How to Develop PSYCHIC ABILITIES with Dr. Jeff Tarrant (Train Your Brain to Become Psychic)

So brainwaves don't just exist in your head. Anytime there's a like electrical activity, there's a magnetic field that accompanies it. So it's electromagnetic and electromagnetic field. And so literally, if you have the right equipment, you can measure brainwave activity outside of a person's skull. You can measure it out here. So we're not. So even from a very scientific perspective, our energy is not contained within our body. Hey, have you ever wondered if there's a way that you could train yourself to become psychic? Well, my guest today has the answer to that. Dr. Jeff Tarrant is the founder and director of Psychic Mind Science and the Neuromeditation Institute in Eugene, Oregon. His research involves studying the brain and the brainwave changes that occur as a result of things like meditation, altered states of consciousness and psychic abilities. His new book is called Becoming Psychic Lessons from the Minds of Mediums, Healers and Psychics. We're going to have an awesome conversation today about how we might train our brains to become psychic. So welcome, Jeff. I'm so excited to talk to you. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Yeah, for sure. So we were just chatting before I press record and I just finished your book yesterday. I really loved it in the book. You share not only your research, but you share a lot of different tools, tips, techniques that can help replicate these brainwave states that you see in the minds of psychics and mediums. But I think what I love most about your book is that you use yourself as a guinea pig. And so there's a lot of amazing stories in the book about your own experiences when you're trying out these experiments on yourself. You went from being a skeptic to a believer based on what you experience with not only your personal experience, but also your research. So can you talk to us a little bit about that journey from skeptic to believer? Sure. And and to be fair, you know, when I was a younger kid, I was not a skeptic. I was into every kind of weird thing that you could imagine. So I feel like that was always in the background of my, you know, consciousness somewhere. But then, yeah, once I started graduate school, my graduate training and training as a neuroscientist, I think that's really where all of a sudden my thinking shifted and I became much more skeptical, much more doubtful about all of these things and really started to think of them as wishful thinking or some sort of a psychological reaction that people have. You know, an existential thing, like making us feel like maybe there's something like we're more special than we really are. And that lasted for quite a while. And I feel like it's been a process of unlearning, unlearning some of the training that I had in, you know, how to rigidly think about what's real and what's not and what's possible and what's not. And so, yeah, the last 10 years. Has really been a lot of that unfolding, and it has been largely due to what you've already explained in terms of. My ability to interact with a lot of people who have just some amazing abilities. And so seeing it firsthand, seeing what their brain is doing and then trying some things myself and figuring out, oh, well, wait a minute. I can do some of this, too. It's hard to argue with when you have enough compelling evidence. Definitely. So you've studied many different individuals. You know, you've studied mediumship, psychic abilities, telepathy. Was there one really mind blowing experience? I mean, in your book, there are many mind blowing experiences, but was there one that stood out for you that really, you know, you felt a big shift that you could never really go back after you experienced that? Yeah. And the one experience that I would highlight actually just happened about a year and a half ago. So it's a more recent experience. And it involved some preliminary research we were doing with kids and adults who are autistic and nonverbal. So they don't use verbal language. They communicate by pointing to a letter board to spell things out. And this was work that was really spearheaded by Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell, who's a psychiatrist who's been studying savants in the autistic population for quite a while. And so my job was to measure the brain during these supposed telepathy experiences that were being examined. And in the course of I didn't talk about all of this in the book, but I've been able to see three different individuals now, autistic individuals who are nonverbal that were 100 percent accurate with their primary caregiver. No, it didn't matter what the telepathy task was. We could show the mom four random numbers, hide the numbers, and the the child could point to those perfectly each time. We could open up a random book that we pulled off the shelf and show a page of it to the mom. And they would just start writing the sentences that the mom was looking at. Uno cards, you know, flash cards in Spanish and in English. Like we tried so many different experiments and they were if we didn't mess with the environment too much, they were 100 percent accurate. And I've never seen anything like that in my life. And when you see that in person, I mean, it's kind of mind blowing because, yeah, you know, we see a lot of cool things, but, you know, obviously you're a psychic medium and, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but every psychic medium I've worked with, they're not 100 percent perfect. Oh, definitely. 