Demi Lovato: It's Not That Deep, Life and Love | Apple Music

Demi Lovato is here, everybody. Thank you. What's going on? How are you? Nothing, I'm good. How are you? I'm doing really good. Thanks for swinging by Apple Music Studios right now. Congratulations on the new album. Thank you. How are you feeling now it's out and, you know, we'll get to the making of it and all the fun stuff. But I mean, how do you what's the sort of general feeling for you once you've released this record versus perhaps other ones and whatnot? Well, it feels like a release, like metaphorically and literally. So, you know, just getting to put the music out there feels really good. I've been sitting on this music for a year, basically, or for a lot of the music and just really excited about it and wanted my fans to hear it. And now it's out and they get to hear it and play it, play it and share it and do all the things with it. So, yeah, I'm excited. What's your relationship like with music when it's only you have it, you know, on your hard drive or on your phone for like a long period of time? And we haven't heard it yet. I mean, is it challenging sometimes as much as you love to make it, to stay excited about it at moments? You're like, come on, let's just get this thing going. You doubt yourself a lot. Like when it's not out into the world. Yeah, I mean, you doubt it. You doubt yourself when it's out in the world, too. But like, I think when it's not out in the world, at least I did. I doubted myself a lot of like, are people going to like this? And so when it's finally out and then your fans love it, that's all that matters. You know, that little voice inside of you that creates that doubt, it needs to be quelled when you're in the creative process. So you'd never finish a song ever in your life. Right. I mean, well, I feel like that's where collaborators come into play. Like that's what's really nice about having collaborators is you get to bounce ideas off of one another. And like I think if it were just me in a room writing with my guitar and piano like I used to when I was 15, like I would never finish an album. You know what I'm saying? All of this life that you've that you've lived and the success that you've had. And I know that we've talked about this and we're not going to go back over all ground, you know, you've had everyone goes through ups and downs, but so many ups, so much success. You still hear fans really care. That moment where you pick a guitar up, there's still that that part of you if you're on your own, that sort of question. Well, yeah, I mean, I talked about it a bit in my documentary Child Star. I had a manager that like really shut those or an old team. Sorry, I must say that really kind of shut that down for me. Like I used to have a lot of confidence in my songwriting and I would just. And and when I played my new music for my music for my team at one point when I was like 15, they were like, yeah, that's good. We need to get you in the room with other writers. And I was like, wow. Ouch. So that shut down that like solo writing journey for me for the rest of my life. At 15, you're at an age where you're searching for a safe space to explore your identity. And someone's like, that's not your identity. Yeah, exactly. It was really hard. But, you know, good for you for carrying on, though. Now I appreciate songwriting with other people because sometimes I just I'm also like I'm ADHD, so sometimes my mind will wander and it takes me forever to, you know, get an idea out. But, you know, having people that will draw your focus back in or maybe spark some new idea or inspiration like it can really, really help to have other people in the room with you. I'm pretty heavily OCD. And I remember the first time. Me too, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember the first time that I actually figured out what it was and then when sort of help on how I could sort of develop tools in order to manage it. But the first time I realized and I looked at all the symptoms and I looked and it was so specific to how I felt at points in my life. I felt this overwhelming sense of relief. Did you feel that way as well? And you kind of figured out that, OK, the way my mind moves and the way I'm wired and the way I think and absorb and create and move is that actually sort of fits into a framework of science and how we figured out what's going on. Was it were you relieved? Yeah. I mean, there's been I've like also struggled with mental health issues. And so I've had that same like relief when I was diagnosed with OCD. Yeah. And like diagnosed with bipolar disorder or whatever it is. Like I felt that relief. Are you talking about like in relation to music? No, I'm talking about in relation to like, oh, my gosh, this thing that I can't put my finger on that that makes me just overthink things. Well, I just cannot get to grips with it. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. I've got a direction now I can go down and go talk to some people and figure out how to kind of go. Yeah. It was like it was really helpful to pinpoint where that started for me. I think once I pinpointed it, I started to have faith in myself again. Yes. And and now I write really fearlessly. Yeah, you really do. And I mean, we've spoken multiple times on this show over the course of the last sort of five to 10 years, because, you know, and I've told you this on and off the record, you know, I think you do shine a light on that through your writing and how you lived your life. But we find ourselves here today. It's not that deep. It says everything needs to say on the album title. OK, we got to address this. And I'm sure other people have as well. I love a fake retirement. I love the idea of saying, you know, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm done with this because it's a great dramatic statement and it gets people's attention. And you have every right to turn around and say, you know what? I'm actually inspired by this. Yeah. And so did you have a little chuckle to yourself thinking, my God, I thought I was done with pop music, but I hear I'm making one of the biggest pop albums of my career. Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny. It's like I'm such a fluid person that things change all the time. Like, I woke up this morning and was like, maybe that's my last album. It's not that deep. Like, I don't know. And like, it could be it could be my last album. This could be my last tour. But I could also wake up in six months from now and be like, I want to make another album. So I think it just I'm so fluid that yeah, don't take what I say very seriously. Everybody's the same. And I feel, you know, I change my mind all the time. But the difference is like when you come out and make a statement like that, it's fun. It's interesting for everybody to go, OK, Demi's switching into a whole different experience creatively right now. What was going on with you in pop music when you came out a couple of years back just to tee up this album where you were just like, you know what? I'm done with that. You know, I'm going in a different direction. And I want my fans to understand that. So they don't keep like second guessing my decisions. What was going on with you? I think the pop industry is really hard and I think I got discouraged and was like, why haven't I had a hit in a long time? I hadn't had and I kind of still haven't had a radio hit in a long time. And so it's been it's like any grounds for breeding self-doubt. Like, I want to take that out of my life and eliminate it. And so I was like, let me try like what I grew up listening to and was like, let me just go back to rock music, because that's what I that's what like inspired me to become a musician, basically, with Don't Forget. And here we go again. And so I went back to that. And then and then I found that it was like challenging to write happy rock songs, like because I fell in love with. You got married and were like, I got married. I got no friction in my life to write. Even before I had gotten married, I was like in this relationship and so happy and in love. And I was like every song I was I was going into the studio and it was like hitting my head against the wall. I was like trying to figure out what to write about. And there's only like so many sexy and in love rock songs you can write before it just like you run out of ideas. And so I was like, let me just pivot genres. We piss each other off, though. I mean, I've been married 26 years and my wife, if she was to make a rock album, would have more than enough material to sell. And we're deeply in love. I'd imagine that, you know, over the course of your life, you'll find some of that friction. It'll be just like, just ******* do some dishes, you big piece of ----. OK, so we came up with a funny thing. We came up with a funny thing in our relationship, which is like if something doesn't get done like a dish or, you know, something like that, we blame it on Luigi. Luigi is an imaginary house guest. And if someone didn't take their dishes downstairs or something, it's like, babe, can you believe Luigi didn't do the dishes tonight? Oh, my God, that's one of the most terrifying kind of it's kind of genius, kind of pest aggressive, terrifying, and we end up laughing about it. So like neither of us actually gets mad. Wow. Yeah, we have like we have a really, really great and strong relationship to where I don't have any material to write about. I mean, you've moved in lots of different spaces. You know, you're known for writing big ballads, big songs that, you know, really show off your range and your emotional range. You've also moved in the rock space. So you obviously have that rasp and that tension and that gravel. But hearing you on dancefloor music again, that real four on the floor, which kind of moves a lot through this record, must have been nice for you and fun for you to stretch out. It's an interesting tempo. You can say a lot over 125 beats per minute, right? Yeah. Yeah, it was really fun. This whole like exploration into going back to my neon lights days was really, really fun for me. And and I do want to make more of it. The writing side of this record. I mean, how did you how did you begin? How did this album start? I mean, you know, you you seem very happy. You seem very at peace with what's going on around you, which is a great place to start making music. But, you know, when when there's trauma and there's this, you know, that stuff just rises to the surface and erupts, right? Like a volcano. How did you find the first step? What was the first step you took to making this album? It's not that deep. I just was kind of tired of writing about my trauma and was like, I just want to have fun with this one. I haven't had fun in so long with with art. It's not that I haven't had fun in so long with writing music. It was just like it was so so therapeutic that sometimes it would be draining for me when I would leave the studio. And I did so much healing on my last album. And I just felt like I don't need to do that again for this one. I'm so in love and so like happy and just in this new chapter of my life that like, you know, I wanted to encapsulate that. So I just chased that vibe. What have you learned? We've learned a lot about you through some of the more challenging stages of your life because of your songwriting and then your courage to talk a little bit more about it. And, you know, I think that you've actually I'm sure you would agree, I hope you'd agree, have been