The Behavior Panel's Psychopath Files: 9 Case Wrap Ups.

This episode is kind of like a psychopath wrap-up, because what happened was this. We all didn't have time to get together to do an episode. Everybody's somewhere else. I just got back from somewhere else. I'm getting ready to leave again. So what we did was this. We took the wrap-ups of a bunch of psychopaths and put those together and made an episode out of it. Sadie did. I didn't do it. So take a look. Let us know what you think in the comments. I think this will be another good one. We'll start around the room and very quickly, 30 seconds or less, tell what we think about this case, or this guy, and then we'll wrap it up. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I would say there's a lot of calm around stuff, but then just go to that moment where he just starts laughing around the interference in the mortuary. All this talk that I slept with the dead ones or had sex with dead bodies. There is no truth to any of that. You didn't live in the mortuary. I lived in a mortuary, yes, but not in the embalming room. I mean, they make it sound like I slept in the crypts with them and I never climbed into a coffin or anything like that. That is so damn ridiculous. That's quite a big differential. I only point that out because those are the kind of big differentials that we're often looking for to go. Well, what's that about? Why be so calm here around dead people? And then why be laughing at these dead people over here? What's going on there? So great differential there. Chase. Yeah, I agree. I think this whole thing was just an example of a perfect storm of everything coming together that could possibly manufacture a psychopath all happening as it possibly could. And he becomes a horror movie level psychopath. In fact, they do make movies about him and that's really what we're seeing here. And I think he had a dissociative capacity that was present. So anybody most people that are have any kind of abuse in childhood become good at dissociating and removing themselves from events. And I think him just having that little bit of capacity made him use that as a defense in trial, but it was absolutely in my opinion, not the case. There was no dissociation. There was some alter ego. He named Jack. I think that was responsible for some of these crimes, which is not the case, but he used his capacity for dissociation as a defense. Greg. Yeah, Mark to your point when you say you wonder why he's doing this. I think because he needs to be admired for something and even if that is something horrific. He needs to be admired. That's reason he's willing to say I've done these but not these. I didn't sleep with dead people. I'm not a homosexual the things that he's drawn a line in his mind matter. He separates himself from and if you want evidence, he needs admiration met. Rosalyn Carter was tied up in politics was tightly tied to the Polish Festival drove that this. I think the clown thing was more about admiration than the other piece. So when I see that and I see the control pieces, yeah, whatever made him a psychopath. Thank God. They're not many of them like him because we know 33 people died as a result of him and he's gone out of lethal injection. But what a horrific story and you can see how calmly he talked about it. Just like I said with a cooking oil story. That's what he's doing and he rolled around in something. So he would look and smell like normal people and be able to pick up his victims. He says and some of it is verifiably not true. He didn't know any of these people was one of the guys who was working broom who came up missing which is what started all this thing. So, you know, he casually he's comfortable lying and arbitrarily altering the truth to fit him just so he can be admired Scott. What do you got? Yeah, I think this is a great example in my opinion of the psychopath the differences in a psychopath being born and one being creative how be creative. However, he's been creative the whole thing. You're right. It makes great movies that makes a fantastic movie and it's all set up. It's got the clown stuff the things that scares as a kid, even though it's supposed to make as happy as a kid as an adult cloud scares to death. So I think it's a great example of the juxtaposing the created one by the one that's born that way in my opinion. Let's start around the room and talk about what we think we've seen and wrap it up as quickly as we can and Mark. Why don't you go first? Yeah, I'll go back to it again. This isn't a simple Silence of the Lambs film. It's more complex. There's more going on here. He's trying to pretend it's super simple and he's crazy smart, but it's none of none of that. So lovely lovely to see some great stuff in there. Go back over it again. Take a look lots to learn out of this one chase. What do you think? Yeah, I think with the mom. This is a case of if I can't win your love, I'll win your submission and I think that's what we're seeing here with especially with that relationship and there's a writer named Margaret Atwood who wrote about this and I think she described the two-sided