Brazil's Next President? Flávio Bolsonaro on Why Brazil Matters to America's Future | Real Talk

Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, I can't help but sit here and wonder whether the accusations against your father could possibly hurt you if you're running for president. The legacy that the current president is leaving to the Brazilian people is misery, a lack of education, and the active support of criminality. How would you handle your country? That is dealing with narco-terrorism. I am tired of seeing my country being handed over into the hands of criminals. I intend to toughen the law, build prisons, and keep these criminals in prison longer. President Trump can be sure that starting from the year 2027, Brazil will have a president who is an ally of the United States. Senator Flavio Bolsonaro, it is great to have you here. Welcome to the United States. It's a great honor for me to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. If you don't mind, I will speak in Portuguese, because it will be more interesting for our audience. No problem. Well, I intend on asking you some tough questions, so I'd like to make sure that language is no barrier to the honesty that we're going to have. Let's go. Okay. You might find this really interesting, but our largest audience outside of the United States are PragerU viewers in Brazil. Do you find that surprising? No, it is no surprise to me, because you produce very high-quality content. I myself watch some of your material. My brother Eduardo Bolsonaro learns a lot by watching it. My friend Paulo Figueiredo has also given interviews and recorded videos here that reach millions of Brazilians. And once again, I think it would be very good to have PragerU in Brazil. I don't know if that would be possible now because of the issues surrounding censorship, but you can be sure that starting in 2027, with Flavio Bolsonaro in the presidency, it will be a great honor to have you in Brazil as well. Yeah, well, they write us all the time and tell us how much they love the taste of freedom that we give them. So I look forward to visiting you in Brazil one day, and God willing, we will go to Carnival together. Not just for Carnival, but also exploring our natural beauties. There are truly fantastic places in Brazil, like Angra dos Reis, Lençois Maranenses, the Amazon, the Pantanal, and the Gocha Mountains. There are many beautiful things to see in Brazil, and I am certain that the American people will always be very welcome in our land. Looking forward. So we're sitting here with the possibility of you becoming the future president of Brazil. Well, we are facing many difficulties in Brazil today. It is a moment of intense political persecution, and there is great chaos in public security. There is a major problem in our education for children. And as a result of what unfortunately happened to former president Jair Bolsonaro, I was nominated to run for the presidency of the republic, to continue his legacy, his work, and to rescue my country from the hands of the left, the far left. Obviously, you have had a public life. You've had an experience both as a father, you were an attorney, but probably most importantly, a public figure, given that your father was a former president. What do you think, in your career and your experience, make you the best possible president for your country? I started in politics very early, at 21 years old, and today I am a senator of the republic. So I've been in Brazilian politics for 23 years. I worked alongside president Bolsonaro during his four years of government, participating in the most important decisions. I'm a lawyer, I'm a businessman, I'm married, I'm a father of two daughters, someone who understands the real problems of Brazil. Therefore, I feel very capable and well qualified to make sure Brazil returns to the path of prosperity. Because of the way that we are going today, the legacy that the current president is leaving to the Brazilian people is misery, a lack of education, and the active support of criminality. So we've reached an unsustainable point here in Brazil, and we are becoming a major international pariah, because of the signals from our current president, to countries that are governed by dictators, who do not respect human rights, and people who, unfortunately, are not committed to countries that do not share our Judeo-Christian values in our Western society. It's interesting, we both mentioned your background in law, your legal background, and I can't help but sit here and wonder whether the accusations against your father, all the legal accusations against your father, could possibly hurt you if you're running for president. President Bolsonaro, he started to be persecuted right from the very first day of his term. He was accused of completely absurd things, he committed no crime at all, but the fact that Brazilian law, it gives the federal senate the authority to review impeachment requests against justices of the supreme federal court, who are exactly some of the members of this highest court in Brazil, who are persecuting president Bolsonaro. I understand that, well, up until this moment, I haven't been a victim myself, as my brother Eduardo Bolsonaro has been, who is outside Brazil today, but I think we're going to speak a little more about that here on this program, but he cannot return to Brazil because he is a politically persecuted individual. I believe that up until this point, they haven't managed to produce anything against me, given that it has almost become a routine practice to fabricate charges, to invent crimes in an artificial way, especially against center-right politicians in my country. Since we are on the eve of the elections, which will be held this October, I truly believe there is nothing more they can possibly do against me. Therefore, speaking on behalf of the Brazilian right-wing movement, my candidacy has been officially put forward and, thank God, it's doing very well in all the polls. Is the name Bolsonaro still popular in Brazil? Very popular. Proof of this is that Flavio Bolsonaro is currently leading in many polls, or even tied in some polls with the current president of the republic. President Bolsonaro has been censored for some months, prohibited from using social media with great difficulty communicating with the public, even so, if he were the candidate today, he would be elected president of the republic