Only Archery 🤓 Allowed to Watch This!

This is the guy. Guys, welcome to the channel. Pro archery ballistics. It's an app that's the creator. His name's Lucas Palmer. He's in North Idaho, bro. We have him here in studio today. We are gonna break down how his app works and we're gonna just build a new sight tape and bring you along. Let's go. I added lighted nocks. I shot these three arrows and I'm gonna go through them real quick. And I was just kind of like group testing. 460, 465, and 460. This one is typically what I lean into. These hybrid HPs, this taller profile. The veins are light. Not a lot of weight in the back. Pretty significant offset or helical of six degrees. Arrow spins the second it leaves to the second it hits what it's hitting. I don't get parachuting. I can prove it with slow-mo footage. And I get compliments about, hey, your arrow flight's awesome, though. It's because this bow's tuned and this is just what it likes. So all that is to say, I go up just 10 grains and my sight marks are pretty accurate out to about 95. Then I went to 109 on an antelope. It's a small 3D target. Dialed the 109. Put it in the dirt. You gotta reshoot it, right? Maybe I screwed up. Put the next one right next to it in the dirt. I was like, son of a bitch. So then I slid down to 112. Hit low but missed the target still. Barely. Then I finally dialed the 116 and drilled the 11 ring. And I was like, okay, 116 is now 109 because I bumped up 10 to 15 grains. So it rears its ugly head on distances I wouldn't shoot animals at while hunting, but let's be real. 3D seasons, follow-ups, tack, that kind of thing. So Bodie Turner and I have both kind of argued a little bit, but it's tough to argue against him. He believes in making your own sight marks past 100. He doesn't trust any sight tape manufacturer. And you have, I have friends with Tristan at Precision Cut Archery. Great. But you also have a solution that might be different than Archer's Advantage. Tristan's in, what's that other one I have on my phone? Archer's Mark. Yeah. So let's talk about yours. I don't know that they do sight tapes. Yeah. Yeah, let's get into it. Let's talk about yours today. I guess let's build a sight tape. Sure. And you are a mechanical engineer. Yep, mechanical engineer. I've worked in the industry for, oh, I don't know, 10, 15 years, a variety of different positions. Right now, I'm primarily focused on patent law, actually, of all things. So I'm looking at new designs every day. Yeah. So that's kind of my day in and day out. But yeah, so you had a drop. Now it was the exact same shaft, right? Same weight other than the knock. That was the only change, right? 15 grains, same fletchings. So that means the only difference we're talking about is a weight difference and a knock change. Yep. Right, there is a little bit of variance you can get with knocks. Off the back, they might drag a little different, depending on their shape. So there could be even a factor there. But how we would do this with the app, of course, we can build it walking through here. And then we're gonna measure the outside diameter of this. So we have 0.234, 0.345, 0.35. I'd call it 0.235. This is 458. 458, okay. With the lighted knock. Okay. 291.9. 291.2. I'm in the app right now. Build name, X10. Velocity, 291. 291. Okay. Grains, 458. Yep. Outside diameter was 0.235. 235, yep. We just did that with a micrometer. And then total arrow length. So for the drag model here for sight tapes, you don't need to worry about this. This will come into play for cross wind in your shoot for calculator, which we'll talk about a little later. Okay, so leave it at nothing? Yep, that's fine. Just some value. Okay, number of fletching three. Fletching length? Was 2.05. And height of the fletch? 0.535. And fletching angle is six degrees? Yep. Okay. All right, so you have that all filled out? Yep. And now we can go to the sight tape page on the bottom. We'll wanna make sure that we selected the build that you were on, which I believe was build one. Let's just make sure. Build one. And then there you go. So then we'll need to get our sight radius and our arrow to peak measurement. Okay. And then we'll have our sight tape on screen here. There is one thing that we wanna do is we wanna measure this one inch scale that's on screen here. Okay. That way this will be a true to scale representation of your sight tape. Why I included that is because if you don't wanna print one off, you can just go to your booklet that your sight comes with, line it up and say, there's my sight tape. I'd love that. I wouldn't mind doing that because I have a booklet of cute, pretty ones from UV, even though it's not a UV site. I like their sight tapes. Yeah. Okay, so let's throw the bow in a draw board. You could also have a buddy do this for you as well, but... Draw board is definitely the safest way to do it. You must really trust your friends to do it otherwise. I'm looking at three and three quarter. Okay. Does that look about right to you? Yep. Three and three quarter. So we'll write that down. And then your next one is your pin to peep. Perfect. So we'll go, I'm assuming top pin. Yep. Put this down in here. Check. All right. And then I'm looking up here. I got 27 and three quarter, almost on the money. We might be a 16th over that, but that'll be fine. 27 and three quarter. 