a strong advocate for, you know, awareness around mental health issues, you know, for a long time. I never shied away from it. But it's not that deep. Getting into the idea of love, you know, what what did you learn about what is important to you about that concept of love? Have you been in love before and fallen out of love? Finding something that feels lasting right now, wanting to like create tribute around that with music? What is what are some of the most important things to you about making like a successful relationship? I've definitely been in relationships before and thought I had been in love, but I've never loved like this. And I'm going to cry. I never knew that you could be with someone who your love could continue to grow for every single day. I kind of on the day that I got married, I was like, OK, this is it. This is like I'm the most in love I've ever been in my life. And this is what it's going to be forever. And I was so wrong because it just has kept growing. And it's been five months since we got married. But I'm like, oh, I didn't know it was possible to love you more than I did on my on our wedding day. Yeah. And. You know, I think the album is called It's Not That Deep, but there are some deep songs on it, and one of which is Ghost. It's the song about like being terrified to lose somebody because you love them so much. That's a powerful feeling. Yes. And lose them in a sense of like talking about life and death. Oh, yeah. And it. It still makes me emotional when I sing it because I feel it so much. And so the album is It's Not That Deep, but like the emotions are still there. And I hope this answered your question. I don't even remember what your question was. I just got wrapped up in my answer of like, I just I continue to learn that. Love is evolving and. You can. It's like that Brad Paisley song, Then. Yeah. And I thought I loved you then. It's like that. Yeah. And. But it's all a risk in a great way. I think once you realize that. It's when the risk is worth it. And that's when you have those kind of irrational being obsessive compulsive, both of us getting locked in that that sort of room of our mind over things that haven't happened. Yes. And and the fear around, OK, I've given so much of myself to something or someone that means so much to me. That unconditional love. Yes. Comes at a at a at a risk because people like us and millions and millions of people all over the world, I'm sure everyone in their own way, but we obsess over the what ifs of life. Yes. And my what ifs are always like based around. My OCD tendencies are always based around other people. Like if I don't do this. Oh, no, something bad is going to happen to my mom or my husband. Or it's never really centered around me. It's always centered around the people I love. And that's because I care so much. And so it's the what ifs that are really terrifying. And that's what I wrote this song about, you know, is the what if of of something horrible happening. And, you know, I don't I don't even want to think about that. But like that, I wrote it because I love him so much. And I and it's also like I didn't know I when I was writing the album, I was like, well, I don't really have a lot of ballads on here. And I feel like it would be a miss to not do at least one song where I perform really big vocally on it in a ballad. And so but I was like, what would the ballad be about? Like, I'm not sad and I'm not trying to relive any trauma. So I guess I just I just wrote it about, yeah, my fear of of future trauma. You think about a ballad, right? I mean, there are ballads on this album. They just put to four on the floor. Yeah. Half time them. It just technically ballads, right? I mean, that to me has tempo. You've just decided to move in a different space in order to emote there. Yeah. You know, speaking of which, we were talking about this kind of fool's errand, but we can't help it. This desire to try to sort of control the narrative of our brain in order to prevent bad things from potentially happening that aren't even on the horizon. How about that for an equation, right? Yeah. Life. And yet in music, you find the courage. Have you ever sort of understood what what comes so naturally to you in the studio, but you find so hard to to sort of maintain outside of the creative space because you just literally face down that thing you're most scared of over the course of four minutes and 15 seconds in the most vivid way? I think that like writing for me is very therapeutic and like writing about mortality is something that I guess I haven't ever done before. I've written like songs about myself and I guess happy ending on my last album was kind of like a little bit of that. But and I've written songs about like guardian angels, but never anything like this before. And and I it felt really good, really therapeutic to just put it out there. And and people have really resonated with it. I think I'm really proud of this one. And I'm glad that it's touched so many people. I mean, it's like the idea of addressing new emotions and feelings is what you hope an artist is, like I said, courageous enough to do. I I've never heard I haven't heard a song put like that, put to it that way, talking about something that nobody wants to acknowledge. Yeah, we I think it's so interesting that I was thinking the other day about like, what if I love lost the people I love the most in the world? How would I react? Like no one wants to have that conversation. I think we don't talk about that enough in our society. Like there's so much fear surrounding life and death. And it is just a part of it. And I I didn't want to shy away from something just because I wrote an album that was lighthearted. Like these are still emotions that I feel. And