in Brazil because of his popularity and because of the comparisons that arise. President Bolsonaro's government was in fact placing Brazil on the path of prosperity, on the path of fighting criminals, on a path of economic balance, of reducing unemployment. However, unfortunately, the pandemic in the middle of his term and the political persecution that he suffered, including by some sectors of the press, led him to the situation we see today. And President Bolsonaro's name is so popular that he was able to nominate his own son, not merely because he is his son, but because I am qualified and prepared to run for the presidency of the country. And today we are very well positioned in the polls and the population is anxiously waiting for October to arrive so that we can retire the current president of the republic. So, with your permission, I'd like to bring up the accusations against your father and your family. And believe me, I've done a lot of research to make sure that we can actually talk about the things that your family is accused of, because I think it's very, very serious. And one of them is so-called insurrection on January 8, 23, which is interesting timing, but also an accusation of hydroxychloroquine being recommended by your father during the COVID days. I don't know why that continues to be a claim against him, but it is. Disturbing a whale, which maybe you can talk to me a little bit about that. Mind-boggling, mind-boggling. Okay, so jet skiing and disturbing a whale. The deforestation of the Amazons. I know that there is a claim that he is anti-environmentalism. Maybe that is tied to the jet ski and the whale. We can keep going into that. Something about selling gifts, including a which he received from the Saudis. The accusation is not that he took the gift. The accusation is that he sold the watch and some other items maybe. And also meeting with other ambassadors from across the world while being a sitting president, which I don't know which president has not met with ambassadors from around the world. But I want you to really be honest, because this is our chance to discuss the accusations. They're serious in that he is being accused and in jail right now for 27 years. Technically on house arrest right now, I understand. So I do think that while some of these things really sound silly to me, and maybe that's just because I'm here sitting in the United States, they seem a little silly, but they're serious because the consequences are massive. Well, I would really like to be like some of the people who are watching us right now, perhaps laughing at these truly absurd and completely unfounded accusations against President Bolsonaro. But unfortunately, this is what a significant portion of the judiciary in Brazil has become, where ever since his very first day in office on January the 1st of 2019, President Bolsonaro suffered a series of interferences during his government and all these things that happened, such as riding a jet ski close to a hotel, or receiving a gift classified as Bolsonaro's personal property, therefore he had the legal right to sell it or keep it, but he is being accused over that, which is also not a crime. He is being accused of so many absurd things, with the sole objective of removing him from the presidential race and taking him out of politics, because some judges believe they have the right to decide for the population who can or cannot be the President of the Republic. This is the sad reality that we are living in Brazil today, a major context of lawfare. And unfortunately my father, who is in prison today, as you said, is accused of an attempted coup d'état when he was in the United States. In Brazil, on January 8th, there was a major riot in the Praça dos Três Poderes, January 8th, it was something very similar to what happened here in the United States on January 6th, 2021. But President Bolsonaro was out of the country, he was in Florida, in fact he was in Orlando. He was a president who appointed the army, navy and air force commanders, nominated by President Lula, even while still in the presidential seat. He made a calm and peaceful transition to the next government. He did several live broadcasts and posted videos on his social media, asking that no one promoted chaos in the country, saying that the methods of the right could not be equated with the methods of the left. Therefore he did not want anyone to vandalize public or private property. He said this very clearly. But despite that, a great farce was set up against President Bolsonaro. And the trial that led him to the situation he is in today, imprisoned in a common cell, is because he was judged by his own enemies. It is very important that the American people become aware of what Bolsonaro is being accused of, and the manner in which he was judged, because he is not in prison for corruption, he is not in prison for having killed anyone, he is not in prison for having done anything illegal, he is being persecuted for upholding conservative principles and confronting a Brazilian system that today is facing accusations of corruption even within Brazil itself. So Bolsonaro was judged by five ministers, I will tell you only three ministers so that everyone knows who the judges were. A minister named Alexandre de Moraes, who is his declared public enemy, who for a long time has been persecuting President Bolsonaro and the Brazilian right, with an inquiry called the Fake News Inquiry, which has been open for seven years, and simply Minister Alexandre de Moraes, he includes whoever he wants, he chooses his targets, he chooses who the investigators are, many times he is the very supposed victim and the judge himself. This is the very minister who judged President Bolsonaro, another minister named Flavio Dino, who until just a few months ago was President Lula's Minister of Justice, a declared public enemy of Bolsonaro, who has already stated that Bolsonaro is the very devil on earth. The other minister who judged Bolsonaro, named Cristiano Zanin, just a few months ago, was Lula's personal lawyer. So these are the very people who judged President Bolsonaro, therefore everyone already knew what the final outcome of this trial would be, long before the process even began. So President Bolsonaro is currently the target of a great injustice, which is why I am running for President of the Republic to carry on the conservative right-wing principles of the