Politics Unusual: NYC Council Education Chair Eric Dinowitz, NY State Courts Officer Bobby Keane

Welcome to Politics Unusual, I'm Morgan Mackay. From artificial intelligence to influencers, there was a lot of news to cover this week, so we're gonna jump right in. First up, we're sitting down with council member Eric Dinowitz to talk about AI in schools and an upcoming oversight hearing looking at how City Hall communicates with content creators. Then we're speaking with a state court officer who's sharing his journey fighting for disability benefits following the 9-11 terror attacks. And then we're taking a look at Labor Day in New Jersey. But first, Mayor Mom Donnie and the school's chancellor banning the use of AI in the classroom for all elementary and middle school students. This announcement came just about a week before school starts and some teachers are frustrated. But joining us now is our first guest, City Council Member Eric Dinowitz, who also chairs the City Council Education Committee. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So let's pick this apart. Starting first with that one-year ban on AI for elementary and middle school students. What's your take? Well, I think it's the right move. I mean, look, I was a public school special education teacher. You know, we see what hands-on education does. And I also know as a teacher what it means when you don't get clear guidelines or clear policy. And the DOE didn't have a clear policy for AI. So simply saying, let's do a pause in the younger grades. We don't have any evidence that AI helps or supports learning in those younger grades. And we certainly haven't done any training for the teachers to engage with it, is the right move. Since you bring that up, I was doing an interview this week with the Educators for Excellence, and they said that teachers, more than 70% have not been trained here in New York on AI tools, AI skills, and how to teach those in the classroom. What are your conversations like? I mean, a lot of teachers are very concerned because they haven't gotten the guidance. So we held a hearing on AI in June with the DOE, and they had come out with guidelines on the website, and they couldn't answer basic questions on their own website. They couldn't define AI. So I give them credit for being responsive to parents and teachers and students and families, but there are still a lot of questions that are unanswered, even with the announcement that happened earlier this week, and training is one of them. We're having a hearing on screen time. Council Member Krishnan and I are co-chairing a hearing in two weeks, and these are some of the questions that we're gonna be asking. You're saying you can do 30 minutes of screen time or you can do AI in the high schools, but what does the training for the teacher actually look like? What does that screen time actually look like? Because there's so many programs out there right now, and right now they're saying that all those AI chatbots, at least, those are gonna be banned for all the grades, but for high school students, they can participate in a twice-a-year AI literacy program designed to help students think critically about AI, and then the city will also be launching five pilot programs where high schoolers can test out different AI programs with supervision. What are your thoughts on that? Well, here's what's really important. We do not know what that looks like. So teachers need to see these modules before they teach them. We need to have evaluative tools to know whether these AI programs will or will not work. I'm not keen on our students being guinea pigs for big tech companies. The big tech is claiming that there's gonna be educational outcomes from their product, and it doesn't happen. I think we should cancel those contracts, probably shouldn't do business with those companies anymore, but it is a concern that the evaluative tools are not there yet for the AI companies and for our students. How do you know you're doing a good job is a basic educational question. Teachers and students need to understand before throwing tools into a classroom. Yeah, a lot of the criticism I heard is, we don't know, like you said, what those programs are and where those are going to happen either. Have you been able to learn anything more since this came a week before school starts? Right, as if the first day of school was a surprise day, like we don't know when it is. But again, I do have to give the DOE credit for saying that they did wrong with the first AI policy. They listened to parents, families, teachers. Look, we're just asking for transparency, evidence-based approach and accountability. I don't believe without evidence, we should be putting tools in front of kids. Principals, I spoke to some principals this morning, they still have not received guidance on how to apply to be a pilot program or what the modules look like. So again, before we're putting tools, tools that have inherent bias, tools that hallucinate, before putting that in front of our students, we have to evaluate them and we have to make sure the tools are in place beforehand. And I would also add that the foundational skills, things we worry about with AI, like bias, you can teach that without putting a computer in front of a kid, right? You could teach reading comprehension and data analysis before you put a computer, a one-on-one screen in front of a kid. And it's not new. We have curricula for media bias and media literacy. A lot of those same skills apply to the output you get from large language models. So there are tools already available and we need to be leaning on those and making sure the structures are in place before we put AI tools, generative AI tools in front of our children. Now, the mayor's office argues that AI is here to stay. I think we all know that AI is here to stay. And so they're saying, at least when you're in high school, you should start interacting with it a bit, at least in schools. So I guess, what would you say to people who say, it is here to stay, it should be more in the classroom because students need to learn and be ahead of time when they get out into the real world. I mean, iPads are here to stay. You don't need to put an iPad in front of a five-year-old either. Look, the skills you need to successfully use AI don't always involve typing prompts into the AI chatbot. It is really about, very often about the media literacy or the inherent bias and