Phillies Keep Rolling, Giants Series Could Be Trouble | Hittin' Season

From WHYY, it is hitting season. Hey there, podcast pals. I'm John Stolnas from The Good Fight. You can follow me on X and Blue Sky at John Stolnas. Coming up, we're going to recap the Phillies' series win against the Colorado Rockies and take a look ahead as the Phillies enter their own personal house of horrors out in San Francisco. But they're catching the Giants at a really good time. We'll see which is the more immovable object, the Phillies in San Francisco or the San Francisco Giants playing awful baseball. But we do want to jump into this up here in just a few minutes on the roundtable. Plus, I have a baseball rules question opinion that I want to run by you guys and see what you all think about it, too. So we'll do that coming up here in the next few minutes. Justin Clue and Liz Rosier both joining me here on the roundtable. Justin, of course, from Baseball Perspectives and, of course, the author of the new book Summer of the Cheap Wieners. This is what the Phillies were doing in 1941 while Joe DiMaggio was chasing his 56-game hitting streak. You can follow him on Blue Sky at Justin Clue. Justin, how you feeling, pal-y? Well, you know, end of the day, there's not really a way to win a series against the Colorado Rockies, I realize. Because the thing about this series that I keep saying, oh, this is one of those, they don't have a reason to lose any of these games because the Phillies are good and the Rockies are so bad. But if they sweep the Rockies, you know, it's just the Rockies and nothing's been proven. If they absolutely, if they get, you know, if they lose to the Rockies, then they can't even beat the Rockies. And winning the series just means they fell short of sweeping them and losing the series means they were just a game away from getting swept by them. So really, there's no way to win when you play the Rockies, possibly the most beatable team in Major League Baseball. So that was kind of a little paradox to enter into here, but ultimately, you know, a positive result, I guess you could say. Yeah. Well, I was kind of, yeah, I mean, I think that's a good jumping off point for our conversation, Liz Rocher, editor of Sabre's Baseball Research Journal, who you can follow on XM Bluesky, at Liz Rocher. I mean, yeah, I think everybody was disappointed when they lost on Sunday, 4-1, looking for that series sweep of the Rockies, especially after they came out like gangbusters on Friday night. It is a great way to start a series, or it's not a, it's frustrating that they lost. By the way, I think if we pull out a little bit from Justin, I feel like he's got like a Pepe Silvia board with all of the strings going across too. They won, but they didn't swept, but if they had won, I enjoyed that image. He's not wrong. You're not wrong, Justin, at all. I mean, you're right. There's no winners when it comes to playing the Colorado Rockies. There are no winners. I think I just, I might just know the audience too well, is the issue. That's true too. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that's a, I think it's really a good question to ask as we're jumping off here. Like, a series win against the Rockies, was it good enough? I mean, especially a 10-1 win on Friday where the offense comes out and scores seven runs early, and then over the next 26 innings, the offense scored just six runs the rest of the way out there in Colorado. But the Phillies had a nine-game winning streak snapped in Colorado on Sunday, winning 10-1 Friday. Saturday, they won in a pitcher's duel at Coors Field, 2-1, and then losing 4-1 on Sunday. Mickey Moniak going deep twice on his former team on Sunday afternoon against the Phillies. That was an interesting little bit of a 180 to see. He does pretty well against the Phillies, actually, in the times he's played them. So let me share, let's just talk first thoughts about this series, guys. Justin, give me your first thoughts on the series, a big takeaway for you. Well, given what I just said, I feel like I'm marketing more in approach success stories this year, especially when you're looking at small sample sizes. It's like a process stories kind of thing, yeah, yeah. Right, like the end result of a play doesn't necessarily determine whether it was a success or a loss. So with that in mind, what these Rockies should be for the Phillies is a regrouvenator. Bad enough pitching for the Phillies hitting to get some momentum, bad enough hitting for their pitchers to show off their stuff. We saw Jesus Lozardo rebound in a big way, great opportunity to do that. Aaron Nola kind of exists in his own column, so, you know, looked good. Who knows what that means moving forward. But, you know, in regards to processes and what you like to see, you know, I'm looking more at Brandon Marsh and Trey Turner, both of whom had successful offensive series here in Colorado. Charlotte Barnes wrote about Marsh's approach, calling it controlled aggression, and how out of all Major League players with at least 400 played appearances since last May, Marsh's 303 batting average enters Sunday's game fifth in all of baseball, which is a heck of a hitter to have down low in your lineup. And like I said, he described it as controlled aggression on pitches within the zone. So he has a hit in most games so far, and only three hit in this series, but he had a home run and he had a double, you know, the bat's still swinging, the contact is still coming, and the approach is still working. And similarly, I really liked what I saw about Joan Duran, somebody I've kind of mentioned concerns about leading up to this series, and it wasn't so much just that, again, seeing him pitch well and get the outs he's supposed to get, it was seeing reports that, you know, he's now calling, he's having Real Muto call the splinker a two-seam fastball over the pitch comm, because he wants that, like, in his head, like, no, no, it's supposed to go, it's supposed to be low, like, I want it to go low. And now he has a splitter that he has started throwing that is, like, now they call for that, too, and he actually used that to great effect against Willie Castro, got a huge strike out there, seeing more swings and misses from, like, that kind of stuff. So just that general idea of, like, Marsh and Turner I mentioned who had six hits in this series, by the way, went six for 12 in this series, kind of an unsung offensive asset there at the top of the batting order. Seeing the approaches kind of adjust and evolve, you know, we saw a report about Bryson Stott as well and changes he's made, but I think we're that general ability to pivot when something maybe hasn't been super effective, even if it always has been, and just, you know, using what you maybe were working on in spring training to kind of get over an early hiccup. Seeing that both from guys like Marsh and Stott and especially Duran is really encouraging, even when you can qualify it by saying, like, yeah, but it's the Yeah. Liz, takeaways for you. Um, what's left? Um, the... You can say again anything that Justin said that needs reiterating, too. I mean, I plan to when it's my turn. Um, I was encouraged that Arenola did well. I feel like it's like a monkey's paw. He did well. He did well in Colorado. What's Where, where will he do well next? Unexpectedly. Um, I really enjoyed seeing Jesus Lizardo. Um, him coming back out and doing well was such an encouraging sign, especially after seeing that he's, he seems to be sort of like