The Man Who Discovered Out of Body Experiences

Bob Monroe was a pioneer in the fields of out-of-body experiences, dreams, and accessing other dimensions via the mind. Monroe seemed to crack the code on how to peek into those dimensions where your soul actually came from. In fact, using binaural beats and studying these things, he quickly drew the attention of the CIA, who was interested in the Monroe Institute's findings and studied his remote-viewing discoveries for decades. From old interviews and articles we've stumbled on to the CIA's gateway process ripped right from Monroe's research, plus John's remote-viewing data into other realms and otherworldly beings, there's a lot to uncover. Join me, investigative researcher Rob Counts, and professional remote viewer John Pavanko for a metaphysical show that's out of this world. John, how you doing? Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself? Good, good. This is going to be a fun episode. There's a lot about Robert Monroe that I've been intrigued with recently anyway, and so it's pretty timely that we're doing this podcast. But why don't you tell me a little bit about Robert Monroe and kind of who he was? Because I feel like people have forgotten about him, and also that you're going to stumble across his work sooner or later if you're in the space of ascertain what really happens with the human mind and how we reach higher levels of spirituality, or even higher dimensions. Yeah, he was an absolute pioneer in the field of consciousness studies. And if people don't know if they just happened upon this, Robert Monroe is deceased at this point, and the Monroe Institute is his legacy, which basically uses frequencies, a type of binaural beat in order to move the brain, the mind into an altered state of consciousness. And so he really pioneered this stuff from the 1950s. Previous to that, he went to college in Ohio, went to Ohio State University, and I think he got a degree in engineering and English, and then he started to work for radio. He was writing shows and directing radio shows back in the 1930s. And shortly after that, maybe around 1940, he moved to New York, where he continued on the same, just writing and producing radio shows. That was it back then. There was the television beginning to arrive in people's homes, but people mostly listened to radio for entertainment, for news, for everything. They had game shows on radio and variety shows, drama. That was it. So that's what he did. And in the 1950s, he developed his own company, his own production company. And he was experimenting with...this was a big thing back then. People were experimenting with learning in their sleep. How do you learn while you're in the unconscious state? And so he began to tinker with, mess with audio while he slept to see if he could learn and gain more knowledge while he was sleeping. And that led to, in the late 1950s, of him having his first out-of-body experience. Now, he had no idea why this happened. He thought perhaps he had a brain tumor, his body would vibrate, he would have pains in his body and his gut, and he thought that he had a brain tumor. But he went to the psychiatrist's friend and determined he wasn't crazy, he didn't have a brain tumor, and that he was basically, he's having a spiritual problem. And so at that point, he let himself go completely into the vibration because he thought it would kill him. Go completely into the vibration as he's laying there, drifting off, and that's the first time that he left his body, had the out-of-body experience. And so from there, he had set up, he had a lot of money because of his, you know, producing these things and big production company. He did not want to go into television because that was not what he was used to. He thought it was a good time to probably just like dip out of the whole circus and move more into research side on tones, on leaving the body, on what was happening to him. And, you know, he had stated this as this selfish endeavor that he put money into because he wanted to understand what was going on with himself. And, you know, so he had hired people, set up an institute, you know, gone through the whole thing, messing with sounds, tones, while he continued to have his experiences. And it was in the 1970s when a big paper came out on binaural beats. It was huge, very big paper on binaural beats and how that has the ability to entrain the brain to a certain frequency. And he jumped on that, added his own knowledge in tones, very familiar with sine waves and the equipment used in biofeedback as well as production of the tones. And he went for it at that point and just began to integrate that into these layered tones, layered frequencies, and volunteers on what these things would do to them in a controlled environment. And so from that, the Monroe Institute was formed, and the tones were formed into the HemiSync brand that he has. And the HemiSync brand, it basically has forward-following frequencies, and he's got at least one patent on forward-following frequency. So his development of this went into an area that nobody else was doing or nobody else has done since, you know? I mean, he's a genius, really, when you get right down to it, in how he approached this, but very relatable. He's like your grandpa. Sounds like a 1940s radio commentator, something like that. So his Monroe Institute got the eye of the CIA, which most people know, and they started to become very interested, and they did research and wrote a paper on what he was doing, and HemiSync and his stuff, and began to send, you know, INSCOM and Army started to send people working in the remote viewing program over there for training. But it goes strong today. Monroe Institute goes strong today. So the man really just has carved out a path in this field that related to it, but it's like its own thing at the same