Judge in Lindsay Clancy trial gives defense 1 hour to appeal before he declares a mistrial

Yet again, first we start with breaking news. A Massachusetts judge declared a mistrial in the case of Lindsay Clancy. The former nurse accused of murdering her children after jurors deadlocked and were unable to reach a verdict. After Judge William Sullivan said he intends to declare a mistrial due to a hung jury, the defense attorney asked for time to file an emergency appeal to the Supreme Judicial Court. The judge then gave that defense attorney an hour to file the appeal. We are now 30 minutes into that hour. Joining us to discuss this and so much more, we welcome white-collar defense attorney and strategic advisor Reem Siddiq to the Fox 5 LiveZone. Reem, it's good to see you and welcome to the show. Nice to see you as well. What a dramatic 24 hours, Guy. It's a very unique trial, wouldn't you say? I gotta tell you, we have a lot to digest here, Reem. Obviously, this is something that's catching us all a lot off guard, if you will. The judge is about to say that this is a mistrial and I want to make sure we break all of this down. However, before doing so, the jury was told there's no other jury that this case would be presented to different than you. He then gave them that instruction, which means to, in essence, correct me if I'm wrong, but follow me here, Reem, go back and deliberate in good faith. Is that correct? Yes, absolutely. I mean, let's back up for a moment. Judge Sullivan was put in a very, very difficult position, right? So you don't want to interfere with the jury and impose duress, but given the extreme hard work that the jury has put in, you want to make sure that they have every opportunity to deliberate and give this the attention that it deserves. So he was drawing a balance between please try once more and also respecting the judicial bounds of interfering with the jury. He was put in a very, very hard position. But what an interesting trial procedurally because I think the question is, what is Reddington going to say that the appellate court should do, right? We've got an emergency stay that's being requested. That effectively halts the procedural aspects of the trial. So we'll have to see what legal error Reddington is going to say that the court committed, right? He's not appealing the verdict. There was no verdict. Exactly. So let's do this, Reem, not to cut you off, but let's do this. Let's walk our viewers as to how we got to this point. And what I mean is that the judge said that he was about to determine that this is a mistrial. Now, before doing that, and correct me if I'm wrong at any point, the defense said, hold up, wait one minute. The defense wants a determination if they agreed on anything else, they being the jury, other than the murder charge. This is around a lesser included offense, correct? This is important yet again, because if we consider manslaughter, we being the jury, you can't try her again on that. This in essence would be a big win for the defense because if the defense attorney can make the jury say she's not guilty on this or that, then she cannot be tried again. Did I get that correct? Well, you have to address the issue first. You have to address the issue of how the jury, the holdout juror, the actual procedure was handled first before you even get there. And that's effectively where the case stands so far. So we'll have to see what he says in his appellate papers. But right now, I think the question is, what is the stay of a potential mistrial going to be before you even get to that question? If this case does result in a mistrial, there are many options the prosecution could pursue, like retrying her and picking another jury, depending on how this shakes out, or they could reach a plea and have negotiations. So it's a little too hard to say right now, we're still learning some tidbits that would shape the answer to that question. The emergency stay for folks like me that are still trying to wrap my head around legal jargon, if you will, can you describe that in detail exactly what that means? Yes, absolutely. A stay is essentially, wait a minute, let's pause the hearings. Let's review this procedural question that would dictate the outcome of the trial, such as potentially the handling of the holdout juror. We won't know exactly what the basis of what Reddington will say in his papers. We'll have to see what he argues. But he could absolutely say, wait a minute, before we decide that this is a mistrial, having this stick to the trial, let's figure out if the judge investigated the alleged juror properly, or could argue that the law wasn't applied correctly. So there's so many arguments that Reddington could raise in these papers before the label of mistrial sticks, before the ruling of mistrial sticks. And so the fact that the judge has given him an hour to file this emergency motion is very, very interesting. So we will see how this shakes out, but it's going to be a very big accusation if he's saying that the issue is that the juror wasn't following the law. Yeah. And so within that emergency stay to which, according to my recollection, we are now 36 minutes into that stay. What exactly is happening? How does one go about to make the next move? In this case, the defense attorney, what is he doing? Well, I can't say exactly what he's doing. He's expressed a lot of confidence in his performance in the trial, and certainly was prepared, in my opinion, for the