Thursday, Sep 10: The Flock Problem Is the City Council's Own Fault

Good morning, you could just change the parking spot. So Tim is always entertaining at the break. We're having a really good conversation that would make a number of our audience members cry if I said it out loud, but it's just between me and Tim and our hopeful predictions for the future, unless you own property in the city of New Bedford, good Lord. Pray John Mitchell runs for re-election. I know a lot of you don't like him. I know a lot of you disagree, I've disagreed with the mayor, certainly. I don't like that he's putting foreigners on the police department. I think that's come to a conclusion, but they're there. As you see the amount of power that individual police officers have, I've always known that. And that's what made me so concerned. But what could be in the future is just terrifying, unless you're a content producer like Tim and myself. In which case, there could be gold in the nails, my God. Anyway, last night, the people you've chosen to represent you in the city council, the very people you've selected and reelected multiple times, in some cases, held another hearing to reiterate that they didn't do enough work, literally voted for stuff that they had no idea what they were voting for. Think about that. So everything you're witnessing, with the exception of the supporters of flaw cameras, are being done to cover up the mistakes that councilors made when they didn't bother to communicate and read the budget. They didn't bother to even read or ask questions during the hearings that they had with the chief of police. So now, Burgo, Baptiste, Leo Shoket, they're playing cover up for their own activities. For literally not reading, asking questions about stuff they didn't understand, funding programs for the police that they didn't even know what they were voting for. And when they didn't know, they were too embarrassed, I would assume, to ask the proper questions of the chief of police. So this is all a do-over, CYA, choose the adjective. For their lack of work, they're not paying attention. Dare I say, asleep at the switch, right? Dare I say, asleep at the switch. So they had a hearing in the Public Safety Committee on a matter that they put into place not knowing what they were doing. It's so great. And one of these or two of these people thinks they can be the mayor? Come on. I mean, listen, I am praying for the circus to come to town for selfish reasons. But I would love for people out there, it would be a tremendous act of suicide and cruelty. But I would enjoy it if you elected Shane Burgo, the mayor of the city of New Bedford. It would be a tremendous act of suicide on your behalf, charity on the behalf of electing Shane, and a tremendous act of cruelty to elect that man mayor of the city of New Bedford. But don't forget, he knows the answers to every question he asks. He actually said that last night in an act of incredible arrogance. Once again, I mean, I find him really a barrel of laughs. He is so dumb. I mean, really, if you're a pregnant woman out there, please don't take drugs. Don't take drugs. Even if they give you a facility to inject heroin and smoke crack cocaine in the city of New Bedford, please don't utilize it. If you're pregnant, please don't do that. All right. I got a clip. If you didn't hear it, mercifully, they did end the hearing right before the Patriots started. So I was monitoring the meeting, so you don't have to. I'm going to play a clip. The chief of police, he was very informative when he was here on the program, as he usually is. And he was very informative in front of the city council last night. So here is your chief of police. If you missed it in front of the city council, public safety committee last night. Thank you. So we did hear from Flock today. They have, apparently they have quite a few requests to come to places like this and to speak. So they were not able to send somebody today, and they're basically on an eight-week notification schedule. So I think that's pretty far out. But if we're interested in seeing them in eight weeks, we can certainly explore that. But I can take any technical questions that we would need answered by them, and I can relay them and get an answer back much quicker than that. I appreciate them getting in touch with you, chief, and letting us know we didn't receive anything on record. You have a presentation you would like to... Yeah, so I gave handouts. I'll reference them in just a... I'll go through this for a few minutes here that could answer some questions and give some context, and then happy to obviously answer any specific... Second. Motion to receive and place on file by Councilor Abreu, seconded by Councilor Connie, and receive and place on file the presentation about to be given by the chief. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Okay. Good evening, councilors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak again on this important issue. I want to begin by acknowledging that the concerns underlying this technology have legitimacy. Any technology that collects information for law enforcement purposes must be used lawfully, appropriately, and with meaningful safeguards. Residents have a right to know what information is collected, how long it's retained, who can access it, how it's used, and what happens when someone violates the rules. It's important to acknowledge that misuse of an ALPR system is not hypothetical here anymore. Our own audit identified improper use of the FLOC system. We investigated that conduct, took it seriously, and are pursuing accountability. I will not minimize those incidents or ask the council or the public... Chief, I don't mean to interrupt you for a minute. You got to come down from there, Gilly, please. Okay. It might be a technical with the MIS. Thank you. Gus, how are we doing up there? And we're live streaming? Yeah. Mr. Chairman, he's just notifying Gus that we are live, that there was no issues with the live stream, so we are currently live streaming. Okay, so before I let you continue, I apologize, Chief. We just didn't know what was going on here. Let me just note that this meeting is being live streamed and recorded, and the city council's committee meetings can be viewed on city's New Bedford homepage under the quick link, then meetings. With that said, I apologize for the interruption. Good. That's what happens on live TV, right? That's what happens. That's it. All right. So it's important to acknowledge that misuse of the ELPR system is not a hypothetical. We investigated that conduct, took it seriously, and are pursuing accountability. I'll not minimize those incidents or ask the council or the public to ignore them. But the discovery of misconduct and our response to it should demonstrate my commitment to meaningful consequences and lead us to stronger controls. It should not automatically lead us to eliminate every legitimate use of a valuable public safety tool. Some context on how FLOC ended up here. It's important to distinguish ELPR from a new or experimental technology being introduced before its benefits and risks are understood. Automated license plate reader technology has been used in law enforcement for more than two decades. In fact, the International Association of Chiefs of Police survey conducted in 2009 found that approximately 23% of responding law enforcement agencies were using ELPR technology back then. By the time New Bedford acquired this system in late 2024, ELPR was not an untested or emerging concept. It was an established investigative tool already being used by many communities across the country, including most of the cities and towns surrounding New Bedford. FLOC itself had also been operating since 2017. Therefore, New Bedford was a relatively late adopter of both the underlying technology and this particular platform. If we were considering a newly developed technology with little operational history, I would expect a more extensive testing and evaluation period, a limited pilot program, additional vetting, and a broader, more interactive process before full deployment. That type of process is particularly important when the capabilities, risks, accuracy, and legal implications of a technology have not yet been established through widespread use. That was not how ELPR would reasonably have been viewed in 2024. By then, departments had years of experience using it to locate stolen vehicles, identify vehicles connected to serious crimes, find missing and endangered people, and develop investigative leads. Courts, law enforcement organizations, municipalities, and privacy advocates had also been examining the technology for years by then. I was not in New Bedford when the FLOC system was acquired, so I cannot speak to every decision made during its implementation. I'm also not defending the fact that the system was introduced with controls that, in hindsight, were insufficient. Keep in mind, yes, the chief was not here. Chief Jason Thody was not here. Shane Burgo was on the city council. I think the only one who wasn't on the city council was Scott Pemberton and James Roy. I could be a little off there, but certainly Shane Burgo, Ian Abreu, Leo Shoket, Derek Baptiste, Naomi Carney, Sean Alder. They were all on Ryan Perera. They were all on the city council when this was put in place. Council Lopes, he was there. This is unbelievable that these people now, these city councilors, are trying to say, we didn't know anything about it. You funded it. You've had the chief of police in front of you during the budget season. If there's something in the budget that you don't understand, that's when you ask them. Or you could pick up the phone, send them an email. There's a million opportunities to ask department heads questions. And now that the crowd, some of your potential supporters for a mayor's run, are upset. You're trying to, all you're doing by doing, look, the questions have to be asked. But it's multiple years past the date of asking them. It's just, thanks, Tim. It's just crazy. They don't even read the documents. All right, back to the hearing from last night. The policies, access restrictions, documentation requirements, training, and auditing should have been stronger. However, the failure was not the decision to obtain LPR technology. The failure was not establishing a governance structure equal to the power and sensitivity of that technology. It is evident that many police departments across the country failed to predict the potential for misuse. By