a goldfish, though. He seems able to forget. Once he's out there on the mound, he seems to be able to forget what happened last time. And that's so valuable in baseball, because every, pretty much everyone needs to have the mind of a goldfish. You need to forget what happened, not just yesterday, but like 20 minutes ago. You need to not remember what happened 20 minutes ago, even if it was terrible. So seeing that the Phillies, at least the pitchers have that type of, you know, get back in them is really, it's really great. You know, the offense was fun to see. And I think some of the hitting has been unsung because after Friday, uh, only what three runs cross the plate for the Phillies. So it's a little, it's a little tough to see the offensive upside when they have maybe like one inning of really good, of really good offensive play. I think there were a few more where there were, at least when I mean good offensive play, they actually got some runs to cross, you know, home plate. Michael Lorenzen keeps telling teams he's a starting pitcher and boy, they just keep believing him even after he throws beer league that, that no hitter. He threw for the Phillies a couple of seasons ago, man. He's still, he's still getting work on that. You know what I'm saying? Talk about a monkey's paw. I mean, good Lord, there is just nothing left. No doubt about it now. And then we got the worst, right? No, the Phillies took advantage of him on Friday night. And, you know, there were a lot of the, a lot of crowing, uh, coming out, um, from, from folks about the Phillies offense. And look, I wrote a story for the good fight on Friday and noting that the, their offense is down around baseball right now. And I wrote, there was a list of, I think, 25 players that I wrote down that I think we would all consider star players who had an OPS like in like the five hundreds and six hundreds. I mean, it's not just a Phillies thing around major league baseball. If you zoom out, like Aaron judge was struggling. Cal Raleigh was struggling. Even Shohei Otani was struggling. Aaron, I mean, everybody was struggling. Um, so it wasn't just, this is a different column, but jock Peterson just had his first hit of the year on Sunday, right? Like there's just, it's real early. And so it shouldn't be a surprise that offenses is slower to get started here. Um, but so there, but there was a lot of chest puffing out after the Friday game. I know Rob Thompson said something like, you know, somebody is going to pay. I think he said this before, like somebody is going to pay for the Phillies offense being quiet so far. And then I'm going to see Rob was right. And look, he's not wrong. Good. Good. It was the Rockies, the team that you definitely need 10 runs to beat. Right. And Rob's not wrong. Like the offense will break out because we've seen all this before. I keep telling people like, stop trying to judge the 20, 26 Phillies as a new thing. Cause they're not, it's, it's a continuation of 23, 24, 25. And that's okay. You know, it's, it's comforting. You know, it should give us, it should prevent us from hyperventilating and overreacting. You know, if the team gets off to a slow start or they have a series where they're not swinging the bats, well, I know the offense is going to come around at some point. I know it's going to be really inconsistent. That's just how the year is going to go. There's gonna be certain players. I don't know exactly how they're going to do. I don't know that Brandon Marsh is going to keep this up. I don't know that Bryce Harper is going to continue to be a negative wins above replacement player all season long. I highly doubt that he will like, it's just the nature of it. So I think if you're looking for like a tangible takeaway, it's easy to kind of get really down on, on how the series played out because of the way the offense finished the one of the most mediocre pitching stabs in major league baseball. And you just want to know, you know, why couldn't they carry that first inning and move that through Saturday or Sunday? And it just didn't happen for them. And so you had, again, just, you had the one beginning and then you had a couple more home runs on Friday and then a couple of spots here on, on Saturday and Sunday, but the offense largely went missing again. But I would choose to look at the, the pitching in this series against yes, Iraqis lineup. That isn't great, but the stuff that Aaron Nola and Jesus Lizardo were throwing in Colorado, I don't care who they were pitching against. They were going to have really good results thrown the way that they were Aaron Nola's velocity is among the most encouraging things we've seen so far here in 2026. And the fact that he's been able to locate his, his higher velocity fastball, 93, 94 mile an hour fastball from Aaron Nola makes him really hard to hit when he's able to do that. And then Jesus Lizardo, my goodness, 11 strikeouts, no walks in five and two thirds innings. What a bounce back for him in his second series. Like you said, a goldfish memory, Liz. I mean, he just forgot about it and moved on to the next start and looked like a Cy Young contender in that one. And then, you know, you get Taiwan Walker on Sunday. We're going to talk a little bit more about him and Zach Wheeler's recovery and what the Phillies might do. Cause it was not, it wasn't as bad as his first start of the season, but it was a Taiwan Walker start. You know, he gave up four runs, but what would he expect from Taiwan Walker? You're right. Everyone's right. We shouldn't expect a whole lot more from Taiwan Walker than that. It's still annoying to watch. And so we can be a little annoyed by it and it's okay. All in all. Yes. A series win. Yes. It's okay to feel unfulfilled by winning two out of three against the Rockies, especially the way the Phillies kicked in the door when they first got here. It's like they kicked in the door, you know, sat down on the couch and then, I don't know, ate salad the rest of the weekend. I, it's not a good analogy, but that's, that's all I could think of. You just bring up a salad at the field where they're serving something called a glizzilla now. Come on. That's the reference you go to. Yeah. Massive 23 inch, one pound all beef hot dog. Do you not listen to the show that we've talked about this on Friday? Okay. I missed that part. Enjoy your salad. Yeah, I will. It's a Cobb salad. You're trying to sell your one pound and you're just like, I'll take a bowl of leaves. Get out of here on the dressing. Um, one thing I want to say, the most frustrating thing, the most frustrating problem the Phillies had for me happened on Sunday when they, when they could not hit Tomoyuki Sugano, who gave up the most home runs in the American league last year. He gave up 33 home runs over how many starts? 