trial. My suspicion is that he is cranking on the papers right now, having his colleagues look up case authority for his propositions in the brief. I can't imagine what Lindsey Clancy is going through while he files this brief, but he is going back, and he is putting together a motion for a stay of the declaration of a mistrial. Not only are we questioning what the defense attorney is doing, I also wonder and or ponder what the jury is doing now inside of a room, if you will, awaiting to find out their next instructions. But wait a minute, they already decided that, to a certain extent, it's a hung jury. What do you think happens to be going through their minds right now? Well, what an interesting trial from that perspective. How often or not often have we ever seen a four-person express such advocacy? It's a little bit of a marred jury because the foreman came out and said, this juror is allegedly not applying the law correctly. That's a subjective statement. So there's all sorts of issues around the jury itself and the positions that they've taken. Remember, we don't know what the holdout juror is thinking and which way they're leaning. Some minds have expressed that it's going towards a hung jury, but we don't know for sure. We're not in the minds of the juror. But from a juror's standpoint, we don't often see a four-person who's in charge of arranging the logistics of a jury, communication, come out and take such a courageous, powerful advocacy stance like, the 11th juror is a holdout because he's not applying the law correctly. What a unique situation that we're all learning about in the legal industry watching this. It's very powerful. Yeah. And we're learning about it in real time. Hold that thought, Reem. I want to bring in our next guest. We are also joined by Barack Lurie. He's a federal trial attorney with Lurie and Associates. Barack, it's been quite some time. Welcome back to the show. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me back. All right. So we're all just trying to, at least those of us who, yet again, not really understanding the legal jargon here, trying to make sense of this, this entire fiasco that's really unfolding right before our eyes. What's your take with regard to the actions of the defense attorney moving forward and saying, wait a minute, judge, this is not right. I want an emergency stay. Yeah, look, I mean, I'm not surprised at all that he would do this. I do think it's a Hail Mary that the reality is that there's a lot discretion given to the judge to declare a mistrial. And we've all seen it. I mean, this has all been on TV for so long, and it's been days. And at some point, the judge can rightly say, look, I don't think we're ever going to have a decision here, a unanimous verdict here at this point. You can't force these people to do anything more than deliberate and to really try to push it. And at some point, this last juror said, I'm not going to change my mind. And that was made very clear to the judge. And that's why he declared a mistrial. So I don't think that this motion that the defense counsel has pursued will have any legs. I don't blame him for trying, but I'd be very surprised if he was granted. Yeah. Reem, I see you in my peripheral shaking your head. Yes, that you two would perhaps agree with Barack. May I ask why? Absolutely. I mean, in those types of motions, you'd have to prove that there was a significant legal error for that to be successful. That's a really hard hurdle to go over. With that being said, Barack, in your mind, what happens now? And I pose this question to Reem as well. And that is, what is the jury thinking about in your mind? What are they doing as they sit there? And they're probably wondering, hey, I thought this was over. Look, I mean, I, you know, you might as well ask that same question for any juror that sits, that ends up becoming a mistrial. Look, they must feel like, wow, this was a real waste of time. We didn't get to dispense justice. We are part of the justice system. Yes. But there was no fruit that bore from that one way or the other. And they can't get to say that they were participating in it. They can't get to say this is the way that it went down. And here's the blow by blow. So it's very frustrating for them. That's the only thing I can think about. I would be very frustrated. We've all been in juries ourselves. And to understand that all your work has been for not must be just partly frustrating. All right. So we'll do this. And Brock, we'll start with you. And that is the what happens next factor. And what I'm making mention of is if a mistrial, if the verdict is actually a verdict isn't rendered, but the judge decides that it's actually a hung jury in a mistrial is declared, any recourse, can anything happen thereafter? Oh, yes. I think the prosecution is definitely going to pursue another case. This is not double jeopardy or anything like that. Mistrial means that it's a false start, so to speak. And you get to go over again. And the prosecution, I think, will definitely pursue this. They can't let this woman just go off free. They have to have a decision one way or the other, either a murder charge of some kind, manslaughter even, or to otherwise find her not guilty by reason of insanity, in which case she would be in a mental institution. That process has to continue on. So right now she's being held without bail regardless. She doesn't get to go off free. So they will have no choice but to pursue