weirdness that we're seeing here pretty well. And I remember reading this in a book about confidence and discipline if I get the title, I'll put it in the description, but she said men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them. And I think that really speaks to some depths of this layer upon layer that Greg was talking about Greg and chase just sorry just to highlight that I ducked down like this because I have line of sight to her house right now. It's a cool thing. That is cool. She has bars on the window. So she's a little bit paranoid. Sorry Greg when you're a hammer when you hammer everything looks like a nail as they say, so yeah, we all have that reason. I check where when I see people on the side of the road, right? It's my nature. Yeah. So look this guy is a complex creature as you are you don't have any idea what your parent did when you were six years old because you not like green beans. Don't know anything can impact you. The difference is that at some point most of us go. Okay, hold on. How do I fix that broken piece of me? Some people just go to be full-blown broken toys. This guy did and if all you are is a broken toy your meaning goes away. You still got to be a broken toy. You still got to go and tell everybody what a broken toy you are somehow. I think that's what we're seeing here. I think this sloppy sincerity that he shows to get people listen to him is so he can do more of what he's always done. And that's still some kind of creepy fear or terror in people and I'm not a fan Scott. What do you got? I agree with you. I think we're seeing I think it's a great example of seeing a psychopath when they're watching them grow watch them go through life and the things that they do as they go through life when he was little he was he was mean to animals and he killed his grandparents later on. I guess. What was he 15 year old 15 years old or something like that? Yeah, then he gets so he gets out of prison and then that behavior can take welded for a little while then that behavior continued. I think we're seeing someone who had outburst of rage and that's when he killed his mother because he talks about rage. He talks about angry. He talks about these pent-up things that happen before he kills these people. I think that's what it was. Yeah. I'm sure he hated his mom. I'm sure you hated everybody anybody that had anything to do with brushing up against that ego like you do with psychopath and they will get you back. So you have to be real careful with that when you if you spot one or are aware that someone is one and like I said before, I'm not a psychologist don't have PhD and that none of us do but from what I've read and from what I understand that would be my opinion only that this guy's a psychopath and that's what we're seeing. I think she hit that ego and she said she was going to tell on him and I think he killed her at that point. The mainstream media is not broken at all. It is functioning exactly as it was designed. It exists to manipulate you to divide you to feed you fear and outrage and distraction while pretending all of that is information and most people are still swallowing it like it's gospel. I've spent years studying propaganda and psychological operations and human behavior and I will tell you this plainly the media is not here to tell you the truth. It's here to shape your truth without you even realizing it every network every outlet left or right or Center. They are all playing the exact same game. Keep you emotionally hijacked cognitively blind and addicted to narratives engineered by people who have zero interest in informing you at all. So they manufacture a bunch of division. They amplify lies and they bury stories that threaten their control. This is not journalism. This is mass psychological warfare. This is why we use ground news. It is not just a news app. It is a tactical weapon for seeing through all this fog ground news pulls in all these stories from every source whether it's liberal or conservative or state-run corporate owned billionaire owned and they show you these biases and the ownership of who owns the outlet that wrote that article the spin and then finally my favorite is what is being left out of that article, you know, I always talk about let's look for what's missing. They do that at ground news. So you're going to watch these narratives fracture in real time. You're going to be able to spot manipulation like it is lit up in neon and once you see how disgustingly coordinated all this stuff is you're not going to be able to unsee it the behavior panel never really partners with very many brands, but ground news is way different. It puts the power back into people's hands instead of the news. So go to ground.news.tbp scan the QR code or hit the link in the description. We've got you 40% off of the same plan that we use. So don't keep trusting the people reading scripts for billionaires stop being programmed and start seeing the depth of what is actually going on. Since we're talking about psychopaths and psychopathy, let's go through a couple things people can go look for when it comes to