30, 30 games. That's a lot. And the Phillies couldn't get a single one out of them. And he pitched for Baltimore. They got one. They did get one. They got one. And Kyle Schwarber hit a ball out to center field, caught on the warning track. That would have been a three run home run in 28 of the 30 ballparks in major league baseball. For whatever reason, that one section of the ballpark and at Coors Field is I guess the one spot where the homers don't go out. Harper hit one, I think over there too. He had, he had an almost that he was very frustrated about. Yeah, I think you can look at it in short term and long term successes. I think you just listed the short term successes. Hey, look, these pitchers came out and had great rebound performances against a crappy lineup. And you can take that. That's, that's a great sign. Great sign from relief pitching was also, you know, even, even outside of Duran, you saw great bullpen work. Tim Miza, Justin, holy milk. But the last guy added to the team is on air to start the season. Tim Miza podcast right here. That's what you want to see. Yeah. So these are, you can, you can hang your hat on that stuff while also acknowledging, yeah, there was an offensive explosion that did not, it did not carry on. And you can certainly, you know, it's, it's the Lance McCullers principle. Are you beating a team or are you beating a pitcher? And on Friday, the Phillies beat Michael Lorenzen, you know, they're fully capable of beating the Rockies, but they beat Michael Lorenzen that night. That's the reason there were 10 runs instead of like five. So yeah. Is the offense really fixed or were they just taking batting practice off a guy who's terrible? I think we all know the answer to that question. I think so. And they can make further adjustments moving on and maybe the offense will, uh, will evolve even further, but for now that's the takeaway. Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And the other takeaway again, like you said, is the pitching staff is doing really well. Cole Weintraub from NBC sports, Philadelphia noted that uh, the Phillies pitching staff, uh, has done a really good job at limiting loud contact so far. If held opponents to the lowest hard hit rate in baseball at 33.8%, that's a good number. Even though their team ERA is 4.39, their expected ERA, which is a number that's based on the quality of contact is a nationally best 2.87. So some good things to take away from the pitchers so far here. And again, that, that in that national series, I can't remember a team dinking and dunking and, you know, finding a way to score as many runs on the Phillies as the nationals did, especially against Taiwan Walker, who isn't good. I'm just going to say it isn't good, but man, they didn't have a single hit that left the bat over a hundred miles an hour in that, in that entire game. I was seeing like national writers and, and, and, uh, followers saying, Oh yeah. Three out of the four hits. If the, if the nationals hitter hadn't hustled out of the box, they wouldn't have gotten the first base. And you're like, wow. Loser teams really just have a language all their own, where you can instantly recognizable where you're just like, look, look how fast they ran and in the right direction. And that's why we won the game. Like we can all see the Texas leaguers and the oopsie daisies and the oops, I didn't mean for the ball to go over there, but then it did that got the nationals on base in that series. Yeah. Nobody's sitting there going, wow. I think what we learned here is that there's a very unique Scrappiness to the nationals offense. No, it's duct tape together. It's probably going to be the worst in baseball. It's fine. It's great. They don't wear first bases. You don't want to know the nationals formula for success, Justin. That's not what you're advocating. It might be locking Dale and Lyle up longterm. Apparently he's the most unstoppable hitter in baseball. I guess so. He can play. Um, one, uh, Matt Gilbert, an article for the athletic after the Rocky series and an interesting piece in there about Bryson Stott, who had a red hot spring. Everybody was really excited about Bryson Stott, especially coming off the second half he had last year and the way he was smoking the ball in the spring has not carried it with him up north and OPS of five 35 hitting out of the five holes so far here, uh, through the first week and a half of the season. And Gelb noted that Stott has been a mad swinger so far here, uh, through the first nine games of the season. I had to do the math real quick in my head. He has swung it nearly half of all of the pitches he has seen this year. Only last year, only 12 players swung at a fewer percentage of pitches than Bryson Stott. He is renowned around the league for being someone who is patient, who doesn't swing the bat and we'll hit with two strikes. So he has struggled here since they've come up north to he's and I give him credit list for he's trying to kind of, he knows what the scouting report is on him and he's trying to buck that, right? He's trying to say like, okay, you're going to throw me a bunch of, you're going to throw me a bunch of strikes early in the count. I'm going to start swinging at them, which I've been advocating for. And I think it's a good thing for him to learn how to do. This is one of those cases where again, I'm, I'm not, I've never been overly optimistic about a Bryson Stott all-star season or a bounce back season. I got, I've just been burned on that the last two seasons, but I do think it is good that he's trying this new approach because it's pretty clear the old approach of being passive wasn't working for him. So what's your take on, on Bryson Stott so far this season and whether or not this is going to work? I like the new approach if only because I think it's a way for him to marry the two approaches. He's done one extreme and now he's doing the other and, you know, hopefully he'll be able to find a mode that works for him within that. I, I still believe in Bryson Stott. I'll never stop believing in Bryson Stott. He is my Brandon Marsh. I love him. And I want him to, I want him to do well. So I hope that this approach really helps him. I think he's just going to need some time. And I know time isn't a lot, you know, there isn't a lot of time in the majors, but it's not like they're going to send him down. I think he just needs a little bit of time to figure out what he's doing at the plate, especially since what he was doing down south isn't working now. And so he's got a sort of, now he's sort of like, well, everything stopped working the way that I wanted. Now I have to figure out how to make it work correctly. Justin, is it time to switch your boy Brandon Marsh and Bryson Stott in the lineup? Brandon Marsh, after all, as you mentioned, hitting 303 since May 1st of last year and hitting 303, 343, 485 so far this season. You know that it is because you want to, and Rob Thompson says, give it a minute. And that's generally means that it's, you know, it's going to happen just in someone else's timetable. And I think that's fine. I can't imagine either of these guys having their days ruined by being flipped in the batting order. All in all though, I mean, I'm thinking the Rob Thompson approach is right for Stott's overall idea here, which is, you know, yeah, you can talk about, okay, he's got the highest chase right now and he looks like he's, you know, he's doing something different and it's, it's, it's hitting like 230 or whatever as a result of that. But I think you got to stick with it if only because it's been two years of waiting for him to like, you know, him saying like, okay, now we're, this is going to happen. And it hasn't. And that's fine. It's just now that like you're showing, okay, they've got a book on me. That's something I can at the, you know, control a little bit by taking an entirely different approach than the one for which I'm known. And now they've got to pitch to me differently um, from the way that they've kind of like entrenched themselves in pitching to me. So like now that's going to be different for them. And it's like doing that Joe Carter thing of So for that, I, I think this is worth sticking with because