time, like completely its own thing. And they continue to work, and, you know, I think Joe McMonagle, one of the ex-military remote viewers, is still working there. I know Skip Atwater, who ran Stargate for a period of time, remote viewing program, was directing it. I don't know who is now. I'm not sure. But yeah, Robert Monroe, you know, just incredible, incredible work that he's done. Yeah, so there's a few interviews online that you can check out of Robert Monroe explaining all of this and explaining his experiences. And, you know, of note is that first time he had an out-of-body experience where he kind of, as you mentioned, leaned into the vibration, and he's laying in bed, and one day he doesn't really know what's going on. And all of a sudden, he feels one of his shoulders hit something, and he looks over, and he sees this fountain. And I think in his mind, he's like, that's it, I'm dead. He doesn't know what's going on, and he keeps looking at this fountain, and he realizes that it's the chandelier in his bedroom. Oh, and he's upside down. He's upside down, and he looks down, and he's like, who's that man sleeping with my wife? And he's kind of low-key upset about it, and he starts floating over, or whatever it is, to this man, and he's looking closer and closer, and he's like, well, by George, that's me, right? That's me in bed with my wife. And then he's like, what's going on? I'm having some kind of psychological problem here. And so he starts, like as you said, seeking out all of these doctors, and these friends of his, and getting all of these analysis done on him, thinking he's got some terminal ailment, and they're finding nothing wrong with him. Over and over again, they're finding nothing wrong with him. And finally, one of his, I think it was one of his psychologist friends, tells him, well, if you really want the answers to this, you need to go to India, and basically train with a guru for a few years, and figure this out. And he's like, what are you talking about? I'm not going to India. I have like a family, you know? And he's like, I'm not a Westerner. I don't understand other cultures really well. I'm going to try to figure this out for myself. And as you said, got him all into this stuff. And what I thought was so fascinating is he's describing the hemi-sync process, which, you know, started with an out-of-body experience, right? And I, a few times, have been listening to binaural beats that Jon made, you know, because I've taken Jon's remote viewing classes, and I've experimented with this stuff. And one day I called Jon, and I was like, the day after, and I was like, dude, I don't know what's going on, but my entire body is vibrating. And it is a really freaky feeling, because you feel like you're in a meditative state, but there's this bizarre vibration going on. And your reply to me was like, you're about to have an OBE. And this was the first time that I did, I sat down with binaural beats. And, you know, I haven't personally had an out-of-body experience, and most of that is because I spend so much time writing for the show. I haven't had time every night to kind of go in and listen to these binaural beats, but I'm really interested in experimenting with it more. But, you know, back to what he was saying about all of the other stuff that he figured out by lining up the two hemispheres of the brain, where these binaural beats would lead to people having greater focus to work out problems in a shorter period of time. He was finding that binaural beats could be a solution for almost any problem in your life, this hemi-sync solution to almost any issue in your life. And it could lead to these out-of-body or fantastic experiences that I think take people way, way outside of what we normally experience on the day-to-day basis as being a human being working and sleeping and eating, dealing with family. It adds an element of just mystery into your life that is just so inspiring, yeah. Inspiring. It's needed, I think. It's needed. The thing that we have here is that we've got five senses on this thing, and our focus is within those five senses, very strong on those five senses. And then we have the idea of a conscious and a subconscious, or a conscious and an unconscious. Conscious is this where you can track and remember, but it's typically difficult to remember what happens in the unconscious or the subconscious side, which is where every single person goes to every single night. And Robert Monroe's talked about this, I've talked about this, people who do this stuff talk about this, is that when we go into that dream state, unconscious, we are leaving, we are having out-of-body experiences, we are interacting with other beings, other worlds, we are doing things. It's almost as though we have a separate life from this. Like if you think of conscious, the conscious experience is this big, it's like the head of a needle, where the unconscious is forever, massive, huge. And so one of the things, so here's one of the things, Robert Monroe was intent on trying to remember, right? Learning in sleep, like remembering things from that unconscious state. How do you bring things back from that unconscious state? And so when you get into hemi-sync and stuff, and what he's developed, you would have these, probably these layers of theta vibration, which would take you into deep hypnagogic, along with maybe an alpha vibration to a low beta vibration, which would be more thinking, conscious world, where you would remember. And so if you train in a way, and I think for everybody, like if you lay down with his stuff, hemi-sync, the gateway process, or you develop your own binaural beats, you don't want to have this, like, okay, it's just going to be in theta for 30 minutes or an hour. You want it to, and this is how remote viewing, how remote viewers will train, this is how I trained