psychopaths. There's a guy named Robert Hare, Robert D Hare. He's got a book called Without Conscience read that book or listen to that book that tells you everything. There's a guy named John Ronson. He's a writer, but he does this TEDx talk or a TEDx talk that is just fascinating. It's really good. I give you a heads up give you even deeper understanding of the psychopath test and that's what his thing is called the psychopath test or something about something. Just look up John Ronson psychopath test for a TEDx talk or a TED talk. Fascinating, really, really good explains it really, really well and tells about his experiences in that world. Also, so Jay or I was going to go the Jason Bourne thing again. So Chase, what is the who do you use for your main person when you're building the theme? Who do you go back to the same person every time? Do you have your like, for example, when I go and I start the theme I go into Andrew Connor my old roommate from Boston where I live there in college and I start out. Well, this reminds me of my roommate Andrew. He did in other words. He did something like this. It's kind of like what you David got away with it. And I don't know, you know, I was surprised at that. And so I go through that. Do you have a guy and Greg? Do you have a guy? Yeah, I'll go really quick. I have some tricks that I use around this. Okay, we're more likely I'll have some that I won't share but we're more likely to associate and identify with people whose first name starts with the same sound or letter as our own. So if I'm talking to you Scott, I tell you about my friend Steven. I'm talking to Greg. I'm say it. I've got a friend Gary who does whatever and Mark. I've got a friend named Matt who did XYZ. So my theme person will be okay. Great. What do you who's yours? Like that? I don't start that way. What I start with is what who they remind me of because I can bake that pretty quickly, right? If there's some attribute where there's physical like if a guy is very very fit and I'm going to go that way and go with somebody I know there so I don't have a single person. I have genotype if you will, you know, and if you see enough people all of us put people in those boxes and so I got five or six folks that I love. Okay, cool. Cool. All right. So there it is again. If you like what we're doing go ahead and subscribe and you'll know we have a show come out. They'll let you know and hit that little bell down there. I want you to subscribe so it'll send you a little alert when you do that and is anybody else got anything you want to add? We're good to go. Oh, I will add one thing. You know what? We've been talking a lot about psychopaths. The reality is is that one at the level of Ramirez is so rare. You're really never going to meet one. So sleep. Well, it's going to be okay. They're rarer than entertainment would have you think and they're not all violent. Many of them just have messy lives. That's yeah. Yeah, completely throw around the room and and everybody say what they think is happening here and start with Mark Chase Greg and I'll wrap it up. Yeah, nothing to look at here. It's just quite extreme. Just quite extreme. It's a little bit self-explanatory. I think you don't need to know what I think about it. You need to know what you think about it and and how you going to react if you, you know, see any of those is the chicken come Scott. Yeah, chicken come. Sorry, man. I mean, don't let me don't let me don't let me get away. I'm so sorry. Don't let me get in the way. I'll be doing all right. You've only got a genius in the room. That's all. It's all right. I'm sorry, you know, it's hot chicken Tuesday. No, I mean, you know, running late problem, you know, I can't compete with the chicken chase. What do you go? This is a great example of a person who I'm going back to it is deeply affected and learned to live through television because there's a lack of friends a lack of social development. So Perry Mason the murder. She wrote the Columbo's. Maybe she didn't watch Columbo. She might have done a good job. But a lot of those TV shows were hearing those weird one-liners that sound like script writing and it's great and this last video is a wonderful example of how effective statements are versus questions because they didn't really ask her about what she was talking about at all that and that's all that information came from that. So it's a great video great for training Greg. What do you got? Yeah, this is not a normal human being but has the capability to make children children are so easy to conceive and use that capability to the detriment of those children four times and saw them as nothing more than toys guys. She's in the right place even if to stop her from making more babies and that was the only reason you put her away. That's the right answer. This person showed no remorse show glib and superficial behavior. We can run down the list and check all those off. But hair already did it for us when he put us he put her in the book on page four between Ramirez and Bundy good good location Scott. What do you got? All right. I really like this one because it gets