Decoding the Secrets to Lasting Business Relationships: A Candid Conversation with Bob Burg

People will do business with and refer business to those people they know and trust. And there's no faster, more powerful or more effective way to elicit those things toward you than by taking your focus, moving from that eye focus or me focus to that other focus. Welcome to super entrepreneurs podcast. I'm your host, Shahid Durrani. Today we have with us Bob Berg. Bob speaks with entrepreneurs and sales professionals throughout the world on how to build powerful business relationships, effectively communicating their value and cultivate endless referrals. Welcome to our show Bob. Thank you Shahid. It's so great to be with you. It's great to have you my friend. That's a very interesting topic when it comes to business. A lot of people have difficulty asking for referrals, but I'm sure that there's an art and I've interviewed someone in the past as well, that their frills are become very natural. Once you learn that art, can you speak about that a little bit? Sure. And I think it's a matter of having a system for doing so. So I personally define a system as the process of predictably achieving a goal based on a logical and specific set of how to principles. The key being predictability. If it's been proven that by doing a, you'll get the desired results of B, then all you need to do is a, and continue to do a, and eventually you'll get desired results of B. It's the same when asking for and attaining high quality referrals and introductions. We know they're important for a number of reasons. One, it's simply easier to set the appointment with a referred prospect. Based on borrowed influence. So rather than having to do all the, the grunt work that, you know, it was part of business, but you get to go right over above and right into the office because of someone else's influence that you're borrowing. With a referred prospect price is less of an issue. It doesn't mean it's a non issue or not an issue, but it's less of an issue again, because of borrowed influence and borrowed trust, this person already sees you as someone, um, who is a, a worthy professional. Thus, rather than trying to sell on low price, you can sell on high value. We all know that when you sell on low price, you're a commodity. When you sell on high value, you're a resource and you want to be positioned as a trust resource. The third benefit of a referral working with referral based prospects is that it's simply easier to complete the sale. This through borrowed trust or what we call vicarious experience. In other words, no, this person has never done business with you before, but someone who they know and trust has said, this is the only person you need to see. They're the person you want to work with. They'll take great care of you. They have your best interest at heart. They stand behind their product or service. The product or service is fantastic. Right? And then the other great benefit of a refer of working with referred prospects is they're already of the mindset. That's how you do business since that's how they met you. So in their mind, in their world, you reach, you meet your prospects through referral, you sell on high value rather than low price, you complete the sale and you are then referred to others. Once you learn that and can go through that boom. And now the two important parts is one getting over the fear because there's a fear of what of rejection. What if they don't want to refer me? If they don't, they don't. There's some people who are never going to refer anyone. There's some people who refer everyone. And then, and I'd say there's 80% in the middle who will refer and recommend you, but you've got to approach and ask the correct way. So one's getting over the fear of rejection, the fear of appearing desperate by asking for referrals. No, you won't. If you do it correctly, you'll appear and you'll be positioned as someone who understands the value they provide to others. Uh, so when you can get in, there's some other fears as well that are easy to get over once you really understand them, then it's a matter of asking the correct way, it's being able to create the environment for a referral, uh, by asking this person by at the end, using what I call the referral bridge, which is simply as more and more of my business is now through referrals and introductions. I find it helpful to partner with my friends and clients such as you. Can we take a few quick minutes and run past the names of some other people I might also be able to help. Now, the, the power in utilizing that referral bridge is first. When you say that as more and more of my business is now through referrals and introductions, again, you're cluing them into what you're going to ask, okay, and you're also coming from the frame that those are part of what you do. But if, if it's not right now, part of really a big part of your business, you don't want to say that because you don't want to fib, but you can say. As I'm in the process of expanding my referral business, I find it's helpful to partner with my friends and clients such as you partner is a very key word because you're giving them buy-in you're giving them part of this. And then to say, so again, as more and more of my business is through referrals and introductions, I find