and still do this work, is that I will have binaural beats that take me down into theta, keep me down there for a bit, and then push me back up into a high alpha or a low beta. And then drop back down to theta and do that over and over again, because then you start to develop this ability to remember. Because normally when people go into that theta state, that's their trip down to sleep. They don't go back up, that's their trip down to sleep. So the habit is to just do it all the way down. And then once you go into sleep, you go into delta waves, you forget everything. You completely forget. So the more that you practice that type of thing, the more your unconscious world opens up and becomes inspiring and magical. Because like I said, the unconscious world is infinite, whereas the physical sensation world of conscious is tiny, extremely small. Yeah, one of the most interesting things as I was experimenting myself with these binaural beats was that I started noticing a greater ability to remember my dreams. And I know I'm the type of person that does not remember my dreams. I don't. Even if there's something that I remember when I wake up, it's gone in a second and it's only a feeling, it's a very intangible thing. And then it's gone within seconds. But I was starting to notice that through doing the training, I was actually remembering more what was going on while I was sleeping and I was able to bring it back with me, which honestly seemed pretty valuable. Because some of the things that you're experiencing while you're dreaming, they're a direct correlation to stuff that's happening in your life. And not having dreams for as long as my adult life, I just have not really had many dreams. Only recently have I started having them more and then being able to work out what's going on and cultivate those parts of myself. Maybe it's a fear, maybe it's something else. And then it enlightened me more to how remote viewing really works because you're really relying on these more unconscious parts of yourself to relay information to the surface in a reliable way. Yeah, the thinking brain is the translator, right? Yeah, exactly. The thinking brain is the translator of the unconscious, subconscious information. The thinking brain is not the thing that engages in the process of remote viewing or psychic functioning. It's the unconscious that brings it where you pay attention, you learn how to pay attention to that, and then the translation happens in the brain. So a lot of people get messed up by that because the brain is really all they think they have to work with. And when people try to use... That's what we've been taught. Yeah, exactly. And when people try to use their brain in all of these processes, it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So you have to come from a different place. And so a lot of training in this realm is to begin to tap into the subconscious, how to understand how to use it, how to understand how to be in it, and integrate that more into your conscious mind. Well, as far as dreams go, I've seen there are two different types, in a sense. There are two different categories. You have your psychological dreams, and psychological dreams tend to be like anywhere from two to four scenes, where if you remember your dreams in general, you would notice that you have a number of scenes that occur. And the scenes will be different, but kind of metaphorically the same throughout the two to four scenes, maybe even more sometimes, or what you can remember. And these are typically psychological dreams showing you some kind of issue or some kind of feeling that you have, and you're working through it, you're trying to work through it. That's very internal. It's a very internal subconscious process. Now, there are other types of dreams where it's like one scene, and there's interaction with others, or you're doing something. Those are typically the dreams where you are out of body, and then you're coming back, and the brain is having a translation of that. So it's not like a necessarily literal thing. It's translating it so that the conscious mind can understand it. So those are the two pretty much categories that I've experienced with dreams. The only other thing that I feel like I experience sometimes with dreams is, if you can remember it, is this like pure chaos, where it's just nothing makes sense. It's like all of these stitched scenes or almost dimensions you're experiencing at once, and none of it really even makes any sense. It's just like information. Yeah, because it makes sense when you're in it. If I was to talk to the Rob that was in it right now, and you're in it right now, you'd be saying gobbledygook, but telling me how much sense it makes. It makes perfect sense. But then when it comes to the conscious and the conscious trying to understand it, because the conscious mind is relegated to physical reality, and a lot of the things that occur cannot be translated to this. So from that perspective, if it just becomes insanity gobbledygook, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. One of the other issues I have when I'm dreaming is, in my dream, some people, they'll be like, yeah, I realized it was a dream in the dream, and then I started controlling it. They're talking about lucid dreaming, right? I have this issue in my dreams where every single time it's a dream and I'm in the dream, I'm looking around and I'm like, this doesn't look right. Then I start really focusing on things in the dream, and I'm like, is this a dream? I'm asking myself in the dream constantly if this is a dream, and then I end up waking up. Those are the ones a lot of times that I remember, because my consciousness gets too aware of what's going on, and then it pops me straight out of whatever I was experiencing. It's kind of a bummer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that