the it's it's not a classic narcissist because this is so overdone. It's it's like one all wound up on 10. It's a great example of one and there were 11 that she covered in this 11 right out of the 11 items from the the hair psychopathy checklist. Let's go down real quick. We had shallow effect affect Danny cried the whole way I could hear him softly just moaning and Christie was dying the couch lack of empathy lack of remorse or guilt grandiose self grandiose sense of self. Why would I have taken my kids to the hospital? Wouldn't I have made sure they were dead and then cried crocodile tears. That's insane to think that I would do such a thing and then bring the witnesses in against myself. That's crazy live in superficial charm promiscuous behavior. I had 10 separate lovers two years. That's not very many need for stimulation because he's bored irresponsibility pathological lying impulse being impulsive and many short-term relationships and that's 11 out of the 20 that are on there. And again, there'll be a link in the bottom down here. If you want to go find out what the rest of those are and how they work into the psychopathy checklist. All right. Now we've left a little something for you here at the end little gift and it's you watch it and you tell us in the comments what you think is going on here and we'll check it out. We actually do get into the comments and read those. So we'll get a look at that. You did not commit these murders or the murder and the other crimes you were convicted of. Absolutely. I didn't commit them and I still maintain my innocence somebody in the road flagged us down. I stopped and got out of the got out of my car. And he said something to the effect of I want your car and I laughed at him and I said you've got to be kidding because in my mind those kinds of things don't happen in Arizona. Those things don't happen. I don't know about Oregon, but in Arizona those things don't happen. And so he jumped into the car leaned into the car and started firing the weapon and it happened so quickly that by the time He stood up and faced me. It was over. I mean it was just that fast. I he said something about the car again and I struggled with him the gun discharged. He fell back. I jumped in the car put the keys in the ignition and took off the car door shut by itself. That's it. And I went to the hospital Christie and Dan Christie and Danny were in the backseat when we got to the hospital. They were still crying. The nurses reported that they were still crying the state says I that I was the one that shot them and that I wanted them dead if that was the case. I would not have taken to the hospital still crying. There are so many other ways to accomplish such a horrific deed if I was going to do it. I'm certainly bright enough to figure out another way besides some way that looks so absolutely insane and hokey that nobody would believe it. I'm not dumb. Well, let's throw around the room and talk about what we think we've seen here and 30 seconds or less mark. What do you got? Yeah, I didn't know what I was going to get with Bundy never seen him before had a bit of an understanding of his legend never seen him on TV being interviewed. I expected something of what I saw that I never expected Dobson. So it's been fantastic for me because I just didn't expect to see that that was a lesson for me. Chase. What do you got? Yeah, this was a person being fake with a person helping them be fake so that they could be more fake to help the other person be more fake so that they could sell more fake to human beings. It was a person passing a yo-yo back and forth with more spin being put on it back and forth. I'm disgusted more by the interviewer with the Bundy. Yeah guys, whatever the cause behind it, whatever. This is one of those rare chances for us to see a psychopath being a psychopath not being able to show emotion but being able to work and do everything that you need to get across the message that they think you want to hear so they can get you to wherever they need you to be. No, does that mean all psychopaths are violent killers? No, there are lots of people who have psychopathy who live normal lives, but these serial killers use all of those same skills to lure people in this guy was all kinds of sick. There's all kinds of things wrong with him. He confessed to 30 murders who knows how many others and God knows what else he did to people along the way. This is a horrible end to a horrible situation, but he's gone. That's a good thing. I think there's a value to you watching this video and learning how people work you because if you project onto them goodness and light you're going to get it reflected right back at you using your words Scott. What do you got? I agree. I think it's a great example of being able to watch the Psycho like you just said watch a psychopath be a psychopath. It's like putting one in a jar and just sitting there watching her for a while and see what and putting your rights the spider-in-the-fly situation. Just put them both in a jar and see what happens and that's what happens. It was excellent is a great study. I think a