Mass. elected officials are facing a string of scandals. How that's shaping our politics

This is Up Next. I'm Tisiana Dearing. It's been an ugly couple of months for elected leaders in Massachusetts. State Representative Francisco Paulino of Methuen got hit yesterday with federal fraud charges similar to charges against Lawrence Mayor Brian DiPena, who was arrested earlier this month. Meanwhile, Bristol County Sheriff Stephen Tompkins is on trial for allegedly extorting a cannabis business, and the list goes on. Joining us to talk about what these kinds of scandals do to our communities and our politics, Boston Globe columnist Adrian Walker and former Boston City Councilor Josh Zakim. Good morning to both of you. Good morning. Adrian, this has been a steady drumbeat of news over the last several months. Most recently, we just mentioned Francisco Paulino of Methuen. He's accused of defrauding pandemic relief programs. When you see these stories pop up, what do you feel in your gut? What I feel in my gut is, first of all, that, first of all, they're horrible. They're scandals. But also, you know, they just really erode public confidence in government, especially having so many of them in rapid succession in this way. You know, you mentioned Suffolk County Sheriff Stephen Tompkins is on trial now. Now there are these cases in Lawrence and Methuen. It's all really bad. So Josh, I'll turn to you. Has any one story of late been particularly troubling to you? No, I think it's just the somewhat constant stream these last few months, as you mentioned. It's disappointing. You know, people are already very skeptical of government at all levels. And this certainly doesn't help. So let's stay with you for a second, Josh. This constant stream, I mean, you've been in politics, around politics for a while. Is there something sort of a new pattern or a bump going on? We do have some history here. You know, it's hard to say, you know, this is all anecdotal at this point. But it does seem like a lot. We have a 24 hour news cycle, a hyper partisan environment. And when you see the dysfunction in Washington, you know, I'm always been a big proponent that local government is where you can get things done. You're closest to the people and to have these scandals that erode that confidence is really troubling. Adrian Walker of the Boston Globe, I'll come back to you. We've had a little bit of trouble with your sound, but let's give this a shot here. Let's look at the history. There is no shortage of corruption and scandal in the state's history. I'm thinking James Michael Curley, who served at various times as Boston's mayor, governor of Massachusetts, Massachusetts congressman, and also served time in federal prison in the early 1900s for taking bribes. There's the prosecutions of two House speakers 15 and 20 years ago. What do we know from history about how scandal affects politics in Massachusetts, in Boston? What we know about it is that it often provokes sort of a public backlash, sort of a feeling of let's turn the bums out. Curley, you know, you mentioned Curley, he came out of federal prison, but he lost the next election and in fact, never won another election. And I think that's sort of the way it tends to go in terms of these corruption cases. Josh, Adrian said earlier, you know, it makes, it erodes trust, right? I think about the cynicism. At the same time, both here and elsewhere, we have also seen times when a community of voters or neighbors will rally behind someone who's either been convicted or charged with, you know, criminal actions as a sense of sort of solidarity. And I wonder if you've observed that and how you see that dynamic, what you think that means. Yeah, I think a lot of that's dependent on the individual, you know, if they've cultivated those close relationships, if their constituents feel that they've been representing them. And in many ways, it reflects also the cynicism of government right now. You know, the clannishness, the cliques, the conspiracy theories in many cases, if someone you know, and that you said to hide you on your way to the grocery store or the supermarket, and you felt they were fighting for your community, and then is charged with, in some cases, things that are a little technical, you know, pandemic, COVID era relief is absolutely a crime. But it's not the easiest thing, I think, for folks to understand, there may be an inclination to rally around that individual and say, you know, they represent me against the big bad federal government. I don't think that's the right decision. I don't think that's good for government. But it's understandable these days. I'm thinking of, oh, Adrian, just jump in. Yeah, you know, one example I recall, and Josh, I don't know if you served with Chuck Turner, but you know, when City Councilor Chuck Turner was charged with taking bribes, there was a lot of outpouring of community support, because people just simply didn't feel like it's weird with their image of him, and that he was sort of wrongly prosecuted, although ultimately was convicted. So let's stay with that point for a second, Adrian. You know, you mentioned Chuck Turner, there's Diane Wilkerson, there's Tanya Fernandez-Anderson, that's at the Boston City Council level. A question to Josh, and then back to you, Adrian, Josh, how do you want people to care about accusations, which are different, by the way, than convictions, so accusations and or convictions? Listen, everyone is innocent until proven guilty in this country. And that's something we do often forget. But what's really important is that people believe in their government. So while someone may not be convicted, if they're credibly charged, they have to really think long and hard what it means to stay in office during a trial, during an investigation. And only the individual, you know, maybe their family, you know, should make that decision. But it does hurt the credibility of government to see your elected official, whether it's a state representative, a city councilor, whomever, you know, on trial, or locked up in a federal courthouse. It's really troubling. And I think we're at a point right now in this country where we need to restore confidence in government and elected officials and civil service and civic life. And I don't know what the right answer is to that. So let's talk about that faith in government and the actions of government. Adrian, as an observer, a columnist who observes our political and our legal ecosystem, many of these prosecutions of public officials have come at the hands of Leah Foley, who is the Trump administration's pick for U.S. attorney for the state, took over last year. Does this spike in charges against elected leaders reflect her particular style or priorities, or is that a separate consideration? I think it certainly appears to reflect a shift in priorities on behalf of the U.S. attorney's office. It's interesting, you know, when I cover state government and city government, a lot of these cases were brought by the state attorney general's office. It's kind of moved over to the U.S. attorney's office. And you know, we could do a whole separate show about what outrages this Justice Department and what doesn't seem to. But clearly, there seems to be a focus right now on municipal corruption. I think Adrian makes a good point on that. You can't take the national politics out of this. That certainly doesn't excuse any behavior. But, you know, prosecutors have broad discretion, whether it's at the local, state or federal level, what they choose to focus on. And I think that lends itself to that cynicism and maybe to folks saying, oh, you know, this is my rep. This is my mayor. I'm going to stand with them, you know, against the big bad federal government. So let's come back to the cynicism again, and Adrian, I'll go back to you. We mentioned Curley earlier. I'm thinking now about Rachel Rollins, not a criminal situation, but somebody who had to resign from office over a federal investigation and ethics accusations and is now running to be Suffolk County District Attorney again, a role she's held before. Is second chances and the seeking of second chances a way to combat cynicism, Adrian? Is it a does it underscore cynicism? Your thoughts? I think it's sort of underscore cynicism. I think it contributes to a public belief that public officials are entitled and that no matter what happens to them, they deserve to have a second chance. And many of these second chances, you know, don't pan out at the ballot box. And I think Rollins is facing an uphill battle as well. And just to you, we've got 20 seconds. Do you believe in second chances? I certainly believe in second chances, but I don't believe you're entitled to a second chance to represent, you know, your neighbors, your constituents. Josh Zakim is a former Boston City councilor, currently chair of the Massachusetts State Athletic Commission. Adrian Walker is a columnist for The Boston Globe. I want to thank both of you for joining us this morning. Thanks for having me.