would be locale one. Robert Monroe basically had different locales. I think he had three or four locales. Locale one is what he called this realm that was near the physical world, but it's like an astral version of Earth. In that world, things are slightly different, but the same. Let's say you leave your body and you see you're in your house, but your furniture is in different positions, or you have an armoire that you know you don't have, or whatever. It's this astral version of Earth that's slightly off from ours. What you're talking about sounds a little bit like that. Then with lucid dreaming, lucid dreaming can lead to, yeah, out-of-body experience. I've lucid dreamed as well. It's like realizing you're in a dream and then going, whoa, yeah, now I can completely control this, and then just flying around and doing stuff. Inevitably, you leave your body in that process. Yeah. Okay. You're basically saying that it can lead to an out-of-body experience where the first part is realizing it, and the second is then going along that path, you're actually having an out-of-body experience and traveling somewhere, performing. Yeah, you can. You can if you don't get too excited. Typically, in a lucid dream, most people will get so excited that they finally realize that they're in a dream, and they'll just wake up from it. That's what happens to me every time, dude. That's normal. You have to keep practicing that point. Then once you get past that point of not getting overly excited, you can keep your focus in the dream, and you can start to manipulate the dream world. That can last for a short period of time before you go back unconscious again. It's like this next layer that you have to work with to keep pushing to stay conscious. Then within that, you can just move out of your body. You can also move out of your body just by practicing. When I was a teenager, I had heard that people could leave their bodies. I think my dad mentioned it or something, and I didn't know what that meant. I was like, well, I'm going to just leave my body. Every night, I would just be like, I don't know how to do it, but I'm going to concentrate really hard on leaving my body. It took me about two weeks or something, and I freaking popped out of my body, literally popped out of my body. Like Robert Monroe, I hit the ceiling, and I was looking down on myself going, whoa, this is insane. It was so insane. I couldn't believe it. What did you do? I just slammed back into my body because I got too excited, and then I just ran into my parents' bedroom. I was like, I left my body. They were like, okay, okay, Joe. Okay, so yeah, a few things here. Recently, there were a few people on the Joe Rogan podcast over the last year, Hal Puthoff and Dan Farah. Dan Farah is the guy that directed the new documentary film that came out, Age of Disclosure, I believe it's called. Dan Farah was talking at length as a part of this podcast with Rogan about remote viewing and all of the different people that had come forward as remote viewers that were talking to him and the things that he had figured out about it. They had a pretty long conversation about it. I got curious. I ended up finding a podcast that I think aired, maybe it was around the same time or a little earlier, with Hal Puthoff. Now, Hal Puthoff is one of the main guys that you could put your finger on that was running point for the US government on remote viewing. What's interesting about Puthoff is that he is a physicist who doesn't believe in any of this stuff. Even when you're listening to him talk, he's always protecting that part of him. I'm not criticizing that at all. That's just his shtick, so to speak. I've found that with just looking over a lot of the documentation that Robert Monroe put out and listening to Hal Puthoff, reading a bunch of stuff on remote viewing and talking to you, that this is something anyone can do. I think that people often think, well, oh, this person's special. Oh, this person is a psychic. He's got psychic abilities or whatever that means. But actually, these are tools that the human body comes with. If you practice, even if it takes a while longer than another person, it is something that you can train yourself and you can start to work the science of this whole thing out with yourself as you go. Where I'm at right now is if I had an out-of-body experience, if I tonight put binaural beats on and I pop out of my body, I'm going to get so excited I'm just going to pop right back into my body. That's guaranteed. It's like doing it enough to train my mind to be calm and kind of go with the flow a little bit is where I'm at right now, I think, is I've got to put a little bit more time into that. But yeah, this idea that whether it takes weeks like it did you, John, or it takes months or even a year, it is something that you can do if you put your mind to it and you work on the problem and you intend to do that. I think people aren't really used to that concept just with this whole idea of our conscious brain leading everything and the way we've been taught by the empirical sciences. Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing, too, about all of this is that with remote viewing or any of this psychic stuff or stuff that has to do with out-of-body or astral travel, the people who are pure materialists only want to have people prove it to them that something's happening, that it works, right? Whereas people who have the open mind will just experiment with it to prove it to themselves. So there's this huge chasm between those two worlds where it's like, what do I need to prove to anybody when you literally can just prove it to yourself? And if you find you can't do it, which is going to be very doubtful, then you can just go on with your life as a pure materialist. But I don't waste time on proving anything, really, to get down to it, because all of this stuff is available for people to prove it to themselves. And if you haven't yet experimented with this, do it. I mean, absolutely do it, because it opens up this other area. If at the very least, just exploring your own consciousness, your own mind, I mean, that's a huge benefit. Why does it work? Why is syncing both hemispheres of your brain, why does this cause that type of reaction in your energy body, whatever you want to call it? How does that work exactly? Well, okay, so with binaural beats, you've got, let's just say you want to produce a theta brain wave. So what happens is that if you put, let's just say you put 100 hertz in one ear, you look at a waveform, and then 105 hertz in the other ear, your brain is going to sync to that 5 hertz. So it's entrainment. It's going to entrain to the 5 hertz. Now, you can't necessarily hear that, but it's happening in your brain. And so if you're looking at EEGs, you're looking at brain studies when people are in different states of consciousness, altered consciousness, meditation, sleep, they all follow specific brainwave patterns. So when we go into those brainwave patterns, we will begin to experience reality in an altered way. And that leads into ways where we can perceive other dimensional realms or perceive other beings. Because the beta brainwave state that we're in right now is this full conceptual thinking world. And that brainwave state limits us to perceptions that are beyond it. I mean, for instance, like even think about this. Our senses only capture a very tiny fraction of the light and sound spectrum, for one thing. And we've seen over and over again, just in the light spectrum that our eyes can't see, if using IR, we see other beings sometimes show up within that IR. So the people who trust completely and only the five senses become so narrowed and so limited in what they can experience and what they can see. When you drop that, slow the brainwave state down, move into that altered state of consciousness, you begin to see those worlds and see those realms. That's one of the things that cracked me up so much about Hal Puthoff, what he was saying on Joe Rogan, was that he still doesn't know how it works. So this is still kind of a mystery even to you. Even someone who has studied this for this long, you know that it works, but you're not exactly sure how it's working. Is that a fair assessment? That's a fair assessment. He doesn't know how it works. Well, nobody knows how it works. See, that was the whole thing with remote viewing, was that, okay, before Ingo Swann came up with the coordinate style of remote viewing, okay, they were doing things like the outbounder experiments where they would give an envelope, it's all like double blind, give an envelope to some person and that person would open it while they're in their car and then drive to a location and then the remote viewers would get to work sketching where they are. Okay, they liked that experiment at the Hal Puthoff, Russell Targ level because they could get some sort of loose shaky science around it saying that, well, the person, the subject at the site is acting as a beacon and the remote viewers, the psychics can tap into the beacon and see through their eyes. This is how it all works, you know, from a physics standpoint. So when it came to Ingo's coordinates, so Ingo had the idea of, well, wait, look, one of the biggest problems is we can't tell the psychic what we want to know because then they're front loaded and they could just make a bunch of garbage up. So we have to have an address system. What if we use coordinates on a map? You know, they won't know like what they're related to because there's so many coordinates. Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ were hesitant to try that at first because they would have no way of explaining that to the higher ups from a physics standpoint. No way. No way. So they hesitated on that and they pushed back on it until they finally did it and it was so successful that it became the method, coordinate style remote viewing. They still can't explain it. They don't know why it works, but it's a black box, you know? It's like black box. You don't need to know how it works in order to use it. Well, yeah, and I feel like if we were to base everything off of our theories that our physicists have without actually putting things into action and trying things, we never would find a result on anything. I mean, that was the entire thing around the atomic bomb is that the theoretical physicists were working with the experimental guys and on the ground actually trying things out and it was only a combination of those two that ended up figuring out how to create the atomic bomb, which is a terrifying example. But still, I think most things could be potentially related to that. The physicists are never going to believe that these things work based off of the laws of physics that we know to be present around us. And there's so many paradoxes within physics and the theories that they have as well. I think what's interesting, too, is the example of the latitude and longitude and the coordinates is that once they started doing it over and over again and getting a positive result, that became its own data. And then that data they weren't able to deny. I mean, we don't know how it works, but it is working, and here's how it works because we're trying it and it's got 100% or a 90th percentile accuracy with getting the correct answer back. Yeah, I think the trick in remote viewing is on the analysis side. I mean, having good remote viewers is one thing, but having a stable of remote viewers and then on the analysis side in understanding how to analyze, especially when you're dealing with civilians, because civilians have a different mindset than military. And in the military, they were able to pick and choose