country, so that the legacy left for the nation, which is the legacy the current president wants to leave, one of misery, does not prevail, and from 2027 onwards you can be certain that Brazil will change its course and we will forge a path of prosperity to ensure people no longer have to rely on any politician just to put food on their own tables, as is currently the case, with a massive number of individuals who depend on some form of government assistance simply to eat. We will embrace those who need it but we will provide an alternative so they can stand on their own two feet and bring dignity to their families. It is so amazing to understand what happened on January 8th, where your father is accused for insurrection, and sit here as an American and contemplate what was done to President Trump on January 6th, and the follow-up of what was done to your brother, Eduardo, and all these accusations. It is hard to not believe that there is some world order that is trying to use the exact same playbook of legacy media, of coercion, of lawfare, even it's the same story, right? It's the same story of what we saw here in the United States of America with accusing our President Trump of insurrection, taking that insane playbook and accusing Bolsonaro. Do you think that there are nefarious powers outside of Brazil, nefarious powers outside of the United States, who are trying to push against the right because of a global agenda? Yes, I certainly believe so because it's not only in the United States and Brazil that this has been occurring. Not coincidentally, it's only right-wing politicians who are suffering the process of political persecution at the hands of the judiciary in their respective nations. That's why I think there's even a great deal of identification between President Trump and President Bolsonaro. Both were presidents during the pandemic. Both suffered persecution from the judicial branch. Both suffered attempts on their lives. President Bolsonaro with a stabbing in the year of 2018 to his stomach. President Trump with a grazing shot to his ear, you know, just last year. So there's this identification and you can see that in Venezuela where we certainly cannot say there's a democracy. It is a dictatorship. The same thing is happening. Who are the ones being imprisoned? It's those individuals who dare to challenge the established system. However, just like with any dictatorship, it doesn't simply occur overnight. The freedom of the people is gradually, slowly being taken away from them. And this is the process that Brazil has been suffering through until now, with freedom slowly being taken away, all under a false justification of protecting democracy. But in reality, it's precisely those very people who are destroying democracy, using this defense of democracy as an excuse, and putting people behind bars and taking away the possibility of them running for a position like President of the Republic, with a stroke of a pen, taking overriding the will of the people, which should be sovereign. So yes, I believe it's a global movement. Yes, it's no coincidence this has happened in European countries and Central America. But on the other hand, I see good news, a light at the end of the tunnel that, thank God, all these authoritarian left-wing regimes, without exception, are falling worldwide. And you can be absolutely sure that in Brazil, the same thing will happen. From 2027 onwards, we will reclaim democracy in our nation. Brazil has an amazing amount of natural resources. Obviously, the whole world knows this. How much do you think this global agenda has to do with energy? Well, Brazil has been blessed by God with abundant natural resources, and we have practically all forms of energy that can help sustain the world. In Brazil, a large part of the energy produced in our country is clean energy. Today, it includes energy that comes from hydroelectric plants, energy that comes from sunlight, from the winds, and even nuclear energy, as well as other energy sources that still exist in great abundance in the world, which we need to explore more and more, including energy coming from oil. Therefore, Brazil sets an example for the world in the production of clean energy and can be one of the main countries in the world to guarantee that this energy reaches other continents, including the United States and Europe, which I know is a major challenge that many face. So Brazil is at the forefront and can contribute greatly to the world in the energy agenda. Senator Bolsonaro, we talked about energy. We can't talk about energy without thinking about China. We all know that China is very focused on needing energy resources. We've seen what recently happened in Venezuela. Can you talk about the relationship between your country and China and specifically the relationship that has evolved over the last few years under President Lula? I am certain that not only China, but several other countries in the world try to impose restrictions, especially environmental ones, to make it more difficult for Brazil to explore energy, particularly energy coming from oil. But in this year's elections, we will propose that Brazil be able to free itself from these environmental constraints so that we can explore our oil in a sustainable way, so we can transform all of this wealth that is in the subsoil, that is at the bottom of the sea, into wealth for the Brazilian people. We will no longer accept, for example, that environmental designations are made with the sole objective of delaying Brazil's development, and today we have the technology to explore all of this in a responsible way, with compensation in areas that may, for example, be deforested. Brazil sets an example in the breaking records in forest fires. Therefore, I believe this is a subject that we will confront head-on in these elections and I will always place the interest of the Brazilian people first, with no submission to China as the current President is doing for ideological reasons. The current President of the Republic in Brazil has made unacceptable agreements, practically giving as a gift to China a large portion of these natural riches that God gave us, such as rare earth elements or rare minerals, in which China is the country that possesses these mineral resources in the greatest abundance in the world. Brazil is in second place. President Bolsonaro began to give attention to this issue, but the current