Ricky Gervais on the 'myth' of cancel culture

It's fake online rage. I've tried to infuse this classic British sitcom into adult animation about cats. We're sort of a slave to the media now. It's like only fools and horses, till death do us part, mixed with, mixed with cats. Ricky Gervais, pleasure to see you. Pleasure to be here. It's very exciting. So just when everyone thinks that they kind of know what to expect from you, then you come out with an animated sitcom about some foul-mouthed cats. Yeah. Which is not what I was expecting. Is this something that's been, because I understand this is like a COVID baby, right? It was. That's the first, that was the first idea during lockdown. My, uh, my tour Supernature had been postponed. Um, uh, recording series three of Afterlife had been postponed. I thought, oh, I know what they can't stop. They can't stop animation. I could record it on Zoom and then I could, I drew a sketch of me as, uh, as Gus, my character. And that's when it all started. And of course, four years later, it gets commissioned. Um, so that was the seed of the idea. And some people say, why, why cats and not dogs? Um, because, uh, cats don't, don't care about humanity as much as dogs. I just love the, I love the independence. I love that cats, they're like one foot tall, but they think they're lions. I just love cats. I've always been fascinated with cats. You know, cats are the only animal that domesticated themselves. They just wandered into humanity about 10,000 years ago and went, feed me, just feed me. Um, they're amazing animals. Um, and so, uh, I suppose I've sort of loved cats and studied cats all my life, but it is a sitcom as well. Um, you know, it, it, every little bit of it is slightly different to what I usually do, but it's, it's definitely, it's definitely in my wheelhouse. It's, it is an animated sitcom. It just, it just happens to be cats instead of, you know, middle-aged fat blokes. Um, but they're, they play a role as well. I've tried to infuse this classic British sitcom into adult animation about cats. So it's, it's like only fools and horses till death is due part, um, mixed with, mixed with cats. And I like you've, you've compared Gus to Del Boy a little bit as well, didn't you? Yeah. He's, he's, he's a, he's a classic sort of, uh, British sitcom lead. You know, he's a, uh, he, he thinks he's cooler than he is. He thinks he's smarter than he is. He's mouthy. He's, he's the self sort of appointed leader of the gang. Um, there's a bit of, there's a bit of, um, you know, class, uh, sort of conflict in there because, uh, one of their best mates who comes around every day that doesn't live with them is a pet, a posh middle-class pet. That's Tom Basden, right? Played by Tom Basden. And it might be my single favourite thing about the series as, uh, uh, us ganging up on him because he knows too much, you know, he's, he's, he's smart. He knows about everything and we just don't believe him. We just think he's an idiot because all these things can't be true. He tells us about like science and sociology and all these, we just think he's an idiot. You take the piss out of him for being neutered as well. Yes. That's the other thing. Yeah. He, uh, he's, uh, yeah, we put everything into one cat and, uh, yeah, Tom Basden's great. And they all are. And as, as you know, I've worked with them all before and I cast it before I wrote it. There's a great tradition, especially in America, I'd say they do it brilliantly. Those sort of very irreverent South Park, those very irreverent animations. But you said this is a very quintessentially British sitcom. So what makes it British particularly? I just think the way they are, the attitude that sort of, it won't happen to you. Don't worry about it, you know? Uh, but it's also got that, that, that spirit. It's also got that spirit of the blitz that they know that at the bottom of the pile, they know they're not going to live very long and they know bad things happen every day, but they go, it's all right though. You know, at least we're cats, you know, they've got that, they've still got that fighting spirit that I like. And, um, uh, but, uh, but the themes are universal in the office. Everyone thought that is so quintessentially British. There's things set in slough, but you know, um, but, uh, the, the themes are universal, you know, it's getting on, it's, you know, living your best life. Um, so, uh, I think it's uplifting as well. I think if you watch the whole series, I think you'll feel great. I think it's a really lovely, it's got that Disney Pixar, uh, journey to it as well. Nice bite-sized episodes as well, which I enjoyed. I, I want people to watch it all at once. Do you think comedy is getting harder because life is just so generally weird at the moment? Or do you think, or do you think, do you think it's getting harder because people sort of know what to expect and there's, everyone is a bit more sort of jaded, I suppose? Well, I, I think, I, I think, uh, you know, it's cyclic. We've been through these things. I've been through three of these phases in, in my lifetime, and they probably existed long before me and they'll exist long after where people