from people who have had psychic experiences who are very grounded and are in-depth on that. And then it was their job on top of it. And then when you get to the civilian world, you usually just have weekend warriors. And you have to, if you've only got to work with weekend warriors, then you're dealing with a lot of dreamlike gobbledygook imagery and whatnot that's coming through in the remote viewing session where you have to understand their brain, their mind, in order to analyze their data. But one of the things that does happen is that the more that a person remote views and the more consistently they remote view, even though they can be very metaphorical or conceptual in the beginning in what they're trying to describe, they become more and more and more refined as describing everything in this one-to-one ratio physically, in a very physical way. So that works itself out over time. It works itself out over time, but you have to practice. If you don't practice it, it doesn't happen. It's like, yeah, like an instrument or anything. Right. Yeah. Okay. John, you mentioned something interesting that I want to come back to. I didn't want to let it slip because people probably heard it as well, and it's a pretty large part of this conversation. You mentioned potentially, through these out-of-body experiences, interacting with other entities, outside entities. Robert Monroe, in one of his longer interviews, talked about how, for long stretches, he would have beings that he talked to that seemed more like guardian angels or something, that were trying to help him understand something for a period of time, and some of them would even duck out at different periods. He would meet a certain entity and ask questions and learn things from them. Obviously, through the years, I've developed a lot of non-human friends and had some wonderful conversations and meetings with them. I wanted to actually read this to you because it's so interesting. You haven't heard this story yet, but I want to hear your thoughts on it. Next week, we have an episode that will drop. It's a breakdown episode on Metaphysical, where I'm just relaying a bunch of information I found. You're definitely going to want to check that out because that episode is pretty awesome on how you can change all kinds of things in your body just with your own thoughts, whether it be depression, problems that you're having, etc., etc. This story comes from that episode, and I want to hear your thoughts on it. In the mid-1980s, there was a woman taking a college course called the Biology of Cancer. A guest lecturer came in to tell them about a new kind of therapy that they had tried on a little boy who was in the hospital with a brain tumor. The kid's big thing while he was in the hospital was playing an arcade game that you remember called Asteroids, which was super popular at that time. What they did was they told him to close his eyes and picture the game in his head, focusing on turning his guns on the tumor and blast away the tumor just like he blasted the asteroids. They did this every single day for just a short while, maybe just a few weeks. But when they took another scan of his tumor, all that was left of it was a small calcified dot. The cancer was completely gone. Of course, I wanted to know more, but she didn't really know the name of the lecturer, only that the story had stuck with her all of these years and that it was the most interesting class that she took in college, bar none. It was actually so interesting and popular that it was hard to get into this class. This was like a 500-person lecture hall class. Now, the same woman that I'm describing in this story was watching my Dreams Are Real episode. In one part, I explained how the CIA and Monroe Institute, which we're kind of talking about here, developed a gateway process, which was to achieve altered states of consciousness through synchronizing the hemispheres of the brain. And when she saw that part, she immediately said, oh, that's what the guest lecturer said that she also worked on. They figured out that if you harmonize the two halves of the brain left and right, then that could occur, and she could access who she called a spirit guide. Now, this is the guest lecturer at this college, right? Now, the guest lecturer interacted with the same being who would appear to her frequently, and this was every time they synchronized the hemispheres of the brain. The CIA knew this in the 1980s and developed their own gateway process, as I mentioned. The people treating cancer with alternative therapies knew this in the 1980s and tested it on themselves. You have Robert Monroe talking about this with the syncing up of the hemispheres, and then this alternate lecturer talking about it, and you just mentioned it in this podcast, so I kind of want to hear your thoughts on this whole thing, on linking up the hemispheres of the brain and the potential entities that you could come across. Oh, yeah, the entities thing. If you want to talk about Robert Monroe, he had those locales, he had three different locales. He thought that the first locale was sort of that Earth-astral world, slightly off from ours, like different-dimensional realm. Then he had locale two, which was like this deeper, non-physical realm, which was big. It has no boundaries to it, which is like our own subconscious. It is our own subconscious, in a sense. People would ascribe heaven and hell layers in that realm, as well. Then he had locale three, which was even further out, and he had said that entities would show up mostly in the locale two and beyond, not necessarily in that locale one. In that locale, you'd find different entities, like from hostile ones, parasitic entities. He used to run into these that were goblins, so he called them parasitic goblins, that are low-level beings, what people would describe as demonic. They