100 percent. Yeah. You know, and it's like highly dependent on conditions. Like, you know what I mean? Like the more grounded, centered you are. But even in that, like and we'll get back to your story, I promise. But even yesterday, I was giving I gave about 10 readings in a row. Even in that, even in that, like there were some that were really stellar and some that there was a couple that were like difficult to tune in. So anyways, keep going. It's very what I'm saying is that it's very that 100 percent accuracy rate is very rare. So exactly. And and experimenting with myself and trying to learn some things and observing so many high level psychics and mediums and none of them are even close to 100 percent. So so then seeing this, you know, it really makes it difficult for the brain to say, oh, this stuff's not real or to say, oh, they're cheating somehow. Yeah. Clearly, there was no way they were cheating. And in fact, you know, they they're autistic. They they had very little interest in what we were doing. Yeah, right. Yeah. But they just did it so effortlessly. And did you have them blindfolded anyway? Like weren't they? They were blindfolded. So there's no way you can cheat, really. They can't see anything. There's no way of of receiving that information other than telepathy. Yeah, I don't I don't know how else they could have possibly receive the information. Literally, there was. Yes, we had them blindfolded. We had a large black poster board, foam board that we held in between the mom and the kids so that they couldn't see each other while we were showing the mom the information we had. You know, we removed everything in the room that could have had a reflection. We took the TVs out. We covered anything that was glass. Yeah. You know, we took every precaution that we could think of. And so, you know, seeing that that's possible all of a sudden. You know, for me, I think that was really just the deal breaker that any part of my brain that was still skeptical. It was like, OK, you win. I give in, you know, I love it. So can we talk about before we get into some of your research findings? Can we just do a little brainwave 101 kind of like a primer so that people, if they're not sure what brainwave states or brain brainwave patterns are, you could just explain what brain what that is so that a beginner understands when we talk about your research. That's probably a good idea. Yeah. So, of course, the brain is, you know, every cell in the brain, every cell in the body is making producing electricity, electrical signals. It's part of how they communicate with each other. All the cells in the body. And so when we're looking at the brain with the neurons. And there's all this electrical activity happening, which we can, of course, measure on the surface of the head with an EEG. So just little sensors that pick up electrical activity, just picking up the the the the the noise and the signal of whatever is happening that we're picking up. So the way that brainwaves work is we actually have a lot of different frequencies in the brain that are happening simultaneously all the time, everywhere. And some of the brainwaves are very slow. So things like delta waves, you know, many people are familiar with the terms delta, theta, alpha, beta, gamma now when we're talking about brainwaves and really what those terms represent are speeds of the brainwaves. So delta are the slowest brainwaves, usually something like zero to four cycles per second. So you can imagine a very slow repetition. There's only, you know, two, three, four of those cycles every second of time. But then we also have brainwaves like gamma, where there are somewhere around 40 cycles per second. So it's very fast, very rapid, very small brainwaves. And then we have everything in between. So it's it gets complicated very quick because the brain is making a lot of different types of electrical information. And then, of course, it can do different things in different parts of the brain. And so one of the ways that's really interesting to look at the brain is to. Take a recording of somebody's brainwave activity. You know, we put a 19 channel cap on their head. It's got 19 electrodes on it, so we can measure 19 areas simultaneously. And we're just recording what the brain is doing. What is the electrical activity? And then there's various software packages that allow us to analyze the data so we can break it apart and look at, well, how much delta was there and how much theta and how much alpha and all the different locations of the brain. So it's called a quantitative EEG because we're putting numbers to those squiggly lines, you know, most people think of an EEG and it's squiggly lines that you see on a computer monitor from a TV show or something, you know. And that is what we see. But then we analyze it more specifically. So once we have numbers. How much of each brainwave there is in each location? Well, now all of a sudden you can compare and you can say, well, how does the brain change or how does it compare to this other individual? So what we've done, what most of the research that I've conducted is using this technique. Measure somebody at baseline when they're sitting doing nothing or often just having a regular conversation and then measure their brain again when they're doing a psychic reading or a mediumship reading or whatever it is. And then we can compare the two and say, well, what's it what's different? What's different about your brain when you're doing one versus the other? So what's interesting is that there is a difference because a lot of skeptics would probably say that, you know, if this doesn't exist, there wouldn't be a difference in your brainwave state. So that's interesting. But one question that comes to mind that I really wanted to ask you is that if if you measure just the baseline measurement of a psychic or medium compared to someone who doesn't exhibit, you know, psychic ability, is there a difference in the baseline of just like not necessarily giving a reading, but just are, you know, day to day, you know, whatever that is, that just like that, that baseline pattern. So first of all, is there a difference between the average person and someone who exhibits psychic ability? That's my first question. That's a great question. And it's actually, believe it or not, it's a question I haven't fully looked at carefully with all the data that I've got. For some reason, in some cases, I've looked at that. And in some cases, I haven't. I've just gotten distracted or been focused on a specific skill. And so it's actually on my list of things that I want to do is go back through all my data and answer that question. But from a just my perception of what I've seen without carefully looking at everything, there do seem to be a couple of patterns that show up. I'm going to say semi consistently. So not everybody. And of course, there's a lot of individual differences. So I don't think we're ever going to find something that says every psychic medium has this thing, this pattern or whatever, because there's too many different ways that people can maneuver their states of consciousness. But one of the things that I see a lot is a brain that kind of looks ADHD ish. I read. Yes, that's in your book. I was like, bring that up. Talk about that. Because again, with the kind of going back to this, the idea of autistic savant again, you know, you could perceive that as some sort of I