and it was I'm so in love that I'm like that I'm terrified of losing him. And and I just wanted to write a song that encapsulated that. You just announced a tour, which is exciting. Yes. To go back out on the road. Yeah. How has how is your sort of appreciation of that changed? And I guess that's that's a question related up into your preparation and how you're going to go about this tour versus other tours. You've done lots of tours. Yeah. How are you preparing for this one in order to enjoy it the most than you've ever enjoyed it before? I'm definitely going to like up my strength training and cardio because I feel like I'm going to be doing more dancing. So my back has to be in good shape. A lot of tempo on this record. You know, this is not a 23 year old body anymore. Like we have to take care of it and get it ready for tour. But I think like aside from the physical aspect of what this tour will entail, I'm so excited to just get back out there and see my fans like so excited. It's going to be so great. And there's so many people that want to celebrate this album. And I can't wait to do that with them. Have there been times when that hasn't been the case where, you know, you wanted to do that, but it's just been the idea of mentally or physically just going out there and doing another tour or playing would be tough. Touring, I'm not going to lie, is very challenging. It's very hard. And, you know, it's something that takes a lot out on you emotionally, mentally, physically. And I always get sick on the road. Like and singing when you're sick is the least fun thing in the world to me. Like there's nothing I would rather do less than. Well, OK, maybe not. But like singing while you're sick is just absolutely miserable. And so, you know, being getting you can easily wrap yourself up in like the what ifs of what could possibly happen on the road. But like when you think that all goes away, when I think of like the adoring fans and the faces and that's the one thing I hold on to is like the faces. Yeah. Like they're either going to be they're either going to have smiles or they're going to have tears of joy and or tears of connection and vulnerability. And like I want to create a safe space for my fans. And it's just going to be so much fun. I think there's so many songs that are going to be in my set list that are like throwbacks to my the beginning of my career and maybe not the beginning, but, you know, earlier side of my career. And do you want to keep it less deep as far as the set list goes as well? Yes, definitely. Like I don't envision singing a ton of ballads on this tour. I mean, I will. Obviously, I have ballads in my catalog that are really important to me that I want to share, but. Just dust them up, mate. Put that four on the floor underneath them and you're off to the races. Honestly, you never. The world is my oyster when it comes to this tour. Like I can change anything and, you know, remix whatever. And it'll be fun. The beautiful thing about this album is, you know, to your point, you know, you can just put a temporary outfit on whatever you want. The relationship you've developed with your fans is deep. That is deep. That I'll never like deny that that is definitely has depth to it. Yeah, of course. You know, you've lived your life in front of people and shared your experiences with them, helped others in the process, and they in turn have helped you by supporting you and being there for you. I'm sure at times when you needed to know that it was more than just you. Right. That there were people out there that appreciated you and the talent you had. So I mean, you just did a show like on The Weeknd, right? You just played the Palladium, is that right? Yeah. Yeah. So, OK, you're at a point now where your eyes are open in a different way and you're looking at your audience probably in a very different way with tempo and with love in your heart. So what do you sort of what do you recognize in the room now that feels unique to you? Who is your audience? What matters to the people that come to a Demi Lovato show, do you think? Acceptance, like fans that come to that want to be accepted. Like, I see you. I see you in the audience. I accept you no matter what your age or sexual orientation or preference or gender, whatever it is like. I see you and I accept you. And I just want you to have a good time with me. Like, I want to keep the show lighthearted and I want to have a good time. There's a lot going on in the world. And I just want to, like, be that fun place for people, you know? You know, there's a really interesting thing developing amongst amongst some of the artists of your generation that grew up, you know, in such a public way so young that I feel like you're all without naming names, finding your own pocket of peace and are able to let some of that go. That expectation of being a child star, as you rightly put it. You know, getting to that place where it doesn't chase you around anymore. I don't feel like you are haunted by that experience as much as you were. No, I think after working on Child Star, like I learned a lot about myself. I learned why I used to rely on like public validation so much and why I felt so why I needed to be accepted by others. And there was so much that I learned. And once I was able to do that documentary, I shed all of that. I kind of let it go. And now I feel like I've definitely found my place. And I and I love it. Do you think about what's happening? Because there's always space out there for curiosity in terms of young, creative, talented people. And there's an appetite within the public to want to support talent. Right. And then next thing you know, to your point, it becomes something that's out of your control. Having the wisdom and the gift of