of that alone. Cause he is going to get better at it, you know, as time goes on as having this kind of approach. And he's also capable of being patient and then, you know, he can go back to that anytime he wants to as well. So he still broadens his skillset and ability to face a pitcher and put more pressure on the pitcher, which is just changing things in general, which, you know, it's the kind of thing people talk about when they talk about shipping a guy out of town. Oh, it's change a scenery candidate. Okay. Well, this is changing the scenery in a different way and you didn't trade them. So I think this is something to stick with regardless of the results, at least for, you know, as long as Rob Thompson's willing to stick with it. Yeah. And you're right about the lineup changes, Rob Thompson, cause he schedules these things three and four days in advance. So it's not going to be like a spur of the moment. Oh, we're going to switch the line lineups up today. No, he doesn't do that. He's got the next week's worth of lineups already written out. And that's kind of how we dream last night, made some changes. That's right. This is all in a Gmail thread, by the way, obviously. Check it out. Y'all line up. Someone asked me about the dream I had. Be great. If he had like a blog where he would talk about his dreams, you know, wouldn't that be fun? I love it. What managers do are do cute stuff. What is it? The, the manager of the, the brewer has had a pocket turtle. He just brought out a turtle from his pocket. Apparently last year he brought pancakes out of his pocket during an interview. Case of the out of his pocket at one point. I think he's like the pocket is the gag. Yeah. That's a weird gag. Pat Murphy. That's the same. It's weird, but it's kind of cute, you know, it, it is weird though. It doesn't, it's what, you know what? I like that. It's weird. I'd rather it be weird than it be. I mean, what is good? What is a predictable manager bit of like comedy? Like, I think he wears a thing that has like big pockets. So we take stuff out of them. But I'm like, that must be something that he did or does with his kids. That must be like a little joke that he does, you know, when his kids were young. And so now he's sort of bringing it into these interviews. I don't know. I think it's cute. I'd rather that than like a manager with like a puppet or something. My grandfather, when I was younger one of the things he used to do with us was he would get an old hunting wool cap on and take us up to his bedroom. We had a bunch of hard candy and stuff like that. And he claimed he's comes up Dr. Moosehead and give us a, you know, pretend to give us like, you know, examinations. It was just an excuse to give us candy and stuff. And I'm thinking it's the cutest thing ever. And I remember it. And when my boys have grandkids, I'm absolutely bringing back Dr. Moosehead. And if I were a major league manager, I would probably come to the postgame interviews as Dr. Moosehead. That's probably that would be my thing. Not as instead of a pocket. I like it coming with a big wool ski cap. And Dr. Moosehead, the postgame just after a win. Nobody would be into that after a loss. You know, it's like it's cute after a win, after a loss. Now take your pockets, take, take your hat, take go someplace else. I was trying to come up with a no turtles today. Dream, dream blog. Best I got so far is bring out the slumber lumber. I'm not. I don't think it's there yet. It's not bad. Not bad at all. It took me a second. Yeah. Yeah. Not bad. Yeah. So, you know, it's not there yet. Yeah. Yeah. So this is this next issue is not a huge problem, but it's and it will hopefully get solved pretty soon. But Taiwan Walker is probably going to be in the rotation for at least another couple of turns. Zach Wheeler's last rehab start for Lehigh Valley did not go great. He had a rough third inning, I think it was, where he was damaged by some poor defense in the outfield. He probably would have been out of the third inning without giving up anything. But an error out there led to two runs. And then he gave up a bomb right after that. I think it was five runs in the third inning. But the more concerning part is not giving up runs because, yeah, when you're playing in front of some minor league defenders, you know, that's going to happen. The issue is the velocity with Zach Wheeler right now, as he tries to come back from his thoracic outlet syndrome. Velocity was in the ninety two to ninety three mile an hour range with his four seam fastball in his last rehab start when he was healthy last year. His fastball averaged ninety six point one miles an hour. So that's a significant difference. There's about a three mile an hour difference right now in his fastball. But you've got you've got Taiwan Walker right now making starts for the Phillies, who is also throwing about ninety two or ninety three miles an hour and sometimes even a little bit slower than that and a little bit less effectively. So the question I wanted to ask you all is, and I'll start with you, Liz, should the Phillies keep Zach Wheeler in the minors until his fastball velocity is closer to where it was a year ago? And if so, like what would be OK for you to feel good about him coming back to the major leagues? Or if he feels good, like there's no injury issue, there's no soreness, there's nothing else. If he feels good, should they put him back in place of Taiwan Walker? Let's say he's getting at least another two starts in Lehigh Valley. Rob Thompson committed to that. After that, if he if he still got the same velocity as now, but he says he feels good, would you call him up and replace him with Taiwan Walker, who's kind of throwing in that range anyway? I would replace him if he's feeling good. I don't think there's any reason to keep him down anymore. And I don't think he will want to. I think I mean, not that he's going to have a choice in the matter, really, but he's like the staff. He's essentially the staff ace. They want to keep him happy. And so I don't I don't see them having him stay down there longer unless he really wants to. And so I think they'll probably defer to his wishes. And if he's feeling well, I think they'll let him up and see what happens. You know, when Zach Wheeler's bad, just like any pitcher, it can be real bad. But I would trust him with a slightly lower velocity than more than Taiwan Walker. And beyond that, there's also the chance that once you get Zach Wheeler back into his real routine with his actual teammates, you know, in a major league game with major league players accounts, there's a chance that the adrenaline that naturally gets produced will help him get his velocity back up there. He is that type of guy. Justin, what do you think? I'm thinking the other way on this. If I'm going to see a rough start, I'd rather see it come from Taiwan Walker, who I'm expecting to give me a rough start rather than Zach Wheeler, who a rough start is going to be discouraging and mean all kinds of other things potentially. He's already fast rehabbing faster than anybody thought. So what's a little more time? Because the goal is to get 100 percent Zach Wheeler, not 90 percent Zach Wheeler with more room for error. They've got guys who can carry the load. They got two guys that are considered National League Cy Young contenders without Zach Wheeler in this rotation. And they're never going to be right now. I was saying his name. I was in the middle of giving him his flowers. Give me a second. All