President has never cared about it, and he is making agreements, signing agreements, preferably for ideological reasons with China, when in fact Brazil should prioritize this type of strategic negotiation with countries that have not only geographic proximity, but also alignment in the principles and values that govern their nations. Do you think people in Brazil are concerned about a growing relationship with China? Are they aware of it? I believe that a large part of the Brazilian population is not very attentive to this direction that Lula is taking, not only toward China, but also toward Iran, and as he did with Venezuela, President Lula does not place the interests of the Brazilian people first. We have already lost refineries to Bolivia, and we have already lost refineries to Venezuela. We lost part of the water resources and of a hydroelectric plant in Brazil called Itaipu, to Paraguay, without any compensation for the Brazilian people. Therefore, the path that the current President of the Republic is taking is very concerning. And furthermore, unfortunately, a large part of the population is not very attentive to this, but they feel it in their pockets, because this ends up making energy in Brazil much more expensive. Energy in Brazil is much more costly as a result of this bad policy. And then especially the poorest feel this the most, without having much perception that much of the blame lies with those who are currently governing the country. Do you think Brazilians are concerned about the voting machines that you use there? I mean, there's no paper trail, right, of the voting records. One of the reasons why your family got in trouble was because you were speaking about it. And correct me if I'm wrong, but where were the machines made? Weren't they made in China, who was kind of happy with your current situation there? It is always an issue. What concerns us greatly is that speaking about these voting machines nowadays in Brazil has practically become a crime. It is not defined as a crime in our legislation, but this questioning is being used to criminalize those who raise concerns, precisely to persecute center-right politicians. More than 30% of the Brazilian population does not trust the electronic voting machines. We are talking about more than 50 million Brazilians who say they do not trust them. President Bolsonaro and we have always defended greater security and more transparency, not only for the electronic voting machines, but for the entire electoral process in Brazil. Brazil is the only country in the world that uses a 100% electronic and digital system. Why do the nations that have the most technological capacity, in research, development and intelligence, why none of them use a 100% electronic system? Because there are vulnerabilities. What we have always defended is that we should be able to identify these vulnerabilities in order to make the electoral process in Brazil safer and more transparent. Look at what happened recently in Venezuela. It was only possible to confirm fraud in the presidential elections in Venezuela from the moment there was a paper receipt alongside the electronic voting. And that way it was possible to recount the votes. In Brazil, it is impossible to recount the votes. Therefore, as long as we do not solve this, there will always be a large portion of the population that will distrust the result. What were the Brazilians' reaction to not allowing Elon Musk to open X in Brazil? Don't they want to receive the opportunity of free press and be able to express themselves? In fact, this was yet another decision by Justice Alexandra de Moraes, who took X offline in the middle of the Brazilian elections because they know that we on the right have greater influence on the internet. Polls in Brazil show that more than 60% of Brazilian voters who vote for Lula get their information from the mainstream media. And on the other hand, more than 60% of right-wing voters get their information from social media. Therefore, it was a decision that caused a major imbalance in the electoral dispute, a decision that favored candidate Lula at the time and worked against President Bolsonaro. And the population became very outraged by this. This was just one of several reasons that led the Brazilian population, after the announcement of the 2022 election results, to take to the streets to protest because it became very clear to everyone that there had been an imbalance in the presidential race and that it was not a fair game. What is so amazing about all of it is that they did not punish Elon Musk when they wouldn't let him open X. They punished the Brazilian people by then threatening to attack Starlink, get more internet offerings to Brazilians. This is the they're literally punishing the Brazilian people. Social media platforms are a great public square for debate. And what happened in Brazil was simply that all the virtual public squares were closed so that there would be no debate. So it was not a punishment against Elon Musk, it was a punishment against the Brazilian people. But this same justice who is causing so much damage to Brazilian democracy placed Elon Musk under investigation in this inquiry we already mentioned called the Fake News Inquiry, which has been undergoing for more than seven years. He made Elon Musk a target of investigation because he was refusing to comply with illegal and secret orders from Minister Alexandre de Moraes. And not only that, he takes X offline to try to punish Elon Musk, but in doing so he punishes the Brazilian people, but he also blocks other companies in which Elon Musk has some participation, such as Starlink, in order to try to harm him financially. That was the reason why President Trump later used an American law called the Magnitsky Act to impose sanctions on Justice Alexandre de Moraes precisely for attacking and violating the human rights of American citizens and companies. So this is the real situation Brazil finds itself in today. If Justice Alexandre de Moraes of the Brazilian Supreme Court were consistent, he would have had to place not only Elon Musk under investigation, but also President Donald Trump himself in this process in Brazil. Obviously he did not do that. He directs the investigations and chooses the targets he wants, regardless of whether the person committed any crime, and certainly Elon Musk committed no crime at all, he merely respected American law and