great study. I think no matter where Ted Bundy is right now, you know, what did happen to him in the end? You know, we knew he's he's gone now, but I'm sure he's looking up at us right now and saying hey behavior panel. You nailed it. Data's, you know, what what I meant a second ago. I just want to clarify one of them didn't have a choice whether or not to feel any emotion and the other one did. Yeah, excellent. All right. We've been watching psychopath in play or what we believe to be a psychopath Mark has a different Outlook. So why can't you tell us what you think you've seen so far as we go around say what we see? Well, I've loved in, you know, dismantling the the idea of psychopath and bringing down that power structure there in a very postmodern way while explaining to the extent that I can postmodernism which is very meta in itself. So it was a postmodern act in of itself, you know, how tedious is that about as tedious as this guy is I would hope it's a pretty tedious interview because he ducks and waves as dismantles and can't you can't get any sense of feeling or thought or real Humanity in there because you know, it's hard to find any Humanity in there. At least some postmodernism does actually have a beautiful germ of Humanity in it and and he doesn't but not to dehumanize him because that would be you know, what he did chase. What do you got in this one? I bet that he thought this interview went really well. I bet he laid down in his bed that night was like man. I got him. I bet nailed it. This is a portrait of not just a psycho. I think it's a mirror to our maybe our societal fascinations and I think this really shines a light on how this mental disconnect in psychopathy is more likely to be glamorized than understood in the realm of crime. And I think it's still fascinating to me how this kind of sickness can be so transparent to people who interact with them every day that is fascinating and when it comes to the media and and what we see on TV, I want you to remember this while you're watching none of us us included are immune to being influenced none of us and with this in mind, I want you to just write this one thing down no matter where you're watching this as long as you're not driving and keep looking at it for a month when you see social media or even the news. I want you to write this one question down. What is being normalized in front of my eyes or my kids eyes right now while they're watching whatever a fish tastes like what it swims and I say it all the time and this kid whatever whatever age this person started to develop the way he developed fed the wrong side of the equation kept feeding all this dark stuff and you'll even go if you read his story, you'll see saw some movie that gave him the idea of keeping these people hostage captive and tortured in his house. If you are around a person who is doing that who is feeding the wrong animal you need to interrupt that young because if they don't look we all know there's a lot of people with poorly formed amygdala that don't grow up to kill people that don't grow into horrific acts, but if they're feeding that side, that's what you get and if they have no idea what the lines on the paper are for and they're coloring outside and they're feeding it now, you've got a recipe for absolute disaster. And I think what we're seeing here nature nurture and a lack of any kind of control and we come up with this Scott. What do you got? I'd like to say what I think about this in a body language gesture or an emblem. I think we'll sum up my whole thing with this guy and the psychopathic behavior. We've seen ready. Let's wrap it up in 30 seconds or less and see what we think or take 30 seconds longer. If you want Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I don't like Dharma. I think I like the father even less though. That's just that's just me Chase. What do you think? Yeah, so psychopath is just an idea. It's not necessarily a medical term and when somebody says they're pleading insanity. The word insane is a legal term and not a medical or psychological term. It's a legal standard. So it's another it's a those are concept buckets of particular behavior. We just have a person who's severely screwed up. We don't need to put a huge label on it. But this is just one for the books because this is such a departure from from normal when it comes to these types of offenders Greg. Yeah, all humans are a complex chemical soup, whatever you get exposed to when you're 2 and 4 and 9 and 15 and 50 and 60 changes who you are at the young said two people interacting are like reagents are never the same. So every one of those interactions is going to matter if you don't take care of your kids. If you don't pay attention to them when they start doing something aberrant and you're not paying attention, it gets rewarded. And by the way rewards not always. Hey Johnny, good job. It might be something darker than that. So we don't know what causes these people if we did we could go and say hey stop doing that and you won't make this and there's biology. There's nurture. There's everything that happens after that. So who