right. Sorry. Sorry. You got whatever Aaron Nola's good. It's kind of not really flowers. I had to not sound flowery. That was what the crap decides to give you today. Whatever Aaron Nola is going to be is also potentially a good thing. Andrew Painter is exciting because Andrew Painter is, you know, an experiment. You're waiting to see how this plays out. Looking pretty good so far, but you got to let it get let him get his chances. So, you know, yeah, if it's the difference between not quite there, Zach Wheeler or already there, you know what to expect. Taiwan Walker, I just give Wheeler all the time he needs to get up here and be the closest thing to 100 percent or literally 100 percent. I'll tell you what, though. Last night, I just want to mention the Clearwater Threshers season kicked off in the Florida State League. Gage Wood started for that team. There's a name you want to keep track of. It's a righty who's going to he's expected to swiftly move up through the farm system. I'm not saying he's going to be making starts for the Phillies this year. No, not necessarily. But, you know, I think, yeah, OK, just definitely know that. But he did pitch four innings last night, struck out seven, allowing one hit and no runs. They're going to keep a heavy, heavy look at his workload this year. But it's a game that, you know, with this fastball already sitting mid 90s, something to keep an eye on as we're talking about pitching and who's going to be where. Yeah, the only reason I throw cold water on Gage Wood with the Phillies is because he only pitched 40 innings last year. And like you said, they're going to manage his workload and be careful of that. But yeah, he's going to be a fast mover. I'm predicting he finishes the year in Reading and maybe maybe he gets a start in triple A, just like as like a here kid, you know, great season. Let's give you a triple A start at the end of the year. But that lines him up, you know, for for twenty twenty seven, you know, and that's that's a lot of fun to think about. Another name to mention, like if and I agree with you, Justin, on the Zach Wheeler front, and I don't think Zach Wheeler he strikes me as kind of a perfectionist type guy who won't want to be at the major league level until he feels like he's got his good stuff. I don't think he wants I don't think he would want to be back on a big league mound at ninety to ninety three. You know, I think he's like I said, a perfectionist kind of person. So my guess is like he would want to stay and really work on stuff, work on that velocity until he can get it certainly higher than ninety to ninety three. I think if he's like ninety five, he's averaging ninety five. I think I think that would play, but that still might require a little bit more time for him down in triple A with with Lehigh Valley. So I think it's going to be more than just two starts. I think it's unless we see an unexpected big uptick in his velocity, which might happen as the weather gets warmer, too. I mean, that could certainly be something that happens and we'll see. But one thing that one name to keep an ear out for if Taiwan Walker really falls apart here is Alan Ronhill. Twenty eight year old right hander has a two point four five era for the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs over his first eleven innings. I'm sorry. No. Over his first ten and two thirds innings this year, he's allowed just one earned run and struck out ten in his first couple of starts last year, had one hundred and thirty one strikeouts in one hundred and twenty four and two thirds innings in twenty five starts for the Phillies last year with a two for the Iron Pigs last year with a two four five era. So I think that's the guy if they need to call someone up from the minors, if Taiwan Walker is a problem, it's probably Ronhill who is the first guy called up. But didn't didn't Wheeler say at the end of this Phillies deal like that's he's retiring? Like, yes, he pretty much put it out there. So every single start is going to probably be more important to him moving out from here on out because he's got a good point, a number ticking down on his head. Yeah, so I agree. And I think I think his bar is higher than, well, I'm at least as good as Taiwan Walker. You know, I think he wants to do better. So I think I think you'll if you don't see him till May, like you said, OK, you know, that was the idea anyway. So you don't see him till May. April would have been fantastic and it still might happen. It's only April 6th. We'll see. Do you know do you know what a win on track is in a situation like this? That would be a huge win. Yeah, huge win. Yep. And, you know, save some bullets for later in the season, too, you know, which could be a thing as well. Before we preview the upcoming series against the Giants in San Francisco, did you guys see what Joe Adele did this weekend? Oh, my God. Yes. Sunday that he did this. Joe Adele became the first player in baseball history to go over the wall and rob three different people of home runs in the same game. In fact, no team had ever done that before. No team had ever robbed three home runs in the same game. Joe Adele, at least I don't know how you track this. You know, I mean, it probably can only go back to a certain time because, I mean, who knows might have happened in 1948. But back then, they weren't doing a lot of jumping in baseball. No, I was going to say they were wearing cement shoes and athletes, you know, were average. Yeah, right. This was a ground game. Yeah, we want to leave the earth when against the natural order of things. And you would probably be banned from the sport. Yeah, no, it was it was it was termed too showy, you know, back in the 1940s. It catching balls. Why? The ball was supposed to go over the wall and you robbed it of its dignity, sir. So that's a little hat back on and get out there and leave your glove for the other team to come out and use. So Joe, that's right. That's the other thing. The baggy pants is just too hard to move. OK, so we're getting away from the story. Joe Adele hit Rob's three home runs for the Angels on the last one. He's ranging over into the right field corner and in in Anaheim, the the wall is really low, like it's hip, it's hip level. So it's very easy to fall into the stance there. And so he as he's running into the corner, he catches the ball in the warning track and then his next step takes him over the wall. And so they they look at the play. They make sure that he held on to the ball the whole time. He raised his glove up. There's an iconic picture of it that a fan took from the stands from behind showing him with his glove up in the air. It's a really cool shot. But I saw somebody mentioned this online and I I think I kind of agree with it. And that is that him falling into the stands with the ball should have resulted in a home run. Now, according to the rules, it's an ounce. And I'm just wondering if you guys think that's the right rule, because he caught the ball. Sure. But the ball and his momentum took him out of the yard. So, in fact, he did not keep the ball from leaving the yard. The ball took him out. So to me, that's a home run. I think that should have been a home run. The ball left the ballpark in his glove or not. It took him out of the ballpark. He was not able to keep it in. So that's that. What do you guys think? I'm going to say I feel like the you mentioned the glove just I think the glove itself, the ball being in the glove is what prevents the home run. I think that's