say, oh, whatever you call it, whether you call it political correctness or wokeness or, you know, cancel culture, whatever you call it, it happens every 10, 15 years. You know, the only thing that changes is who's the, who's the dominant mob this time? Who is the mob this time? Who have we got to watch what we say? Who's going to try and stir up trouble? But I, I think, um, again, people are so over it. If you ignore it, it doesn't exist. You know, I think people say, oh, so-and-so's cancelled. And I say, yeah, I was cancelled. Well, you are because you said you are. If someone says to me, you're cancelled, I go, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. No, I'm still selling out arenas. I'm still, I'm not cancelled. There's this myth that go around that, I go, I'm going, oh, I want to get cancelled or I've been cancelled. I haven't. I never said that because I never have been. I've never been cancelled. I hope I never will. The, the game is to say what you want and not get cancelled. That's what I want to try and do for the rest of my life. You know, ignore it or, or, or, you know, meet it head on. But, but don't bow to it. Don't change, don't change anything you do because some sort of authoritarian somewhere, somewhere says that it's wrong. It's not wrong. It's not wrong. You don't like it. That's all that means. You don't like it. Don't watch it. You're, despite your somewhat provocative reputation at times though, the last few things I've seen you do have been beautiful meditations on life and love and emotional, and this was emotional as well. Do you think your public reputation is a bit out of date sometimes? Yeah, because I think people believe the persona, you know, they see at the Golden Globes or stand up and, and that is, that is a character. That's a persona. You know, I, I'm not that brash. I'm not that confident. I'm not, you know, it's, it's a, it's an act to sell the joke and it's a joke. Those things aren't real. I don't really believe those things. You know, it's, it's, um, I do, uh, I do like a, a live, um, uh, YouTube chat every Sunday. Uh, and, uh, someone asked, um, if you were to, uh, be like your standup persona for a day, how long do you think it would be before you get punched in the face? And it would be immediate. It would be immediate because, you know, you talk about things you, you wouldn't go up in public and start talking about these provocative things because you're setting up a joke. I deal with taboo subjects because I want to take the audience to a place they haven't been before. If I just went out there and said, what's right, that'd be great, but it wouldn't be funny. You know what I mean? If I went out there and just lectured them about what's nice and what's right and what a great day I've had, brilliant, but don't charge for it. You've got to go somewhere. You've got to, you've, you've got to play with their emotions and intellect and you've got to do something. And, um, uh, that's what a joke is. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's not real. It's, it's so those people can, um, laugh at the wrong thing. You're saying the wrong thing so they can laugh at the wrong thing. They don't think it's right. Those people that go out there, they go, oh, I feel I'm a bad person because I laughed at something that's wrong. No, that's what it's for. It's, it's a release. You know, it's, um, we need that. We need to, we need to say the wrong thing, but we need to know it's the wrong thing. Do you think we're getting better at learning now? You said it's cyclical. Yeah, well, I think we got worse and now we're coming out of it. I think, you know, I think the next generation are going, yeah, they're jokes. Don't worry about it. Um, uh, you know, but that, that's always going to happen. And also I think we're, um, we're sort of a slave to the, the media now with everyone's got, um, everyone's on social media. And that was always the storm in the teacup. If you, if you looked at social media for an hour, you'd think we were a war with everyone. And then you go into the real world and you have a walk and everyone's still normal. Most of those things don't reach the, you know, it's, it's fake online rage. All those people, all those trolls, they don't do that in real life. You know, they're not that, you know, that it's not real. It's fake. It's all fake. Turn your phone off. Go for a walk. That's incredibly good advice. And yeah, I should definitely take that. Um, if someone watches Alley Cats and they've never seen somehow, they've never seen anything else you've done. What do you think they would get from you? That maybe someone that comes to it with preconceptions wouldn't get? I think they'd, um, they'd go on a journey. I think they think it was one thing and then end up thinking it's, um, something else. I think you get to know the cats. I think you, uh, get to realise what they really like. And that, that takes, that takes a while. Um, but it's a, it's sort of like a, a movie really. You know, it's got a beginning, middle and end. Um, and, uh, I think you get to know the cats more and you get to love the cats. And then you just want to watch those cats do anything they want.