knows but this is a really interesting one to me because I've never watched him because it is such a creepy story. But when you do watch him, it's also a very interesting story Scott. What do you got? I think this might be my favorite so far of the shows we've done because we're seeing how much we enjoy dealing with psychopaths and going. Ah, here's why person is a psychopath and here's the things and so look out for that. This was cases man. This guy doesn't show those. However, he is he's got that one thing going wrong with him over there. Wow. So I think I think that's fascinating. I think it's probably my favorite. We're seeing one thing or saying and everybody's going to think he is and over here. It says not not showing anything. He shows. Yes, but now his dad that makes me wonder how bad it got at home. Because for someone you're right mark that whole I'm going to write a book about all that. Yeah, I'll write a book and call him up. We'll go on. We'll have him on the show. It's all about the dad, but it didn't end up being about the dad. That's why he's trying to jump in and make it about himself. I think wow, I think that's where the that there was a movie about it. I haven't seen that but I think that's where the movie would be about the dad at this point and there's another one coming out on Netflix here in a couple of months. That's boy. That's all taped interviews with Dahmer. So it's a big good one for you. All right. Well, let's throw it in the room and we'll talk about 30 seconds or less what we think is happening here and give our opinions on it. We'll start with Mark go to chase and Greg then I'll wrap it up mark. Yeah, if you meet somebody else like this, don't give them control of anything very particularly important or especially people's lives or any kind of bureaucratic system whereby they could affect people's lives for all the reasons that you've heard about throughout this whole thing. She is excessively bad news a little bit more than many of the other people who we've come across. It's just good news that she didn't have a great deal of power else. We could be looking at a real real massive catastrophe here chase the one thing that you've got in common with her and we all do is that we make stories in childhood and then we tend sometimes in a bad way to make those stories come true into our adulthood. So we're going to ask yourself. What did I experience that? I unknowingly made into this Luke story. And if we have these they become these self-fulfilling prophecies that are way back in the unconscious. We were not aware of them. So ask yourself the question your homework as a panelist. What have I repeated to myself over and over that actually turns out to be true all the time. What do I say to myself all the time? It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and we can start to identify some of those things. It can really help us to grow Greg. Yeah guys, I'm taking nothing away from the horror that made this person that created this person because she came from a family where her mother left her with her parents with her grandparents grandparents were alcoholics and abusive and then it went worse and worse and worse from there. All of that said there's still seven people who were killed by this woman who she's convicted of killing at least as far as we know could be more could be less what I see here is this person who is wrapped to your point Chase. We all start with that little kernel and we just keep layering and layering and layering and she learned to be successful in a very horrible environment and what it led to is a horrible thing what we see here Mark to your point all of the you can't there's an old saying in the South that's like putting lipstick on a pig. This is putting lipstick on a pig. You're trying to fix something you can't fix. Well at the end they fix the problem and they're going to be people who hate us for saying that she's evil. She did this she did that but she killed seven people. She ended up getting put to death for it. This is a horrible case. I don't think there's anything good to come out of it, but I do see a hell of a lot of deception Scott. What do you got? All right. I think this might be one of my favorite ones because we're seeing the example of not just a straight-up psychopath. We're seeing one that's that looks to me like is a psychopath that's been nurtured. We talked about the difference in nature versus nurture earlier the nature version is the kind that's born something's wrong their amygdala something's wrong with their brain and they're not it doesn't function correctly in this case. I think she was probably beat up a lot as a kid probably a lot as a kid had some big problems with her family. Nobody nurtured those feelings of sympathy and empathy, especially empathy as we go through this you go if you pay attention to what she's saying and when she looks like she's smiling when she looks like she's sad or whatever the only real emotion we're seeing is the anger here. I believe she may feel a bit light-hearted when she talks about a girlfriend. I don't know but it's it's that's a that's