hallucinations in these outputs. It's about the reading comprehension and the data analysis. I don't think it's wrong to say like, yeah, AI is here and we need to be teaching about it. But as you mentioned earlier, teachers need to be trained and get the professional development that has to come from the Department of Education. And we have to be holding these vendors accountable. We spent $11 billion on contracts with companies and they check for privacy. There's a certain privacy protocol they go through, but they don't check for quality. And we have to be saying, if we're spending billions of dollars on contracts, on products for students, we have to make sure it's doing its intended purpose, which is to prepare children for college and for the world beyond school. Switching gears just slightly, you do sit on the City Council Committee on Government Operations. And this week, the committee announced they'd be launching an oversight hearing looking at the Mayor's Office use of social media influencers. And to catch up our viewers, the Mayor's Office has a group chat on Signal with more than 200 social media influencers, where they send them talking points, videos, and even interview opportunities with the mayor. And this was all detailed in a bombshell report issued by Columbia University researchers. But the concern is twofold. The biggest concern I've been hearing from good government watchdog groups is that this use of the Signal app, that encrypted messaging app, it can automatically delete messages. The Mamdani administration says that they are not deleting messages. However, what is some of the concern when you hear about those encrypted messaging apps? Yeah, I mean, first, I think it is good that the mayor or any elected official is doing outreach to influencers, new types of media. You know, it's a great way to engage people. My concern is, as you said, is the secrecy, or not so much the secrecy, but the accountability, right? If messages are being automatically deleted, which they have in reports and that there have been screenshots saying that messages are automatically deleted, that is a concern. And the same thing we're seeking out of the DOE, transparency, we're seeking out of every government agency, whether it's the Department of Education, the Mayor's Office, or any other agency. And so that's the purpose of the City Council, to hold accountable and ensure that there's transparency within our administration, that there isn't any sort of messages being deleted. Making sure everyone's following the rules. Right. Now, when it comes to paid influencers, the city says it's not paying these influencers, but this report says that city agencies, at times, will hire social media content creators to get out their messaging. For example, the Sanitation Department hired some content creators, according to this report, to put out messaging around the city's composting program. Do you think that there is a gap in the law? Should some of these influencers have some sort of disclaimer saying, paid for by the city? Or should maybe the city be more transparent when saying, hey, we're paying these influencers? Yeah, I mean, I certainly think, you know, similarly with AI, the city and government needs to catch up to the new way in which people are consuming media. I think it's good that, you know, you're trying to communicate with New Yorkers in different ways, you know? Not everyone's watching CNN or even Fox 5, but they may be- Don't say that. I would never say that. But they may be, you know, scrolling on their phone, and if that's the way to communicate with people. But again, this transparency in government is critical, and that's why, you know, during the budget time, we ensure that our budget is transparent. Everyone should know where their tax dollars go. Exactly. Transparency is always key. Perfect. Thank you so much, Council Member, for being here. Thanks for having me. Coming up, recovery efforts after 9-11. We're speaking with a court officer fighting for disability benefits next. Welcome back to Politics Unusual. According to the World Trade Center Health Program, more than 9,000 people have died from illnesses linked to the 9-11 terror attacks and its aftermath. In New York, public employees who assisted in the rescue, recovery, and cleanup operations, but later became sick from a 9-11-related illness, they can still receive enhanced disability retirement benefits. But there's a gap in that law our next guest is hoping to close. So joining us now is New York State Court's Officer, Bobby Cain. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it. Thank you. So let's talk about your experience and tell our viewers a little bit about yourself. I've been a New York State Court Officer since 2007. I'm also a union delegate for the New York State Court Officer Association. Back in 2001, I worked for Con Edison. I was 23 years old, and I worked for their steam distribution department. And so when the 9-11 terror attacks happened, where were you? So I was home, and then everybody got called in to work. And on 9-12, a crew of us was sent down to downtown for the infrastructure. The steam mains had to be, all the steam mains had to be shut down, and then we had to go under the pile, under everything to shut the mains and do everything to make it safe. Yes, I mean, there was so many Con Edison workers who were working during that time trying to shut off gas main leaks, making sure buildings had power. So when you were down there, what was it like? It was unimaginable. I mean, I was 23 years old, and I couldn't even really grasp the severity of the situation. I just knew I had a job to do, and we just wanted to help the city out. So we just did it. We didn't think what could happen to us later on. We just did our job. Now, after your time at Con Edison, what was next? So while I was still working for Con Edison, I started getting respiratory illnesses. And it happened so frequently, I exhausted my sick time and left the company. But after two years, I got into the New York State Court Officer Academy and started that career. Wow, and how has that been? It's amazing. It's one of the greatest jobs in the state. I work with amazing people. I get to also help my fellow workers as a delegate whenever they're in trouble. I get to help them. They tell me to raise my family. It's an incredible job. And this is why this issue is so important to you, because you do speak with