13 year old girl and stuff and everything and he was he was uh i used to coach against him and i asked him to come in and he did a great job and he laid it all out how they how they bait these guys and stuff and everything and that that got the kids attention you don't know who you're talking to because um one of my students who's 13 mind you was talking to uh some boys in new york guess what there weren't boys in new york you know and so and they you know the the percentages are higher on the reservation for people getting taken and stolen and stuff and so we cover that too during during that and i've had people in talking on that and I've been blessed with all the people that came in and talked and a lot of those really hit home with kids, too. Yeah. Well, I have two questions, and I think it builds on just what you said, that you've been blessed to have people in your community and even traveling professional players who are willing to engage. So if you were, you know, an organization somewhere else who was thinking about how do we get better involved with young people and prevention, where would you tell them to start as an organization? Say another school, like where should they start if they are just at the beginning stages of trying to do more in the prevention space? Well, definitely with SAMHSA, I would start with that for sure. um and then i would go local first um start small um trial and error start small and get um uh what i did i kind of started by myself a little bit and then um i'm a big trust guy so i want to trust people around me and and and who's bought in and who's who's for real and who's you know who's just you know and uh so i would start small i wouldn't start with the big group i'd start with someone that has passion for it to help um and then get a you know a small committee and and and put your you know i always say more eyes more ears uh help but too many hinders and and uh and and on the reservation we have a saying there too many too many chiefs not enough indians that's okay you know we say and so we and it's a joke here um when we use that loosely that um you got to have a common goal you have to have um people that want to help and into the outreach and and go out and talk to people who might want help first and like i say our our uh our tribe our uh our hospital our police force um our drug task force those all they all get along because there's some people reach out to and they don't want to have anything to do with a or b you know and um to see who works together and, um, and, and start small and built And, and I don't know, I don't know how or what or who put the word out there for us, but I have people outreaching to me a lot, um, which is flattering, very flattering. But like I say, I, I took a chance. I'm a risk taker and, uh, I live the life. Um, I don't talk it, I live it. And so that's what I would say. Okay. No, that's great. And I think, you know, by doing that and having those connections across the community, you also make it easier for young people to engage and that you're never losing sight of what is your end goal, right? You're trying to improve that community context, help individuals and families, in particular with a focus on students who are struggling. So, I mean, so many great things, Steve, just really appreciate you for joining and sharing your experience. it is easy to see the passion and emotion and the personal connection and caring that you bring to this. So again, thanks for joining the episode of Communities Talk About Prevention. Steve, I'd like to thank you again for sharing your perspective and your time and your insights and experiences. To learn more about SAMHSA's Communities Talk initiative and find resources to support substance use prevention efforts in your own community, visit samhsa.gov /communities talk We hope you'll join us for future episodes as we continue to highlight prevention stories from communities across the country. Thanks very much. For more information, visit SAMHSA.gov forward slash prevention hyphen campaigns.