it. I think because it has to be a home run. The ball has to go into the stands naturally without anything around it. If something touches it, that's interference. And so I think that it's a home run still. I love that we're all I love that we're taking this amazing accomplishment and we're finding the little tiny things in it we can argue about. This is the best thing that's going to happen to the Angels all season, by the way. Yeah. So let's let's definitely take it apart. Yeah. I brought this up. I think this I definitely think it's not a home run. It's a it's an out. It's an outcatch. That's what in addition, that's also what the rules say. Two ways to look at this. I think one is, you know, if you're a wide receiver catching a football and then you run out of bounds, you still made the catch. You're just out of bounds. You know, if he's if he's climbing up into the stands to make the catch, then yeah, that's a home run. But I'm also looking at it like and this is the this is the I think the better view, like the whole baseball field is a spaceship and everything outside of the spaceship is space where you're going to die. So to safely be outside of the spaceship, you need to be wearing a space suit. And in this case, the ball is wearing the fielder like a space suit. So it's still like on the field. I think that's the way to look at it, because it's definitely an out. Like when an outfielder catches a ball, they're stretched all the way up. Their glove goes back. Like, think about their glove goes back into the area where it might be a home run. The glove itself, where the glove is, is a home run if the glove wasn't there. But the glove is there and the ball is caught. And so do you just want to call like any ball that reaches this place, regardless of, you know, reaches, you know, wherever this is, even if it has a glove on it, is a home run, because that would take away home runs in the outfield. I can re-explain the meat suit thing. No, that's okay. My point here is if the ball takes you as a fielder off the field of play, then it's, it's not an out. You have to sting the ball. You're acting like the ball, like, bit into his glove and carried him away like a predator. Like the ball isn't, it doesn't matter. You got to keep, he got to it. The ball's in his glove. The ball's dead in this scenario. The ball isn't out when it's in his glove. Is behind the plate off the field of play? No. And there's foul territory. You can catch the ball in foul territory. I'm saying within the confines of the actual field. If you leave the confines of the actual field, if the ball, if you make a catch in it, takes you off the field entirely, you know, where, where you, you, your entire body has left the field, then it's not an out, but you have to stay on the field of play. The football analogy. Well, I want to actually want to hear your explanation in that. It's like, if you catch the ball, but you don't get two feet in bounds, it's not a catch. You've got to stay, get two feet in bounds. Yeah. His last step was in bounds. His last step was in bounds. Well, it doesn't work because some of these, some of these home run catches come with these guys in the air. So there's no way to have two feet on the field of play. What I'm saying is like, it's okay. If a guy climbs the fence, reaches over the fence and pulls the home run back and brings it into the field of play. But if that guy catches the ball and then tumbles over the fence, yeah, it should not be an out. That should be a home run. The ball went over the fence, whether it was in a club. What happened first? No, it was the ball caught resulting in an out. And then it went over the fence again. If yes, then there was an out before it was a home run. Yeah, that's exactly right. I think that's true. No, I, I get, I get I still think you have to keep the ball in play. You have to keep the ball in the field. I know it's not the rules, but that's not part of the game. I'm saying we should change it. I'm saying, I'm saying the rules should be changed. I'm saying I don't like the rule. I think the rule is dumb. John is trying to tear down Joe Adele's accomplishments for, and I think I disagree. I think it's still an out. I think, you know, I think that's, I just disagree. I hear what you're saying. And if that ball leaves his glove on the other side of the fence, maybe we just have better, better security to make sure guys aren't like scooping it back up and then holding it up to show, Oh, look, I caught it. You're like, I don't know if you want to do that. I don't know. I'm looking at it as even if both feet aren't on the ground, if we're going back to a wide receiver analogy, if you're on the right side of the fence, let's just say the field extends upward to infinity, just like the foul lines go all around the earth. Uh, let's just assume then that like, if you're in the right space above the field, then you're still part of the field of play. And if you catch the ball, it's an out, it becomes an out immediately. And then anything that happens afterwards doesn't count, I guess, unless you drop it. Right. I mean, and that's the rule and that's, and I get that. I just, and I think you can even, you can lean your whole body over into foul territory or in, or over the fence for a home run and catch a ball. As long as you, as long as you're able to get back onto the field of play without falling into the stands. I just feel like falling into the stands is essentially the same as the ball being out of play. Why doesn't the hitter simply hit the ball longer? Well, that's a good point. He probably did an older boy. Rob, you have a bunch of home runs. Is that what we're talking about? Ever come close to hitting a home run? Yeah. He had great warning track power. Man. That's on the back of my baseball card right there. Warning. That was net right there. I led the league. You bet. Yeah. Yeah. Your player called this prospector in your hometown. We know all about it, John. That's what I got. I like the debate at the very least, even though I disagree with you. I think the question is worth asking. And even if it breaks, even if it tears Joe Adele down a little bit and you're right, I've done about 40 home runs. Um, still, you know, it's still just a cool, just great baseball, just a hundred percent objectively great baseball watching a guy do that kind of thing. Yeah. A lot of fun. And, um, and, and I, I, I offered this, um, offered this take on, on X and 90% of people were agreeing with you. I'm in the minority on this one, but, um, I was also in the minority on, they were really polite about it too. They were super polite. It was a really valuable conversation. I'm glad I had it there. Um, and I think, you know, it's, I just have to, I just have to accept that this is going to be like my take from 2016 about the DH coming to the national league, which everyone hated. And now everyone universally believes is the right thing and should have happened a long time ago. I just, I'm ahead of the curve on this. And I look forward to in 10 years, when this rule has changed everybody coming back on my side. So that'll be fun. I will enjoy that. And I'll play this back episode number 10, 60 of the podcast and make a mental note of that. I'm glad you feel as strongly about this as the designated hitter thing. Suddenly planting my flag, Justin, this is not about anything else. It's about this for sure. Got it. Yep. Let's move on. The Phillies starting this week, take on the San Francisco giants out at Oracle