a tough call there, but I think it's great because we can see the differences in and the two in the nature versus nurture. All right, Mark, how things look for you so far. It's interesting because if you look at those medallions that he's wearing and you take out, you know, the the popularist idea, which is not untrue that they have a a satanic element to them. I'm sure that's why he's wearing them. You could interpret them as the sense of power over yourself and your emotions through self-knowledge and I think that's the gambit. He's playing he's going. I really know myself now and because I know myself I would have power over myself. So I would never hurt anybody. I now know that that's utter nonsense. It appears is bang on. There's another way of looking at it. Of course, which is that you have exactly the same strong feelings towards Phoenix as the ones you articulated you had towards Ella and there will be people there are people who say to your mother, what are you thinking having Paris having any kind of relationship with Phoenix given what he did and if Paris was released, would you not live in abject terror that that dark side that you've said is still there but that which you can control might not again explode with anger about your mother. Whatever. So I know you don't you're absolutely trying to play your audience. We've seen you coming IQ of 141. Well, it's not an IQ of stealth like you're not you're not so smart that you're coming enough undercover that it's not obvious what you're doing. I think Piers was very kind to him. I mean made a great show because he was kind to him, you know, kind in terms of allowing him to drip out this arrogance that he's being set stealthy with his argument. He's a complete idiot chase. What do you got on this? There's not a lot of selling and false perfection as I expected watching this this morning of sitting down at the desk not a lot of this. I expected it and there's also he's not selling us on the idea of him being fully free of psychopathy and like so much better and he's also not like playing up the I'm a murderer card like we see some psychopaths do but there's still lots and lots of leakage and psychopaths are not immune to leaking out truth accidentally, which we've seen in this video for sure. I think there's a good chance in my opinion. He will be dangerous if he's released, but I'm still shocked that he was open about parts of that and I'm wondering if he's comfortable with those parts being open the part that's hidden must be pretty bad Greg. I'm with you chase. Whatever is hiding deep inside. There is got to be terrific. I don't know what's going on. But what I can tell you is he doesn't know what normal is the whole concept of penitentiary is about penance. It's about making someone better and the way you get out of there is that they believe that you have become a better person or that you have whatever it is. Well, you don't typically flaunt society standards by coming out and wearing all that stuff. He's wearing so that tells me he probably is not aware or there's some other reason to your point Mark. He's trying to you know, do some kind of Maslow thing there, but either way it doesn't come across that way and it's also a great example of you can be a psychopath and intelligent, which is both and not be a mastermind. Everybody's afraid of them like there's some kind of you know, mastermind and you say this all the time all the time Scott. They're an intra-species predator and they're just like any other predator. They're going after whatever that is. Now. We don't know enough about him to know whether he would have murdered other people. Thank God. We don't know they caught him at that time. It's an unfortunate thing. This little girl had to lose her life. But if I were choosing and I were on a parole board, I'd be like nope. Don't think so next Scott. What do you get? Yeah, I agree with you. I think this is great because we saw a classic cues that tell us this guy's a psychopath. You got to see somebody who's a psychopath being asked about feelings about love over and over. What were your feelings towards her as her brother her older brother? I could sit here and talk all day about my feelings for my sister. A description of my feelings isn't something that I can give you. I think Pierce did a great job with this because he was being aggressive and I guess it's because he's not a pretty guy coming coming across the table at it because there's no table. It's just a big thing of what it plexiglass and bars so you can say anything he wants to but I think he did a great job at that and I think it's if you want to see a psychopath again, go back and watch this stuff again skip over that part where I thought I knew everything about what he knew and then but the rest of it's really good. So there you have it the psychopath wrap-up my favorite out of all that Ed Kemper, you know who else's favorite that was Coburger. Yeah, they found out he was watching our shows in the Ed Kemper episode. He watched two or three times. So there's that info for you. All right. Thanks. There's no good and we'll see you next time.