the American Constitution, which recognizes freedom of expression as a sacred right. In Brazil this has become a dead letter in our Constitution. There it also says that there cannot be censorship, but today there is censorship in Brazil. Whenever I speak to people from other countries I realize how lucky we are to have freedom of speech, what a gift it is as Americans to have it. The other thing I think about is, there are things that I would imagine a mom who's sitting in Brazil and watching this has in common with me, and that is ultimately we would want to vote for somebody who would keep our country secure, right? Safety is such a number one issue. And when I think about Brazil, I think about crime, I think about narco-crime, how would you handle your country, which is a massive country that is dealing with narco-terrorism? When the current President of the Republic was elected in 2022 against President Bolsonaro, Brazilian prisons were celebrating. There are several videos on social media and on the internet showing how robbers, rapists, drug traffickers and murderers were celebrating Lula's election. He received more than 80% of the votes from prisoners in Brazil. Believe it or not, prisoners in Brazil are still allowed to vote, which is something absurd, a great shame for all of us. But we are trying to change this in the legislation. Therefore, the fight against organized crime became very weakened under President Lula's government, because it seems that he has become a major reference point for these criminals in Brazil. And they know that under President Bolsonaro, they did not have an easy life, and they will not have an easy life with me, because I will be very firm on this public security agenda in Brazil, further toughening criminal law, building prisons, and obviously also giving alternatives to our young people so that they are not recruited into a life of crime, investing in quality education. But I intend to replicate in Brazil something very similar to what I saw that President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador did, toughening the law, building prisons, and keeping these criminals imprisoned longer, because they are very dangerous and bring so much fear and terror to the streets of our country. Just to give you an idea, approximately 25% of the Brazilian population, therefore I am talking about almost 60 million Brazilians, live in areas, in cities that are dominated by these criminal organizations such as the PCC and the Comando Vermelho, which are the largest in Brazil. These are factions that are even larger than the ones that are currently being fought by President Trump. Without a doubt, this is a very great cause for concern for us inside Brazil. They need to be fought with greater firmness, and they will be, under our future government. Would you be accused as a racist if you did that? I believe that I would actually be highly praised, highly recognized by the people for fighting criminals. Those who commit crimes, it has nothing to do with the color of the skin they have. If people are committing violent crimes, they must be imprisoned, regardless of the color of their skin. I think we'd agree that common sense is not so common. There may be narratives along those lines, as also happens in Brazil, but I think that today there is a broad understanding among the majority of the Brazilian population that people who commit violent crimes in Brazil must comply with the law and remain imprisoned, regardless of their skin color. We have BRICS nations that support Hezbollah, that have Hezbollah in Brazil. So we're not talking about teeny little petty crime or people grabbing little wallets from people. We're talking about international terrorist crimes that are part of groups like BRICS, who are infiltrating your country and using your country as a resource, as a way for money laundering, as a gateway into the Americas. We're talking about serious crime. Once again, the bad example in Brazil today is coming from the top. It is coming from the president of the republic himself. For example, law enforcement agencies in Brazil are aware of and investigating a major cell, including Hezbollah and other terrorist groups in the triple border region in Brazil, which is the border area where the Iguazu Falls are located, a very well-known tourist destination, and where Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina meet. Paraguay and Argentina have a technical cooperation agreement to combat these criminal organizations, but Brazil is not participating by choice of the current president of the republic. This sends a very clear message to criminal organizations that they will not be disturbed while Lula is president. And in response regarding BRICS, recently, with the consent of the current president of the republic Lula, Iran has just joined BRICS, which in reality does not have much effectiveness and brings no return to the Brazilian people, so much so that the worst president in the history of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff, was appointed to be the president of the BRICS bank, precisely so as not to further damage the image of the current president of the republic. Therefore, he appointed this person, who has a very poor political evaluation, she was impeached in Brazil because of her incompetence and he sent her away, sent her where? To the BRICS. And this has not resulted in anything favorable for us Brazilians. The BRICS bank itself has not brought absolutely anything beneficial to us. And certainly, as soon as I sit in that chair as president of the republic, this will be re-evaluated. Whether Brazil should remain in a bloc that today is much more ideological, which is used by President Lula to provoke including the United States and President Trump by proposing within this bloc that the dollar should cease to be the reference currency for international negotiations between countries, something that has no reason to exist. Everything functions well the way it is today under the dollar standard for negotiations, so it has not brought anything beneficial to our country. It is something to consider leaving this bloc. These days, if you are paying any attention, if you condemn Hezbollah, if you push against Iranian proxy terrorism around the world, if you ally with the United States or with Israel or frankly any of the pro-western countries, you're accused as a Zionist. And I know that