it helpful to partner with my clients and friends such as you. Now this part's key. Can we take a few quick minutes and run past the names of some other people I might also be able to help? So what you're saying here is you're making it very easy for them, but you're giving them the out. Can we take a few quick minutes? You're not going to take up a lot of time. It's a few quick minutes to run past it's fast language. It's quick language. It shows that you're going to a few other P who I might also be able to help. When you say might, what you're saying is I realized not everyone's going to be interested, so you never have to fear connecting me with someone and you looking bad, right? Because I keep trying to overwrite you're saying that some who might or might not be interested. And so at this point, this person's going to feel very comfortable and they're going to say, sure. Now they may say, they may reflexively say, I don't know if I know anyone or something, and that's fine. What you always want to do and not be defensive at all, because you always want them to feel very comfortable in the process and you want to feel comfortable in the process, you'd simply say, oh, that's okay. I'm actually going to give you a couple of very quick and easy ways to identify some people I might be able to serve. And if you do right, if not, that's okay as well, we can always revisit another time. Again, you always want to make it easy for them to escape, right? To say, no, I call it the law of the out or back door, right? By, by giving someone an escape hatch, they feel more comfortable with you and they have less need to utilize that. Now, the biggest thing though, is when you finally ask is to not say something like, who do you know? Who might, or do you know anyone who, because as the great sales trainer, Tom Hopkins said in his book, how to master the art of selling. When you ask a question like that, this person knows so many people, they know hundreds of people. So if you say, do you know anyone who, or who do you know, you've got a collage of hundreds of people dancing through that person. They can't identify anyone. And that's when they say too overwhelming. It's too overwhelming. Exactly. And this is where they say, I can't think of anyone, but right now, but if I do, I'll let you know. And that very rarely happens because out of sight, out of mind. So what you want to do is to, as Mr. Hopkins so wonderfully taught, and I totally credit him with this. And that is to gently funnel their world into small groups of people they can easily picture. So if you know that you're perspective or Dave, he's a member of his local rotary club. Okay. You might ask him, is there any, you don't say, is there anyone in rotary? It could still be too big, but is there anyone in your rotary club who you sit next to every week or who you're particularly good friends with or serve on a committee with? Now he can think of two or three names. Now you can ask if either of those people either might be interested in or open to, or however, whatever, depending upon what you sell or Mary, who sits on the board of directors of her local animal shelter. And you ask who serves on the board with you and she names five people. Okay. Now you can say, would any of those five? If you think of them individually, would any of those five, and now you can ask because now she can write. And so this is basically how we want to do it. We want to help them have small groups of people who they can easily picture in their minds, who would be the best perspective customer. So it's like you can micro niche it or niche it even referrals and also have the escape hatch for both sides. You're allowing them to have it, but you're also allowing on your side too, that exactly. So, yeah. So you feel more comfortable, right? It gets rid of those jitter bugs. It's important for both people in the process to feel very comfortable and to enjoy the process. Bob, if someone that is already in business and they were always uncomfortable with referral marketing and asking for referrals, even in a specialized way, is there some guidance you can share an entrepreneur that has never walked down this alley and what he could do to implement in the quickest way and build it from there? Yeah. What you need to do is start creating relationships with people who you meet. And that's really what I'm saying. Say if they have a database, right? They have customers. How could they start that conversation with past clients, for example? Past clients. Oh, okay. Because you call them and you introduce yourself to them and you let them know who you are, what you do, that you handle their account and how to, and you're making sure that they're enjoying the product or service and if they are, and you feel as though there's a real nice rapport there, you can always say as more and more, now you can go right into as more and more of our businesses now through referrals and introductions from our happy customers, such as you, right? Go right into that. But I would also say this. When you first contact someone who is not yet, who, who may be their original salesperson, it was two or three years ago. So there's absolutely no rapport at all. What you want to do is just restart the relationship. So again, you call them, but you can always do it if you can always