would feed on emotional energy, like fear and sexual impulses. Some of that was dead humans that were stuck in loops, as well, in that realm. Then he had described neutral and curious beings in that realm that also were like out-of-body travelers he would experience there, too. Then these native, non-human entities that were indifferent or observational. That realm, that locale two, would be where you would find the more benevolent guides and the higher-level beings. That is the place of, depending on your mental state, like are you fearful? One of the things that he always said was that the more fear you have, the more you're going to pull in the negative experiences and the negative entities to yourself. There's this thing that he talked about also called loosh. You remember that term in his loosh, which is an energy that humans create that a lot of these beings had told him that Earth was a garden for loosh. He coined that term? What's that? Robert Monroe coined the term loosh. I think he did, yeah. He also coined the term out-of-body experience, which everyone uses, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of beings, negative and positive, the positive ones will focus and want people to have more of the love feeling because it feeds them, and the negative ones will want the darker fear-based feeling because it feeds them. The emotional realm of Earth people can get very extreme, and that puts out an energy that other beings like or want. These higher beings guide that people see when they move into that unconscious state because the unconscious state is literally like moving into the other realms and the other dimensions because that's where it exists. That's what happens when you synchronize both hemispheres of the brain and move into an altered state is that you begin to have perception and travel into those realms because it is literally part of our subconscious. Those are where those beings exist. Now, people will still have experiences where they have a spirit guide or whatever eventually plow through the conscious mind to get them to see something, and people will have spontaneous, like, oh my gosh, that was a spirit guide that did something or said something to me. It felt good and kind and benevolent. But for the most part, if you dip into that realm by synchronizing the hemispheres of your brain, then that will come forward a lot more. His experiences within that realm were really interesting because he was always looking for his home, which I find fascinating. It became a huge part of his early work. It's like, I want to go home. Where's home? This selfish desire that you described earlier about him putting all of these resources into that was largely in part not just to understand consciousness, but was to find his home. Who said this? Yeah, to find his home. I think he's agnostic, didn't hold to any one religion, and more about his own exploration to understand the truth, which is really how it should be. So when he went home, when he finally found home, I think there was one being that showed him how to snap into home by stretching himself. This is literally out-of-body talk. Stretching yourself really tight, like a rubber band, and then letting go, and then you will arrive at home. It's got to do with intent as well, obviously. When he did that, he found himself in the most incredible, beautiful place of these expanding clouds and roiling clouds, along with this music that was the most incredible music you could ever hear. When we think about this, when we look at this, we go, well, heaven. Home is heaven. These are the descriptions of heaven. But then he started to notice that the clouds would move in a pattern, and then loop that pattern, and they kept looping the pattern with no new patterns. And then he noticed that the music would loop as well. It would never have a variation up to a point, and then it would loop back to the beginning. So when he noticed this, he left because he got very bored, and he decided for himself that it must be that everybody gets bored of home and then wants to leave because there's nothing new to learn there, and he wanted to keep learning. And I think for years, he expressed depression over this because he just didn't have a home, or home was no longer for him. And so he had a lot of depression over it, and then he started to ask the question, well, then what's driving all of this? Who's the one that is doing the journeys? In a sense, who am I? What am I? Looking at himself at that point, because he was always looking outward, even though he was going inward, still treating it as looking outward, which I find a very fascinating and very interesting path that he would come to that, because that's typically where people go when they really want to know what this is, where it's the difference between heaven and nirvana. Heaven, the Christian idea, versus nirvana, the Hindu or Buddhist idea, which comes through a person engaging in meditation and questioning of the self and who they are. So I thought that was interesting. But when you get back to this construct that we had remote-viewed around it, and the heaven, because we wanted to know what was that? What was he experiencing? What was that? And the data around that literally talks about daevic realms, god realms, heaven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talks about heaven. Talks about this idea of a construct that exists that is not necessarily something endless, but has limitations to it. And then it goes into this idea of the realms of the gods, realms of the gods that the gods create, which opens up a huge can of worms. It opens up this huge, huge can of worms because we have conflict between these ideas when it comes to Western society with the perpetual, endless heaven that a person gets into and never leaves versus the idea of many heavenly realms run