your father has been accused of being a Zionist and you have been involved in something called the Isaac Accords, is that right? Can you explain to me what are the Isaac Accords and why would leaders in Brazil care to get involved with anything that has to do with a country on the other side of the planet? A large part of the media in Brazil provides this service of misinformation, of criminally lying against politicians who are center-right. They did this a lot with President Bolsonaro, not only with President Bolsonaro, with us on the right, with the Bolsonaro family. We constantly reiterate our admiration for the Jewish people and our recognition of the State of Israel. Therefore, the Abraham Accords, which were made so that there could be this recognition and the re-establishment of trade relations between Israel and countries in the Middle East, were something very positive. And recently, the President of Argentina, Javier Milley, proposed the Isaac Accords with countries that are not in that Middle Eastern axis, that are outside of it, in order, likewise, to improve and strengthen military and economic relations between their countries, including trade and technology. It is certainly something that I will do as soon as I become President of the Republic. I intend, together with President Milley, to also sign it and make Brazil a signatory to this agreement. How do you feel about President Trump maybe being somewhat, I don't know, inconsistent or unpredictable when it comes to geopolitics? Well, I think that when President Trump left the leadership of the United States and Biden came in, the world became much more chaotic. Many wars that were on the verge of happening, President Trump, in his own way, was able to manage situations and the world did not have as many wars as it began to have starting with President Biden's term. Here in the United States, therefore, I obviously admire President Trump for his leadership in that regard, but I also believe that he should look more carefully at Brazil, because Brazil is very strategic not only for the United States but for the entire Western world. It is important that Brazil does not become an ally of the enemies of the United States. I would like him to give even greater attention to us, including because of the mineral resources that exist in Brazil and because of the strategic position we have in relation to the United States, geographically speaking. I believe that President Trump can be sure that, starting from the year 2027, God willing, Brazil will have a president who is an ally of the United States, who respects the American people, but who will also do everything that is in favor of the Brazilian people and in defense of the Brazilian people, so that we can restore this historic relationship of great friendship, respect and commercial partnership between Brazil and the United States. Since President Lula was first elected in 2003, the United States ceased to be Brazil's largest trading partner, and Brazil came to have China as its largest trading partner, and many things can explain this, especially the decisions that have been made by Lula and were also made by other PT presidents, such as Dilma Rousseff, placing ideology ahead of the interests of the Brazilian people. This will change starting in 2027. So, if you were president right now, how would you have reacted to Trump's tariffs? What would you have done? I believe that countries that have been friends for centuries should not treat one another with fees or tariffs. I am convinced that, starting in 2027, when we have a president who respects the American people, just as the American president respects the Brazilian people, we will be able to reach a good agreement, as happened in Argentina, our neighboring country, where under its president tariffs in various sectors were even reduced to zero to allow for better trade, fair trade, between the two nations. I believe it is possible for Brazil to follow the same path, but I think it is impossible for that to happen while today the presidency of the republic is held by someone who has an anti-American sentiment, almost one of hatred toward the United States. That makes it very difficult to put the interests of Brazilians first. Instead, he is placing ideology ahead of the interests of the Brazilian people. The world is changing very quickly, as we're seeing, both in the Middle East, who our relationships are with and who is with us as Americans, who is not with us, I mean, sometimes we don't even know who in Europe is with us anymore. And so I think it is no surprise that President Trump is trying to figure that out by, I guess I would say, shaking the blanket to figure out who's going to make a phone call when they realize that the United States is not going to give unconditional love to every country around the world, despite what we've been experiencing. Do you think that you would be able to navigate through those waters where Brazil would signal to the United States that they are interested in allying with us, as opposed to some of the cold experiences that we've seen over the last few years? I believe that, in fact, the United States was greatly harmed under the administration of former President Biden, which obviously created for the current President Trump a need to accelerate the reindustrialization of his country and to generate more jobs in the United States. I believe he is doing what is best for his country, as is expected from an elected president. In Brazil, I intend to ensure that the interests of Brazilians are always placed first as well. I believe I would be very capable and qualified to build good relations with President Trump, because Brazil is a very important country for the world. We produce food for more than 1 billion people worldwide. Our agribusiness is very strong. As we have already discussed, Brazil can also be a major generator of clean and affordable energy for the entire world, including for the United States. We have large reserves of strategic minerals for the whole world. Therefore, I believe that this relationship of respect between Brazil and the United States can return to good terms, unlike what has happened under the current President of the Republic. We talked a lot about lawfare and the importance of election integrity, and I want to go back to that, because really the future of your country relies on the integrity of the elections. What happens