don't know that flaw is the right word, but same thing with ADHD. Some people say look at that as a problem. But in your book, you're you you see that correlation between that commonality in the psychic brain. So talk a little more about that, because it's so fascinating. Yeah. So one of the patterns that shows up consistently with ADHD is too much slow brainwave activity. So theta in particular in relation to fast activity. So they talk about a theta beta ratio. So you measure how much theta there is, how much beta there is. Divide them. You get a number. And, you know, the average neurotypical adult is going to have a ratio about two to one. So the amount of theta compared to beta is about two to one. And that's what we expect. What you see with ADHD is that that ratio often gets skewed significantly. So that it might be three to one or four to one. I've seen five to one. And so there's way more slow brainwaves than fast, which on the surface may seem contradictory. It may seem like that doesn't make sense. It's like, wait a minute. You're telling me that somebody with ADHD has slow brain, has a slow brain. And what it actually means is that certain parts of the brain are not doing their job as effectively or as efficiently as they could otherwise. And so those slow brainwaves are kind of you can imagine parts of the brain just kind of like not doing their job. They're just distracted. They're just kind of doing whatever they want. And it tends to be their frontal lobes. And of course, the frontal lobes are involved in inhibiting that. That's a huge part of what the frontal lobes do is inhibit information or inhibit behaviors. So you can see that it's like, well, OK, if it's not doing its job very well, maybe you're disinhibited. Maybe you act out, maybe you talk when you're not supposed to talk or you get out of your seat in class or whatever, because the brain is disinhibited. And so that's a pattern we see a lot with ADHD. And by the way, is is why a lot of times stimulants will help people with ADHD. It seems like it's a paradox, but it's not. If you have an under aroused brain and you arouse it. It functions, those speeds, those doesn't speed those brainwaves up. It does. It's OK, brainwaves up. OK. And so it helps the brain function better. So a lot of times when people are stimulation seeking, seeking, you know. Things that are interesting, that are engaging, that are motivating. It's because it's shifting that balance of brainwaves. And so what I've seen with quite a few psychic mediums is this pattern. It very much looks if they were coming in for a clinical evaluation, I would immediately start asking about ADHD symptoms. Right now, it doesn't necessarily mean that they have ADHD, but they sure show that pattern. And now, of course, there's a lot of psychic mediums that I've talked to who say, oh, yeah, I've got ADHD. You know, they they readily acknowledge it. Right. And so my theory is that actually having a brain that is slightly disinhibited is helpful if you're trying to tune in to more subtle information, because your brain isn't doing that rigid lockdown, saying, like, I'm only paying attention to this. It's more fluid. It's more open. Yeah, for sure. So in terms of going back to studying, you know, the psychic, the medium, when they're giving a reading. So part of your research was you you take this baseline and then you have them give a reading and then you're studying their brainwaves to to note the difference or the changes. So can you just go over what some of the changes are in the brain when someone's someone's engaging in giving a psychic or mediumship reading? Sure. There's there's several that that show up pretty consistently. And so what's interesting is they're, you know, through the work of writing the book, it really helped me kind of organize my understanding of what I was seeing. And there's probably three or four really consistent areas of the brain that change their functioning pretty significantly. Now, how different psychics and mediums make that happen varies. But well, I think one of the most interesting parts of the brain that shows up, especially with mediumship spirit communication, those areas in particular, this shows up very strong is a I'm going to call it a shutting down of the right parietal lobe. So this area kind of in the back right quadrant of the brain. Sometimes you'll see it referred to as the temporal parietal junction. So the temporal lobes are on the side of the head by the ear and the parietal lobes are back here. So kind of in the same vicinity, right, like where the temporal lobes and the parietal lobes interact. And this part of the brain is. So when I said that it goes offline, I say that because what we will often see is. A dramatic increase of slow brainwave activity. In that area. And again, kind of like we just talked about with Theda, if there's a lot of activity in that area, it kind of means it's not doing its job. Right. It's like it's offline for some reason. Right. And some of these psychic mediums, the amount of of delta and theta that shows up in that area, it's like off the chart. Like when you first look at it on the computer screen, it's like that can't be real. It's just. It's so big that it's like it just does. It's like, no way. But I've seen it so many times and I've tested my equipment and my caps and everything that no, this is what's happening. That part of the brain is just shutting down temporarily. And I think that's important because this part of the brain is referred to as the God spot. And what its main function or one of its main functions is creating boundaries. So when it's doing its normal job. It's essentially saying, I'm Jeff. I live in this meat suit. I'm separate from you. You live in your meat suit. We're totally different people. We don't share thoughts. We don't share information. So that's part of what it does when it's doing its normal job. So it's interesting that what these mediums are doing is somehow able to shut that down, which is, I think, what allows them then to connect with. Other people, other spirits, other energies outside of themselves. And that's essentially why it's referred to as the God spot, because people who have damage to that part of the brain inevitably become more empathic and more spiritual. And so I think it is that ability to connect to something outside of yourself. Right. That's really important. And so some people are just really good at it. So it's kind of just it's it just it seems to be with with