27.75. Yep. And 3.75. It's gonna be right up over here. Yep. Okay. And then the next one. So I'll be scrolled down there so we can see the... So what I like to do is I like to lay this across the screen here. All right. So I'm looking at it here and I noticed that... My thumb in the way. I noticed that our scale is a little short on the phone. So I want to increase this number here. So it's pretty sensitive. I went up to 154. That's actually what I'm using on my phone or 153. So I kind of knew probably where to put it. And now I'm looking at three marks. The center is half and then one inch on each side total, right? So we have nine to 10 and I want the half mark to look up. That actually might be a little big. Yeah, maybe 153. 153. Now the big reason to do this is so that the on-screen sight tape is to scale correctly. The printing, it doesn't care about that. Okay. For Apple only. Android, it does matter. Just kind of a difference of apps there, so. So are you saying Apple's better? I can't confirm or deny that, but yes. They're gonna make some people mad. I don't care what phone people have, but I only know iPhones. The only reason I like iPhones is to be able to FaceTime and AirDrop in my line of work. So should I grab my book of sight tapes? Let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Lock that down. Yep. Seven. Y'all see that? Did we get that in here? I think we got it. Okay. So we know that that's not an accurate sight tape. Right. So that was a little bit too fast of a speed, right? Cause you were dropping low. Dropping low. So let's see what the app came in here and is telling you. So one thing you can do. I'm going handheld folks. Is you could do something like this. All right. So that is saying my tape is faster. And the other thing here. I like being able to do this on the phone. Yeah. I mean, it really does make a difference than trying to print and do this. So I'm right in between these two tapes, but do I match your current one? Let's see. So I did a measurement. It was 20 to 80. Yep. Let's see. Your 80 is my 79. Okay. What is your 109? Okay, let's see. To my 109. Cause that's where I saw the difference. You were dropping, right? Yep. Okay, let's go to yours. I'll try to do this on here actually. Does that look like 109 to you? Yes. Now you were 113 you said? 116 for 109. Nope. We're at 110. So we're about a yard off. So what does that mean? That means your drag is just a little bit more than what I have built in here. Okay. So we're not changing velocity, aero mass. That stuff's true. That's what it is. But we'll go to our advanced page. Should we screen record this part? Yeah, let's do that. Why not? And you're like, look, I know I'm dropping a little bit low at that distance. We're gonna come in here. There's one thing we forgot to do. That on my part. We didn't set our sight intensity. Oh yeah, the altitude. So maybe we should check that. So there's a couple ways to do this. I have elevation built in in feet. You can just enter a number in here. What are we like 3000 here in Spokane? Not even. No? 2000. 2000, wow. Probably not even that. So we can do that. That'll give you an average density at that elevation. The more accurate way is if you click the ambient input conditions here, it'll have an allow here. What this does, there's a sensor in every phone that is a pressure sensor. No ----. So this is cool. You're allowing me to take readings from a sensor in your phone. That's what that permission is for. Now you see a value right here bouncing around. This is actively measuring the absolute pressure right now. What? So we can do 95, and this likes to bounce a little bit because of the constant measuring. 95, zero, six, nine is kind of the constant. And then current temperature and dew point temperature that follows in with what is the humidity outside? Easiest way to do that, if you have a ballistics device, like an anemometer that might read that, you can do that. Or if you have service, you can go to your weather app here. And we're in green acres now. Temperature is 43 degrees. Go here, 43. Dew point, we'll go down to humidity. And it'll say right under humidity, it says our dew point's 34 degrees. Now, the reason I chose dew point over humidity, your dew point temperature throughout the day is very consistent. The temperature of today might fluctuate 10, 15, 20 degrees, but your dew point temperature remains pretty constant. So what this allows us to do is you set that in the morning, and it'll be pretty constant from there. So once you do that, we're gonna calculate density. And then we'll hit the button underneath. So we are just above sea level in terms of density. I only know that from experience, but we're at the density of 0.7376, and that's pounds per cubic foot if you're interested. So that's where we're gonna set the density at. So now that we've adjusted for density, we might see where the sight tape is. I think it's still gonna be a little on the fast side. Oh, we got a little closer. So your 109 right now is measuring like 108. So you would, we're about a yard. Mine is telling you a yard, you dial a yard longer. But you were almost 10. Oh yeah, it was about seven yards I had to add. Seven yards, okay. And that could have been the conditions yesterday. Could have been, yeah. It was weird. It was cloudy, it was foggy. Any wind in your face or at your back? Predominantly in your face. I had a slight five mile an hour from left to right. Left to right, okay. That will affect slightly, but not enough that I would care about. What I'm gonna do from there is I'm gonna come in here because we know Dan's a good shot. We're gonna adjust our drag coefficient. 