the way, that's the chief of police, in a political way, saying, you screwed up, city council. You screwed up. He wasn't even here when this stuff was brought in. I would argue that we haven't given meaningful controls a chance here. It is important to understand what this technology actually does and what it does not do. The internet is a valuable but sometimes dangerous research tool, and misinformation is running rampant around this technology right now. A fixed ALPR camera captures a point-in-time image of a vehicle passing a particular location on a public roadway. It records the publicly displayed license plate, the date, time, camera location, direction of travel, and visible characteristics such as the vehicle's color, make, body style, roof rack, damage, or other distinguishing features. You have a screenshot of this in your packet. It does not continuously follow a vehicle. It does not show where the vehicle goes between cameras. It does not record conversations or look inside homes. It does not have facial recognition. It does not contain someone's telephone communications, financial information, medical history, social security number, fingerprints, DNA. A plate image does not establish who was driving the vehicle or prove that anyone committed a crime. What we are able to search for in the system is shown in the handout as well. There are two search functions, a look-up screen and a more comprehensive search screen, which is where we can look for vehicle characteristics like body style, color, damage, etc. An ALPR result is an investigative lead. It must be independently reviewed and validated. It's not automatic probable cause and it should never be treated as automatic proof of guilt. License plates are also different from information taken from a private telephone or the interior of a home. There is a different expectation of privacy on public streets with intentionally public-facing registration plates. A license plate is issued by the government, connected to a government registration system, and legally required to be conspicuously displayed when a vehicle is operated on public ways. Every officer and every member of the public can observe it from the street. And in fact, if your registration can't be publicly viewed, you're violating the law. That does not mean there can never be a privacy concern. When public observations are aggregated over a sufficiently long period or across a sufficiently extensive network, they may reveal a detailed picture of someone's movements, associations, and private life. This is why the number of cameras, camera placement, retention periods, search limitations, sharing restrictions, and audits are so important. Massachusetts courts have recognized this distinction. In Commonwealth v. McCarthy, the Supreme Judicial Court held that the limited use of fixed ALPR cameras in this case did not constitute a search under the Fourth Amendment or Article 14 of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights. The court did not authorize unlimited tracking. It explained that the constitutional question depends on the actual scope of the surveillance and whether it reveals a substantial picture of someone's public movements or exposes the privacies of life. We also now have a very recent decision from our own region. On August 18, 2026, a Bristol County Superior Court judge denied motions to suppress evidence obtained through Fall River's flock system in a murder investigation. I've attached that ruling in your packet. It's very detailed, and it goes through the facts and reasonings for the decision. Detectives had images and descriptions of a gray Chevrolet SUV used in the shooting, but they did not have the license plate. They searched stored flock images, identified the plate, and then reviewed additional images on that vehicle. The court found that seven cameras captured the vehicle on 96 occasions over 19 days. Nevertheless, those point-in-time images did not reveal the occupant's employment, associations, hobbies, schedules, visits to constitutionally sensitive locations, or even their progress along one complete journey. The court concluded that the actual use of the system did not amount to pervasive surveillance and did not constitute a search under the Fourth Amendment or Article 14. That is a Superior Court ruling, not a statewide appellate decision, but it is recent, local, fact-specific application of the controlling legal principles to the same type of flock technology we are discussing tonight. All right, so that's part of the Chief of Police Jason Thody's comments to the New Bedford City Council on the flock camera system. That conversation went on, maybe we'll play more later in the morning, but it is important to remember that your license plate is on your car, and as the Chief pointed out, I've pointed out regularly here on the program, it's a government item designed to track your individual vehicle, make it different from every other car on the road, and it must be displayed publicly. It's something we've settled decades ago in this country. I mean, it's just the hysteria going on around us, and the fact that you have elected officials that approved this system and didn't even know it, and now they're trying to play cover-up, cover your