many psychics and mediums that that is almost just happens naturally. Like I know that. And we'll talk about some of the tools and techniques we can use to replicate some of your findings. But it just seems like, you know, that whatever that is, it just you know, it's it's almost like maybe they're they're born with a brain that just has a tendency to be able to shut that down. Or maybe they go through an experience that that alters their brain in some way. Would that be accurate? Yeah, I think so. And again, not everybody. But, you know, you were asking about patterns that show up with psychics and mediums just at baseline. Right. Right. And I have observed in a significant number of people that this part of that that same area of the brain, it looks like it's behaving different than average. Right. Just a baseline. They're not trying to do anything. Yeah. And so I my sense is that, yeah, for some people, that's just an easy access point. And they however it happened, whether it's just they were born that way. And of course, we hear about that, that psychics and mediums talking about having a generations in their family of people who especially women were psychics or mediums. So there may be something sort of genetic that people pick up could be from an injury or from some other kind of practices. However, it happens. They seem to be just much more naturally inclined to be able to shut that down and open up. It's just an automatic thing that happens. They don't even have to necessarily try. Yeah, it's so fascinating to me because it's almost like like I think of it as, well, maybe the brain is creating this illusion of separation. And so when when that is not active, like because you talk about, you know, your experience with psychedelics, too, and how you feel like in that experience, you had a glimpse of the real reality, like the way the way that really is. So when I was reading about that and then also with this talk of that region of the brain, I can't help but wonder if, OK, the brain is just creating this illusion of separation. And then when that's offline, the real reality starts to show up. Right. So I think you're right. Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, we can't prove that. But yeah, for me at this point, I think that's what makes the most sense. And the more I study and the more I look at this, the more I think that the primary job of the brain is to filter information. And and of course, we know that that's what it does, even if you just pick your senses. And everybody's very familiar with this idea, right, that the the the light that we pick up and process in our in our eye through our eyes is only a very, very small range of the whole electromagnetic spectrum. It's a very tiny range. Right. And so the eyes are filtering information. The ears are filtering information. The brain is filtering information. And so it's essentially a reducing valve. All of the information that exists out there is basically being like, yeah, no, no, no. We're not going to pay attention to that. Oh, this is what we want is this. Right. And so it's very good at just minimizing what. And and there's some functionality to that, of course, because and this may be what happens with some people who have serious mental health concerns like schizophrenia. It's possible that what's happening is they their filters aren't working. And so there's just way too much information coming through all the time. Yeah. And so how do you make sense out of that and still function in this physical world? It may not be possible. Yeah. Well, that makes sense because most or many psychics, I should say, also would describe themselves as having like an empathic nature, which often means that, you know, being sensitive and easily overstimulated and highly sensitive, all those kind of go along with it. So that makes sense in terms of those filters being maybe not as present as in an average person and then having that overstimulation. So now that we've talked about some of your research, you also talk in your book about certain tools and techniques that maybe the average person can use to replicate some of these brainwave states so that maybe the average person could go about having a psychic experience or become more psychic. So can we talk about I have a whole list here? I don't even know where to start. But can we can we talk about some of these tools and techniques that help to replicate or induce those brainwave states? Yeah, I'll leave it up to you to kind of to to talk about which one stands out the most. I have a bunch listed here, but. Yeah. And, you know, before we even get into the specifics of of different technologies or different approaches that can be helpful to kind of open the brain up, to help it be more flexible. I think I would offer also the idea that my current belief and this and I've heard this from every single psychic medium. I'll be curious what you think. Everybody that I've talked to, they've said everybody has these abilities. And it's like, yeah, sure, whatever. You can say that because you've you can talk to dead people, right? You know, so it's easy for you to say. Yeah, but but every single person I've interviewed has said that. And the more I explore this, the more convinced I am that that's true, that we all have this natural ability. But then the brain shuts off our able our ability to connect to some of that. And so the trick seems to be, well, how do we shift the brain? How do we create enough flexibility that we can start to move through that challenge that the brain presents to have access to this information again? And so, you know, we've talked about, well, we've actually talked about one part of the brain so far that that God spot back there. But so what we've identified is that we can use certain kinds of technology to essentially nudge the brain into the desired direction for enhanced psychic or mediumship abilities. And the first. I guess technology that stands out is it's pretty simple, it's called audio, visual entrainment, AVE. It's been around for a long time. In fact, I think I got my first set of AVE glasses. 20 years ago, 22 years ago. But essentially, they're these big glasses that have lights built into the eyeset, so there's four lights on each one. And then you have a headphones that you wear and some of the programs, they just jack right into your computer. Other ones are sort of a standalone little unit that it plugs into. And essentially, what it does is you pick a program, depending on what you're wanting to do. And the lights will then start to flicker on and off a certain number of times per second. And same with the tones in the ears, there's tones in the ears. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And a lot of people are going to be familiar with like binaural beats or isochronic tones that are used in different kinds of music. It's that idea, but applied to visual stimulation as well as auditory. And essentially, what happens is the brain starts to follow that frequency. So if you're pulsing the glasses at, let's say, six times per second. So it's going on and off six times a second. Your brain starts to produce more six cycle per second brainwaves. It starts to follow that pattern. Six cycles per second is theta. So if you're wanting to increase the amount of theta that you have to get into that subconscious state, that state where you're more flexible and open in your thinking, literally the glasses could drive the brain in that direction for you to help you start to access that state of consciousness. Now, once you're there, you still have to have some skill. You still have to learn how to navigate and how to ask the right questions and how to pay attention. But the glasses can sort of serve as a jumping off point to, you know, make the process a little more easy. So and in your book, you talk about a technique called the Gansfield technique, which I hadn't heard of. So I was fascinated by that. Is the Gansfield technique a similar form of audio visual entrainment as well, just a little bit different? Because that's that's both. I actually I got some red glasses after I read that chapter, because what was interesting to me is that my teacher of trance mediumship first time I studied with him, it was a week long, and he had us sitting in red light the entire week. And so I just found it interesting, this Gansfield technique, which maybe you can describe for us has to do with like red light and white noise. And yeah, red light and white noise. That would have been a good good name for the chapter. Red light and white noise. So Gansfield, it's a German word and it means whole field. And again, it's a technique that's been around for a long time and essentially involves putting on some sort of glasses or covering the eyes in some way. The original way that they did it was taking a ping pong ball, cutting it in half, taping the two halves of the ping pong balls over the eyes and then shining a red light onto your face. And so what it does is the ping pong balls sort of turn the field into just a just a red amorphous field. You can't see anything. Everything's just red. All you see is red. Now we can use the glasses that I was just describing. There's a setting on there that's called Gansfield, and you just put it on there and you can pick whatever color you want. And it will just do that for you. You don't have to do the whole ping pong ball thing. Or you like you found some red glasses, which, yeah, they're cool because they have a little red on the side. So they kind of block, you know, they block. Anyways, I'm doing my experiments, too. Yeah. Yeah. They look good, too. And so what happens is at the same time, you also put headphones on and listen to white noise. And everybody's going to be familiar with white noise, whether they know about it specifically or not, because, you know, we've all heard sound machines or applications for sleep where it's just kind of that background hissing sound, you know? I used to use that to get my son to fall asleep when he was a baby. Yeah, it's very soothing for most people. Yeah, it is soothing. And when you put it on headphones. So one of the things about white noise is white noise contains all of the frequencies that we can hear all at the same time, which is why it sounds like noise. It's all the frequencies happening all at the same time. And so you're listening to that. And then you've got this red field that's essentially blocking everything out except just this homogenous field of red. And so it's almost like the opposite of a sensory deprivation. Experience experience. So instead of taking away all of the sensory experience, we're kind of flooding the visual and auditory system with information that doesn't have any meaning in and of itself. And so just doing that seems to knock the brain out of its normal way of processing information. And so for a lot of people, it makes it much easier to all of a sudden start hearing or seeing or however, however they pick up their whatever their players are. But being able to sort of tap into that. And I think essentially what you're doing is sort of confusing the brain enough that it sort of stops trying to filter information the way it normally does. Oh, OK. Right. So you're sort of hacking, you know, you're hacking. Yeah, it's a brain hack. Brain hacks. Yeah. Yeah. Is there some something about the color red? Because I just found that interesting that, you know, you mentioned red and then my teacher had this something about the I guess the bandwidth of the color red. It's interesting. It is interesting. And I was just talking about this for a totally different reason yesterday. Red does seem to be the color that is most effective at increasing a specific brainwave, which we haven't talked about yet, but one called Gamma. Oh, OK. Right. And Gamma is this one, right? The fastest brainwaves. Gamma is the fastest one. Yeah. And so of all the brainwaves that seem relevant for psychic and mediumship work, Theta and Gamma are the two that come up over and over and over and over and over again. So it's possible that that is part of the reason why red seems to have a different effect than other colors. It's interesting because red tends to be more stimulating. A lot of people experience red is as a stimulating color. But that actually makes sense. Gamma is a fast brainwave. It is stimulating. And so but what we've what we've found is that, again, I kind of suggested this earlier. Everybody's a little bit different. And so if I took 10 people and we all did red. Half of them would be like, oh, that was amazing. I and half would go if it was OK. And for them, it might be green or it might be blue or it might be white. And so it's interesting, because what we've kind of figured out is that even though there are some general rules that seem to be consistent, there's always exceptions. And so it's important to experiment even within yourself, right, that if you're going to try these things, it's like, yeah, try red first, because it's probably the highest like the default or the go to. Yeah. Yeah. But if that doesn't kind of do it for you, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work. It might just mean you need a different color because colors are our frequencies as well. We're talking about frequencies. Red is a different wavelength than blue. Right. Or than green. And so, well, based on your brain, I don't know your brain. So maybe your brain needs a different wavelength in order to help it shift. And so it takes a little bit of experimentation. And again, you know, it's, you know, it's another reason I kind of like the AVE glasses, because you can pick any color you want to play around, right? You can play around with it. Yeah, totally. In fact, you can send one color to the right hemisphere and a different color to the left hemisphere. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. You talk in terms of being kind of more individualized. You also talk about that in terms of the noise, because you recommended this app, which I downloaded. That's a white noise app. But you can actually play with the frequencies in the white noise, meaning you can pull up the brown noise and or the red, or you can like you can make your own spectrum. So when I was doing that for myself, I did realize I think it was blue. I preferred it. I felt more soothed when I like pumped up that blue noise in terms of the white noise spectrum. So it's really interesting because you feel your energy shift. And when you were talking in your book about doing the Ganspel, the Ganspel technique with yourself, let me know if this is I feel like this is what you said. That you noticed the effect after you did it like you were driving to work after or something. And you and you notice like, oh, I feel I feel different. So it's not just that these techniques can shift in the moment, make you more intuitive in the moment. It's that it sounds like they can have a lasting effect. Is that correct? Is that your experience? Yeah, there's there's been again, there's it. It seems to vary depending on the individual. But and whether we're talking about the audio, visual entrainment or other technologies, it seems to be consistent that some people will have whatever experience they're going to have during the session, which is kind of what we expect. You've got the glasses on. You've got the noise on. You sit there for 15 minutes or 20 minutes. You expect that that's when stuff's going to happen. And it usually is. But there are a significant number of people where nothing really happens. And then later that day, later that night. They they all of a sudden realize, oh, wait a minute. My perception is different. I'm I'm seeing things differently. I'm thinking differently. Right. And in sort of a more open way. So there does seem to be this delayed effect for some people. And, you know, I don't know enough to explain that, to explain why that is. Yeah. That for some people, it's more immediate. And for other people, it's delayed. But again, it's a good thing to be aware of, because, you know, sometimes people will try something and they try it once and they go like, oh, nothing happened this. And it's like, well, hang in there. Sometimes the brain has to learn how to use what you're giving it. You're giving it new information. It has to figure out how to use it. So it might take repetition, might take different frequencies, might take you paying attention really carefully after the session. Right. And seeing how it goes. So you notice those subtleties? Well, one thing, one question I had that I was really so excited to ask you, I wanted to share an experience because with one of my teachers, I really felt strongly that when I was with him, I've studied with him in person, I've studied with him on Zoom. I felt that when I was in his presence with him, that I almost experienced some sort of a shift or a heightened sense of psychic ability just by being in his presence. And after reading your book, I thought of that, because my question for you is, is it possible when we're with someone else who has a higher than normal, you know, psychic ability that our brains could entrain to their brainwaves by being in the same room with them? And that just you know, because we hear about that in yoga, about how you are wanting to be in the same room as these gurus or spiritual teachers. And there's this transmission. And after I read your book, I'm like, oh, that all of a sudden makes sense. Right. Because are our brainwaves emanating from our being? Like, can they be picked up by someone in the room? Like, that's just a question. I've been dying to ask you your opinion on that. It's a great question. And there's there's several different little pieces that, you know, we'll see which direction we want to we want to focus on. But yes, so brainwaves don't just exist in your head. Anytime there's electrical activity, there's a magnetic field that accompanies it. So it's electromagnetic and electromagnetic field. And so literally, if you have the right equipment, you can measure brainwave activity outside of a person's skull. You can measure it out here. So we're not. So even from a very scientific perspective, our energy is not contained within our body. And in fact, the heart has a much larger electromagnetic field than the brain does. So you can measure the heart's field six feet away from a person. And so if you think about that for a moment, you know, what does that mean? If your field is six feet out and my field is six feet out and we happen to be in semi close proximity together. Well, our heart fields are literally interacting with each other. And so now and even even these fields that I'm talking about and I'm saying six feet or whatever. Well, that's based on the equipment we have now. Right. We have to measure things. You know, what we know is that things don't stop. It's not like your field at six feet goes, oh, I'm done. No, it keeps going forever. Infinite. Yeah. And so we know that our fields exist outside of ourselves. We know that our fields interact with each other. And again, this is science. This isn't even woo woo. Right. No. So where it starts to get woo woo is then when we start to try to figure out, like, well, what does that mean and how does what actually happens? And it's like, well, you know, we really don't know. But there does seem to be this thing that happens where when people are with a very strong teacher, a guru. It's different if you sit in a meditate, even if you sit