1.6 is a fantastic starting place for most people. I'm gonna go up to 1.7, and we're gonna load that in. Change it, it's automatically gonna factor in here. And we know his 109, so that 1.7 gained us a couple yards. So we're gonna be a little bit more. Let's see. His large, I'm gonna put 2.6. Now there's two numbers in the app here that I actually have set up top, 1.6 and 2.6. 2.6 is the transition to turbulent flow of an aero shaft. We're gonna get real nerdy here for a second. Stay with me. This can happen for a number of reasons. One of them, which Dan likes to run here, is high helical. Okay, this can cause turbulent flow in the shaft. Not necessarily a bad thing. It's just more drag, a lot of times more stable, and I think that's what you like. So we're gonna go right to 2.6 and see, is that where we're coming in at? So now, yep, we've gained about six yards. So that's pretty close. You said you were off eight? Six or seven yards. Six or seven yards, okay. So I would assume that your high helical on the drag there is probably creating a 2.6 drag coefficient. What's great is now you know that most of the time when you're gonna run that high of a helical, always just factor in that you're probably gonna use a 2.6 on this number. This number is gonna fluctuate between 1.6 and about three as long as your bow is tuned. If your arrow's coming out sideways, it can be more than that. What if I was running something more like this? It'll be 1.6. Because that's about what I run. Okay, this is about a three degree offset, as you can tell, to the left, and these are 26s, so I don't know the height you would, but you've been running this vein? Similar, the max, which is the same as that area. So I ran maxes, maxes don't like a big helical. I would just get the parachuting, the long range shots, and I don't see that in the hybrid HPs. Now, I have blank shafts. I'm building an arrow, I'm moving today. It's a new, and I'm gonna go ahead and leak it right now. So I'm building, hopping this screen here, so I'm building a five vein, two to three offset to the left to match my clock. Small, but five, so I'll be busting out the bits, because I'm going to be testing a glue-in by Evolution Outdoors that I have. All right, Mechanical Engineer, correct me if I'm wrong. Wind drift? I'm not kidding. Like, with a four mil, it is, I don't have to worry as much about wind drift. It's significant. Thank you, thank you. Not only that, I mean, you're talking about running four mil because that crosswind, and now you're talking about going to a smaller vein. I mean, what does the wind see most? Yeah. So, I think if it corrects well for you, I think you'll be very happy with that combination. What coefficient would I run with that? So, with the smaller, so how many, what degree? Three degrees. I would start with 1.6. If you find, if you find you're getting off, and again, we're talking six yards at 100, and you know, you were shooting 109, you had to dial to 116, I think it was, right? So, we're not talking, if you're under 60 yards, you're never going to probably notice. Okay. For one, right? It's out there further distances that you're going to have to worry about it. And if you're accurate to test those ranges, do it. Okay. For most people, you'll probably be fine. Oh, well, I'll be honest, guys. There are some days where I have no business relying on my performance at 109 yards. I'm just having a shitty day. Absolutely. I'm inconsistent, I'm torquing, or I'm gripping wrong, or I'm just, that day, I honestly felt pretty good. There wasn't a lot of wind, and the pin was just burying where I wanted it, which is what I always want. So, that never really happened on an animal. I agree. I've tried to factor in as much, the ability to change as much as you want in the app for the guys that can notice a difference, right? Drag coefficient is one of the great ones, because 1.6 might be great. If, you know, smaller arrow, stuff like that, but you start running a high helical, target shafts that are really big, other things like that, you're gonna bump up that drag coefficient. So, the ability to customize it so that you do have a sight tape that's valid at every distance is critical, and you can't just change the velocity. That's not the same thing. You can't just increase or decrease your arrow mass from what it is. Or, if you have a sight tape that you know is 100% dialed, and you've built it with the app, we have this other page here. It's called the Shoot 4 Calculator. So, what this does, we're gonna be distant marks. Let me screen record here. I think you're gonna like this. So, three, two, one. All right, because the device already knows what your sight end density is and what your original sight tape is, this density, when calculated from here, is only gonna apply to the Shoot 4 page. Now, what is this for? You enter line of sight, shot angle, wind speed, wind direction. And uphill or downhill. And it's gonna tell you what distance to dial for. So, like, when Bodie is shooting and the other guy's shooting, I could be over here on my phone going, tuk-a-tuk-a-tuk-a-tuk. You could, yeah, you absolutely. You'd be like, okay, I didn't change my sight tape because I knew that was really good. I don't really want to change sight tape, right? Right, well, and the problem is, is like, okay, is it 100% accurate there, or is it just a little off? Yes, usually on uphills. And then, how much elevation do you change that day? Oh, so much. So, you know, you might change 3,000 feet. For real, easily. So, okay, that's a big density change difference. 