her. There are three dead children after all. There's going to be some sort of accountability, whether in prison or in a mental institution. Raymond, we'll go to you now. With that being said, we know the jury happens to be made up of nine women and three men. The fourth person happens to be a woman. If you really follow this case, to which we did right here on The Live Zone, it's just horrible. The cruelty that was really rendered, if you will, to those children as they lost their lives, it just pulls at the heartstrings. Yet again, I'll revert back to the jury. Nine women and three men. In the fourth person, a woman as well. Does gender at all play a role with regard to perhaps what the ultimate decision will be? That is such a good question. And that's why during the voir dire process, they have those forms that they ask a plethora of questions. I don't think you can take a very polarizing subject and very cruel issue, no doubt, and just say, oh, there are nine women they're going to find not guilty by reason of insanity. I think you have to be fair. However, it was a very difficult case. There were evidence clearly on both sides of the issue. As to the question of what happens now, I completely agree with Barack that they'll retry this case again. There are three dead children after all. They spent way too much time and money on this case. However, logistically, think about how expensive that trial is going to be. They've got to rehire all those 80 experts potentially. All of those witnesses have got to take more time out of their work to testify. You've got to pick another jury and go through that selection process to retry the case, which I agree that they will do if it results in a mistrial is is is a lot. But into that point, though, Barack, and yet again, I'm just trying to wrap my head around all of this, as I am sure a lot of viewers are trying to as well. The judge issued an order to the jury saying, hey, guys, there's no other jury that would be presented different evidence that could do a better job than you. And so with that being said, and yet again, excuse my ignorance, how could this be tried again? Well, look, I mean, if it's going to be, as I recall, this is a 11 to one issue. So one there was one juror that held out. So maybe the hope is that they'll find 12 jurors that will all be unanimous at some point. It's certainly possible. So I think that they can do that. But it's going to be, as my colleague said, very expensive, very time consuming. And what worries me is that, you know, they have to pursue this. Otherwise, she goes off scot free. Right. And that's the bottom line. You can't hold her without actually being charged or convicted of some sort of crime, either at war, defense by way of insanity. So what my my concern is that she'll fall between the cracks at some point. If if you have one mistrial after the other, does the prosecution simply give up and say, OK, lady, you can go off scot free and you don't even have to go to a mental institution. That's my concern here. Yet again, if you're just joining us, it is now 1215 Eastern. Welcome to the Fox five live zone. The judge overseeing the Lindsay Clancy trial in so many words, declaring a mistrial. But hold up. Wait a minute. That's not necessarily the case. He then declaring an emergency stay, if you will. We know that emergency stay happened to last for one hour. We are 15 minutes away from that hour being over. Last question, guys. And that is what's happening now. And what I mean by that is what happens within that hour? Paperwork filed. A judge then says this, says that. What's happening within this last 15 minutes as we wait to see what the next step will be? And I don't want to take that on. Let's find out. I cannot imagine what's happening in Lindsay Clancy's mind. But Reddington is certainly giving it his all. You know, they asked him again, what happens if the prosecution retries this case? And he said, bring it. I have no doubt that he is giving it everything he can in those papers to prove why there is some reason why mistrial should not stick. So he is there is probably smoke coming off of his keyboard right now as he tries to meet this hour deadline. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. The issue here is that it's a Hail Mary, like we said before, both of us. But the reality is he can he can try to argue that this judge, it's really all based upon what the judge's declaration is that he declared a mistrial. And the only argument that could possibly say is, look, this must be something that is happening here that the juror must be booted off or that the judge must force this case to continue its deliberations. That's what I think that they're concerned about. So I don't think that this is going to be granted, however, as we talked about. I also just wanted to add, Guy, one other thing, as I sort of alluded to the emotional toll beyond the expenditures of a new trial. Could you imagine the emotional toll that would be placed on Lindsay Clancy having to sit through an entire new trial? That might be a factor, too, in these papers. I'm not sure. And only time will tell. In this case, we should know what happens next within the next 13 minutes. Yet again, we've been joined by Barack Leary and Reem Siddique, kind enough to join us right here on the live zone. I truly appreciate your expertise. Thank you. God bless. Nice to be with you. All right, folks, we'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.