do it through email and other ways, but I'm going to say, pick up that phone and call them if you possibly can. And because that's a stronger connection. Although again, you can do it other ways, but let's say you're calling and you reintroduce your, you introduce yourself to them and you find out how things are with the product or service. You of course answer any questions you can, but let's say things seem to be fine. Okay. What I would do at that point is now I would start building the relationship with them rather than even asking for referrals or asking for any connections. Again, I'm saying, if it's not, if you don't feel as though it's a strong enough connection, and so what I would do at that point is I would actually send a personalized handwritten thank you note through the mail to this person. There is nothing that has a greater effect or a video. You could, that also is a fine thing to do. It's not an either, or I think it's an, and I would probably start out the thank you note, but then I, but I would go to the video and, and again, you're going to connect with them on the various social media, you're going to, you're going to find ways to bring value to them over and above the business. And once you have that, that know and trust established, now you're at a point where you can talk business. Great Bob, speaking of value, you have seen ton of value creation strategies. Is there a clever one you have noticed that is really underused today? Something that entrepreneurs could jump on today? I'll say this sending a handwritten personalized thank you note is like magic, I'm telling you it is magic, but you, you gotta make it a habit. It's not something that you do once and expect instantaneous results, but you start doing that as part of, and it's amazing, especially because online, you know, with all the online connections, who's getting personalized, thank you. Very few. So you're the only one basically doing it and you will be amazed at the response that you get. But you got to be in it for the longterm. You've got to do it consistently and make that a part of your messaging. And some companies, they send out those handwritten notes for Christmas or other celebrations. And they do that as an ongoing marketing or creating that relationship longterm. Yeah. How effective is it though? If every company, not every company, but so many companies are doing that. In fact, I would say the least effective one is probably at holiday season. Because I received the same thing from everyone else. So many. Yeah, that's true. It becomes normal. You talk about putting others first, which I obviously love. Can you give some real life scenario where this approach was put to a test and was questioned or you didn't get the right feedback and is, did you find a solution, did you end up winning or creating a lasting relationship from it? Placing another person's interests first should never be confused with being a doormat or a martyr or a sacrificial. It's always, it's just a way of thinking of the other person, how you can add value to their life. I always, whenever I speak at sales conferences, one of the first things I'll say is nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet. Okay. They're going to buy from you because they believe that they will benefit, that they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so, which means the very best thing you can do for your business is to place your interests aside and focus on their interests. And, and that's really what we mean by putting the other person's interest first, because remember they're, they're doing business with you for their sake, not for yours, and it's the only way basically to do business with someone else in a way that is going to, to gain consistent and sustainable results. That doesn't mean everyone's always going to appreciate it, but that's the world is. That's what I mean. That's what I meant. If it wasn't appreciated and you turned it around, if there's any kind of a story like that, that you could share. Typically, the reason that happens is because you found a way to, to connect with what they value. Remember value, which can be defined as simply the relative worth or desirability of a thing. Right. Of something value is always in the eyes of the beholder. So a lot of times when people say to me, but I gave them great value and they didn't seem to appreciate it, obviously they didn't find it to be a value. Okay. So we've got to get to know that person, their needs, their wants, their desires, their problems and challenges, what will move them closer to happiness. In other words, discovering what they value. And that's what we need to give to them. And also Bob, when you do more for others, we should also remove the expectation as well, because then you're sending that energy with that message. Yeah. So I call it giving without attachment. Yes. Okay. And yeah, in other words, your sense of happiness and peace of mind is not dependent upon them doing it right. Exactly. Yeah, it is so much more powerful. The energy that goes with it, the other person senses it as well. So now everything is going digital. And obviously since COVID has become a lot more digital when it comes to networking for high producers or companies or individuals, do you have any recommendations, what they could do to