by different gods and daevas that people gain merit and go into for a period of time, and then when that merit runs out, they have to leave and come back into some other sort of dimensional existence like the Earth that is a lower dimensional existence. And entities involved in all of that which are interested in moving people to these sort of realms when they die, or to guide them in life, it literally goes into these ideas about if you do comparative mythology where you have Odin and Freya who were gods of two different realms, and they would fight with each other over receiving certain warriors into their own realms, into their own heavenly kingdoms, into their own realms. Valhalla, and I can't remember what her realm was, but they would fight over each other. There's the idea of Ra and the eye of Ra where people weren't worshipping Ra enough to his liking. Instead, they were going to other temples and worshipping other gods. And so, Ra sent the eye out to scare them and kill them to get them afraid enough to come back to his temple to worship him. And this also goes back to the whole idea of Lush and how there's these realms where there are these other beings who are very interested in the harvesting of emotional energies and energies from humans for their own realms and for their own purposes. And so, literally, when you talk about remote viewing data on that, it goes down that huge, massive rabbit hole. Huge, huge rabbit hole. And when you get into that astral realm, into the astral world, you have many different locations, thought, intention-created locations. Because, okay, even this right now is a consistent thought creation. It takes longer for matter to form around the energy, but inevitably it does. This is why disease, for instance, in a human forms after a prolonged time of the person expressing, let's just say, a negative emotional response inside of themselves, right? They could be healthy at first, but then prolonged, there's an energy of negative emotion that begins to formulate in the physical. It begins to manifest in the physical. So, everything is preluded by intent and thought. Everything. And when you get into those realms, they're much looser where thought and intent can create things instantaneously and exist. And then you have a lot of people who are helping to create things instant, you know, create things over a long period of time that create aspects of these realms because it is endless. And you can go to them. Now, I don't know if he actually went to the so-called Christian heaven or not, but in my opinion, the Christian heaven is part of the David realms. I don't want to get attacked for that, but that's my opinion. It's part of the David realms of many gods who have continually fought over the focus and attention of humans. And Robert Monroe's Loosh is an aspect of that whole idea. So, the home concept, it felt very singular when he discussed it. Like, he went back to his own personal place. And I wonder about that concept. I think about that sometimes. Because whatever your belief system is, we're not necessarily getting into that here, but where was your soul before you came here is kind of the biggest existential question, right? Some people believe in reincarnation and the cycle of reincarnation. There are some people that don't believe that. But then the one question no one can answer is where your soul was before you came here. What is that belief? It's quite funny. It's really funny because before this, it was just black. All that you have, at least in your physical thinking memory, is empty space, black, and then all of a sudden, you're here. And then you're shown books and papers of definitions of what everything is, this and that and this and that. And then we get so involved in the idea of what things are, and we know what things are. Without a shadow of a doubt, we know what things are, while completely negating that blackness before we were born. And to me, that's the biggest thing that you have to understand. That is the biggest thing that you have to understand. And you're not going to find that in books. You're not going to find that in words. You're not going to find it on the internet. You're not going to understand it through words. You're going to understand it through experience. And that's where a lot of people fall short, is that we've become such an addictive society on an endorphin rush and get those dopamines flowing, that people are less apt to step out of that and to begin to explore something like that. What I find also so interesting about what you just said is, even with Robert Monroe's studies, the chemicals that are in people's brains, this entire branch that goes off and has experimented with psychedelics and different things like that, these are all potentially explained away through science. But what can't be explained away is why any of those experiments worked with Hal Puthoff and the locations, and actually being able to obtain information, non-local information that wasn't there, just by being given a bizarre series of numbers or a location, a longitude and a latitude, some coordinates. So while these things appear or can be manifesting chemical, there's also something very non-chemical going on when we have these interactions. And I feel like that is the mystery here. Don't you want to know that for yourself? It comes back to what you said, which is we can read as many books as we want, we can think that we know, we can be sure that we know through these things, but then why not experience some of that yourself as well? And that doesn't mean you're going to get attacked by goblins or something. I think that this is bigger than that. What is the other side? What are these spirit realms or these spiritual realms? What's behind them? And where do we really come from? 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