park and we go back a house of pars for them. Three game series. Uh, our good buddy of the podcast, Paul Pasadena has already emailed me about this. Um, he is, uh, there for every series. Um, he's been following the podcast for a long time. I've read of the podcast for a long time and, uh, um, has goes to every single Philly series out in San Francisco and just routinely tortured by the Phillies out there. Uh, the Phillies are eight, eight, eight and 27 at Oracle park since 2014. That is a two 28 winning percentage out in San Francisco. However, this is very early in the season for this trip out to San Francisco. So even if they get swept, it's a good time for it to happen, but they are getting the San Francisco giants at a time when they are playing maybe the worst baseball of any team in the national league. Maybe in the sport as a whole, their three and seven record is tied for second worst through 10 games for them since moving to San Francisco in 1958, they had a two and eight start in 1983. That was worse. Their 26 runs scored are their third fewest through 10 games since moving to San Francisco in 19, um, in, in 1958. Um, I'm sorry. Third fewest through 10 games in history, third fewest. And the giants have been outscored by 25 runs over their first 10 games. That's the worst Mark through 10 games in franchise history since they were negative 49 in 1896. And they were not in San Francisco at that point, the Mets just finished sweeping a series against them by winning 10 to three, nine to nothing and five to two. And Matt Chapman, uh, made the first out in the ninth inning down five to two, trying to steal second base. Uh, the announcers ripped him to shreds, uh, after that maneuver, um, not a single giants regular has a league average OPS plus Matt Chapman is at six 78, Louis six, 78 OPS. Louisa Reyes is six 36 Raphael Devers, 602 Willie Adamas, five 60 and old friend Harrison Bader with an OPS of three 97 here in the early guy. What this means. I say all that to ask, what does this mean? Well, uh, Buster Posey said his team was set up to have a strong lineup and enough pitching. And they came into the season with the general idea of being the bullpen is the worst part of the giants. The rotation's not that much better, but the lineup can, can carry them. Now the idea here wasn't that they were bringing in like bashers and smashers and the Lear's most fearsome hitters. The giants had a very specific strategy, which was, we need to cut down on strikeouts. So we're going for big time contact guys. This is what Louisa Reyes is doing in San Francisco. This is why they're trying to jam him into second base, which was also a topic of debate among giants fans. Like should this guy be at second base? And you know, Posey goes on KNBR and NBC sports Bay area is like, this is, you know, he's, he's strongly defending the signings of his team. Cause that was big in San Francisco. This year was, we didn't do enough. It was really underwhelming what the, what the giants did this year. And they have this plan that like was all about, you know, the idea was, Oh, Bruce Bochy is available. Like let's bring him in. They're like, no, no, we got like different plans. We don't, we got an opener for opening for manager. He can have any job but that. So they go with make some noise, bringing him in from NCAA. And so it's all part of this big plan is big strategy. And I think, you know, their fans are like, okay. And it's been a frustrating couple of years. And now this is really a spike downward. So I think all in all, you're looking at a team that was like focusing pretty hard on one thing. And Hey, look, if the goal was to cut down on strikeouts, they have 83 strikeouts as a team this year at that, at this, at this time they had 90. So you can't not call this offense, a resounding success for what it set out to do. They have seven, fewer strikeouts on April 6th than they did last year. Hey, that's pretty good. Of course they, they also are tied with the reds as John mentioned of the least scored amount of runs scored in baseball. They are, they have hit four home runs and it's also last in baseball and they've only walked 26 times, which is 28th in baseball. So they're not really great at being a lineup, you know, maybe they're good at not striking out, but they're not great at generating offense. And I mean, at least the match-ups are making me feel a little better that Aaron Nola game. Hmm. I'm going to have my eye on that one because that's, that's going to be a potentially chaotic event, but you know, I don't want to automatically think that given the Phillies track record in this stadium and that the giants are struggling, you know, in this way that things are falling into place for, yeah, they're definitely just going to drive right over the Phillies. Um, I think Christopher Sanchez versus Robbie Reyes, you know, that's going to be a great pitching match-up, but I think Sanchez is perfectly capable of controlling a lineup in this state. Um, but I want to say that like, you know, Andrew Painter is new to this. He has not part of the giant mess that has been the Phillies coming to San Francisco for the past 35 games. So perhaps being a new presence and a new factor in this cycle of horrors could potentially derail it, uh, in, in, in any kind of way. And then Sanchez, you just rely on his dominance and then Nola, you know, hopefully you have two wins by that point and you don't have to worry about what happens in that game. But, uh, I think we all know the Phillies aren't immune to anything just because their opponent has been struggling lately. They are what three and three against the nationals and Rockies. The two teams, uh, projected to finish at the bottom of baseball so far this year. So clearly they're capable of losing to inferior teams. Um, however, you know, Hey, I think it's four and two, just four and two. Cause they went one and two, they went one and two to start the season against the Rangers. But yeah, your, your point's taken. They have not been beating up on those teams. Yeah. So, uh, I, I do think, you know, they perhaps have opportunities to take advantage of to break the cycle this year as they do any year, but this year they don't, they got some particulars that, uh, that could be to their advantage here. Um, but I mostly just feel bad for Paul because I know he goes there and he makes some noise and, uh, Phillies make him pay for that. And that's just a really uncomfortable place for your team to put you in. Yeah. Listen, it's going to be Andrew painter making his second MLB start fresh off of that dazzling debut that he had last week. Uh, he'll be going up again, Adrian Hauser on Monday night, Tuesday, Christopher Sanchez versus Robbie Ray Wednesday, Aaron Nola versus Tyler Maley. Um, is this the year the Phillies finally win a series in San Francisco? Does it feel like it to you? You won't hear me say that until it happens. I've, I've watched, I'm, I have not been to those games like poor Paul, but I have watched many of them for reasons passing understanding because it's way past my bedtime. So I, I, I would love it if they won a series. They just have to win two games. They just have to win two games. It seems easy. It sounds easy. It seems easy. It sounds easy, especially since the giants right now are putrid, but we know what happens when they go to San Francisco. Like maybe this time it'll be slightly better because they got, uh, used to the time change in Colorado. Maybe it will be so severe, but I know that