connect better in a digital world? So we go back to a, for a moment to what has been my underlying premise over the last 35 years, from my very first book to all the, to my being in sales, everything, you know, and it always, to me comes down to this, all things being equal or close enough to equal, but all things being equal, people will do business with and refer business to those people they know and trust. And there's no faster, more powerful or more effective way to listen to those things toward you than by taking your focus, moving from that eye focus or me focus to that other folks. Okay. Remember all things being equal. It's not that people do business with and refer to those computers. They know and trust it's the person at the computer. Right. And so to me, it's very much the same, only with a different medium. And that is you before anything you do before anything you share before anything you post before anything you, what have you is simply ask yourself is what I, before you click send his, what I'm about to send or post or pin or tweet or X or whatever, is it. Likely to bring value to this person's life. And if it is, go ahead. If it's not rethinking, put yourself in their shoes before sending it. Exactly. Mixing profit and giving, um, how can some of the big players integrate real into their business without having an effect on the bottom line? So the premise that I'm hearing in the question is that if you give value, it's at your expense, if they're giving a very generous value, right? You've got to be profitable in your business. You're not, your business doesn't make a profit. You have a hobby. You don't have a business, right? To have a sustainable business, you need to make a very healthy profit. You giving could be around the emotional aspect of the consumer. Well, um, not the monetary value. So it's a combination. So let's look at this one. Let's say you have a, an accountant, okay. A book or an account. Okay. And this account you hire to do your taxes in this accountant saves you tons of money. You're paying that person a fee. Okay. And in exchange, they're saving you a lot of money, right? Or, and they're saving you time and they're providing you, they're giving you the peace of mind and security of knowing it was done correctly. But this accountant isn't doing it for free. This accountant is charging you a fee to do it. Now, both of you win, right? Because you're you, because of the time you save because of the, the, the money you save because of the peace of mind, you come away better off afterwards, but she also made a very healthy profit. So she came away better off afterwards. Both of you benefited and that's how it's supposed to be. But so her giving you great value didn't mean she didn't make a profit. She made a great profit, but you made more of a profit than what you spent. And she made a great profit because it was worth it to her to trade her time, money, or her time, her energy, her knowledge for this or the fee. Now there's one other thing. It's also in the experience you provide someone. So aside from just the intrinsic value, which is just based on what the product's supposed to do. Okay. It's also the excellence you bring in terms of your knowledge, but also in terms of how you make them feel about themselves, it's the consistency. So they know you're showing up the same way all the time. It's the attention to detail and attention to them as a human being, not just as a customer, it's the empathy you display to help make them much more comfortable with the entire process. It's the appreciation and gratitude that you show that helps them again, to feel good about themselves. Good. So with all those things, when we talk about giving, we're simply talking about adding immense value to another person. Okay. So that link though should never take away from your profit. In fact, that's the way you make a healthy profit by pleasing the marketplace. So that they want to exchange their money for your product service and everything else you bring to the table. So it's like heart to heart dealing and also providing good or excellent use value. They remember that relationship. Plus the referrals, obviously profitability will increase when you get more referrals because of the app. Yeah. Okay, Bob. Wonderful. It was great talking to you today, my friend. It was a pleasure speaking about this topic. I enjoy it. If you could please let us know what you feel your innermost superpower is that got you to this point in your life. I think it's a sense of empathy. I'm able to really put myself in a position of even if I don't understand exactly how someone feels. I understand they're feeling something and that this something is distressful to them and I'm able to communicate through what I say, yeah, but really just through being there. I'm able to communicate that I'm on their side, that I have their wellbeing at heart and I'm there to help them. Intuitive entrepreneurs are very powerful entrepreneurs. So it's great to hear that. Yeah. So thank you, Bob. Appreciate you. It was great having you on the show. Keep in touch. Once we go live, we'll send an email out. Appreciate you helping us promote it. And if there's anything else that you wanted to come back on for in the future, please let us know. Thank you, Shad. I appreciate you very much. My pleasure.