ass, basically, with public meeting time to act like they know what they're doing when they clearly don't. A handful of them do, a handful of them. But I mean, it's really rich, seeing some of this stuff going on out there. All right, I've got to take a quick break. If you want to get in on this, you can. It's 508-996-005. Also, the President last night said he'll give everybody $5,000 after the elections in January. What do you think of that? Personally, I don't know. I've got to hear more. My initial instinct, it's inflationary, unnecessary. We'd all love it, right? We'd all love it. We all loved, many of us anyway, the COVID handouts. But it was inflationary, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. So I'm more concerned with inflation than I am with getting a check from the government for $5,000. As much as I'd enjoy it, I recognize the hangover effect, the inflationary effect of doing something like that, not to mention the deficit, which is also inflationary. But I still think you should vote Republican in November. All right, I've got to take a break. We'll be back. Stick around. Make the safe choice this autumn with Citywide Glass before it gets a lot colder because it's going to. Does your windshield have a big crack in your view? Did you wake up to vandalism overnight? Don't stress. Call the pros at Citywide Glass. They can repair or replace your auto glass quickly and safely. And understand, their mobile tech team will come right to you. Your windshield can be replaced while you're at home, at work, on the job site, even in a shopping center, at no extra charge. Life is busy. Let Citywide Glass make your auto glass repair easy. Citywide Glass, make the safe choice this autumn. Visit CitywideGlass.net. We're talking once again about the flock cameras in the city of New Bedford. Keep in mind, Dartmouth has removed them. Fair Haven very likely will have this conversation at the town meeting by the elected town meeting members. It's an important conversation. We've been listening to the Chief of Police, some of his remarks. I've got more remarks coming up. I've got some people on hold. Good morning. Thanks, Holden. Good morning, Chris. Last night I was there, but I'm listening to you today, and I dropped my phone. Did you call Counselor Burgo dumb? Yeah, he is dumb. Okay, I'll agree with you, but let me also tell you there's another one on there that's dumb, and if I had a choice to pick between the two, I'd think let me give you my thing. Sure, go ahead. Naomi Connie, you know that she slapped my hand and my phone went flying, right? Okay. Okay, she got on WBSN. She made a statement. I didn't assault Mr. Sapioli. I assaulted his phone. That's a dumb statement, but if I had to pick who's going to be the dumbest between Burgo and Naomi, I'd pick Naomi. Do I make any sense? Go ahead. No, well, that's the thing. You can't call somebody dumb because he's making a decision on his own question. That's not why I'm calling him dumb. I know why you're calling him dumb, Chris. The majority of the people you've got listening have common sense. Okay, they know how the system works in New Bedford. I've been complaining about the City Council all along. You know that. All of a sudden it's coming to the truth. Naomi Connie, I didn't assault Mr. Sapioli. I assaulted his phone. And then she gives me a letter saying she apologizes. It's not about you, buddy. It's really not. And my colleagues here on the radio station have noticed the same thing. Brings it all the way back to himself. I know he and Naomi Connie have had differences to include, I think, a court case. Anyway, thanks for the contribution to the program. Back to the Chief of Police. This is very important. What he's about to say here. And again, I know many of you were not watching it. I watch the New Bedford City Council and other elected boards around here, so you don't have to. And try to bring you the highlights that's really important for anybody that lives in the city of New Bedford, does commerce in the city. Certainly if you're a taxpayer in the city of New Bedford, what the Chief of Police is about to say is very important. What policing looks like without this technology. Imagine that a witness to a shooting describes the suspect vehicle as a white SUV with tinted windows and black wheels. Without ALPR, officers may have to stop several white SUVs matching that general description. If we reasonably believe the vehicle may contain an armed suspect, innocent occupants could be detained and under appropriate circumstances, ordered out at gunpoint while officers determine whether they have stopped the correct vehicle. That police response may be lawful and necessary, but it is also very personal and traumatic. An ALPR search may allow investigators to narrow dozens or hundreds of possible vehicles to one or two. Detectives can compare those vehicles against witness accounts, private video, travel time, distinctive vehicle characteristics and other evidence before stopping anyone. Properly governed technology can therefore reduce unnecessary police encounters and intrusions. It can make us more precise. It can eliminate an innocent vehicle just as readily as it can identify a suspect vehicle. The independent assessment of the Brown