if you don't win? What happens if you don't win and you all feel like the election was stolen? What do you do? First, I am going to win this election, because I truly believe this is a project of God. Things have been happening all over the world, and in Brazil as well, specifically. The only explanation for the scenario that led Brazil to the chaos it finds itself in today, and that is already beginning to change. Many signs have been given, and the Brazilian population has also awakened to this. They will no longer believe the lies of someone like the current President Lula. Just as I hope President Trump does not believe in a person marked by lies, marked by falsehood, and marked by cynicism in these relationships and in these conversations that are taking place between Trump and Lula. This even surprises me that President Trump, who has American intelligence, one of the best in the world at his disposal, does not realize who he is dealing with. So it is very dangerous to believe what President Lula says because his tradition is not to fulfill agreements. His tradition is to act as he has done since his first term in 2003, making gestures toward nations with which he has ideological identification. Therefore, I believe that Brazil has awakened. Brazil is in a wave, in a very strong and growing popular movement, questioning the current state of our democracy. People who were oppressing the population are now in a considerably weakened situation because they are being exposed to possible corruption schemes. Therefore, I have no doubt that Brazilians will be able to choose the path of prosperity against everything that is happening in the country today, and we will take, I believe through a new composition of our electoral court, measures to prevent any type of illegality during the elections, any type of manipulation, because it is an obligation of our electoral court to establish mechanisms that can provide more transparency and more security in our electoral process. I also take this opportunity to ask that all countries, all major democracies in the world, such as the United States, closely observe the Brazilian elections so that nothing happens here that does not reflect the will of the majority of the Brazilian people, and it is the majority of the Brazilian people whose will must be respected at the ballot box. Certainly a lot at stake, and the elections are in October, and Brazil requires every resident and citizen to vote, is that right? It's mandatory voting. Yes. In Brazil, voting is mandatory, and those who do not vote in reality receive a very small penalty, a very low financial fine, but about 30% of voters end up not going to vote. That was the case in the last elections. But I believe this is also a scenario that can change, because the level of dissatisfaction among the Brazilian population with the current government is very high, and with each passing day more Brazilians are convinced that it is not possible to have four more years of the current president of the republic, because certainly he will lead Brazil to jump off a cliff without a parachute, and everyone knows that the outcome with the re-election of Lula is that Brazil will be handed over to misery, as happened in Venezuela. Given that many of us don't trust international organizations anymore, what do you think the international world needs to do when they see a country that is losing its free and fair elections? I mean, are we supposed to create new organizations? Are we supposed to get involved in metal in other countries? I mean, it's your country. Are we, as Americans, supposed to get involved in that? I had an interesting conversation with one of your colleagues about this, because the question is, well, we feel bad for you, but what are we supposed to do? We want to support you. We want you to have freedom in your country. We want you to have internet, and we want you to have freedom of speech, and we want you to have many of the privileges that we have that we fight for, and sometimes we feel like we might be losing as well. But what do you think the international community is supposed to do with countries like yours, where you feel like you have the heel of the World Economic Forum, let's say, right there sitting on your neck, putting pressure because of the resources, because of the size of your country? What are we supposed to do? In Brazil, we certainly need to rethink this submission that we have today. Some international organizations that we belong to are clearly dominated by left-wing interests, and we cannot have the illusion that, in the end, there isn't always someone in charge with some specific interest within these international organizations wanting to make decisions for other countries. So we must restore the strength of our country. The President of the Republic must make decisions to guarantee the sovereignty of his territory and ensure that the interests of his people, the Brazilian people, are placed first and no longer submit to these fanciful international organizations that, deep down, always have someone in charge pursuing their own interests. This has to change, and it is something we must rethink around the world, as we are seeing President Trump raising these questions and making moves so that new international organizations among countries can be refounded or founded for the first time, with real alignment that respects the interests and sovereignty of each country while drawing closer to those who truly share identification with the principles and values that founded their societies. That is why I think it is important that countries which share this identification of principles and values can be united in new international mechanisms so that they can protect themselves. But, obviously, we do not want any interference from any country in the decisions of the Brazilian people. And what we defend is precisely that, a more transparent and safer electoral process in Brazil, one that truly guarantees that the popular will is reflected in the final election result, that is what I believe can be done. So there are various mechanisms that the United States or other nations can use when they understand that there has been fraud, that there has been a distortion of the popular will or manipulation of a people's will, and today these are sanctions that are much more economic in nature, and each country has the right to choose how to relate to