they've done that before and, you know, hop skipped their way across the country to make that type of thing easier. So who knows? Like, I, I hate it when they go to San Francisco, I hate it with the fire of a thousand sons. I'm glad it's early this year and I don't have to think about it again because I could, we could just, I could just forget these games are on. It's so early in this season. I could just forget and now watch them. I will have my hand closed coming from Denver, shorter flight, you know? I'll have my hand by the clicker is what I'm saying. I'll have my hand by the remote in case something gets out of hand because I no longer had the stomach to watch the Phillies do crappy at, you know, play crappy baseball in San Francisco. Buster Posey's, uh, when he was questioned about the, the, the moves, the giants made this winter, you know, he, he had praises for some individuals or he was like, oh, Harrison Bader's defense is great. And Louisa rise to three batting titles with like, by the time he was 28 and Tyler Maley, you know, he was hurt last year. He was actually looking pretty good. He's again, these are things you say when you're trying to convince people that you did enough and you probably didn't really do enough. But the main thing that he said to sum it all up, I think they're all great big leaguers. You don't stay in the league as long as they have without being great big leaguers. So everybody's entitled to their own opinion. He was basically like, Hey, they're employed by major league baseball. So they make whatever you want, which is funny because he's kind of in charge of them being employed by baseball. So he had to, he had to back that far out to give his guys their due. So just keep that in mind. Things are going well for old buster. If you're asking me, is this, and I can tell you are, uh, is this the year the Phillies finally win a series in San Francisco? I will tell you yes, that it will happen this week. They are going to win the Andrew painter start and they're going to win the Christopher Sanchez start. And we're going to hope for the sweep with Aaron Nola on the mound. And I'm not saying Aaron Nola is going to do a bad job. I just don't think they're going to win that final game. The Phillies last year, it was their calling card to win the first two games of the series and lose the third one. And as frustrating as that was, they ran that formula to 96 wins. So it is just the way they operate. And I see no reason for it to change, but I do think they are substantially better than this giants team. They're going to face here this coming week on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. All right. Uh, let's finish up here with some final thoughts. Justin, what do you have to finish off the show? Uh, you know, I wish there was more to it or made of it, but this will be 10 years this year, this June that the Phillies had the number one pick and took Mickey Moniak. So it is nothing but appropriate that he had a two home run game against them, uh, to prevent them from completing the sweep in Colorado. Um, it's something I thought about doing, didn't get around to it, but just sort of like, yeah, a brief retrospective on, on that, you know, having the number one pick and then it wound up being him and just didn't work out. And we all know the story and the context that like, you know, it just wasn't a year where a number one pick was the sexiest thing you could have, uh, given the talent level. And now he's off in Colorado, which I guess is still technically major league baseball, but, um, yeah, just, uh, just something that you never, you know, you rarely, especially the Phillies, a team that, that is capable of like, it's a big market team. That's supposed to be, you know, post-season contender pretty regularly to have the number one pick is a really unique thing. And you may not have that too many times as you watch your team and that the Phillies got you know, I'm really not trying to be mean here. Uh, I'm just trying to think of the thing to hang my hat on to, and the, and the, and the compliment, um, Hey, two home runs. I couldn't hit him and he sure did. So he's a better baseball player than me. No doubt about that. Um, you landed the plane Justin, congrats. Number one pick of 2016 Mickey Moniac. Nobody can shake that. Take that from you. I'm sorry. We didn't get to call you the maniac for 10 years in Philadelphia. And it's, and I cannot, and no one can fault picking Mickey Moniac. When you look at the rest of that draft, uh, let's do Ian Anderson, Riley pint, Corey Ray, AJ puck, Braxton Garrett, Cal Quantrill, Matt Manning, Zach Collins, Kyle Lewis, Jason groom, Josh Lau, Will Benson, Alex Carrillo, Matt Thais, Forrest Whitley, Blake Rutherford, Justin Dunn, Gavin Lux, TJ Zuch, Will Craig, Delvin Perez, Hudson Potts, Eric Lauer, Zach Birdie, Cody Sedlak, Carter Keboom, Dane Dunning, Cole Reagans, Anthony K, Will Smith, Dylan Carlson, Dakota Hudson, like three or four major leaguers currently with the Phillies. So look, they got something out of that draft after all. That's pretty nice. By the way, we would have called the Moniacs. He masks and had styrofoam machetes and stood in the back row. That's all. Yeah, that would have been good. We missed out. Unfortunately, he's actually turned into a serviceable platoon outfielder for the Colorado Rockies. So good for him getting his career going. All right, Liz, final thoughts. Um, my, uh, my father has been going through my grandparents house and I don't have it in front of me. Yeah, they do. Unfortunately, well, they probably expected it though, considering that they've both passed on. I don't think they know. Um, but he found my, my grandmother saved a lot of random things. Um, he is constantly finding weird Phillies things. And as, um, I was there a couple of weeks ago to watch my parents talk and they gave me a little gift package full of random stuff. One of the things there, there was a 2001 Phillies rally towel. Nice. Just the most random thing that, and I just adored it. I have a, I'm going to put it up in the room here somewhere just because it's random and I don't know why she saved it. Same reason I don't know why she, why my grandparents saved the, the reproduction picture from Time Magazine, I think, of, uh, the first, uh, the, the first spacewalk on the moon. Wasn't signed. It was just a picture from like Life Magazine or something. 2001 rally towel, man. Get that thing signed by Larry Boa. His, uh, that was, uh, that was his time. That was his era. That's fantastic. That's what I want. Yeah. All right, everybody. Well, look, hopefully the Phillies are able to actually do some things well out in San Francisco. And if you're not able to stay up and watch the baseball games, have no fear. Listen to the hit and season podcast midweek. And at the end of the week, as we will continue to keep you company here on the 2026 Phillies season, this round table edition of the podcast can of course also be seen at the WHYY YouTube channel. If you're listening to us, uh, go to WHYY's YouTube channel, subscribe, and you can find all of the round table episodes right there. And of course, tell your friends and family members about hit and season. We're on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever it is you get your podcasts. And now always feel free to send us an email. If you want to share your thoughts, hit and season at Billy Penn.com. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time right here on hit and season.