University mass shooting provides a compelling real world example. That assessment was concluded by the Police Executive Research Forum or PERF. PERF is an independent national non-profit research organization founded in 1976. It's widely recognized for its research, management studies, policy development and executive education involving constitutional policing, violent crime, police technology, accountability and best practices. PERF found that once investigators developed a description of the suspect vehicle, FLOC reduced an investigative universe of thousands of vehicles to two candidates in a matter of minutes. Detectives did not treat those results as proof. They independently evaluated both vehicles, eliminated one and traced the other to a rental agency in Boston, helping identify the assailant. PERF called the LPR information in this case, quote, indispensable, unquote. Its recommendation, however, was not unrestricted use. PERF recommended that Providence maintain its LPR system while continuing to comply with validation, auditing and accountability recommendations. This is essentially the balanced approach I'm asking New Bedford to adopt. The public now expects police to solve serious crimes at a speed that is possibly only through the responsible use of technology. We saw that expectation following the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson during the Brown University shooting and in the continuing investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie. In cases like these, the public expect investigators to quickly examine video, identify vehicles, reconstruct movements, locate witnesses, analyze digital evidence and share accurate information across jurisdictional lines. So that's the chief of police Jason Thody from the city of New Bedford addressing the city council last night. Think about yourself as a potential victim of crime. I hope you never are. But that's really not up to you. And as the chief pointed out here on the program, it's available up on the podcast. And in that example I just played for you, if you're driving an automobile, there's a lot of other people driving a very similar automobile to yours. The only difference is your license plate and obviously the driver. And it really reduces the amount of time and by the way, the added discomfort of being pulled over as a criminal suspect in a crime you had nothing to do with. Right? Nothing to do with. And by the way, the chief goes on in his presentation to talk about an uptick in shootings all throughout the north end and the south end of the city of New Bedford. Princeton Street, the heart of Ward 2 talks all about that shooting. 20 bullets, casings, recovered by the detectives. Now, you've got people in the city reacting to a mob, some really not even from the city of New Bedford, but trying to cover up for the fact that they approved this system without even knowing what they were doing. Totally without even reading the budget that they're paid to read. Paid to read and calling in department heads for questions and they didn't even ask questions about things that they didn't understand in the written text that perhaps they didn't even read. That's why you're getting all this activity now from the city council. I mean, it's really, really crazy. But it does shine a spotlight on just what's really going on. And by the way, you've also got motivations in the group. Not all of them. They each have their own individual motivations. But many are worried about the illegal alien population of the city of New Bedford. Many are worried about the criminal population. Many come out of the criminal population, quite frankly, who are protesting these meetings, who are showing up and disturbing them. As the chief points out, imagine if your child is abducted. Imagine if you're a victim of crime. Or imagine if you're not. If you're just an innocent person and you happen to have a vehicle that matches a description of a violent criminal. Without this technology, you're subject to being pulled over. You're less subject with this technology. Alright, 508-996-0500. Good morning. Thanks, Holden. Hey, good morning. What's happening? I love your comments about the city council. Thank you. You do your homework and I applaud you for it. My reasoning for calling this morning, I want to give a big shout out and congratulations to Ed Pacheco. Who was outspent and signs more exposure from his opponent at least two or three to one. And I'm an old sign guy. But I'll tell you one thing, a great friend of mine told me once, signs don't vote. Correct. This is a perfect example. So Ed Pacheco, for those who don't understand, is now the state representative nominee of the Democrat party. Went to a recount. He survived his margin. It was a 14 vote margin. Did he expand his margin? No, I don't believe so. But still, 14 votes. They're calling him state rep if he wins. I wasn't able to go to the recount, but he did win. It says a lot about our system, our voting system and our machines that do work and they are accurate. As opposed to some people might not say they're accurate, but they are. I agree with you and I think people have to understand when you talk about elections, we got 50 different state elections. Massachusetts uses paper