in a meditation group at your local yoga studio and there's not a guru, but you have some experienced practitioners. It's different. Yeah. It feels different. You get into a different state of meditation than when you're at home by yourself. Yeah, that's so true. It's totally true. And so there has to be something to that. Right. And, you know, when I go and do an event, so I've been doing some workshops with Laurel and Jackson and, you know, we've got quite a few people in the room and a lot of people are psychic mediums at whatever level they're in. And we're spending the whole day talking about this and doing exercises. And and I swear, every time we do that, all of a sudden, my spidey senses get cranked up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like I have weird dreams and, you know, and weird synchronicity start happening and all. I'm not looking for it. I'm not even trying. I'm busy being a teacher. So it's like I'm not even really paying attention to those things, but they just automatically kind of and I think it is. It's a resonance. It's happening now. Yeah, that entrainment. Right. Like somehow maybe we can't measure it yet, but there's like an entrainment, maybe a brainwave entrainment happening or also heart field. Who knows? Or maybe both are both right. Or, you know, or even maybe some sort of like chakra entrainment that, you know, because, you know, chakras are frequencies as well. We just don't have the equipment to measure them. Right. The frequencies are too high for the equipment that we have at the moment. You know, at some point it will be possible to measure that, that, you know, we just need somebody to build a system that can measure frequencies that are going that fast. So actually, one of the projects that I'm working on right now is I'm working with a an engineer who builds EEG and heart rate variability equipment. And we're actually designing something to measure exactly what we're talking about is amazing. I love that. Yeah. So with, you know, either with two people or with groups of people. Yeah. To simultaneously measure everybody's heart rate variability or their brainwaves and to then start to see how are the brainwaves in the heart fields interact? How are they affecting each other? Yeah. In real time. And what we want to do is turn this into a biofeedback system so that you could have an entire room full of people hooked up. And and the whole room is getting feedback on what's happening with everybody so that you start to entrain to each other even quicker because you can see what's happening and where you fit in relation to the rest of the group. That's amazing. Yeah. I just envision, you know, when they say that groups of people meditate, that there's this, you know, field that goes out, that can affect crime rates in the city or, you know, this and that. And so it's just like maybe if we start to become more intentional about it, you know, and I think of because one of the things I want to ask you, too, is like, what's the point? What's the point of developing psychic ability? And I'll just share. I do want to know what you have to say about that. But I just share that one of the big points for me is like to because from what I've learned is that we're interconnected. And that's just so important. And at this time to acknowledge that. And I think if you can give someone the experience of that interconnection, I think it'll just change their lives forever, right? There's no going back. So in terms of the reason why you have such passion about this, can you talk a little bit about that in terms of like, why why are we doing this? Like, right. What's the what's the the point, the benefit of doing this in the first place? There are so many, but there are so many. And, you know, I can only speak for myself because everybody's going to have a different motivation or interest and where this work goes for them. But for me in my own exploration, I think initially it was, you know, sort of curiosity and, you know, wanting to see, can I do this? Is it possible that I can make this happen? And what I've noticed about myself is I'll I'll pick something, whatever it is, telekinesis or ESP or something, and I'll practice and I'll get good enough that I've convinced myself that that I can do it. And then I'm kind of done. And I'm like, OK, I don't I don't necessarily take it. I don't see how far I could go with it. Yeah, it's almost like I just want to see if I can really do it. And then once I've done enough, then I'm like, OK, moving on to something else. And so the reason I'm bringing this up is because I think for me, what's happened over time is that. The purpose behind this for me has been more about my spiritual development. And and so what I can learn about myself and how the universe works through these practices. So for me, and I think it's similar to what you were saying. So understanding that we are all connected and that the universe is way vaster than most of us could even imagine. And what does that mean? And what does that mean for for living on this planet, for interacting with others, for dying? What what is what does all of this mean? And how can I use this to sort of live a better life? Whatever that is. And so, you know, the magic tricks there. It's fun. It's interesting. It's it's clever. It's creative. But I think when you start to really dive into it more, there's a whole nother world that starts to open up that I think informs, you know, how you live your life and how you I think it does become a form of spirituality, even if. You know, even if some people don't think of it that way. I think that's what it is. You're connecting to something bigger. Yeah. And that's really what spirituality is, I think, is, you know, connecting to something bigger than yourself. Definitely. All right. Well, just a couple more questions, because just on that note, I just just curious if you have like, well, either a personal spiritual practice or a practice where you're doing something regularly to like develop. Your own intuition or psychic abilities. Now, those two things may interlap, I realize, because I know my spiritual practice is also like my intuitive practice. But what is it that you do either daily or regularly to kind of help you you know, retain your spiritual connection and also develop intuition and psychic ability? Yeah, I was smiling because, you know, it changes, you know, I kind of like I just said, I might get really into something for a while. And so that becomes part of