life to look back on that time in your life. Do you do you think things are changing for better for worse? Is it always the same? Do you look at young kids who are growing up in the spotlight right now and go, oh, man, you know, are we ever going to figure this figure out how to support these kids better? Like, what's your take on that? Having been kind of a survivor of that to some degree? Yeah, I think when I was a child star, there were protections put in place for, you know, for us as kids being compensated and taken care of. And I think that like we're in new territory now with social media. We there have to be regulations and protections put in place for compensation and and just protection in general for kids. I agree. And I think that'll come. I think it's still very new. And so people are trying to figure it out. But the sooner the better. I agree. And hopefully there will be more change in that direction. You think about a life away. I mean, obviously, maybe you'll always want to make music. Maybe you won't, but you'll always have a creative outlet. Right. You're a creative being. Yeah, definitely. It doesn't have to be this. And I don't get wrong. I enjoy this, but it doesn't have to be this. Do you think about a life away from? Always. Yeah, always. Like, I just got married. I'm thinking about kids, you know, and I think about like, well, do I want to keep making music and do I want to keep touring or do I like I'm not getting any younger? Like I, I think about it all the time. And I'm but I'm such a fluid person that I'm just going to take it as it comes. Like, unfortunately, people who are are able to get pregnant, there's a clock that ticks. And I think about that a lot. Yeah. And but but then one could argue there's adoption and there's, you know, other alternative options for that. And and so I think about that a lot. But like, I've also just thought about it a lot in my life because I've been doing this for so long. It's like, OK, when are you going to when are you going to make that decision to like actually step aside? And when am I going to realize I put enough energy into this? Yes. And I think music will always be here for me as a creative outlet. Like you said, I don't think I ever want to like write off music forever. I don't think that that's even if I was like a mom, I'd still want to make music. But it just what does that look like? Is it for myself or is it for other artists? Soft pitch. Soft pitch. Yeah. You have given so much of your voice to these songs. And some of these songs in your catalog are so big because you have the ability to carry them. So the songs rise to match you and what your ambition is. And you sort of face off. And then ultimately you win with these performances. And you have to perform them every single time. But like there must be moments where it's like, especially being in an environment where you're in a relationship with someone and the intimacy is an all time high where you think, I wonder what it would be like just to go somewhere really isolated with just a very, very skeleton crew and just write the best songs and sing them however they want to be sung. I don't feel like you have to like, and this is a soft pitch, I have no idea. But like, wouldn't it be cool just to like nestle into something intimate, just into something intimate, a project that's intimate. You've got these bangers and man, you suit this. This is just I don't even know if we're still recording or going out live right now. I feel like I'm just literally talking to a friend with an idea. It wouldn't be cool just to like get a selection of like, you could smash that. Some acoustic guitar, really simple rhythm section and just the right songs. Like, I think you can do that whenever in your life. It doesn't have to be this kind of like, all right, out in the wide eye. Yes. I think like eventually I'll probably end up doing something like that. Awesome. I think if like if I were to make more music right now, it would probably be the same vibe as It's Not That Deep, just because I'm having so much fun with it. You're getting excited about the end of the year. I am. I mean, I only bring that up because, you know, man, around sort of November time, I start thinking about like what I'm going to be able to do with my time. And not that I don't love doing this, but you know, I just unapologetically do zero. Yeah. You were saying off the air, you've kind of afforded yourself a little bit of some decompression time now? Yeah, definitely. I've worked really, really, really, really hard over the past few months. And now it's time to enjoy the holidays and maybe go on a vacation and visit my husband on tour because he's headlining his tour right now or about to in a couple of days. And I am so excited for him. Yeah. I'm going to miss him. Yeah, he's going to pack his bag. He's going to pack his bag. And you're going to be like, I'll see you in a week or two, maybe a couple of days. All right. I mean, I'm going to get on the bus. Like at the end of the day, that's the cool thing. Right. You know what the lifestyle is. Yeah. And, you know, you were saying you have ambitions to start a family and all these wonderful things. But right now it's just the two of you, right? Fresh from marriage. I mean, you should just go hit the road full stop. I know. Yeah. Demi, it's been really good to see you. Thank you for coming in. I always enjoy your company and I always appreciate your honesty. It's great hearing you, you know, in such a light space, but also with the depth of writing that you always bring. But, you know, just tempo and dynamic and it's been really fun. Great luck. Good luck for the tour next year if we don't see you in before and have a really great Christmas. Thank you so much. You, too.