ballots, machines to count, but with a hand recount if necessary. We've got a very secure system, I think, here in Massachusetts. Agreed. And now it's on to November. Right. It'll be very interesting what happens. But just remember everyone, voting has consequences. Yes, voting has consequences. A 14 vote margin means every vote counts. Exactly. Everybody get out and vote in November and you know where to vote. If you don't know where to vote, just go on your local webpage and it'll tell you exactly where to vote. Let me ask you a question. How much do you think the Dartmouth address, Dartmouth Native matters in that state rep race? A lot. A lot. Considerably a lot. Now, don't forget that his opponent had backing of another state rep in Fall River and the Democratic Party. Who was the state rep? Help me out here, because there's a couple over in Fall River. Was it Fiola? No. What's his name? Sylvia? Sylvia, yeah. And he's a good guy. They all take everything very seriously when they're told to vote. They do. They have to. I say that tongue in cheek now. There are consequences to not voting with the Speaker. We all know about that too, don't we? Yes, sir. All right. I'll let you go. Hey, thanks for calling. 508-996-0500. What we're talking about is that Representative Sylvia lost his earmark for autistic children to have a park. Fortunately, a lot of good people stepped up. I want to point out Mike Sylvia from New Bedford Guide gave it a lot of attention, which stimulated a lot of donations including from Timmy Mello and Marcus Farrow and their related companies and non-profits who stepped up to fill the gap to make sure those autistic children have a park despite what the Democrat leadership and the House of Representatives wanted to do to Representative Sylvia and his constituents. This hour is brought to you by the cold beer and the world's best chicken wings at Rose Alley Ale House in downtown New Bedford. Check it out. A nice beautiful covered deck. Great time of the year to sit on the deck or to be inside. Full menu, all kinds of drinks. Potential fun and trouble at Rose Alley Ale House. Get out of the house, make some mistakes. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the program. You can reach me at 508-996-0500 I appreciate the last caller bringing up Ed Pacheco. He maintained his margin of 14 votes in the vacant state representative seat because Chris Markey is going to be elected District Attorney for Bristol County so his representative seat, which is Dartmouth in one or two precincts in Ward 1 of New Bedford is vacant. So it's going to be Ed Pacheco representing the Democrat party and Chester Tam who also won a hard fought primary with former New Bedford City Councilor Henry Bousquet. It'll be Chester Tam and Ed Pacheco running head to head in November. Now what's interesting is that district two years ago did vote majority Republican not in the state rep seat, there was no competition against Representative Markey, our next district attorney. But at the presidential level there certainly was tremendous competition between Kamala Harris and Donald J Trump our president. That district that now Republican Chester Tam is vying to represent a Dartmouth native very smart guy. We'll have him in, I'm in contact with Chester we'll have him in. And Ed Pacheco representing the Democrat party who got tremendous support from the Coalition for Social Justice and that crowd they put him over the top. When you talk 14 votes you know that Ed Pacheco really has to thank Marlene Pollack and the Coalition for Social Justice and Shane Burgo. They did tremendous work James Roy, they're all part of the Coalition for Social Justice. Shane Burgo James Roy, Ed Pacheco that's like one big team. Shane Burgo Ed Pacheco from Dartmouth running for state representative James Roy Marlene Pollack, that's one big team. So Chester Tam has to take them on for state representative. And with a 14 vote margin, you know Ed Pacheco is really thanking the Coalition for Social Justice for getting him over the line right? And what does that mean? Well, it's going to be some hard choices for Ed Pacheco he's never been in this position before But you can look at what's happening in the city council and get an idea of how he'll be voting when he gets to Boston So, you the people of Dartmouth Ward 1, part of Ward 1 going to have to make a real decision. I like Ed Pacheco he called in to the program and we'll get him in again and we'll get Chester in He's been here before as well So, Chester Tam and Ed Pacheco they actually went to high school together in Dartmouth So, it's a real Dartmouth on Dartmouth election with a big assist from the city of New Bedford in the form of the Coalition for Social Justice who's all in for Ed Pacheco and helped him beat another Democrat They did a really effective mailing I would say against Steve Medeiros in the primary the Coalition for Social Justice did a really helpful mailing against Steve Medeiros for Ed Pacheco Ed has to thank them for that 14 point margin and they're going to go with him to Beacon Hill So, they are activists they know what they're doing They are highly trained, highly funded Look at the activity of the current sheriff He got elected with Marlene Pollack and Rafael Pizarro, his help