3,000 feet of elevation could be, at 100 yards, could be three, four yards. So, it sounds like you kind of took a little bit of Tristan's, like, precision cut, and you took a little bit of Archer's mark. And I love all those guys. And a little, oh, Archer's Advantage. Yeah. And you kind of, yours looks pretty user-friendly. Now, I haven't tested it without you here, holding my hand. Yep. So, I gotta do that for a while. Absolutely. But, damn. All right, let's go podcast. Guys, what do you think about this video? Are you gonna go try this? Are you just gonna get grandfathered in at 4.99? I would do that. You're a genius. You're a really sharp cook. And just to clarify, the name is Pro Archery Ballistics. If you're looking for it, App Store or Google Play, it's on either of those. What we brought today is a label printer. Now, these, I think I paid 18 bucks on Amazon. Real cheap. Ooh. They've got an app. Ooh, okay. What this uses is a continuous label. Oh, yeah, show the people. That's pretty slick. So, inside here, we've got a continuous label that'll print out a strand. So, I don't know, I've printed dozens of labels with, or of sight tapes with this, and I'm still running on the first one. Oh, damn. Very cheap, economical. It has its own app. I'm not affiliated with the brand. You don't have to be cutting out printer paper. No, it also has adhesion on it. That's what I'm talking about. So, it's already sticky. And kind of weatherproof? Yeah, so it's the same as like you'd use a sticker paper or these sight tape papers. A lot of these, this is nothing different than label paper. Wow. Dan's arrow, we checked. Make sure that our density is set with the ambient conditions here. So, it is. We've got our sight radius at 27.75, our arrow to peep at 3.75, 153 on the scale adjustment. Any particular colors you want? Wow. This prints black and white only, but that is an option there. Cool. Do you want a five-yard mark? Oh, yeah. Okay, so we're gonna leave a five-yard mark on, and we're gonna click the print here. We'll go to markup because we're gonna print on this guy. And then what we do from here is we are going to, so the app creates a PDF in the Apple version. Yep. We need an image to print. Okay. So, I'm just gonna take a screenshot here. Accidentally marked on the screen, but that's all right. We're gonna cut that section off. All right, I'm seeing black on both sides. It's just right there. Okay, we'll hit done, and we'll see if that gets us a little closer. Picture, make sure it's black and white. All right, let's give that a whirl and see if that's a little better. There we go, I see black on both sides now. Should be a little closer. Let's cut that out. And what's great about this paper is it's split down the middle. Oh, yay. So you just peel. So now that's half of it's unstuck. That's nice. I would suggest, then put it on your rail. Nailed it. Right there. So a little bit of black showing on both sides, and it should be pretty good. So, that's your difference right there. Already adhesive. Like I said, you'll fold that down the middle. Thank you, sir. And let me know what you think from there. So, real cheap, easy, economical. That's for people that, if you don't have a printer, you don't wanna buy a printer, maybe go this route, or you've got a document on your phone, you can go into any Home Depot, or Home Depot, Office Max, Office Depot, buy some sticker paper and say, hey, can you print this for me? Oh, nice, okay. And it's, you know, a couple cents. So, essentially, I could run this sight tape year round. Obviously, the ambient temperature's gonna change. Definitely, spring's coming up, same with the dew point, all that kind of stuff. So, realistically, I could manipulate this sight tape and print out a new one if I wanted to a couple months down the road, or while I'm shooting, I can make adjustments for whatever location I'm at. Right, you can say, okay, I know this tape that I built was rock solid here in Spokane. Just go to your Shoot 4 calculator, the current conditions where you're at, the wind, the line of sight, shot distance, the shot angle, and it's gonna tell you what your cuts are gonna be. That's sick. Relative to, so, you know, try it here. Let me know how it works out for you, and go from there. The wind drift is something that's a little bit more of an estimate than exact, and the biggest reason for that is when the wind hits your arrow, we don't know how much your arrow's gonna pitch. Our assumption is is that you've got enough vane and enough forward or center that it drifts laterally, and so I'm taking account the whole surface area of the side and not a change of surface area. You see how that changes relative to you? But if you're running a 6.5, and you got some big old vanes on there, and your FOC is, meh, under 12%. Yeah, it's probably gonna be almost sideways when it hits the target, depending on the wind. Yeah, you're gonna check it out. All right, guys, this is my dude. We are gonna go podcast with Lucas next door at the other bay. Check it out the other channel, Elk Shape Podcasting Training. Separation's in the preparation. We'll catch you on the next one.