so many other court officers that you work with. You later became sick, and explain what happened. So I was even sick in the early 2000s. I didn't really understand what was going on. Nobody was thinking in the early 2000s, World Trade Center exposure is causing anything. Later on, people talk, and I wound up registering for the World Trade Center, and they certified a few conditions for me. And it progressively is getting worse every year. And it's the same story for so many people I know that are in the same situation as me. Wow. Now, for public employees and retirees who became disabled as a result of 9-11-related illnesses, they're entitled to 75% disability pension. But that's something you're hoping to access, because while you did get diagnosed with 9-11-related illnesses, or they believe, that even though you were not working as a public employee during that time, you are now. Explain more. So I filed for a World Trade Center notice, and the deadline is next Friday. So if you don't file, then you can never get that notice. So I filed for that notice, and it's basically saying that the presumption, if you go to retire, the presumption is that your illness was from 9-11. They won't even let me get that presumption, because I'm not allowed to even file any kind of disability. According to Nisler's, I was never at ground zero. Wow, and that's just because you were a con-addison worker and not a public employee at that time. Right. And there is legislation right now in the state legislature looking to close that gap and giving court officers like you with 10 years or more, or public employees with 10 years or more that have been working for 10 years or more, give them access to those disability benefits if they had helped out on 9-11. Right, so the bill was introduced in 2024, I think, and it was reintroduced in 2025. I didn't find out about it until I was denied this. And I was like, wait, that doesn't seem right. And we started to investigate a little bit. And when I found this bill, I was shocked. I was like, this is exactly for all of us that are in it. And in the bill itself, it says that there were 60 people who were denied the same thing I did because of the membership issue. So the group, they say right there, it's at least 60 people. So now we're trying to push that bill to say, we were down there, we were good enough to be down there, then we should be good enough now to file for a disability if we become disabled. Exactly, because you're already dealing with issues. Yes. Speaking with court officers, other people that are going through the same thing, what are they telling you? They're frustrated that some of them are real bad and they're going to work and working in those conditions, or they're just burning this at time. They're taking leaves of absences. It's serious. And it's, being a delegate, I've seen what it could do to families. And without having any protection, it's scary for everybody in this position. So what would be your message to the states, to state lawmakers, to the governor? What are you hoping to impress? I want them to close the gap. We're basically the group of people that were just forgotten about. And everybody says never forget on 9-11, but never forget, if it means anything, they shouldn't forget the people that the law forgot. Exactly. Perfect. Well, I can't thank you enough. No problem. And there was one more thing I just definitely want to say that like, this is about the law and like NYSAS and OCA, they're great with people with World Trade Center conditions, to the extent of the law, we fall out of that law. So this is an attack on NYSAS or OCA. This is about a law trying to be passed to help us that fell into the gap. Expand the benefits to make sure that everyone's not forgotten. Yes. Thank you. Coming up, it's almost Labor Day and the Garden State is divided. We're taking the pulse of the people next. New Jersey residents will soon have another way to cut power bills. Governor Mikey Sherrill signed a new law this week, allowing portable solar units. The panel produces up to 1200 watts of power. Landlords and towns cannot ban them, although some rules still apply. Residents must give 14 days notice before installing one. The law takes effect in six months. The debate on whether schools in New Jersey should start before or after Labor Day is heating up. Families and teachers have plenty of opinions on that question. Some saying students need more summertime. Others want an earlier start. We took that question to the people in New Jersey. I say after Labor Day, only because I'm a teacher. So... You're a kid? Yeah, we should enjoy summer. And then after, then after Labor Day, then we'll have some fun. And we have to put after before we leave. Yeah. Okay. I think they should start earlier. Cause they, it gives them a head start to learn better and learn more. I think after Labor Day, it's always been that way here. I know in other states they do it a few weeks earlier, but I think everyone's used to it here. I think that schools should start after Labor Day because let them just enjoy their time, right? Like they should just have fun, it's summer. Next up, we're going to test your knowledge. So stay with us. We're flashing back almost 37 years, September 12th, 1989, a monumental political victory. David Dinkins defeats incumbent mayor Ed Koch in a Democratic primary, unseating Koch who had led the city over three terms and paving the way for Dinkins Finally tonight, we're testing your knowledge. Last week we asked you, who is the only U.S. president born in the state of New Jersey? The answer, Grover Cleveland, born in Caldwell in 1837. Cleveland became the 22nd and 24th president of the United States and remains the only president born in the Garden State. Now to this week's question, which New York governor resigned in 1973 to head the commission on critical choices? Don't Google the answer. If you want to take a shot at it, go ahead, scan that code on your screen. That's going to take you to our website, fox5ny.com, or you can type in your answer, then check back here next week to see if you're right. That does it for this episode of Politics Unusual. If you missed any part of the show or just want to check it out again, we're now on Spotify and any other platform you listen to podcasts on. So be sure to follow us. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Morgan McKay. Have a safe weekend. We'll see you next week.