my practice. And then I'm like, OK, all right, moving on. The things that I do consistently every morning, I do some Qigong. So I that's my kind of movement based energy practice that I do rather than yoga. I used to do yoga, but Qigong just is a better fit for me. So I always do, you know, 20 minutes of Qigong or something like that in the morning, followed by a seated meditation. I usually, which is very often sort of more of a focus practice. And I'll do some breathwork exercises. Usually do that. I pretty much do that every morning. I'll do an invocation. So sort of calling in all of my guides and helpers and whatnot. And so all of that is very consistent. And then adding on to that in terms of particular daily practices to enhance my own abilities. That varies. That depends on what I'm interested in. And so lately, what I've started working on a little bit more, this is probably my weakest area. But sort of talking to whatever my spirit guides or whatever you want to call them. And it's never been my strongest suit. And literally, it was just the other day that I was like, oh, wow, this is going to sound so basic. But I was like. I can just like have a conversation like you just have like a regular conversation, like, OK, like it's like so basic. Yeah. For some reason, just never it never made sense or it never clicked in my brain somehow. Yeah. And so I've been having a lot of fun with that of just every morning during my meditation practice of just kind of tuning in and just asking questions and trying to just sit and listen. And, you know, for subtle impressions and then trusting what I'm getting, well, trusting what I'm getting, but also learning to discern. You're like, well, what's my brain just making up stuff? Yeah, that's a question that I get a lot. How do we tell the difference between like because it does get a little confusing in there? Yeah. What's my voice? What's my guide's voice? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So that's kind of what I've been playing with lately. And, you know, now that the book I've been distracted because of all the preparations for the book coming out. Yeah. And so now that that's kind of done, I've got lots of plans for, you know, zapping my brain and other types of experiments to see, you know, what happens. But amazing. All right. And last question, if so, if there is one practice that you could recommend for someone who's who's wanting to become psychic or become more psychic, what would be that one practice that you would recommend? Meditation. Yes. Me, too. That's what I say. The last video I filmed was on meditation. But yeah, it's just OK. So OK, so with that, this is really is the last question, because people tend to be resistant to meditation or, you know, they find it so difficult in the beginning that they have like so much difficulty actually creating a habit of meditation. So do you have any suggestions over about how to get over that, you know, very difficult hump that most people experience in the beginning when they're trying to meditate? Of course. And not to add too much more to this interview, because there's a lot that could be said about, you know, I think the first thing is choosing a style of meditation that is most in alignment with what you're trying to accomplish. There's a lot of different types of meditation. There's a lot of ways to meditate. And so I think it's worth doing your homework and finding something that is a good match for you and what your goals are. And so first doing that and then setting really realistic expectations. So I feel like this is where people make a lot of mistakes early on, which is sort of assuming that they have to meditate for 20 or 30 or 40 minutes for it to be effective. And they can't do it or it's horrible or it makes them anxious. And so they stop when in reality, when I'm kind of coaching people, usually I suggest start with three minutes. Nice. You know, and it's like it's amazing how quickly people can develop. But it's like if you start with very low hanging fruit goals and then start expanding it from there. Right. You know, but also like working with your strengths and your weaknesses, I think. And so, you know, if there's somebody who closing their eyes and going inward makes them anxious. Well, let's pick a meditation style that involves your eyes open and some movement so that you feel grounded. There's ways to meditate that way. Or if you fall asleep all the time. OK, well, so how can we work with that? Right. So let's let's think about creating enough energy and enough activity in the meditation to keep you engaged and keep you alert and keep you focused so you don't just drift off. So, you know, really, again, that kind of idea of individualizing things a little bit for the particular person, because I think once you can do that, it's much easier for people to become invested and start putting in the time, which is what it really takes. Yeah, definitely. It's kind of what you're saying at the beginning is that you don't. It's one of those things where you don't always see the benefit right away. And so, you know, kind of like exercise, you have to just start making it a habit. I think the three minute thing is brilliant because most people could say that they'll sit for three minutes. Right. And so if you just start there and just build on that. So that's amazing advice. So just to close out, how can we obviously your book is available on Amazon, right? And how else can we keep in touch with you if you wanted to share your website or your social media? How can we how can we track you down? Yeah, you can track me down. Basically, because of the book, I kind of created a whole new presence, which which was sort of a hassle, but just to keep it as clean as possible. And so we're kind of using psychic mind science. So that's our website. Www.psychicmindscience.com. So all of our upcoming classes and information and resources, there's guided meditations and things on there. So that's the website. That's also our handle on social media. So Instagram, Facebook. I guess those are really the only two that are not on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok. But but Instagram, Facebook and YouTube. The handle is psychic mind science. Perfect. All right. I'll be sure to put all those links in the video description. So thank you so much, Jeff, for your work in the world. I so appreciate you. And thanks for being so generous with your time today. Of course. Thank you for having me. It was fun.