those it believes uphold democracy and respect human rights. Therefore, I believe that, once again, we can have this international community among nations that share alignment in values and principles, but never allowing any kind of interference. Senator Bolsonaro, why are you doing this? Are you tired? They come after your father, they come after your brother, you have two little girls, you have a law degree, you could become an attorney, you could probably start a business. Why keep fighting? Because I am tired of seeing my country being handed over into the hands of criminals. Because I am tired of seeing so many criminal organizations giving orders to hardworking people, telling them what time they can enter and leave their homes, threatening working women with a firearm, using an illegal rifle to do whatever harm they want to these women. Because I am tired of seeing that in a country where we have one of the highest tax burdens in the world, we do not receive quality public services in return, whether in security, education, or healthcare. I am tired of living in a country with so much hypocrisy, where environmental constraints prevent the development of our country. It is exactly because I have two daughters that I want them to live in Brazil, to grow up in Brazil, to study in a quality school in Brazil, to study at a quality university in Brazil, so that they can be proud not only of their country, but also of their father, for having been part of changing the history of their country. Does your faith play a role in your conviction and your courage? My faith has everything to do with this moment that I am living. Once again, what motivates me to run for the Presidency of the Republic is everything I have told you, and also to honor an honest person like President Bolsonaro, my father, who did not deserve to be going through all of this. And that is why I believe this is a project of God. Many times God makes us go through difficulties in our lives, we have to cross deserts that are, in truth, like a marathon to build spiritual strength, to develop maturity so that we can face difficult problems head on, without fear, with faith in God that what I cannot manage to solve, God will solve for me. That is how I am facing this moment. I know I will face a very difficult path, that I will be heavily attacked, but I know that God is in control of everything, and in the end it will be worth it, because God will open the sea so that we can cross it, and on the other side we will sing the hymn of victory together with the good people of my country. I can't help but think that as we look at all these issues that we're dealing with as humans, globally, there is a fight of good versus evil, and there are the fighters, and there are the people who give up and get tired. And I think that when we pay attention to really what's happening around the world, many of us are in this together. Many of us are in this fight together where we feel like we see the evil and we can't stop, and maybe it's our conviction, maybe it's our relationship with God, maybe it's our understanding that once things get so bad it's hard to fix them, but is it possible that this battle that we're experiencing as human is even bigger than us? It's a spiritual battle of good versus evil, and ultimately we will look back when we're old, we're not old yet, but when we're old we will ask ourselves what have we done during these spiritual battles, during these crazy intense times? Did we put in an RL? Did we go to the ballot box and vote? Did we develop discernment and understanding of what's happening around the world and rejected the narrative of the media that has been constantly sending a certain message to us? Did we do something? Did we do something so that our kids will grow up in a better world? And I think that as Americans and as Brazilians, we do have something in common, and that is that fight of good versus evil and truly serving God, because I think that if you really love God, you hate evil. That is how I face every day. I have no doubt that this battle is above all a spiritual one, and we can see this happening all over the world and in Brazil as well. There is a great movement, a great revival among young people who are taking not only their faith and their beliefs, but also bringing the name of God into universities, into public spaces, into places that were once unimaginable for God to be present, places that were always very dominated by those on the left, who mock our faith and persecute us because of our faith. Look at what happened in the world after that great inhuman act that was done to Charlie Kirk. Obviously, I deeply regret the suffering of his widow and the family he left behind, but he became an example for everyone. And from that moment on, we were able to perceive more clearly how, in various places around the world, in different countries on this planet, people were inspired by him. I believe this is how God works. He raises people, He empowers people to carry His message to others who were unaware, who did not have the perception that they too are living this spiritual battle. And I wake up every day asking God to give me much health, much wisdom, and much courage, and to torment this demon that has caused so much harm to so many people around the world. And in Brazil it is no different. You can be sure that after this interview the devil will be even more stirred up against me, and I will be even happier, because that is a sign that I am closer to God. It is not a surprise that evil attacks God's children first, and those who walk with God and have faith, and all the accusations against Christians and religious people. It is not a surprise that we are the first line of attack. What is your final message to those who are listening? The message is that we cannot lose faith. When we are very tired, we must remember that we have a country to restore, that we have a family to protect, and that we have a better nation to live for future generations, always with our knees on the ground, with great faith, because I have no doubt that the world is going through a transformation. And in Brazil I am very grateful to God for using me to be part of this transformation and of the restoration of my country. We'll be praying for your people, and God bless you, and God bless the people of Brazil. God bless you, God bless America, God bless Brazil, and God bless our families.